Walker Cup

I noted a verbal plug during the coverage of the Women's British Open, but can now see from the listings that the BBC are broadcasting action from the Walker Cup next weekend.

Pardon my ignorance, but do the Beeb normally cover the Walker Cup?

Otherwise, any views / learned commentary about this event?

Sky
Yes they have covered it quite well in recent years. They seem to get pretty decent crowds as well.

Very poor coverage leading into the Solhiem Cup this year. Sad times for European Ladies golf. Anyone know if it is on the telly.

Shame really the Solheim was something i always enjoyed watching as it showed the difference between the ladies tours and find their is so much more to be learned from the womens game than the mens, + mavette would enjoy watching, sadly doesn't seem to look like theirs goign to be any televised coverage

??

Solheim cup is on Sky. Starts at 7am on the 23rd.

must've missed the ad;s for that will watch with vested interest

Jas
Try to get Mavette to a live ladies event.
Even things like the ladies County Championship will let her see where she is and where she has to go to.

Doon that's the plan, we have a ladies county event on next week at a course nearby, going to take her along for a day see what she thinks

Royal Aberdeen is a fantastic old style links course. I'm sure the US players will love it. Early reports in the local press say they do. Just hope some of the character comes across in the coverage.

Although the US team is very strong the GB&I team must have a chance.

The Solheim Cup has always been shown live on Sky - that's the reason I subscribed in the first place back in 1990 for the first one. Somehow don't think Europe have a cat in hell's chance this year.

Agree with you ther LP
Perhaps that is why it is so low on the radar.

Scottie.
Heard some mumblings that it may be considered as a new Open course, with Turnberry being dropped from the rota for a regular tour European Open [5th major]. Two in Ayrshire is a bit greedy
Is Royal Aberdeen that good?

Shame they didn't just add another course to the rota and have fewer Open's at the dramaless and drab Old Course. (Mac, I'm not slagging off the course to wind you up, it just doesn't provide enough drama and holds the Open too frequently for a course of it's poor standard and it's not a good spectator venue either, it's like holding the FA Cup final at Preston because of the history)
I'd like to see a more equitable spread geographically. Obviously NI has been mentioned although as yet the infrastructure isn't up to it. Wales perhaps, or is the situation the same?

I see it has good coverage on the cooncil telly.
Well done the BBC.
Must be a bit wild and wooly up in Aberdeen, could be our only chance of a win.

Royal Aberdeen is a fantastic course. Just not sure it is long enough to hold an open. More a thinkers course on every shot.

Doon, its not wild and wooly every day in aberdeen

Weather forecast aint that wild this weekend, although may be a bit breezy on Sunday.

Sand,

I agree Royal aberdeen is not a very long course by today's standards, but it is a lot longer than it used to be.

On a clam day top players will find it plays short just like most links courses (e.g. St Andrews), but whichever 9 is into the wind will be a real challange.

The fairways have been narrowed and the natural features on many of the holes stops players bonging the driver all day, so many of the holes play longer then the card.

ScottieD18 wrote:Sand,

I agree Royal aberdeen is not a very long course by today's standards, but it is a lot longer than it used to be.

On a clam day top players will find it plays short just like most links courses (e.g. St Andrews), but whichever 9 is into the wind will be a real challange.

The fairways have been narrowed and the natural features on many of the holes stops players bonging the driver all day, so many of the holes play longer then the card.

True agree with all that, just meant that I dont think it would ever been seen as long enough for an open.

The Walker Cup team were at Carnoustie on Wednesday for some practice. Was great walking round a few holes watching them play before going out myself. I heard that 3 or 4 of them shot 77 (it was blowing a hoolie!!), guess my 85 off the same tees doesn't look so bad now

GB&I up 3-1 after morning's play according to the R&A site.
Don't see any sign of live TV coverage in the US. Disappointing.

Coverage by BBC okay. So far cameras mainly on the back 9 with a few shots from 8 and 9.

Not cold, but breezy and showers. Afternoon matches in the balance. Back nine playing tough so US could close the gap or GB&I couldd build up an healthy lead.

I guess the weather is helping the home team. Forecast for Sunday is dry but wind picking up.

Will we ever get to the bottom of 'the controversy' though? Methinks there are a few tight lips in grippie Aberdeen tonight.

what controversy?

Nay Bother wrote:what controversy?

One of the GB&I players had his brother caddying for him this morning, he's a PGA pro. They checked to see if this was OK and all seemed OK, on closer inspection of the small print in the rules, turns out having a pro caddy is not allowed. All parties were consulted after this came to light, everyone agreed that no advantage had been gained and the result of his match would stand.

Common sense prevailed but he now has to find a new caddy for tomorrow. Fancy the job?

Turned out one of the english players (Jack? Senior) had his brother caddieing for him. No probs with that. Unfortunately, it transpired he is also a professional.

Senior claimed he had been told by 'others' this was ok (really, how could it be?) and indeed, Nigel Edwards (GB&I captain) who knew Senior's bro was a professional also claimed he had been told it was ok (really, truthfully, how could anyone in their right mind ever think it could ever be?). Question is, who told 'em? Peter Dawson (R&A CEO) was very tight-lipped on the issue, claiming only that it had come to their attention that a professional had been caddieing for a GB&I team member. He then wittered on about it having been clearly stated in 'bumph' that professionals were not allowed thereby skillfully deflecting any further probing as to whom the eejit wis wot told player (who should have known better) and Team Captain (who certainly should have known better) that it was ok for a bleedin' professional to caddie for an amateur in an amateur event!!!

I always thought that it was a well known fact that Professionals could not caddy in the Walker Cup, seemingly not!

7-5 to the goodys so decent end result today but could easily have gone either way. There was a mixture of great and very poor shots which made for an open contest.
The English guy playing for the USA looks the pick of the bunch to me.

There's an English guy playing for America. Treachery.












Oh right, his name's English.

Cheers guys

Does seem strange that you would think a pro caddie would be allowed, although it does also seem like they did enquire about the acceptability of it.

Good to see common sense has prevailed, hope this does not overshadow what has seemed top be a good event, in the parts i watched

I can only assume that the Americans who played in that match conceded that the caddy acted only as any other caddie would - and didn't act as a "pro" in anyway - hence their acceptance that they'd let it go

BTW is the problem that he is a "pro-caddie" or "a caddie who also happens to be a professional golfer"?

a professional golfer

I have just worded it badly, sorry

I though it was clear that a pro couldn't carry for an Am in an Am event. I went to the trouble of checking back in June as I wanted my Pro to caddy for me in an Open at the Oxfordshire a few weeks before my Trilby Tour heat. When I asked I got a quite unequivocal NO!! Said in such a way to imply "how stupid are you to even ask!!" and that was at local level, these guys have access to the top rules officials in the country!!

Gael.
Did you not think that Mr Dawson was very polite. I would have said ' See yon Walker Cup officials, they are a complete bunch of numpties'.

I saw Peter Dawson's interview on BBC and he was basically saying "he should have known better". The players spent the whole week with their caddies. It must have been common knowedge amoungst the group that the brother was a pro. There must be dozens of R&A officiials at Royal Aberdeen this week. The player and captain asked the question and got the wrong answer. They must have asked poeple from the R&A, but Dawson appeared to be firmly passing the blame onto the player.

The rule should not be changed. The Walker Cup should be like any other amatuer competition and pros should not be allowed on the bag. Just because the very top amateurs are essentially semi-pro should not result in a rule change. The distinction between amateur and pro needs to be protected.

Scottie
These guys are not amateurs, they are being paid to play golf. They all play full time. They all have managed trust funds which amounts to a fair bit of cash and they do not pay for thier equipment.
Time to change this farce.

Perhaps replace it with an under 18's contest [age that is, not handicaps]

Doon the Water wrote:Gael.
Did you not think that Mr Dawson was very polite. I would have said ' See yon Walker Cup officials, they are a complete bunch of numpties'.

The whole saga is very strange. The R&A simply doesn't allow professionals anywhere near any of its events so it seems inconceivable that an R&A official (who send only their most experienced officials to these types of events) would have told the player and Captain it was ok. So, can we be certain it was R&A official who was asked or had he just misheard the question and thought he was only being asked if it was ok for his brother to caddie?

As for Peter Dawson, I would describe him as a person who is "inebriated with the exuberance of his own 'pomposity' " !!!

The yanks were very magnanimous about the whole thing so, kudos to them.

Firstly as Gael mentions above hats off to the yankees for their dealing of the situation and allowing the reulst to stand.

Secondly I understand the Walker Cup is the pinnacle of Am events for GB&I as well as for USA. But these kids/men are full time golfers, they get their equipment for free from sponsors, spend as much time on their games as touring pros and even Tom Watson has said they are Am's in name only.

I can understand not letting regular amateurs using pro's as a caddy, but really is it that big an issue when they hit this level no I don't thinks so, it's still the amateur playing the match and executing the shots. As long as the pro is not coahing the player I can see no issue with allwoing it

Mav~ That's the rub, how do you know that the caddy is not saying 'keep your left arm straight and watch the ball'.

Gael~ wonderful description of the R&A seccy.

"As long as the pro is not coahing the player I can see no issue with allwoing it."

Maverick, how on earth would anyone know if they were coaching though.

As much as I understand the arguments surrounding the issue of 'shamateurism', I hope this is a line the R&A never crosses if only for the avoidance of the above scenario. Quite apart from anything else, they take too bleedin' long to play as it is!

Cheers Doon.

Dawson always comes across as a total pillock - seems to be he is the one who "should know better". (Alan Greenspan would have said "irrational exuberance", gael!)

Senior with a fine win this morning. Let's hope for three more to go with it.

One rule I do think needs to be looked at is players being allowed to take practice putts after a hole has been completed. It's banned in professional golf and should be banned in premier amateur events. After missing a putt, Cantlay took not one, not two but three practice putts even though he had retained the honour on the next tee. Gamesmanship? Perhaps but whatever the reason, it ought to be banned if only to speed matters up.

I don't know which way to look just now ... Walker Cup or Gary Orr currently leading the dutch event!

gael,
Not banned in Match Play, including the Ryder Cup . . . . . . . Though perhaps it should be.

kwinigolfer wrote:(Alan Greenspan would have said "irrational exuberance", gael!)

Better still kwini (says she sho's just had to google Alan Greenspan). <insert blushing emoticon>

One thing's for sure, the americans are not going to go quietly in the afternoon singles so we need to get the upper hand in the 4somes again.

kwinigolfer wrote:gael,
Not banned in Match Play, including the Ryder Cup . . . . . . . Though perhaps it should be.

I'd forgotten about the pro match play events and was really just thinking about the stroke play events but, yes, it ought to be banned in the pro match play stuff as well.

3 1/2 to 1/2 is surely upper hand enough?

By the by: I imagine US Walker Cup Captain is the first to skipper a team in the Walker Cup having previously competed on the Champions Tour as a professional . . . . . . .

(PS: "Irrational exuberance" was a (locally) famous quote of his to describe stockmarket optimism!)

I think we could have a bit of a match this afternoon, a few squeeky bum moments on the 16th green perhaps.

kwinigolfer wrote:3 1/2 to 1/2 is surely upper hand enough?

By the by: I imagine US Walker Cup Captain is the first to skipper a team in the Walker Cup having previously competed on the Champions Tour as a professional . . . . . . .

(PS: "Irrational exuberance" was a (locally) famous quote of his describe stockmarket optimism!)

Oi, you've just ruined that for me. I've been 'stujustly' avoiding 'cheating' and am currently watch the 4somes on't telly!

Good point about the american captain. I'd forgotten that as well!

Re the "irrantional exuberance" quote, how very apt.

Sorry about that gael, didn't occur to me that you were infected with the US "tape delay" virus. That's not like GB&I TV is it?

Mucho apologies.

gaelgowfer wrote:One rule I do think needs to be looked at is players being allowed to take practice putts after a hole has been completed. It's banned in professional golf and should be banned in premier amateur events. After missing a putt, Cantlay took not one, not two but three practice putts even though he had retained the honour on the next tee. Gamesmanship? Perhaps but whatever the reason, it ought to be banned if only to speed matters up.

I don't know which way to look just now ... Walker Cup or Gary Orr currently leading the dutch event!

Not sure why it should be banned, the hole is over so he's gaining no advantage from having another go at it. Also, in regard to the time, does that really matter, it's not as if he's holding up a bunch of club hackers desperate to get off the course in three hours and into the bar is it.

Is that practice banned in professional golf? They were doing it in last years Ryder Cup and also in the 2011 WGC Matchplay so I'm not so sure it has been.

Hope this is on LIVE! somewhere now, not here unfortunately, but won't spoilt anyone's enjoyment other than to say: It's a thriller!

Doon the Water wrote:I see it has good coverage on the cooncil telly.
Well done the BBC.
Must be a bit wild and wooly up in Aberdeen, could be our only chance of a win.

Ok it is wild and wooly today lol

A normal non pro caddy can be taught a players swing flaws and say to them keep the left arm straight! So that as an argument for not having them doesn't stand up look at young Matteo his first caddie was his swing coach but I guess thats allowed because it was a pro event a major even but he was still as Am then!

A caddy is a caddy end of!

Sands
It's wild and wet wooly here in Ayrshire.

Good wins for Simon Dyson and my 'one to watch' Tommy Fleetwood.