Ospreys v Edinburgh Saturday 10/09/11 Rabo Pro-12

First topic message reminder :

Being as there's one for the other Rabo match, thought I'd start one ready for this fixture on Saturday afternoon. Neither of the teams have been announced yet but as soon as they are, I'll update this opening post.

Following their win over Leinster, the Opsreys will be looking to continue their successful start to the Rabo Pro-12 at home again. However, Edinburgh will be sore from their defeat by the Blues and will want to make up for it with a win - and an away one would be a bonus for them. Statistically, the Opsreys come out top at 9 wins to 6 over Edinburgh when they've met in the Celtic League previously, but that's not always anything to go by.

The Ospreys are as follows:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Kristian Phillips
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Hanno Dirksen
10 Dan Biggar
9 Rhys Webb

1 Duncan Jones
2 Mefin Davies
3 Cai Griffiths
4 Ian Gough
5 Ian Evans
6 Tom Smith
7 Justin Tipuric (Capt)
8 Jonathan Thomas

Replacements:

16 Scott Baldwin
17 Aaron Jarvis
18 Joe Rees
19 James Goode
20 James King
21 Tom Isaacs
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Sonny Parker

Wales - yeah I feel sorry for Biggar, he gets his fair share of abuse sometimes. It wasn't his fault that the two kicks weren't allowed, just one of those things. If he hadn't kicked it far enough then the fans would've booed him anyway!

Fair play Tipuric is some player, it wont be long until he is playing for Wales on a regular basis. Him and Warburton in the same backrow could be awesome

Holley just said the crowd were fantastic?! What is he deaf?! They were pricks! Chanting "cheat! cheat! cheat!" at the ref, booing all the time, booing the MOTM award....

Guess he can't really say anything else though can he Cari? crowd numbers are down and I don't think they want to alienate the ones who are actually turning up! then again, maybe it is something he should mention, it isn't something you want to see in the game. Tricky to know how to handle it I guess.

Its frustration Cari. Your at the game, the refs having a mare, the fans feel their team should be winning....

Been there and done it myself.

Breadvan - I understand frustration but to abuse your own player and to boo the MOTM announcement is appalling. End of. I don't like to see that sort of behaviour creeping into our game. It's just not rugby.

Cari wrote:Holley just said the crowd were fantastic?! What is he deaf?! They were pricks! Chanting "cheat! cheat! cheat!" at the ref, booing all the time, booing the MOTM award....

Were you at the same game as I was? It almost broke the referee's heart to give us that winning try at the end.
The crowd were always behind the Ospreys, and we tried everything we could to push them to win. I liked the way Jonathan Thomas came towards the crowd and gave us a clap at the end to say thanks.
We were very frustrated but not with the team, though Fussell and Kristian Phillips were awful tonight, and hopefully both will be dropped for their inept performances. The referee is what cheesed everyone off, some of his decisions were bloody awful.
But to say your fellow Ospreys supporters are "pricks" is way out of order.
I never heard anything bad said about Biggar in the whole match.

mpc28 wrote:Fair play Tipuric is some player, it wont be long until he is playing for Wales on a regular basis. Him and Warburton in the same backrow could be awesome

how would that work, i see neither tipuric or warburton as a 6 and lydiate is one of the most underrated players within the welsh squad i would even dare say in the NH, his defensive play is sublime and he is a quality player.

Ref's like the one tonight will kill the game of rugby, he looked as if he wanted to ping one team the players looked confused and the crowd could see the same, thank god he is not part of the RWC panel of ref's. I agree with Alyn; Phillips and Fussell did not have great games but there is still too much kicking. The team worked very hard throughout the game and the crowd did what a home crowd should do and put pressure on the ref when he is giving their team a hard time.

I must admit I am no fan of Biggar but I did not pick up on booing him!

welshy824 wrote:

mpc28 wrote:Fair play Tipuric is some player, it wont be long until he is playing for Wales on a regular basis. Him and Warburton in the same backrow could be awesome

how would that work, i see neither tipuric or warburton as a 6 and lydiate is one of the most underrated players within the welsh squad i would even dare say in the NH, his defensive play is sublime and he is a quality player.

The problem is Lydiate, Tipuric and Warburton are all basically similar players and you'd be sticking square pegs in round holes just to have them all in the same team.
If Warburton isnt playing well, then pick Tips easy really.

I think people's gripes are more with the crowd booing Laidlaw when it was announced he was Man of the Match. That's really, really poor form.

glamorganalun wrote:Ref's like the one tonight will kill the game of rugby, he looked as if he wanted to ping one team the players looked confused and the crowd could see the same, thank god he is not part of the RWC panel of ref's. I agree with Alyn; Phillips and Fussell did not have great games but there is still too much kicking. The team worked very hard throughout the game and the crowd did what a home crowd should do and put pressure on the ref when he is giving their team a hard time.

I must admit I am no fan of Biggar but I did not pick up on booing him!

I'm smack bang in the middle of the crowd on the half way line and I never heard anything said about Biggar, and believe me I would of noticed it. He got a hammering during the Russia game, but since then the fans have supported him and given him a good ovation.
All the booing and "cheat" was aimed at the referee. Seriously how the Ospreys won that game is anyones guess, because the referee did all he could to make us lose it. He even seemed to award the try at the end, only to change his mind and ask the TMO just in case he could get away with not giving it to us. You could almost see his poor heart breaking when he was told to give it!
W
e are having a serious problem with Irish referees down the Liberty Stadium, not to sound paranoid but I really wonder whether their favouring other teams to try and hurt us so the Irish teams do better in the League.
It seems crazy that Fitzgerald was so awful and biased towards Leinster last week, and this week we have another Irish ref who is giving everything to the opposition.
The only frustraion from the crowd I heard was aimed at Kristian Phillips because he was terrible tonight, he tried that drop goal and the ball barely left the ground, and then he blew the try on the Edinburugh try line, when all he had to do was catch the ball. It's annoying but changes need to be made to freshen us up, because a few of the players were below par tonight.

Alyn - watching on tv, Biggar was definitely boo'd. That's how it came across.

I also don't think it's acceptable in any way shape or form to call a ref a cheat. Some Scarlets fans have started do chant this during last season as well and I absolutely hate it. It has no place at all in our game. Just awful.

rugbydreamer wrote:I think people's gripes are more with the crowd booing Laidlaw when it was announced he was Man of the Match. That's really, really poor form.

Actually no one was booing that either, we were still booing the decision to send Ian Evans off, we were looking at the line out from the Edinburugh side and it looked as though their props dropped the player, as much as Ian Evans might of interfered, and that incensed the crowd.
No one was moaning about the man of the match choice, sadly when watching it on TV you are only looking at where the ball is, not any other incidents that's going on, and just because there is booing going on when the man of the match is announced, it doesnt mean it is that, that the fans are unhappy about.

The crowd did get a few good laughs from Mefin Davies, the guy is such a legend, before each kick off, he runs in front of the chasing teams players, turns his back and jumps into the air, then lands theatrically like he's been fouled, it's not sporting, but it is soooooo funny to watch, lol.

rugbydreamer wrote:Alyn - watching on tv, Biggar was definitely boo'd. That's how it came across.

I also don't think it's acceptable in any way shape or form to call a ref a cheat. Some Scarlets fans have started do chant this during last season as well and I absolutely hate it. It has no place at all in our game. Just awful.

You probably just heard the booing when the camera was on him, to be honest. I can assure you I know the people who sit around me who get on Dans back and they all behaved themselves tonight.
As I said earlier I only heard one fan lose it, and that was one guy behind me who was shouting at Kristian Phillips when he botched that try at the end of the second half.

the motm was announced a fair while after the Ian Evans card (which was fully deserved). It's just poor form you don't applaud that announcement and I'm sorry, that reflects really badly on Ospreys fans. It's just plain decency to ackowledge the expolits of a player who has been chosen for that accolade. I was honestly shocked by the O's fans tonight and really not in a good way.

Alyn - no offence like, but can you honestly say you could hear what ever single fan in the stadium was saying? Just because the ones near you weren't, doesn't mean others weren't either.

It came across on the tv, this is what people will have seen of the O's fans, and some aspects of it were disgraceful.

rugbydreamer wrote:the motm was announced a fair while after the Ian Evans card (which was fully deserved). It's just poor form you don't applaud that announcement and I'm sorry, that reflects really badly on Ospreys fans. It's just plain decency to ackowledge the expolits of a player who has been chosen for that accolade. I was honestly shocked by the O's fans tonight and really not in a good way.

Alyn - no offence like, but can you honestly say you could hear what ever single fan in the stadium was saying? Just because the ones near you weren't, doesn't mean others weren't either.

It came across on the tv, this is what people will have seen of the O's fans, and some aspects of it were disgraceful.

Every single fan... of course not, but the Ospreys stadium is a quarter bigger than the Scarlets one, and nearly ALL the Ospreys fans are in the South stand, and I'm in the middle of that stand on the half way line. To be honest as a fan sat in the stadium, you yourself would know, I would of had far more of an idea about the crowds reactions and feelings than someone who was sat at home watching the game in Welsh.
I know who the boo boys are amongst the season ticket holders because I sit with them each week, and all the booing and frustration was aimed at the referee, and later on Kristian Phillips when he screwed up once too often. On TV your only shown the immediate area around the ball, when attending a game you see everything but don;t have such a close up view of the actual ball, hence why you can suddenly hear a lot of elevated booing and chanting and not be totally aware of what is causing it.

Honestly Alyn. There was no booing, the stadium announcer said who the motm was....the booing started. This was when the camera was zoomed out btw, it wasn't focused on a small area of the pitch from what I can recall.

Maybe it was unfortunate timing but I honestly couldn't see anything else going on that would warrent that reaction. Maybe something was. Doesn't change the fact that on the TV...it came across as being appalling.

rugbydreamer wrote:Honestly Alyn. There was no booing, the stadium announcer said who the motm was....the booing started. This was when the camera was zoomed out btw, it wasn't focused on a small area of the pitch from what I can recall.

Maybe it was unfortunate timing but I honestly couldn't see anything else going on that would warrent that reaction. Maybe something was. Doesn't change the fact that on the TV...it came across as being appalling.

I'll have a look at it when S4C put the match up on their I player tomorrow, though when it was announced no one was booing that Man of the Match, so I'm not sure what the confusion is. Maybe I can clarify it tomorrow

well if they didn't boo it, they certainly didn't applaud it either.

rugbydreamer wrote:well if they didn't boo it, they certainly didn't applaud it either.

We couldn't hear it... we were too busy booing something

I was at the game tonight with my son and my obsevations are:
Many, many decisions against the Ospreys - hard to tell if they were justified or not from our viewpoint but the crowd were getting more and more frustrated.
I didn't hear any booing or slating of Biggar or any Ospreys.
I didn't hear MOM being announced so didn't hear any booing or associate any booing with the announcement.
There was booing of the ref and calls of cheat (plus some not quite so polite!), there was also slow handclapping and while it made me feel uneasy, it was generally good natured in the family area we were in.
I thought the crowd was doing it's best to get behind the Ospreys and at the end we were all on our feet as the try was scored in the dying minutes.
We haven't been to many games but are trying to make the effort ....in the end we went away with a warm feeling ....it really felt like a win that we had to dig out and beat more than just Edinburgh to get.

I'd also back up the comment that what you see and hear on TV and at the match are 2 completely different things.

Alyn - I apologise for insulting the fans by calling them pricks. I guess was a little frustrated and disappointed myself.

Whatever the reasons and wherever the booing is directed, it seems that one thing does appear to be happening - it's creating an ugly image of the game.

Cari wrote:Alyn - I apologise for insulting the fans by calling them pricks. I guess was a little frustrated and disappointed myself.

Whatever the reasons and wherever the booing is directed, it seems that one thing does appear to be happening - it's creating an ugly image of the game.

I don't often disagree with you Cari, but in my opinion I think it's fantastic to see some life inside the stadium, it's been so dead, and everyone so bored, so to see some passion from the team, and from the crowd, and to see them doing everything they can to lift the team to win the game, I think it's fantastic.
As a poster said above it clever words, it was clear to the fans inside the stadium that the Ospreys werent just up against Edinburugh last night, we were against a Irish referee who seemed to be determined to nit pick our team to death. That's why the fans were so vocal and annoyed.
The Ospreys have won 2 games and in both those games we have had 2 Irish referees who have favoured the away sides, instead of calling it down the middle. It's bringing the passion out amongst the supporters and everyone is getting behind the team because their really up against it.

I think it has the opposite effect though Alyn....it makes the atmosphere look worse to people who aren't there, and it'll probably put them off going. It's not so bad when there's a bigger crowd like at a derby because you don't hear it so much if it's a minority, but last night it really did sound awful. Sorry but it did.

http://s4c.tv/clic/e_level2.shtml?series_id=499901794

Game is up for download now ^^

I'm so pro, I was on Tv for the Scarlets V Aironi game last week, and I'm on it with my brother in law this week!
I'm the mean looking guy with the hood on!

That woman with the mask on was leading the CHEAT CHEAT CHEAT chanting from what I could see.



I can't describe how much respect I lost for Ospreys "fans" in that match. No concept of the rugby respect ethos. I can't genuinely believe that fans would think a referee is actually out to be biased, fraudulent etc.



I watched only 20 minutes of the match and I heard and saw:



- Fans yelling CHEAT CHEAT CHEAT at a referee

- Fans booing the Man of the Match award

- Fans booing their player being carded

- Fans booing during kicks at goal



In fact the only support for their own team I heard was when Tipuric scored a try.



I don't buy into this "oh but the ref was mean to us" as an excuse. I'm a Munster fan and I think we have acted deplorably towards one particular ref. I saw one Munster fan address a ref as a C**T as the ref was entering the stadium. There is too much of a soccer attitude creeping into the game and I think games like Ospreys v Edinburgh last night were an example to those watching on TV.

I'm an Ospreys ST holder stag and yes we do have a few 'fans' who bring the football element to the game (big chris who sits with me, likes to have a few beers and shout alot ) but it doesn't happen at every game. I genuinly beleive that Sat nights crowd were just so pished off with the ref, frustration and emotion got the better of them. It happens! You want to get behind your team for 80mins not see a ref act like the game is all about him. Fans voice their disaproval with boo's and the odd chant. Shouting cheat is easy. I'd be far more worried if football style chants started creeping into the game. Thankfully down at the Liberty, they aren't.

I'd never boo a kick at the sticks by the away team. Even if it was a last min go to give the Scarlets a win...

Oh no not at every match. Don't get me wrong at all. I watch the Ospreys a lot and its far from every match and its far from limited to the Ospreys.



As for the football stlye chanting how long before the CHEAT CHEAT CHEAT chanting becomes soccer style chanting - to me they aren't miles apart. Maybe next time it will be "the Referee's a WA*KER"

Usual internet trolls Cari. They're probably not at the game themselves. Was it on the supporters facebook page? I guess the 'cheat' chant is just easy to shout. Your right it is puzzling. It'll be a dark day if fans do start chanting 'the referee's a er'. I hope we can self police ourselves and shout these idiots down.

Bread - when teams start getting popular its tough to keep the right atmosphere as others from non rugby backgrounds get involved. Keeping the silence in Thomond Park for kicks is something Munster have gone to a lot of efforts to preserve. The stadium announcer comes on the tanoy and addresses fans, tell them to be quiet and respect the club traditions etc. Still get idiots booing all kinds in Thomond time to time.

Breadvan - it doesn't matter now, I'm over it. I just found it disappointing at the time. I know one of them was at the game - she was the one who put me in my place by stating I knew nothing about rugby and wasn't a real fan because I was watching it on TV.

I just wasn't sure who the "cheat" chant was directed at - an opposition player? Or the ref...just puzzled me somewhat.

With regards to abusing the ref, at a derby in the CCS one year I was sat at, a group of lads started making homophobic chants at Nigel Owens, but they were shot down by other fans sat around them, so hopefully it won't catch on.

Yeh. Hats off to Munster & Lienster for the silence during the kicks. Its usually...usually its the kids who make the 'woooooooaah' noise before the kicks at the Ospreys. No malice in it really, the more the stadium announcer tells them the be quiet , the more they do it! Don't ask when the Scarlets roll into town.....

Unfortunately guys it seems to be the way some of the supporters are going. This football like attitude is very disappointing, but something I think we will have to live with.
Cari, I had to live in Cardiff for 2 years and got the same kind of rubbish off friends and work colleagues. I tried to get to as many home games as possible and even did away games, but apparently, I'm a plastic fan as I don't have a season ticket. Just reminds me of what my nan used to say...."You can't educate pork!!!"

Regarding fans who don't go to games, I think nowadays it is possible to be a fan and not attend.



In years gone by if you didn't go you didn't know anything about it. A radio report was all you had. Most games are televised, there is so much fan forum and media coverage. There are people who will watch all the games and buy all the gear without ever going to a game.

TB fairdo's to your nan she's right!

Just gets on my proverbial sometimes, as to why is it such a big deal? In the globalised society we now live in, people should support whoever they want! How many Man United fans actually go to all their games? And how many of them are from Manchester for that matter?

Staggy - I think that can be a good thing as well though. Look at English premiership football clubs. They've got fans from all over the world who'll never see them live, but as you say, they buy all the gear, the TV packages and make money for those clubs. Likewise, many other sports benefit from being exposed to fans in other places/countries - thinking of winter sports or surfing for example. The snobbery that comes from some fans gets right on my pip.

I never said it was bad. I'm actually one of those fans. I work with rugby all week and get to spend a lot of time on these forums, I referee at least once at the weekend and still have to balance seeing my mates (many of whom aren't rugby fans), my family, my girlfriend, studying for my latest degree.



At a maximum I'll go to about 10 games a year. I've been to the 2 Ireland home warm up games and I expect I'll be at one of the Six Nations games and maybe 4 Munster matches at most. So yea about 5-10 a year on average.

Staggy - Exactly. I'd say you're a very passionate rugby fan - even made it your job, and yet to some "fans" you wouldn't be "real" or know anything about rugby because you don't go and see enough of it live.

Bottom line is that with Irelands and Wales best refs away at the world Cup we have had to make do with poor quality referees, and some of them have been very, very poor.

Iv'e seen Andrew McMenemy of Scotland, in games between Scarlets Vs Aironi, and the Blues Vs Treviso and he is a very lax referee who lets far too many things go, has little idea how to referee the ruck, and doesn't seem to have any idea what off-side is. He will let teams concede penalty after penalty and won;t speak to a team until the crowd is practically ready to riot.

David Wilkinson of Ireland, who refereed the Ospreys Vs Leinster was probably the worst performance I have ever seen in a game, he was way out of his depth, and knew he had, had a terrible game.

Secondly I think the IRB have instructed refs to try and not get big scores in games, i.e. every game is a close (ish) game. It's clear to me that when one team starts to run away with a match, the referee will try and leash the team and let the losing one get away with more.

AlynDavies wrote:
Secondly I think the IRB have instructed refs to try and not get big scores in games,

Are you serious?

Big scores will attract people to the game,I really doubt that is occuring.

welshy824 wrote:

mpc28 wrote:Fair play Tipuric is some player, it wont be long until he is playing for Wales on a regular basis. Him and Warburton in the same backrow could be awesome

how would that work, i see neither tipuric or warburton as a 6 and lydiate is one of the most underrated players within the welsh squad i would even dare say in the NH, his defensive play is sublime and he is a quality player.

Tipuric has played 6 for the ospreys, now im not saying we should be dropping Lydiate but his problem is that he doesnt carry the ball enough for such a big lump and Tipuric is a very good ball carrier and is always on the shoulder of an attacking player which we need. SA play Burger and Brussow who are both opensides so i see no reason why it wouldnt work.

red_stag wrote:Are you serious?

Iv'e noticed that when a team starts to get in front, the referee starts penalising the winning team a bit more, and making it harder for them to increase their lead, as well as letting things go for the losing side. Iv'e seen this across the Rabo and the World Cup.
I think the IRB is desperate to avoid the huge scores we have seen in previous World Cup years, and for them to be able to prove that their huge investment in recent years in tier 2 nations is paying off, by closing the gap.

So Alyn, you really think the iRB is actually telling referees to go out and intentionally cheat teams out of points?

AlynDavies wrote:

red_stag wrote:Are you serious?

Iv'e noticed that when a team starts to get in front, the referee starts penalising the winning team a bit more, and making it harder for them to increase their lead, as well as letting things go for the losing side. Iv'e seen this across the Rabo and the World Cup.
I think the IRB is desperate to avoid the huge scores we have seen in previous World Cup years, and for them to be able to prove that their huge investment in recent years in tier 2 nations is paying off, by closing the gap.

You don't think, maybe, that when one team goes in front the other team tries hard to get themselves back into the game? Pressurising the other team naturally leads to penalties.

There's a "Conspiracy Theories" article in the off topic section.

no boys once again your putting words into my mouth, I just think referees are told to give a team losing by a big margin the benefit of the doubt.
Or at least referees are to be sympathetic to them.

Watching Samoa today, the Ospreys are picking up two more than useful players, I would rather they were Welsh.

glamorganalun wrote:Watching Samoa today, the Ospreys are picking up two more than useful players, I would rather they were Welsh.

Wales doesn't need either of them... Stowers wouldn't make it into the Welsh squad, and we are blessed with more than enough Scrum halves.