Hook, Jones and all Welsh players in general, listen to the King...

First topic message reminder :

... That's King John of course.


Anyone else see the programme on the 71 Lions. Good show, but something that Barry John said I thought is still valid in today's game.

He said, he targeted the All Black 15, and knew there was no point in kicking it up in the air, as he would just return it every time. So his tactic was simple. Find space, behind the team and kick it there, it meant the full back was chasing ball all the time and having less time to return it. He also fumbled the ball several times as he had to chase the ball, turn, bend, you name it. The full back (think it was Fergie McCormick) although a good player was in his words "made to look foolish by John". That was the last time he was selected for the All Blacks.

So, back to my title. Our "kicking" game needs to be varied, not the usual "ping pong" which is easily caught and returned (usually with interest), but if nothing is on, put it low and into big spaces, make the opposition turn and chase awkward ball. Then, every now and again, when they expect and cover space give them a high ball, with the pack chasing them.

Wales needs to be unpredictable, mix things up, and make the back 3 run around the spaces.

Thoughts ?

Dreamer, . You really are dreaming!!
Age has nothing to do with injuries and recovery time? Blimey.
I didnt say you'd pick hook. I said gats would.
I'm sorry you're right hook played behind a completely different pack to Stephen. A pack that provided him with quality ball. What?
Did you seeing the shoeing our pack got against England.
James hook can win you a match.

You know what MoG, you're misreading everything I'm saying, I don't know why, whether it's intentional or not but I guess it's just suiting your purpose to. I'm done, not wasting my time on you anymore.

Dreamer. These are my beliefs. All I'm saying is that we relied too long with jones and haven't developed the way the Irish have. I'm not intentionally trying to wind you up and I too agree with a lot that gats says. he talks a lot of sense. I just feel that bringing through some excellent talent in the summer was just a little late. I will say that our future looks great.

rugbydreamer wrote:Exactly right Gatts (although the last point possibly debatable, this is the WRU we're talking about, they could just as easily keep him on)

no quarter, no Gatts

I bet George North's jockstrap on it

I've got no argument with you in saying that we've brought through talent too late, I've already agreed with you on that. What I don't like is you seemingly vilifying Stephen Jones to suit your argument. Doesn't sit well with me at all, I just think it's unecessary.

Dreamer. I'm saying nothing.

manofgwent wrote:Lydiate, like warburton is a shoe in. He's one of our key players. Sideways jones will be 8.
On the fly half debate. Wow, this never stops.
I think from what I've read, there i's one thing that stands out. We can't just throw in priestland, faletau or Scott Williams. Not because they aren't good enough, but because I don't think gatland will risk players that have (apart from 20 mins in 6n for priestland) only played for Wales this summer in warm up games. For this I hold gatland completely responsible. He just can't throw them into a proper competitive game. This just shows how poorly gatland and his coaches have used the last 2 years.
On James hook. He's an incredibly talented player and I take my hat off to him. He's Been moved around the welsh back-line, fitting in when players are out. But gatland's never backed him and said James you're my 10. Look at Ireland. They've brought through sexton alongside o gara. England have brought through flood. We've just constantly picked Stephen jones. Hooks been everywhere from full back to the bench. Priestland had a run out at murrayfield. Biggar got 4 goes at it and tovey's been sat at home scratching his arse. Did warren not know that the now seemingly constantly crocker jones was knocking 34 come the WC.
Sorry if I'm repeating what I've posted what I've been posting for the last 18 months, but the inept bunch of coaches in charge of our nation make me mad.

Amazing comments
Some Welsh posters have selective memories

Hook has played what 54 or 55 times for Wales and quite lot of those have been in the flyhalf channel.

Jenkins then Gatland always played him as a 10 first and foremost, he was played alongside Jones alternating with him............. EXACTLY like ROG and Sexton and remember ROG played last for Ireland, and like Wilko and Flood, and like Parks and Jackson. Hooks displays for the Ospreys and then for Wales have cost him his place at 10...... and thats happened from the 2006 all the way to his last 6Ns match (ahem remember his match against France only a few months ago). If anything Gatland has persevered with him rather than messed him around.

Hooks shoulder injury has no doubt hampered him, since it has healed his overall game at 10 has improved as can be seen over the last few games, he has played steady and defensively well.............. and it wouldn't be a suprise that Gatland will pick him at 10. However all posters must agree that Priestland has been the better 10 in the friendlies

manofgwent wrote:ML> Ryan will start and should do too. But only for leadership. He'll work his socks off, but is as mobile as an arthrytic poodle.
Priestland and Faletau could start if they'd had the game time over the last year they could have had.,
We've got an awful lot of players in the squad that have pretty much only won caps in the summer. |Burns, Bevington, Knoyle, L.Williams, Faletau, Priestland amd Scott Williams. How poorly have the last 2 years been spent?

I am not so sure I agree with this assesment.

Burns isnt ready for Regional rugby yet, let alone International rugby.
Bevington is nowhere close to International standard yet.

These two will both benefit hugely from the experience, but will only be used in emergencies. Bevington may well go on to have a long and successful career. I think Burns will struggle even at regional level unless he ups his core skill levels (vital at 2).

Knoyle, Scott Williams & Lloyd Williams would have been left field suggestions even 1 year ago, let alone two. they were only just starting to get Regional exposure.

Toby F and Priestland COULD have been brought into the International fold earlier - but only just in the case of Toby - he STILL isnt the finished article. I think he is going to be a great player for us, but I think this World Cup is a year or two too early for us to see him at his best. I hope his confidence doesnt get knocked.

So we are left with Priestland. I think he should have been capped earlier too, but I can see why they didn't. At least two players ahead of him in both his specialist positions 1 year ago, and before that there were arguably 3 10s ahead of him if you include Gatland looking at Biggar.

I think Gatland has succeeded in giving us a squad that has far greater strength in depth than any we have had in the professional era. I don't agree with all his choices along the way, but I think your criticisms of him are unfair. They smack of 20/20 hindsight.

MK. Not hindsight. I've been boring everyone senseless with my comments on the old 606 and get slated for suggesting that certain players should be getting a chance.
Knoyle could and should have been given more time and I think Rees should have gone for experience.
I agree with Burns not being up to it and in a lot of cases we have so littlle depth it's quite frightening.
My comments on Hook are that if Stephen Jones stayed fit in the 6 nations, Hook wouldn't even have been considered at 10. We haven't developed Hook at 10. Gatland moved him to centre or full back and only picked him at 10 when Jones got injured. It's not development.
Ireland stuck with Sexton through some very poor performances. Would we have done the same?

manofgwent wrote:MK. Not hindsight. I've been boring everyone senseless with my comments on the old 606 and get slated for suggesting that certain players should be getting a chance.
Knoyle could and should have been given more time and I think Rees should have gone for experience.
I agree with Burns not being up to it and in a lot of cases we have so littlle depth it's quite frightening.
My comments on Hook are that if Stephen Jones stayed fit in the 6 nations, Hook wouldn't even have been considered at 10. We haven't developed Hook at 10. Gatland moved him to centre or full back and only picked him at 10 when Jones got injured. It's not development.
Ireland stuck with Sexton through some very poor performances. Would we have done the same?

Yes you have !!
Did you not see Hooks performance against France in the 6Ns it was only a few months ago mind............ if that had been Biggar, Robinson, Sweeney, or even Jones there would have been a tirade of abuse and calling for them never to play in a welsh jersey again

You really froth at the mouth and have fits every time Hook is mentioned don't you FHF? Why? He doesnt play for your country, your region or your club.

Its not healthy I am sure. Try thinking about something else instead - you will do yourself an injury.

ML

I am always in close proximity to the Welsh (not so much these days) but have 15 (of various Blues/Os/Dragons) guys working for me so have to endure their views.

Plus the fact I love the welsh nature and enthusiasm............ and will always support when my men are not playing

Unfortunately we don't seem to have the same views in Scotland e.g. Parks v Jackson we kinda all seem be of the same opinion.

I will be rooting tooting for the boys in red when they are performing

I have to agree with ML. Fly half, you must stop people in the street and tell them about hooks performance in France.
If I go on about gatland. Then fly half, you've got a degree in criticising James hook.
I'm just glad Scotland haven't got a flamboyant 10. You'd be suicidal!!

MOG

Yep thats just as much sense as you have made so far

Flyhalf. He he!!
You up at 2 for the scots?

MOG

I should be there matey................ first one I have missed work issues has kept me in the UK grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

If you want you can watch it with me and a few mates at my gaff, free beer and great grub, heck I am sure between us we'll work out

Parks - how can he actually tackle ANYTHING
Byrne - how to sell more "bling", and get back to form
Slong - is he really that "big"
Hook - is he the man "possessed" or "repossessed"

and those old chestnuts
Scotland - "Tries", "Damn Tries" and " What a load of Love sacks"
Wales - "On Their Day"........... "We can rule the World"......... please can we have that day TODAY