Celtic Back in Europe!!!!!

Not a joke either!!

Celtic reinstated to Europa League, subject to appeal by Swiss side FC Sion who are thrown out

More to follow!

Good for Scottish football.

They didn't deserve to go through on their performances but congrats to them.

Thomond wrote:They didn't deserve to go through on their performances but congrats to them.

What is there to congratulate exactly?

I'm surprised (well not really given the money involved) that they didn't turn it down.

That would be the honourable thing to do but it seems there is no honour in football anymore

This hides the failures of Scottish football,I heard that over the past 5 years,they have dropped from 10th to 17th and it's looking like they will drop.

Congrats was the wrong word to use,they should make the most of their lucky opportunity.

Looking at their group I'd say they'll be lucky to get 4 points.

Thomond wrote:This hides the failures of Scottish football,I heard that over the past 5 years,they have dropped from 10th to 17th and it's looking like they will drop.

Congrats was the wrong word to use,they should make the most of their lucky opportunity.

I don't deny that Sion deserved to be expelled but to reinstate Celtic due to a technicality is crazy as they couldn't beat a team of Tailor's dummies and frankly don't deserve to be anywhere near European Football.
As for the league, the SPL is already ranked a lowly 17th, dropping to 28th next year. Can't ever see a team from this country ever qualifying for CL again or even the tinpot Europa League in the future ( and no, User Name, there is no direct entry to the Champions League next year, only leagues ranked 1-12 get direct entry)

Don't deserve to be there and shouldn't be there. It's a shame that a once great club of European football has resorted to calling for others to be disqualified in order to gain entry into Europe.

By all accounts Sion have a good case and are pretty confident of winning the appeal.

What a load of garbage, Celtic where poor at Celtic Park against Sion but where missing three vital players, Kayal, Izaguirre and Hooper, Sion played FIVE ineligible players in the tie, Celtic where beaten by a team who broke the rules to gain an advantage over Celtic, why anyone can't accept Celtic deserve their re-instatement is beyond comprehension, why should Celtic be punished for a team cheating them, personally I'd rather play them in a 1 off game at a neutral venue without their banned players, theres a good reason why they choose to play those banned players though, they didn't think they'd qualify without them

Curious thing for me gaffer is why UEFA apparently approved the players to play before the game, which is what the Sion chairman is saying?

They must be so proud.

Go Celtic!
Go Scotland!

It's not a rubbish league after all

Does it really matter? I reckon being allowed in again just goes further to making the SPL look like some joke of a league (don't go there Supie). But more power to them and if they do well it'll do us all good. If they don't it doesn't make a difference. Looking forward to reading all the (non 606v2) forums when they come alight about how Celtic lost the league because they were in Europe. And giving them the same reply they gave us "tough Holly Wilaboobie"

Holly Wilaboobie really? admins have got a childs sense of humour

Trott apparently Uefa didn't want to get involved because it was the Swiss FA who made the ban, it was only when the Swiss FA went over Uefa's head and went to FIFA that they had to get involved

Electric Demon, fair play on your sarcastic tone, if your club made the Play-Off's and the team who beat you field ineligble players would you not expect to be re-instated? or would you happily accept the defeat knowing the team who beat you did so with players who shouldn't have played

Ah right cheers for clearing that up. I agree with what you're saying with regards to them being re-instated. I think any club in the same psoition woulddo the same. I just think it's massively disappointing for a team like Celtic to have to resort to this instead of qualifying off of their own merit and results.

Seeing the group you have I don't fancy your chances much I'm afraid.

One of the banned players who scored two goals in the tie was on trial at Celtic last year, we couldn't afford his £40,000 per week wage demands, Sion could pay him it, I don't quite get where people think we should just have beaten Sion from, maybe if they didn't play their banned players, some of whom earn far more than our regulars, we might have qualified comfortably, people saw how untisy we where in the first leg without 3/4 first choice picks, it would have been interesting to see Sion without theirs

If Celtic had any decency they'd withdraw, however I will take pleasure watching them get hammered

Why should they withdraw, what stupid comment to make, if Aberdeen are drawn against Dundee Utd in the Scottish Cup and Aberdeen field banned players who beat United, would you expect or want Dundee United to pull out if they where re-instates, simply because they couldn't beat a team who resorted to cheating?

Pull Out? Beyond Stupid!

We need Scottish teams to be playing in Europe, i hope Celtic take their chance as it will do us all good.

I'm not so sure we'll do much, its the group of death, to be honest, I'd rather have a one-off match with Sion in a neutral venue without their banned players, I just don't believe any team should be punished if they're the victims of cheating

the-gaffer wrote:Why should they withdraw, what stupid comment to make, if Aberdeen are drawn against Dundee Utd in the Scottish Cup and Aberdeen field banned players who beat United, would you expect or want Dundee United to pull out if they where re-instates, simply because they couldn't beat a team who resorted to cheating?

Pull Out? Beyond Stupid!

The fielding of ineligable players is almost irrelevant. Sion could have had 11 tailors dummies in there and Celtic still couldn't have won.
Celtic (and Rangers for that matter) have stunk the place out so badly in Europe over the last couple of years that they don't deserve to gain entry to qualification, let alone any tournament proper and Celtic ought to be embarassed to be there.
It would probably ironically be better for the coefficient to allow other leagues to deteriorate rather than have any Scottish teams in there to embarass themselves again by getting humped every fortnight.
They might win one match, but they are pretty much guaranteed to finish bottom of that mini league. Pull out, work on tactics, technique, defence, passing, sort out the laughable fitness and learn to play european football and try and qualify properly next year.

I heard that the transfer ban was only imposed by the Swiss FA and not sanctioned by UEFA. Only after the fact did the Swiss FA ask UEFA to get involved.

Is this correct?

The Swiss FA would be back by UEFA, it's the same as any FA ban, it would be backed by UEFA.

I'm with Gaffer (Obviously as a Celtic Fan).

I'm glad we are back in. I am man enough to admit we don't deserve to be on the basis of our performances but at the end of the day they broke the rules and so should pay the price for doing so. To say that Celtic should do the honourable and decent thing and withdraw is ludicrous.

Realist, you're perhaps going a little overboard there. 11 Tailors Dummies? I know you hate the Old Firm, but you need to take the blinkers off slightly.

It's a tough group and I doubt we'll do anything against that quality of opposition.

we shouldn;t withdraw but well get tonked by any half decent side we play.

This is the worst celtic side since the brady and macari era.

realist I take it 'tailors dummies' is your phrase of the week, you must have liked it when yo heard Hugh Keevans say it, fielding ineligible players doesn't count? What a moronic thing to say, if it where so simple why wouldn't Sion player their eligible players and save themselves the trouble, your petty hatred and over the top bias makes you anything but a 'realist' and your last post makes that obvious.

I notice thay you as well as Demon have taken to ignoring questions on what you'd want/expect for your own teams if it happened on your level, hardly surprising.

Gaffer, never even heard of Hugh Keevans, who is he? The term Tailors Dummies is a well known part of the venacular, so just because someone else has said it, doesn't mean I've ripped it off. More likely two people accurately describing a laughable performance.
The crux of the comparison was that Celtic were so bad, that even if Sion had played other legitimate players instead of those deemed eligible they probably still would have lost.

As for my own team, well it wasn't so much to do with Celtic being hard done by by Sion fielding ineligible players, that wasn't really the point. The point was that Celtic (and Rangers) are so bad now that they don't deserve to be in Europe, and they should be very very embarassed to take that place in Europe ahead of undoubted further humiliation. Celtic were undone more by their own ineptitude rather than the "magnificence" of Sions ineligible players. If my team performed as badly as Celtic did, I'd be ashamed of them if they thought they argued so vehemently that they'd been hard done by to take a place in Europe. I'd be happy for them to forfeit if they'd performed to a similar stinking level of performance.

Just to reiterate, I'm not completely against Scottish football or The Old Firm, what I am against is people who claim it is better than it is, that the league is of a higher standard than it is and that Celtic/Rangers somehow deserve European passage due to very ancient history and the misconception that they are big teams. I think it can only be a good thing that future years will see no SCottish teams in Europe, as it might force people to look more closely at the reasons behind their dismal failure.
Pleasantly though and rather refreshingly for fans of the usually over defensive OF, I've seen a lot of posts from people who have their feet on the ground and concede quite rightly that the SPL and Old Firm are pretty reeking in a European context, if only the rest of the rose tinted spectacle wearer would see that.

To be honest Realist, I haven't seen anyone on this forum wearing rose tinted spectacles with regards to our European performances.

They are shocking. That goes for both sides of the Old Firm. It is a simple fact.

But to say that in future years it can only be a good thing to see no Scottish participation in Europe is unbelievably naive. I understand the point you are trying to make when you say it. If there was no European Qualification then it would force people to look for the reasons why and try to remedy them. However; if you have no European participation, how can you ever hope to raise the coefficient to a sufficient level to get BACK in to Europe once the changes have been made.

This is going to be a long process. There is no quick fix for the Old Firm or SPL. I think it is imperative that there is Scottish participation in Europe every year. The thing that needs to change is peoples perceptions/expectations. The Old Firm are not Champions League standard. They are barely Europa League standard, but that is the level they should be aiming for.

I think it will need a total "grass roots" evaluation and change of attitude in Scotland. I've given my personal opinions on some of the things I think need to be changed on another thread that I know you have read.

Warrior, there were plenty of said spectacle wearers prior to Rangers V Malmo who were already booking their tickets for the next round and also plenty prior to Rangers V Maribor fixture who thought they'd be a pushover. That's where the real naivity is:-
Dismissing these teams without realising that they were much better than they thought and their own team was far worse than they cared to admit.

I do however think that attitudes are changing amongst support and a greater degree of realism is now a little bit more evident.

I think you have missed my point though, obviously being absent from European competition can't help the coefficient,, but being in Europe isn't doing it much good either.
There is also the question of not only changing the way they play, but they have to come up with a way to increase their competitiveness and ability to attract player without the carrot of Europe and the lack of revenue which will not be coming their way for the foreseeable future.

An extended absence might convince those in the upper echelons of decision making that this years results were no fluke and that root and branch reform is required.
One thing that was obvious during the games of Hearts, Celtic and Rangers in qualification was the real lack of fitness and general conditioning. There is no excuse for this as it doesn't cost anything. It still seems that those in charge of teams think in the "British Leyland" way of "that'll do" when it obviously will not.

I've read your opinions on what needs to be done and if I recall I think I agree with them on the whole. Certainly summer football is a good idea (if it was you who suggested that) I think someone else suggested a North Atlantic league but that will never happen and I never thought it would be a good idea anyway.
I'd be all in favour of an embargo on the signing of players from clubs in the same division. Asset stripping clubs of their best players only takes competitiveness away from an already poor league.

I'd be all in favour of an embargo on the signing of players from clubs in the same division. Asset stripping clubs of their best players only takes competitiveness away from an already poor league.

Teams would just sort an agreement out with another club from a different division signs the player and then loans it to the club that wanted him before selling them the next year.

What ridiculous idea, not the first time you've said it, further proof you're so far gone from reality that its laughable, clubs like Dundee Utd would find it near on impossible to lure any talent to the club if there was no chance Scottish boys could leave them to join their boyhood heros, regardless whether you think those type of players lack ambition or not, stupid idea, also back to Sion (the actual topic), who are you to say Celtic wouldn't have beaten them, I doubt you actually saw the 180 minutes of football or know enough about Sion to make that judgement, now I've said this already but you ignored it, I've not got a clue whether you're at the wind up, your hatred clouds your judgement or you just don't get it, I'll say it again for you....

Celtic had the Sion striker on trial last year, we could not afford his wage demands, Sion offered him 40 grand a week, said striker scored two goals against Celtic, two goals that knocked Celtic out the competition.

Celtic in the home leg where without Hooper, Kayal, Kelvin Wilson and Izaguirre, it was obvious Celtic aren't as effective without their best striker, best midfielder, best center half and Scotlands Player Of The Year, four big losses, so how you can say Sion would be just as effective without their (banned) players without any knowledge of it beggers belief and stinks of pure and simple petty hatred and unbelievable bias, you come across as many things my friend but 'real' is unfortunately most certainly not one of them.

I'm all for a differing of opinions and different prespectives but it's simply not possible to have a positive debate with someone who is so one dimenshined.

Gaffer, take of your Old Firm hat for a minute and have a wee think.

Rangers and Celtic stink in Europe for one main reason. An uncompetitive league (coupled with a lack of income) as we've seen how they struggle against better opposition. (please don't say it's down to TV money alone because I don't think the likes of Maribor or Artmedia Bratislava get millions in TV revenue and they were still too good for the OF)

Now in any activity in order to get better you have to play regularly against better opposition. Celtic/Rangers obviously realise this as talk of joining the English Leagues or forming a North Atlantic league frequently crops up (despite the fact no one would want them).
However the OF are partly responsible for the poor standard of the league due to them signing the best available talent from the league, hence making their teams stronger and the other teams weaker, keeping the lack of competitiveness across the league low. If they truly wanted a more competitive league and to improve as teams then they would be better agreeing not to sign players from the same division.
Whether or not you think it's iimpracticle or would upset a few players who happen to be OF fans is irrelevant. It couldn't do anything but strengthen the league.

To suggest that teams like Dundee Utd and Aberdeen can only sign players because it is a stepping stone to joining the OF is totally unfounded and presumtious to say the least. Neither you or I know which players do or do not support the OF.
Clubs like Dundee Utd develop most of their talent themselves rather than buy them in and traditionally they were often sold to the OF to warm their benches. Perhaps the OF could invest more of their money in youth development rather than paying the wages of a 41 year old hasbeen or mercenaries like Diouf.
Obviously the OF aren't that much of a pull anymore if people like Goodwillie give them the middle finger to join a team that is always going to be fighting relegation in the EPL.

If you want to improve the league you might have to make some harsh decisions, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Using the boy hood idols is a bit of a flimsy excuse for not doing it.

I'm more than happy to slap down your ridiculous notion about a senile notion to stop clubs signing players from teams in teams in the same division, make a thread about it, this thread is about Celtic rightfully given a European reprieve

The only point you chose to make about Europe is totally moot, you entire repotire is on what I might use as an excuse (money) which if we're talking about Artmedia Brataslava wasn't about money, I can't speak for Rangers against Marabor as I didn't watch the games, Artmedia was a one off fluke result, it was born from over confidence bad preperation and some lousy performances on the night, although Celtic failed to qualify they did at least show that they could destroy Artmedia by winning the return 4-0.

Celtic in the next three seasons qualified for the Champions League and made the last 16 twicw, both times being knocked out by the eventual winners, in both those seasons Celtic had less impressive team than the season Brataslava gave them a humiliating result, the fact you're even using that freak result as some kind of proof of point only goes show how desperate your argument has become.

The money Sion have may not be an issue however we will never know because Sion chose play ineligible players instead of playing within the rules by fielding eligible players

And herein lies the problem. Many fans still see these results as freak results.
Until they see that these teams are their actual competition and not just some inconvenience that will be easily swatted aside then a lot of fans will continue to kid themselves that the OF are big teams who still have European pedigree. Teams will be delighted to draw them in qualifying next year.
The reprieve for Celtic is papering over gigantic cracks and unless big changes are made it is only going to get much much worse, especially as no money will be coming in.

super_realist wrote:And herein lies the problem. Many fans still see these results as freak results.
Until they see that these teams are their actual competition and not just some inconvenience that will be easily swatted aside then a lot of fans will continue to kid themselves that the OF are big teams who still have European pedigree. Teams will be delighted to draw them in qualifying next year.
The reprieve for Celtic is papering over some very thin cracks and unless big changes are made it is only going to get much much worse, especially as no money will be coming in.

Sorry Realist but he's right. This example is a little redundant.

They thrashed us in the first leg, we thrashed them in the second. If they had thrashed us in the first and then we had to sneak a win in the second then I could maybe buy your thinking. We had a bad game in the first leg. They had a bad game in the second.

Celtic deserve to be in Europe on the basis that their opponents broke the rules. We lost the games against them. You can't possibly know that if they fielded a team without the ineligible players that they still would have won the game. We will never know.

Now I've conceded the point that we are not Champions League Quality and that we are barely Europa League quality so you can't claim I'm one of the blinkered Celtic fans. But you have to realise that the money aspect is a valid reason. Even Championship teams can out bid and offer more money for players than the Old Firm. Teams on the continent (I'm thinking specifically Portugal etc) can secure the services of youngsters from the likes of South America. Celtic and Rangers never will. There is the work permit rule for youngsters too. A Man Utd, Arsenal could appeal on the grounds of potential. If we appeal on the grounds of potential then they come back with "If they were that good then why isn't a Man Utd, Chelsea etc buying them?".

I'm not looking for excuses here, but I would say that these are valid reasons. They are SMALL parts of a massive problem.

You just seem far too quick to dismiss something that an Old Firm fan says as being blinkered.

Warrior, I get the point you are making but are you really suggesting that Rangers are poorer than Malmo or Maribor and that they can't compete with the financial clout of these teams? They just aren't good enough.
Money is a part of it, but not understanding European football is more important. For years they've had enough money and have managed to buy enough players of sufficient quality to ensure passage against teams like that despite playing in the "scottish" way.
Now that they face zero European money coming in in the foreseeable future they are going to have to change the way in which they play and prepare. Continuing to plunder teams from the same division isn't going to improve the situation for them as they will still play in the same way.

I'm not sure why anyone sees it as a surprise that Championship teams can outbid the OF. I'd much rather play in a team where any one of 10-12 teams could win the league, you play at nice stadiums every week and in front of big crowds. What's not to like about that? Certainly better than playing at the likes of East End Park or St Mirren in front of a few thousand people every fortnight.

If Scottish football is going to halt it's apparent terminal decline then every idea needs to be considered and not dismissed out of hand.

You say that it's not a surprise that Championship teams can outbid us because players would prefer to go there. That doesn't add up. The fact they get to play at better stadiums would mean they can attract better players, not out bid us for them. Out bidding is PURELY a financial thing.

I actually do think that Malmo and Maribor may be more financially stable, because for years the Old Firm clubs have been living beyond their means. We've seen both clubs recently stop splashing the cash because they can't afford it. Rangers are currently having problems with HMRC. I do think that it is entirely possible that these teams are in a better financial position than we are.

You're at it again Realist, I've not came across one Celtic fan who thinks recent European results are a freak result, the Artmedia result was though and as that's the example you chose to use I told you what any realist should already know