Getting new blood into the game

Following on from comments on another thread, in which there were a couple of points highlighted regarding the womens game at club level still being pretty a midweek gathering for the older ladies brigade. Instead of moving with the times and having some Competitive play at weekends to accommodate lady members that are not stay at home wives whilst the man goes out to work.

I got to thinking about my own club and my old club too. My daughter this year as many know joined my club and is the only female junior. She is also the only female member under 40years of age.

Aside to this what I also see amongst male members is that the vast majority that are under say 40 have pretty much all played the game since they were juniors and introduced to it by their fathers. I cannot remember the last time I saw a new member that was say early 20's and new to the game. Also excuse me if this doesn't come across as PC not my strong point, but at my club there do not seem to be any black members and a small handful from an asian background. I find this a shame as I would like to see more diverse cultures across my club and at others.

So my question is this how do we get more women, young girls, younger male adults, and members from other ethinic backgrounds enticed onto the game and are organisations such as, the R&A, EGU and counties doing enough to bring new people into the game?

It's a tricky thing Mav, in a recent thread we were talking about the reasons why you wouldn't tell a female that you played golf as it usually results in the woman turning heel.
Is it more to do with a problem with the image of the game being a staid old mans game, perceived as being boring which might be a more difficult hurdle to get over than changing the way in which clubs are run.

More flexible pay as you play memberships, less stuffy rules about clothing, a more relaxed atmosphere on the course and in the clubhouse. Make facilities family friendly, have open days for schools and youth groups to play the course for free so kids who wouldnt otherwise play will get a chance to try the game. Break down cliques withing clubs so its easier for new members to find playing partners.
It took me 10 seconds to think of those off the top of my head, it would take most club committees the same amount of time to find excuses for not doing them.
Golf, in England anyway, is just is not an inclusive game as far as I can see.

I can't offer a lot in the way of solutions but it does make me appreciative of what a progressive club I belong to

We have a thriving junior section, including many girls including a couple who are very good and another girl who has just graduated to adult status and is also very good.

We have lots of youngsters (18-28) who aren't just kids brought up to play by their fathers, but who have joined independently of any family connections.

We have a strong ladies section who have plenty of weekend competitions as well as the midweek fixtures (sometimes it seems they have more weekend comps than the men!)

We have a variety of ethnic backgrounds, including committee representation.

We have open dys for schools and special junior open days with the head pro.

The dress code isn't TOO lax but nor is it the stuffy rules that Diggers refers to - I wouldn't want to see that relaxed any further; a family friendly clubhouse anda relaxed atmosphere on the course (without being TOO relaxed - I wouldn't want to see certain standards disappear completely)

All our comps are drawn so there are fewer cliques (certainly social games can still be a little cliquey but I see no way around that - but new members are able to meet new people through the drawn comps and we frequently get asked by the starter if a new member can join us in friendly games. I know of very few members who refuse this request or feel bullied into accepting a stranger into their bounce games.

This is the only golf club I have been a member of as an adult. I was a junior member in a much more old fashioned club back in the early 70s but I ws under the (mistaken) impression that far more clubs these days were progressive like my current club and I find it sad that my club seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Note I'm not saying my club is perfect. There are always one or two who break the norm and we have one or two members who probably would like us to be more like the kind of clubs you are all talking about. They are the exception though and I'm happy to be a member there (even though I think the membership fees are slightly overpriced I figure that's a small price to pay for such a harmnious atmoshpere

I think a major problem with golf is not so much its perceived staid image but the length of time it takes to play a round of golf. Even played at a decent pace, it'll take a 3-ball 3 hours or so to get round.

Perhaps we should take up Jack Nicklaus' suggestion of building 12 hole golf courses although I certainly wouldn't let him design them!

Sounds great Davie, I'd like to think your kind of club would be the rule rather than the exception but I really dont believe that is the case.

12 hole courses is a great idea Gael. Say 4 par 3's 6 par 4's and a couple of par 5's. Get round in a couple of hours, far more acceptable to the trouble and strife at home.

I played at the Shire over the bank holiday weekend, and couldn't help notice the ethnic diversity around the course, in particular the number of asian golfers. We had a leisurely brunch overlooking the 18th green, so I saw a good number of groups finishing. Judging by the swings on show, these guys were all relatively new to the game.

I can only guess that a new course like the Shire, with no traditions or established committee heirachy, must be much less intimidating (maybe more welcoming as well?) to new joiners.

It contrasts with the white, chummy, middle age profile at my club... AKA pale, male and stale. People are very friendly and welcoming at my club, however, the only diversity stretches to whcih football team you support.

gaelgowfer wrote:Perhaps we should take up Jack Nicklaus' suggestion of building 12 hole golf courses although I certainly wouldn't let him design them!

Although I quite like original Jack Nicklaus courses, always good driving courses with their elevated tees. Not a fan of Nicklaus junior and design team though; too much like design by numbers, the barratt homes of golf architecture.

Diggers wrote:Sounds great Davie, I'd like to think your kind of club would be the rule rather than the exception but I really dont believe that is the case.

I too thought it was the "rule" Diggers. That's why I'm so disappointed to hear from so many people here that it's not

Davie alas it is not the norm nor is it the "rule"

Our club is becoming more forward thinking that it was when I first joined, but that is down to employing a new younger secretary specifically brought in to bring the club up-to-date.

i know one of the things being done by a friend of mine who is a Pro down at the local Muni is he arranges with local schools to go out to them and introduce golf to youngsters, in the summer months April-Early july he gets them out on the school fields and teaches them the basics, with a twice a month mini bus to his course for shortgame. then in the winter he goes to them with vary mats, indoor specific golf balls and teaches them in school halls etc

Diggers wrote:12 hole courses is a great idea Gael. Say 4 par 3's 6 par 4's and a couple of par 5's. Get round in a couple of hours, far more acceptable to the trouble and strife at home.

This concept was tried at Northwick Park in Harrow... a 6 hole course designed to facilitate "golf in an hour". After a few years the course was modified to 9 holes, but it is still pretty quick to get around as the layout consists of two par 4's and seven par 3's. Most 9 holers tend to be poor courses, but at Northwick there is a collection of "championship holes" (USGA greens etc) that are well maintained so it still represents a challenge. I'm not sure how popular the course is or how successful it has been in developing its niche, however the driving range is always busy and seems very popular with families.

http://www.northwickpark.com/

This is ideal for the odd evening round or weekend when you haven't got much time, but the problem is that if you are a competent golfer you want to test yourself over 18 different holes, so may end up having to join 2 courses.

municiple course down the road from where I live has what they call a long 9. It has 4 x par 4's, 3 x Par 3's and 2 x Par 5's.

Can be played in about 1hour 15mins. Is a good little test of golf and means getting home quicker for those that cannot justify 3 hour rounds

Regarding 12-hole courses:
What's wrong with 9-hole events?
I know it's easier here than there as most courses here are built to pass by the club-house after 9 holes, but many Junior competitions, school events are 9-holers here (as are most mens and womens leagues), and I would never have expected my young guy to play any more than nine until he was about 9 or 10.
Many/most(?) courses here have a 9-hole rate and often a junior rate too. That makes golf very accessible for a young child or two plus an adult.

As for ethnic diversity, I would say that depends here on the location - no issue at most places in the North-East.

Was going to basically say what Kwini has just said.
Surely those who don't have the time for 18 holes can just play 9? What's the problem with that??

Davie - what club are you at?

I don't think the problem is just people having the time to play as most if their interest was pricked wouldn't mind the time taken to play a game they enjoy,

for me it's how do we entice these new player, women, races into the game at a club level,

Our club has just started a junior academy, which seems to be working well. We do however only have one coloured member, which seems a bit of a joke, and the other big issue is only having 18 lady members. Some of the problems surrounding lady membership are:

Not enough locker/changing room facilities for ladies - this is going to be addressed.

Most ladies prefer to play golf through the week, while hubby/kids are out of the house.

A few lady members can only play at weekends as they work, therefore comp's are split, which is a joke as conditions and flag positions will be different. This has been remedied by having seperate comps, but again not ideal as 3 ladies in one group on Saturday and 3 or 4 ladies (Has been 2) on Tuesdays hardly of any use as you could be guaranteed a top 3 in every QC.

More often than not ladies will prefer weekday slots, as they feel intimidated by cliques of men at weekends. They feel less pressure through the week as the course isn't as busy. Ladies get peed off following slow men, who make sure they don't let the ladies through.

I have 3 close friends whose wives play golf, but have all stated that they will never play with the wife.

Mrs Doc has been heavily involved in the ladies section at our club, and is also on the main committee. She sees all the problems concerned with lady member recruitment. Most ladies are not as competative, and play golf as a social thing, and will cancel a round to look after gradkids, go shopping, visit a relative or anything. There are around 8 ladies who turn out every Tuesday and a regular bunch of 3 who turn out every Saturday. The rest just drift in and out when the mood takes them. This middle group would change however if clubs were more receptive to ladies needs, and of course changed the culture/thinking of many male members

Just found this link via the EGU website, not to bad but not the greatest of help.

http://www.getintogolf.org/

Also looked at the R&A website, possibly the biggest organisation in amateur golf, and useless unless you know how to navigate the page and exactly what your looking for to get into the game, then when you do find it, it's long drawn out mostly drivel.

So looked at website for Gillingham golf club, where I was introduced to the game before I moved onto better a better course. There website again useless. From both a new to the game aspect and if you happen to be female to. Nowhere on there does it state how to get into the game or link your to somewhere that can tell you, or about how to get tuition or interest. Even going into the site deeper you can see the draws for comps and results and best thing for me is they have an event called the "equality" trophy that is only open to Male members! Very Equal that.....

May have to delve into this further as i'm keen to see how we can get more playing the game

Doc wrote:Our club has just started a junior academy, which seems to be working well. We do however only have one coloured member, which seems a bit of a joke, and the other big issue is only having 18 lady members. Some of the problems surrounding lady membership are:

Not enough locker/changing room facilities for ladies - this is going to be addressed.

Most ladies prefer to play golf through the week, while hubby/kids are out of the house.

A few lady members can only play at weekends as they work, therefore comp's are split, which is a joke as conditions and flag positions will be different. This has been remedied by having seperate comps, but again not ideal as 3 ladies in one group on Saturday and 3 or 4 ladies (Has been 2) on Tuesdays hardly of any use as you could be guaranteed a top 3 in every QC.

More often than not ladies will prefer weekday slots, as they feel intimidated by cliques of men at weekends. They feel less pressure through the week as the course isn't as busy. Ladies get peed off following slow men, who make sure they don't let the ladies through.

I have 3 close friends whose wives play golf, but have all stated that they will never play with the wife.

Mrs Doc has been heavily involved in the ladies section at our club, and is also on the main committee. She sees all the problems concerned with lady member recruitment. Most ladies are not as competative, and play golf as a social thing, and will cancel a round to look after gradkids, go shopping, visit a relative or anything. There are around 8 ladies who turn out every Tuesday and a regular bunch of 3 who turn out every Saturday. The rest just drift in and out when the mood takes them. This middle group would change however if clubs were more receptive to ladies needs, and of course changed the culture/thinking of many male members

Doc, I think the women you are catering for are clearly over 30 and probably over 40. Id imagine very few women in their 20's are not out working and therefore the midweek golf is utterly useless for them.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Was going to basically say what Kwini has just said.
Surely those who don't have the time for 18 holes can just play 9? What's the problem with that??

Davie - what club are you at?

How many comps at clubs are played over 9 holes ? If you want to joinm a club you need to play comps to play with a few people and meet some other members. All will be 18 holes and therefore take up a lot of the day.

Digs,
I was just passing on experience from the NE US; doesn't have to apply to GB&I, but thought the input would be welcomed.
Of course, you may have hit on the root of the problem; no idea why anyone would poopoo 9-hole golf as a means to gain access, for starters of any age.
I know my first quasi-competitions were 9-hole work leagues and I was thirty by then.
Fortunately, the area I was playing was also blessed with several excellent 9-hole courses, but 9-hole competition on 18-holers very common.

Diggers wrote:How many comps at clubs are played over 9 holes ? If you want to joinm a club you need to play comps to play with a few people and meet some other members. All will be 18 holes and therefore take up a lot of the day.

Fair comment Digs
So is the idea a 12 hole course would play 12 hole comps and basically run the whole thing on a 12 hole basis? Could work i guess. Not sure how interaction with other clubs (ie matches) would work but could probably be made to fit

gaelgowfer wrote:I think a major problem with golf is not so much its perceived staid image but the length of time it takes to play a round of golf. Even played at a decent pace, it'll take a 3-ball 3 hours or so to get round.

Perhaps we should take up Jack Nicklaus' suggestion of building 12 hole golf courses although I certainly wouldn't let him design them!

Gael:
At our club we have running what's known as a 'Thursday night roll up' which is an informal gathering (mixed) where you play stableford over 12 holes. Winner gets some prize-money at end of season. I never finish work early enough to take part, but am told it works really well.

MAV:
We have a strong ladies section (younger women as well as seniors) and there are lots of mixed comps as well as single gendre comps throughout the year, including men were women matchplay team event which is good fun.

I don't find our club stuffy at all - we have a spike bar which is handy if you want a quick pint after without getting changed. We are a pretty diverse bunch; there are a number of Asians and Afro Carribeans among our active members and you get a real blend of the builder with tatts all up his arms to monied folk who have retired to the Cotswolds.

I so agree with you, Diggers (for once). One of the reasons I have given up playing golf over the last two years (apart from my hip operations) is because I was losing interest playing with the women at my club and becoming disillusioned with the way women's golf is administered in general. It's not that I'm not interested - I'm an avid watcher of the European Tour especially on Sky (can't stand the US commentators ) - I just don't have the inclination to play any more.

As someone who works full time, despite being technically of retirement age, I was finding it frustrating not being able to play competitive golf (matches, Opens etc) which are always played midweek and only playing club competitions at weekends with two or three other women who also work, if they bothered to turn up. The majority of the women members are even more senior than me and play during the week but their scores are always so poor that comps are invariably "reduction only" for handicap. They have no competitive edge and the speed of play (and the inability to count properly!) used to drive me to distraction when I did play in the occasional midweek game.

Over the years, there have been to my recollection only three junior girls (one is currently a member and joined with her mother). The other two gave up the game when they got older.

I am now waiting until I have retired from work (so can be a 5-day member at a reduced rate) before joining another club. I'm taking my clubs on holiday with me to Tenerife in two weeks' time so might get the urge back again! Will be interesting to see.

NST sounds like a progressive and forward thinking club then for the ladies section,

Based on getting people into the game, last night something astonishing at the range. Took myself and OldMan Mav down there found a couple of decent bays, not far from the teaching bay. Was nice and quiet initially just me and him helping each other work on a few things. Then a young guy i'd say mid 20's entered the teaching bay ready for a lesson, Pro turned up asked him how long he'd been playing "6weeks the reply" then pro set about getting him set up to teach showed him correct grip and that was it that was his tuition as the pro spent the next 25 mins of a 30 min lesson chatting to guys he knew at the range and messing about trying to show them how far he could hit their clubs and having what must have been at least 10fags in 30mins. Then Once time had passed the pro turned to the poor beginner and said same time next week yeah. Response form learner no thanks mate I ain't paying you to **** about with you pals whilst I stand here and teach myself, i'll be going somewhere that I get something out of it....

Now this pro was not a young guy he was mid to late 30's and should have known better but no he let his ego with the boys come through and be surpirsed if his student ever returns to the range just hope it hasn't put him off the game for good

Mav,
Good for the beginner for saying exactly what he thought, hopefully loud enough for more than just those closest to hear.
Still think 9-holers (or at least 9-hole rounds) and pitch-and-putts are a great way to start, for young and old. Enough to learn some basics and short enough to keep interest. If you enjoy it, move on to 18 holes and something requiring more commitment, including equipment.

Kwini - Couldn't agree more with how glad I was to hear him tell him straight.

As for you idea's on the 9 holers, I think thats a good place to start.

Mav - wasn't it you back on the old 606 who had a run-in with a range pro who wanted to take you on with a bet over who could hit it further - and some other issue too? I can't remember the exact details but I seem to remember you (or whoever it was) getting a written apology?

Was it you and was it the same range?

Davie it was me, different range different circumstances.

To relive that moment it was at range near what is now my old office, when the young assitant and his pal were trying to do a bit of "old chap measuring" who can hit it further to which I won, that was at Birchwood and I was offered a free round there as a result of young lads idiocy.

This last night I never noticed myself at first until OldMan Mav gave me the nudge, but putting both things from those range experiences into consideration does this now reflect why many don't goto range pro's for advice...

Yeah realize it was a different situation but thought it was you. Does seem to say something bad about ranges though hardly a large sample

Have to say don't really know what ranges are like in other areas of the country, but they do round here seem to be fill with relatviely poor pro's with big ego's that cannot get jobs at a club, as nearly every pro at clubs in the region are more than reputable

I once overheard a pro (now an amateur at my club) telling his pupil he had the perfect grip and swing. I nearly wet myself laughing.

There is a saying that "not all golfers are idiots, but all idiots are golfers"
So true.


There isn't a sport in the world which can kick itself in the teeth quite as much as golf does. No wonder it's got an image problem.

I consider myself very fortunate to have had lessons with our club pro back in the 1990s who was Tony Grubb. Tony was the complete antithesis of some of the egomaniac d**kheads mentioned on this and other threads. Very humble, generous man and when he taught me was still playing some tourneys on the Euro Seniors tour (I only found this out from other club members he didn't like to talk about himself very much). From what I heard though he was an excellent striker of the ball back in his heyday in the 1960s, but had an accident (might have been a car crash) which limited him somewhat afterwards. Perhaps Doon, Shanker or some of our other senior 606v2ers saw him play way back when....

This is something that I worry about. As someone who got back into playing golf in my late 20s and am now ten years on and a member of my local club for the last 8 years I feel pretty well qualified to talk about.

I have plenty of golfing friends who have talked about joining clubs but the main objections are the cost of membership and particularly the joining fee. Most of them don't think that they will get the use out of it to justify the fee.

I would guess that the solution would be to get to some sort of system where you pay different amounts which may give you a certain number of rounds then you pay for extra.

One other friend who did join his local club did so as they offered a deal where you signed up for a 6 week course of group lessons then could join for the rest of the year at a 50% discount. (This was pro rata so half price). He did the course as it was good value, liked the place and the deal was so good that it was a no brainer to give it a go. He is now into his 2nd year and paying full price.

I guess it is a case of getting people through the door then backing the quality of your club make them want to stay.

My club has a large joining fee which they just will not budge on although it can now be paid over 4 years. The argument is that it stops people switching clubs every year. I say ditch the joining fee and as I think ours is one of the best in the area, people will stay.

Our membership numbers are well down on 5 years ago but we are a very traditional club so change is slow.

Finally one of the other local clubs have a pro organised roll up on a Saturday morning mainly so new members can meet people and so on. One of the hardest things on joining a club is not knowing people and it is pretty intimidating seeing groups of people who appear to have been in the same groups for years turning up. This may not be the case but to make a slightly more formal one where the pro (who knows everyone) as the central person is a better incentive.

twoeightnine wrote:I would guess that the solution would be to get to some sort of system where you pay different amounts which may give you a certain number of rounds then you pay for extra

My club do exactly this. They call it a Lifestyle Membership and you pay a small annual fee but then buy 'credits' which are used up every time you play. Saturday mornings use up more credits than Weds afternoon etc.
I'm not sure how many other clubs offer a similar thing? I would think a fair few do. Might be worth looking into TwoEightNine?