The Price of Success

I haven't been on here in a few days and while reading some of the comments I was interessed to know what would the people on here would perfer, their county playing "puke football" and for arguements sake winning the All-Ireland or playing good football (and actually using their feet) and not doing well in the Championship. I don't know which one I would perfer but I'm leaning towards option 2 for my own county but if I had been asked the same question before Cork won their All-Ierland last year I would most likely taken the All-Ireland at that point. Vote away!

Can a team consistently play "puke" football and make it to a final though? I'd like to think that my team would play well and get to a final...with maybe the odd "puke" game?

Yes Cari, they can!!!

Armagh and Tyrone did it.

The Dubs are much better than they were last year, but it is still a puke based affair. If everyone played like Donegal, then forget it.

I am not voting because I'd make a liar out of myself.

Well some people might disagree but I'm taking option two. Despite how much I'd like the royals to win the AI I also care for the sport of Gaelic Football as a whole. I'm pretty much grateful for any coverage of the games I get over here so spend a lot of times watching as a neutral so I don't want to be watching puke. If it was consistent puke I was watching when I first came across the game in 06/07 (I hadn't seen ulster teams at that point) I doubt I would've bothered with it if that was my first experience.

An example is the 2010 Leinster final. Although I was still glad we won I still wasn't too happy with how we did it and was in favour of offering Louth a replay (but that's a different story). Yes I want Meath to be successful but I also don't want them to be remembered for ruining the entertainment value of Gaelic Football as a whole. I want to be entertained by my team as well as seeing them being successful.

who would seriously gave up an all-ireland for your county playing nice football and going out in the qualifers.

For me its not so much to do with nice football as it is with football that isn't totally rotten in the extreme. There are teams who play far prettier stuff than us but I still wouldn't like donegal standard wether or not we were successful or crap. Sure as I've already said I'd take the All-Ireland and be glad of it but 100% of the enjoyment wouldn't be there.

I suppose it depend's on the county. If your a small enough county that has never won the all Ireland before like Tyrone and Armagh were before their success, then I could'nt blame them for playing a defensive based game, I also could'nt blame Dublin for basing their game around defense after some of the hiding's they took from Tyrone and Kerry and considering we have'nt won an All Ireland since 95 something different had to be tried.

I don't think any county in Ireland should feel the need to play the way Donegal have played this year no matter how big or small the county is, there is a difference between basing your game on tough defence and doing what Donegal have done.

It is just a phase.

I didn't find the stuff of Armagh and Tyrone that ugly in the first place. Maybe it was a novelty or something but it introduced high energy and 15 men able to play all over the pitch.

Dublin took it a step further last year and Donegal even further this year. Mayo played like the 2010 Dubs. All teams in year one of new management. That seems to indicate that this system is easy to implement (the huge physicality needed obviously ain't easy) and can bring a degree of success.

Jim McGuinness says they only lacked physicality against the Dubs. They lacked more than that, they didn't have that cuteness. Nobody accuses Kerry in 09 for being defensive, as they were in the final. why? because their game involved much more than that, it had a sophistication to it. Dublin this year (Donegal apart) the same. My argument falls down when it comes to Cork Vs Mayo. I am prepared to put that down to a perfect storm performance against a team having one eye on the semi. That said, after trying to play football and getting roasted, they changed things up and played the defensive stuff, credit to them it turned out ok.


The point is that that muck can get you so far. The Dubs realise it, Kerry know it. Tyrone and Armagh knew it but can no longer do it, Kildare know it and try to ride 2 horses at the same time, Cork have tried to be the antidote (and ended up just as ugly at times) and it is no surprise that 2 of these counties are contesting the final....

Sunday game was probably the worst game in living memory. Both Donegal and the Dubs gameplan is bad for football.. Cynacism is right at home in blue.
As for negative football if you actually bothered to look at previous results you can see that at their peak of so called puke football Armagh and Tyrone rarely scored less than 15 or 16 points per game.
In 2003 Tyrone scored 20 points on two occassions to beat Down in the Ulster final, in 2008 Down had to score 1-19 to beat Tyrone by 1 point in the Ulster championship hardly puke.
As for my county we either play crap not puke (Cork this year, most of this season and to many other years in the past) or football to remember. I would want it to stay that way

I can't honestly remember a game that was worse than Dub V Donegal, that makes what was called puke from Tyrone and Armagh look like some of the best ever played by comparison. Defensive is one thing but that was ridiculous. Hopefully having a few games like that every year won't become the norm, and I don't think it will, although in some places I think there's been a wee bit of an over-reation- on hoganstand for example some people were calling for mass rule changes, changing pitch sizes, doing away with handpasses and changing to 13 a side e.t.c.

Ar aghaidh le cheile wrote:Sunday game was probably the worst game in living memory. Both Donegal and the Dubs gameplan is bad for football.. Cynacism is right at home in blue.
As for negative football if you actually bothered to look at previous results you can see that at their peak of so called puke football Armagh and Tyrone rarely scored less than 15 or 16 points per game.
In 2003 Tyrone scored 20 points on two occassions to beat Down in the Ulster final, in 2008 Down had to score 1-19 to beat Tyrone by 1 point in the Ulster championship hardly puke.
As for my county we either play crap not puke (Cork this year, most of this season and to many other years in the past) or football to remember. I would want it to stay that way

Ok so tell me how may point's Dublin kicked from play against Tyrone??? The reason the game was so bad was because of Donegal. Yes Dublin were pretty poor but they tried to play football they just could'nt. Cynacism??? dont make me laugh, in Kerry that's called cuteness, up north that's called the norm, but when we do it it's cynacism.

Anyway Down started all this in 1960 All Ireland final. Playing possession/handpass football against Kerry

Ar Aghaigh,
You cant compare Dublin and Donegal. That makes no sense. If Kerry were up against Donegal last Sunday you would have had the same sort of match. Kerry might have won by more but it would have been awful to watch.
I think Dublin play ok football. I dont see them as an all out defensive team. Jim McGuinness is no tactical genius either.

He beat a fading tyrone this tear, derry less their 2 best players with help from the referee, Kildare BECAURE of the referee and tactically, they were inept last sunday when it mattered......................

John Cregan wrote:Ar Aghaigh,
You cant compare Dublin and Donegal. That makes no sense. If Kerry were up against Donegal last Sunday you would have had the same sort of match. Kerry might have won by more but it would have been awful to watch.
I think Dublin play ok football. I dont see them as an all out defensive team. Jim McGuinness is no tactical genius either.

He beat a fading tyrone this tear, derry less their 2 best players with help from the referee, Kildare BECAURE of the referee and tactically, they were inept last sunday when it mattered......................

but they were 10 mins off an all-ireland final first in 19 years it realy dosent matter how or who they beat they got farther than most none of the other quarter finalists would have beat them.

Patrick,

Limerick were also in their first AIQF ever. That doesn't make them a great team.

Tyrone Donegal would have been 50 50
Cork would have beaten them
Kildare were better than them but lost because of poor officiating.

We are building up Jim McGuinness and Donegal into something they are not. If they get to an AI semi next year then maybe we can say they have progressed, but at the moment they are not worthy of such praise.......in fact id be amazed if McGuinness is not criticised in his own county for what they produced last sunday........................Donegal is a big county, they are not "divided", there is no hurling so they should always be a top county................

but its been a successful year for donegal and its due to mc guinness ulster champions and ai semi finalists not bad for 1st year you have to build mc guinness up for that but i do agree you judge them by their next campaign.

playing great to watch football would be every teams target but not every county has the talent and they will play in a way thay can win.

winning sam or liam and bringing the trophy to the people of that county was what i thought gaa was all about weather its a pretty or an ugly display on the pitch the delight on the faces when the team returened with the trophy was the main memory all this about id rather see my team play well and lose is lies to be honest no one likes losing playing well or not the ones who voted for option 2 wouldnt say that if they were winning ugly.

Generally it takes two teams to make a bad game, Dublin contributed to this but Donegal were far worse.

Patrick, I voted for option 2 because it's the closest to my opinion. If Meath were winning ugly would I be happy? Of course I would, I'd be ecstatic they were winning and I'd enjoy the moment. It does not however mean that I'd excuse the performance on the park afterward, I'd be happy with the success but that dosen't mean that they won't be in for criticism.

I'd have the same opinion right now if I supported Donegal. I would not be happy that we'd have to consistently produce crap to win and wouldn't be particularly confident of continuing to have success in the future if they kept up that muck.

but thats not the options its success and bad football or no success and good football you will always have your opinion either way same could be said for managers and players when your winning everything is fine its only when you lose is when the problems start.

if donegal had of won sam mc guinness would have been described as the best thing to happen donegal and their fans would be talking up a great final even though it probably be just like sunday when your winning nothing else maters really.

dublfcynwa wrote:

Ar aghaidh le cheile wrote:Sunday game was probably the worst game in living memory. Both Donegal and the Dubs gameplan is bad for football.. Cynacism is right at home in blue.
As for negative football if you actually bothered to look at previous results you can see that at their peak of so called puke football Armagh and Tyrone rarely scored less than 15 or 16 points per game.
In 2003 Tyrone scored 20 points on two occassions to beat Down in the Ulster final, in 2008 Down had to score 1-19 to beat Tyrone by 1 point in the Ulster championship hardly puke.
As for my county we either play crap not puke (Cork this year, most of this season and to many other years in the past) or football to remember. I would want it to stay that way

Ok so tell me how may point's Dublin kicked from play against Tyrone??? The reason the game was so bad was because of Donegal. Yes Dublin were pretty poor but they tried to play football they just could'nt. Cynacism??? dont make me laugh, in Kerry that's called cuteness, up north that's called the norm, but when we do it it's cynacism.

The bad game on sunday was a result of both teams tactics. While Donegal appeared to be the more negative the Dubs were not positive. Dublins half backs were not encouraged to be positive while for long periods the Dubs full back line were all engaged in marking one player. The Dubs foul count in the Tyrone game was almost double that of Tyrone. The foul was used cynacally again and again. The Dubs are not on their own in this respect but it is a joke when panellists say that the Dubs like to play champagne football.

patrick91 wrote:when your winning nothing else maters really.

Not Really, when we won Leinster against Louth last year and going into the QF's I wasn't 100% happy with it, and I wasn't the only one. If it were up to me I'd have a replay. If Donegal won Sam like Sunday's match I think there'd be a huge and jubilant recpetion for them back home as they paraded the cup and everyone involved in the county will be delighted. Wether or not everyone would be talking it up as a great final is, I think at least, a different matter. That's my point Patrick, of course I wouldn't mind winning ugly, but there's that and what happened on Sunday. I'd still take the win and be happy with it but I wouldn't say it was a great game. But it dosen't mean I'd say I wished we hadn't won because it was total Poopie to watch.