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There should be random testing before all fights. Up until 1 week before the fight and after the fights also.

Proven cheats should receive lifetime bans and be treated as the pariahs they deserve.

If people don't think they can get away with it, they are much less inclined to be tempted to cheat.

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D4

I see you're still not able to resist trotting out the same repetitive drivel.

Change the tune and give us all a break, you were houned off one board - surely just take the hint?

And regarding the feeble article - NSAC "World Leaders"? Really - what more do they do than any other commission? Because i'm pretty sure they all take blood samples after the fight etc, are they leading a crusade by introducing more stringent measures? Nope.

Seriously, just change the tune as you're already bringing this forum down with the same repetitive nonsense that is directed SOLELY at two fighters.

Get a life.

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D4..I put up an article on 606 about Toney and his use of Ped's about 2 years ago.The limited feedback suggested people didnt really care.
Boxing fans are now generally better informed thanks to the Manny Floyd debacle over testing (not taking sides or making inferences either way) but I still get the impression that fans dont care that much.
It will take a major figure to get busted or a ring tragedy to occur before the boxing world in general recognises the potential problems.
I have a background in competitive road cycling and have seen the damage that PED's do to a great sport and some fantastic athletes .It is also from that background that i have knowledge of steroids, EPO and the current weapon of choice for many HGH.
Boxing has a head in the sand attitude but that is shared by most other sports and their governing bodies.
Since I assume we can debate this in an adult manner and name names then some brief thoughts on individuals are these
Holyfield..guilty as sin..read the Balco testimonies..Evan Fields..buying for someone else..Look at the change in physique etc .Not for nothing is HGH nicknamed the fountain of youth in the trade!
Mosley..taking EPO..masking agents that would make a professional cyclist blush.Very advanced "stack"that would lead to greater strength and endurance without any weight gain.Ideal for any non heavyweght boxer
Toney..caught twice..the steroids found would be used by someone wanting to gain weight anb bulk but not concerned with looking "ripped" ie doesnt mind a few extra pounds.Surely what James needed at heavyweight
Toney is one of my favourites but he should be looking at a life ban for a second offence
Anyone linked to Victor Conte and his nutritional advice needs to be viewed with extreme scepticism and suspiscion .Read up on Balco etc to find out why
I stopped watching professional cycling for a while after the Landis positive test believing that a sport i cared for and had participated in was corrupt to the core
I have no wish to see Boxing reduced to such levels
Sermon over!

Gents,

Can't we all just get along?!?!

Seriosuly though, disagreeing is one thing but can we avoid resorting to insults and general bad feeling.

Thanks,

KB

King Beer

Get used to coxy abusing and swearing at others. See how D4 just responds in a polite manner, coxy could learn something from D4.

My apologies - urine. But it only serves to highlight how completely inept the testing is. But i guess if urine was "suffice" (like it is in your mind) then alllllll the other governing bodies just use urine testing with no blood tests. Oh wait... silly me they do both!!!!

Calling them world leaders in boxing for doing one test before and one after is like saying you're the most special child in your disabled class.

How many do they catch by the way? Out of competition as well? Do they have the facilities to perform those tests? Or would they use USADA that you frequently lambast with nonsense?

Skidd pretty much sums it up. No benefit of the doubt, no second chance, lifetime bans, no messing about. It's a dangerous enough sport without cheating. The testing is miles behind other sports and I can't even contemplate just how big it would be if they had any sort of proper testing. I'd expect massive names to go down. It's not going to happen though, no overseeing commission and fans/boxers themselves just don't care enough. Known cheats come back without any sort of stigma.

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Can't we all just get along?!?!

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No?!

After the millionth article indirectly related to the same two boxers you'll see my point.

And Shantel - how did your picks go in my fantasy boxing by the way? Haven't got time to keep it going, but will do something in the future.

Stop stalking me by the way, i see as usual you don't have anything to offer than a little sniping comment. At least when me and D4 lock horns it's usually on a boxing related subject. Feel free to join in

How would the boxing fans feel if a lot of the top names of the were banned for life. (not saying that they are all on PEDs it just hypothetical)

Would boxing not suffer for it.

I posted a few thread in the past about boxing being caught for PED use and even after the Floyd Mayweather blood tests smokescreen, highlighted the issue, it got very few responses, people didn't seem to care.

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D4, getting a life ban in any sport is harsh as they should be given the chance to eventually come back. Falling in line with 2/4 year bans would be suffice, problem you'll find is that there isn't a governing body - What is to stop a boxer crossing to a different country to fight? Naturally Marg saw his out, but if a guy gets banned for 4 years he can't sit around wasting money can he?

And therein lies the problem, WADA would have to assume control which would mean their testing companies i.e. USADA would have to control testing in the USA. Which no doubt makes you weep with joy....

Coxy

Why don't you pick on the big fights instead of pointless domestic fights. I picked Donaire to win by KO but you didn't put your famous betting thread up.

Alexander vs Bradley - a 50/50 fight that was close and yourself picked Alexander as well.

Chavez - I called him to win not my fault he couldn't take out a handpicked opponent.

Mora vs Vera - Everyone on your thread picked Mora to win

Sorry D4 for going of topic on your thread but Olympic style testing is the way forward. Boxing needs to catch up with the times.

Still waiting on that commission coxy, will I have to wait a long time?

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Apologies, i missed it. You keep saying NSAC, you want to prove that? Provide everyone with a list or something etc, sadly i'm a tad bit busy today and haven't got time, am guessing you've got it on your 100gb external drive dedicated to all things Manny?

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And NSAC follow the WADA testing procedures

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No, they don't. Do they randomly test both urine and blood? Nope. So that's not factually correct.

With Scott and Skidd on this. My view is as others have noted boxing is dangerous enough to start with the least participants should be able to know is they are fighting an opponent who is clean.

People need to ask themselves when tragedies such as Watson and Mclellan happen in the sport the sport is hard enough to justify, how difficult would it be if it was subsequently revealed the other fighter was on PED's. You could end up looking at fighters on manslaughter charges, probably rightly so.

Don't care what commission does what at the minute the testing is inadequate and the penalties are a joke.

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Rowley, only a matter of time before "something" happens and his oppo is found to be on something, or something comes out he took stuff from a whistleblower.

Would be a tragic catalyst, but a catalyst nonetheless

Good to see you've crossed over by the way, given up with the old 606 with haye1, tysonking and fight news generally dishing out dross.

Coxy

You have to admit they are amusing

D4thincarnation wrote:WADA or USADA do not have the authority to ban it is the commissions job. And NSAC follow the WADA testing procedures and follow the WADA prohibited list. Which does not have Xylocaine on it, which show there tests are not tailored for boxing.

Xylocaine isn't specific to boxing, you only bring that up because Mayweather admitted to using it, i'd be fairly certain many sport stars in other sports have used it, it's not much different to using a cortison injection which is widely used.

What we need in boxing is random testing, if you wish to box anywhere in the world you sign up and agree to the tests, the NSAC probably do catch more drugs cheats than any other comission but where do the majority of the big fights happen... In Nevada

To suggest that the testing is at an appropriate level is foolish when the troubles that other sports have had with it, cycling despite the most stringent of testing still catches a lot of cheats every year and Athletics is still blighted by it

Imperial

Mayweather never admitted to using Xylocaine and denied ever taking it.

100gb are you living in the dark ages coxy, try to 2TB. Don't you work with computers, you need to upgrade your hardware.

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Quite why i'd need to get a terabyte drive is beyond me. I only make things look pretty and build all the functionality, i couldn't really give too monkeys for geeky IT tech stuff!

I asked for a list, produce one as i haven't got the time to go through every single commissions history. Fact is my point still stands that saying they're "world leaders" in anti doping is like saying you're the most intelligent kid in your special class!

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Coxy have you and D4 set yourself up as foes yet, would be nice to see some of us develop foes on here.

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Unfortunately the biochemists that work with the drug producing companies are generally one or more steps ahead of those that work for the testers .That boils down to economics.
Epo,Hgh are nigh on impossible to detect with even the best and most thorough procedures.Boxing's testing at its best is 10 15 years behind that of Cycling and Athletics .Blood profiling is needed for EPO and that is expensive ,time consuming and demands the cooperation of the participants.There are still ways around it anyway
It sounds contradictory but I favour a 2 to 4 year ban for first time offenders.Allows a bit of scope for mitigation etc
Gives an incentive for those who want to whistle blow on the suppliers or other users

Whilst most would expect a fighter who would advocate the use of PED's to be the one benefitting from their use, I can also see the possibility of it becoming a hinderance and danger to some.

For example, Vince Phillips shipped an almost inhumane amount of punishment from Ricky Hatton which had commentators and fight fans alike wondering how on earth he'd managed to stay upright. It was later found that Phillips had something in his system which wasn't legit.

Now, the point is, how much extra damage has Phillips sustained from going those twelve rounds as opposed to say, being pulled out in the eighth? Has he gained any real advantage from staying those extra four rounds?

How many other fighters are going to to use a substance thinking it's giving them an advantage when all it's doing is prolonging the amount of damage being inflicted on them.

I think certain fighters need to be protected from themselves as much a their opponents need protecting.

Any fighter found to be using PEDs should be banned for a minumum of two years and then have a period of probation lasting no less than four years where they are tested regularly (whether in training for a fight or not) and any failure to even sumbit to testing should result in a lifetime ban.

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Someone need only look at Vinnie Paz and question how a Lightweight/LWW can grow to become a big superwid with a physique like a Pro wrestler and not wonder how it happened.

D4thincarnation wrote:How would the boxing fans feel if a lot of the top names of the were banned for life. (not saying that they are all on PEDs it just hypothetical)

Would boxing not suffer for it.

I posted a few thread in the past about boxing being caught for PED use and even after the Floyd Mayweather blood tests smokescreen, highlighted the issue, it got very few responses, people didn't seem to care.

A boxer caught using PED should lose wis prize money and get a ban.

Once you've retired - your name stays pretty safe.

I once dared suggest that RJJ was linked w/ PEDs and was nearly laughed off the old 606 boards. He is, of course - but everyone was happy to believe his explanation that the andro he was on was bought over the counter.

Which clearly makes it OK?!

If Audley were to cheat and was caught on 'Roids - he might be genuinely assassinated.

If a legend - like B-hop or RJJ were to test positive - their legacy would be tarnished- people would be annoyed for a time - but in the long run they'd be safe from the same criticism. Its not right.

King Beer wrote:Gents,

Can't we all just get along?!?!

Seriosuly though, disagreeing is one thing but can we avoid resorting to insults and general bad feeling.

Thanks,

KB

King beer, this is what happens when coxy and d4 get together.
Maybe you should consider having a limit to the number of articles posted on a particular topic per day (subtlely posted or not) You must be a little be sick of this very familiar argument by now.
I know a lot of the posters are

oxring wrote:Once you've retired - your name stays pretty safe.

I once dared suggest that RJJ was linked w/ PEDs and was nearly laughed off the old 606 boards. He is, of course - but everyone was happy to believe his explanation that the andro he was on was bought over the counter.

Which clearly makes it OK?!

If Audley were to cheat and was caught on 'Roids - he might be genuinely assassinated.

If a legend - like B-hop or RJJ were to test positive - their legacy would be tarnished- people would be annoyed for a time - but in the long run they'd be safe from the same criticism. Its not right.

RJJ did purchase them over the counter didnt he?

oxring...Andro was however contained within "Ripped Fuel" and that was his defence.It was available over the counter.
In addition it was not always on the banned list .If you have any other knowledge about RJJ and Ped's then I would be interested to hear them

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D4thincarnation wrote:Who was that guy who got a two year ban for taking something to help him perform sexually?

LaShawn Merritt.

Who was that guy who got a two year ban for taking something to help him perform sexually?

Problem with that is that steroids have the same effect.Its the excess Testesterone etc..Or so I've been told!

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the powerful people, the event planners, promoters, venue owners tv companies dont care if a star boxer is on peds or not and this is the main reason olympic style testing will NEVER be enforced. Unfortunately it may take a death or seriously injury to do so, or maybe a whistleblower ala BALCO

Youarethegreatest wrote:

oxring wrote:Once you've retired - your name stays pretty safe.

I once dared suggest that RJJ was linked w/ PEDs and was nearly laughed off the old 606 boards. He is, of course - but everyone was happy to believe his explanation that the andro he was on was bought over the counter.

Which clearly makes it OK?!

If Audley were to cheat and was caught on 'Roids - he might be genuinely assassinated.

If a legend - like B-hop or RJJ were to test positive - their legacy would be tarnished- people would be annoyed for a time - but in the long run they'd be safe from the same criticism. Its not right.

RJJ did purchase them over the counter didnt he?

He said he did. But if manny tested positive for any anabolic steroid but said "its ok - i bought them over the counter" - who would forgive him? As a professional athlete you have a duty to remain clean.

There's a lot of dodgy products in some OTC preparations - you should still be banned in any case. Yet nothing happened to RJJ.

Oxring..The cynic in me suggests RJJ might be guily but when the product is available at GNC then surely he gets the benefit of the doubt?
Andro wasn't always on the banned list either.Off the top of my head .It was ,then wasn't and now is. Now that's confusing for anyone

That's it - we do give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm a HUGE roy fan - but I still say it tarnishes him a LITTLE. Andro was on the banned list for some commissions - not always. And as you say - it wasn't, was, wasn't again and now is.

The drug testing regulations are complex as anything - if you want to peruse them - check it here:

http://www.ukad.org.uk/pages/athlete-zone/

It does state clearly

"It is the responsibility of the athlete to understand their rights and responsibilities and to be aware of what they are putting in their body. Athletes should seek advice if they have any questions or doubts about their responsibility, medication or treatment."

Which kinda puts the onus on Roy to have stayed clean?

Oxring..I think essentially we agree..As I said about Toney initially I was suprised fans were happy to accept his excuses and twice as well
I say that as a great admirer of Toney the fighter
I worry a bit when I see recent pictures of Roy at Heavy

Take the test manny.. take the damn test

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