Hamilton On a New Level

Bonjourno!

Today it seemed like Hamilton showed he can grow up after an excellent duel with M. Schumacher. He decided today that he was going to race with respect that other drivers that he shares the track with deserve. He played by the rule book and its a shame that he only took the position after a Schumacher mistake, but none the less he did it safely and I respect him for it.

He probably noticed it was possible to over take the 7 time world champion after Jenson Button MBE showed him how to do it with such relative ease.

Credit where its due. A good safe race from Hamilton today. If he can keep this consistancy then he may just string a good run together for the end of the season and become as consistant as German legend Quick Nick Heidfield.

Forza Alonso!

Funny, no mention of Schumachers weaving tactics?? this is what i mean in regards to lewis being treated differently. No one mentions, commentators disagree and stewards dont act when others do such things on the track. BUt when lewis weaves or what ever it is, he is punished. It does appear he IS being treated differently

Schumacher moved twice today blocking Hamilton (Hamilton got punished for doing the same thing to Alonso), forced him onto the grass as well and nothing is done or said. If it was the other way around the knives would be out. I can understand why Hamilton fans feel he gets a hard time from the stewards. No consistency whatsoever. It's one rule for Hamilton and another for the others.

Schumacher in particular has been involved in a variety of incidents this season and has avoided penalties or punishments, same with Kobayashi. However you find no articles criticising them. Hamilton is hated because he is considered a threat. His fans need to be excited about this because the haters wouldn't bother if he was an average driver.

Cheers

i think its outrageous to be honest, its so blatant yet EJ got told someone had said if Lewis had done the same he would have been punished. EJ replied with lets not get into paranoia about it.... HOW can he say that when its so blatant and by the looks of it Lewis isnt fighting it anymore and is just bending over and letting them do him up the a55.

I didnt see Lewis' post race interview but a mate said he seemed a bit funny (not haha). I read his post race comments on the F1.com website and he doesnt even mention Schumachers swerving etc, infact he said he had a good race and had nothing to complain about! Rather odd imo

a penny for hamilton's real thoughts! basically it all boils down to one thing again and its a common theme, a massive mclaren mess up!. They once again inside mclaren were too cocky thinking they would be challenging seb that they completely screwed up hammy's rear wing set up. absolutely shocking and amateurish (not the first time and definitely wont be the last time i will be describing mclaren with). The weaving was blatant and was a direct drive thru penalty but surprise surprise the stewards have done it again. absolutely no consistency and basically lewis will always be on the losing side. What annoys me even more is Button stating 'the overtake on schumacher was one of my greatest moves in motor racing' lol! seriously jenson button is really starting to annoy big time! Not only are the regulations in f1 suited to him but he comes out with rubbish like this. He is the most boring, conservative driver i've ever seen and its a real shame that f1 is about conserving instead of flat out racing. Lewis showed at the end of the race in clean air he is unstoppable. If he was in the red bull there is no doubt that little german finger would be seen less at the end of races. It is embarrassing to hear commentators stating that vettel is equal to senna. He's basically in arguably the greatest car in f1 design with a weak teammate, so its unsurprising he has dominated this season, especially when your rivals are more interested in shooting themselves in the foot. The season is over which is a real shame. If I hear EJ stating this is a classic season with so much excitement, i dont know what i will do!

Yeah i agree. Schumacher was a sitting duck for Jenson.

Vettel ISNT equal to Senna and its insulting to say such a thing. Vettel is a good driver no doubt, but he still has the best car on the grid and his team mate isnt challenging either, infact i think webber is a victim to the regs too.

Schumacher should have been punished today and Mclaren once again mess up the race for their drivers. Its beyond a joke now, both the stewards and mclarens management.

Button couldn't keep up with Schumacher and Hamilton at first. Schumacher started to lose grip and was being super defensive and slowed Hamilton down eventually forcing him onto the grass enabling the overtake by Jenson. Jenson then overtook Schumi whose tyres had gone. Schumi let him through with ease unlike his kamikaze moves on Hamilton.

After ensuring he had ruined Hamilton's race, he let him through unchallenged. A friend of mine believes Schumi held Hamilton to prevent him chasing down Vettel as he was the only one who could do anything about Seb.

I was very impressed with Hamilton yesterday, he showed maturity by not trying a ridiculous move., although he was caught napping by Alonso and Vettel He is beginning to play the percentage game and is learning from previous mistakes. He'll continue to improve in the sport and will be a multiple world champion soon enough.

The Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes team need to scratch this season and start working on next years car because Newey is already working on a car designed to pass all the tests the FIA will set up next year (whilst breaking the rules)

Yeah he was definately caught napping at the restart, bit of a novice error.

Lewis im sure will win another WDC assuming he stays in the sport because at the mo its not looking a very friendly place, there seems to be assassins everywhere. WTF is going on!

Button now thinks he's the Team leader of the 2 lol. He's a slimy toad.

Whilst team orders annoy me, Mclaren's failures are due to the fact that they are not focusing their resources on their lead driver Lewis Hamilton. Red Bull have given Vettel a super reliable car and provide him with better strategies at the expense of Webber, Alonso gets the same treatment with Ferrari but Mclaren try to play it fair at a detriment to their lead driver.

Button cannot lead an F1 team, the last time he did, they went out of business and he was kicked out of the next one he led. He doesn't have the speed or racecraft to lead Mclaren. I've really assessed his performances this season and you will find his wins were in changeable conditions and his overtakes are generally gifted to him bar a few brushes with Massa and Alonso.

He certainly cannot lead a team because he's not quick enough. At the end of the season, normal service would have resumed and Jenson will realise his position in the team.

I've always known the nice guy act from him was fake as demonstrated in Canada when he took out Hamilton.

I admire his belief in his limited abilities though

agree with everything you've said. I've looked at some other forums and there are people who are seriously delusional about the Button overtake on Schumacher including Jenson himself. 'One of my greatest and bravest moves in formula 1' - seriously this guy is beyond a joke! It was completely uncontested and inevitable in regards to the tyre conditions. But this brings me on to another point. We know when everyone is flat out at the start Button doesnt have the pace, but all he does race after race is sit in 5th or 6th, wait for the others to battle each other for positions destroying there tyres and then suddenly he comes into his element and after the first pit stops he usually finds himself in the top 3 (he avoids race confrontation at all costs in the first stint and overtakes people thru pit stop strategy). It basically under the new tyres regulations and with his lack of talent n speed is somehow working a treat in f1 currently and that annoys me immensely. Seriously to this day i dont understand how he has so many fans, hes become so cocky recently and that smile at the end of races is intolerable.

For me it was another example of the officials' bias against Hamilton.

I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories and often ridicule others, but with the number of "incidents" that are occurring lately I can't help but wonder.

Wonder how long the stewards had been "watching" the Schumacher / Hamilton duel, by the time Hamilton complained to his team. Michael made at least 1 blatant double move, which most other drivers would have been penalised for...you can bet your house Hamilton would have been, had he pulled such a move.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have settled for Whitmarsh advising Hamilton to give another driver room to pass.


Now, putting conspiracy theories to one side, I did think Hamilton was very predictable, always trying the same moves at the same points. Also, why on Earth did he not use both KERS and DRS down the main straight? Would that have damaged the engine (due to the "short" 7th gear) or something?

Button got past easily enough, though he benefitted from Schumacher being preoccupied with Hamilton. I'm guessing Button also benefitted from having better tyres, having not been fighting for position.

john wrote:It basically under the new tyres regulations and with his lack of talent n speed is somehow working a treat in f1 currently and that annoys me immensely. Seriously to this day i dont understand how he has so many fans, hes become so cocky recently and that smile at the end of races is intolerable.

Johnny-boy I've already explained to you the new rules have absolutely nothing to do with Button's success.

Funny how he's SO lacking in speed and talent that he found a way past Schumacher where Hamilton couldn't (takes talent to spot an opening and go for it) and soon after caught and passed Alonso (speed factor at work there).

In fact, the only person he couldn't catch is the 2011 champion-elect.


What annoys you SO immensely is that for some inexplicable reason you can't stand the bloke and can't stand to see him being successful. He is one of the LEAST cocky drivers on the grid, always has time for interviews and is always quick to praise and congratulate others, including his team mate.

So, basically, you hate a perfectly nice guy.

your comment - Funny how he's SO lacking in speed and talent that he found a way past Schumacher where Hamilton couldn't

Do you not understand that hamilton and schumachers tyres were destroyed compared to button. If you have tyres that have gone off the cliff you cannot defend in f1 especially in a stupid DRS zone. That overtaking manouevre had nothing to do with speed or talent.

AND yes i do not like button cos hes getting a free ride in my opinion in f1 the best formula of motor sport there is just because of these stupid tyres n regulations which suit his style to a tee. i want to see racing and so should you, not conserving tyres and using DRS artificial zones that require no overtaking skill wotsoever.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Button couldn't keep up with Schumacher and Hamilton at first. Schumacher started to lose grip and was being super defensive and slowed Hamilton down eventually forcing him onto the grass enabling the overtake by Jenson. Jenson then overtook Schumi whose tyres had gone. Schumi let him through with ease unlike his kamikaze moves on Hamilton.

Um...you don't suppose the fact Button got past so easily was because Schumacher was busy defending against Hamilton at the time. You see that kind of thing happen all the time, where 2 cars are duelling and someone sneaks up on them and does them both.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:After ensuring he had ruined Hamilton's race, he let him through unchallenged. A friend of mine believes Schumi held Hamilton to prevent him chasing down Vettel as he was the only one who could do anything about Seb.

Tell your friend they need to stop watching so many conspiracy documentaries.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:I was very impressed with Hamilton yesterday, he showed maturity by not trying a ridiculous move., although he was caught napping by Alonso and Vettel He is beginning to play the percentage game and is learning from previous mistakes. He'll continue to improve in the sport and will be a multiple world champion soon enough.

True enough. My only criticism of Lewis would be that I thought he could have tried a bit more variety and cunning in his overtaking attempts, rather than trying more or less the same moves, lap after lap. If he'd got past Schumi just a few laps earlier he could probably have caught and passed Alonso and got on the podium.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:The Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes team need to scratch this season and start working on next years car because Newey is already working on a car designed to pass all the tests the FIA will set up next year (whilst breaking the rules)

Apparently next year's cars will be pretty similar. The only major change is that blown diffusers will be banned. Button said in his post-race interview that if they can continue to improve this season's car, they'll be in good shape for next season.

Inregards to your criticism of Lewis Dyrewolf. I think lewis was tenative, he stated at the beginning of the race he wanted to finish the race before anything else. So where normally he would have put one up the inside unsuspectingly he was a bit mroe warey of being taken off the track and out of the race again. So in that respect i can see why it took so long to get passed him, after all Schumacher was defending hard.

yesterday hamilton would of made a move if the title was on the line or he was in contention. an aggressive move would of been made and either would of been successful or ended in a DNF. Hamilton has matured and now understands he is in a battle with Jenson, so picking up points is the game which is what jenson is good at. For the bad luck and criticism he has had thrown at him , to be only 9pts off button is hardly end of the world stuff with many races left. In regards to people saying jenson is the new team leader is outrageous being 9pts ahead lol!

John wrote:your comment - Funny how he's SO lacking in speed and talent that he found a way past Schumacher where Hamilton couldn't

Do you not understand that hamilton and schumachers tyres were destroyed compared to button. If you have tyres that have gone off the cliff you cannot defend in f1 especially in a stupid DRS zone. That overtaking manouevre had nothing to do with speed or talent.

AND yes i do not like button cos hes getting a free ride in my opinion in f1 the best formula of motor sport there is just because of these stupid tyres n regulations which suit his style to a tee. i want to see racing and so should you, not conserving tyres and using DRS artificial zones that require no overtaking skill wotsoever.

That's why Button has completed comfortably the most overtakes in F1 this year, seriously blinkered Hamilton fans.. he was unlucky at the weekend but when it comes to the races Button is just as good and a helluva lot smarter. That's why he's ahead in the championship and gave him a good run last year.

NO no no he's ahead on points due to the DNFs from Lewis.

The only reason button has the most overtakes this season is a. because of his poor qualifying and b. because he has found himself at the back of the pack in canada and spa resulting in him overtaking, hrt, virgin, torro rosso, williams etc etc. Overtaking these cars is extremely easy when your in the top 3 cars on the grid. If it wasnt for extremely lucky safety car situations in races like canada then button would not have won. The pack were bunched up and button could work his way thru the field. webber showed how easy it is in china. FACT!

I agree with John.

Bonjourno!

Anybody remember when Lewis tried coming through the field at Belgium 2011? With those pesky... Sauber cars! Hardly the fastest cars on the grid! Oh, and the least said about coming through the field in Monaco the better eh?

All the knocking of Jenson Button MBE does not detract from the failings of Hamilton.

Forza Alonso!

Of course they dont AC. We know when Lewis has failed. But thats the difference between the 2 of us. We acknowledge when lewis has done wrong, we may fight his corner but are willing to accept when he's failed. Unlike you in regards to Alonso or Button.

Bonjourno!

So, you can acknowledge when Hamilton has done wrong BUT you can't accept Jenson Button MBE is the better driver in the Mclaren this season?

Your going to any means to detract from achievements of Jenson Button MBE this year. He has improved immensely to become the all round driving package while other drivers like Webber and Hamilton have stalled in their careers.

This time last year Webber was in contention for a WDC and Hamilton was #1 driver.

How things have changed!

Forza Alonso!

Not at all, this season Button is currently over the last 3 or so races been doing better then Lewis. Cant deny that. But you're saying the complete extreme by saying Button, becuase of this one season that he is a better driver then lewis in all areas.

And i put it to you that its you sir that detracts from the achievement of Lewis Hamilton MBE. ive said good things abotu Button, i may not support him but i will acknowledge when he's done well. But not once have you done the same for Lewis. HOW many times do i need to say that, before it sinks in???

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Bonjourno!

Anybody remember when Lewis tried coming through the field at Belgium 2011? With those pesky... Sauber cars! Hardly the fastest cars on the grid! Oh, and the least said about coming through the field in Monaco the better eh?

All the knocking of Jenson Button MBE does not detract from the failings of Hamilton.

Forza Alonso!

I remember Alonso trying to go past The Frome Fox (Jenson Button MBE) and he failed woefully at that as well. Alessandro, all drivers make mistakes, however people like you are oblivious to (or choose to ignore) the mistakes everyone makes and focus your attention on Hamilton alone. This shows that you cannot make an objective assessment of anything involving Hamilton.

People like you will always find a fault in anything he does whilst ignoring other drivers which demonstrates that your dislike for Hamilton goes far beyond racing.

I know he beat your idol but you need to move on. Your idol has, maybe you should follow his example.

Forza All Formula 1 drivers

Bonjourno!

I think you have missed my point. The many Hamilton fans here including have this flaw to respect others skills on the grid. Blinded by a bias towards their own driver, the very thought of Jenson Button MBE tearing through the field hurts. You come up with umpteen excuses on why it's no skill on his part.

I give a couple of incidents of Hamilton and his midfield skirmishes and automatically I am satin.

Forza Alonso!

You need to read my post again.

I feel Button is better than Vettel but I do not think he's as good as Hamilton or Alonso. That is my position. It hasn't changed.

Cheers

Critical_mass wrote:NO no no he's ahead on points due to the DNFs from Lewis.

No he's not Button has had more mechanical retirements!

Bonjourno!

Monty, i believe your right. I believe both drivers have had 2 DNFs each this year. Therefore they have amassed their respective points from the same number of races.

Forza Alonso!

Fair enough then i take that back.

But as ive said to you already AC its ONE season and its only recently that Button has been peforming better then lewis, I can admit that!

So tell me why cant you admit its only one season?

Can I point out to Alessandro that Lewis Hamilton is also an MBE?

If you're going to use titles, at least be consistent.

Critical_mass wrote:But as ive said to you already AC its ONE season and its only recently that Button has been peforming better then lewis, I can admit that!

Gee, let me think. Do you think it could be anything to do with the fact Hamilton has been in one of the best cars on the grid his entire career, while Button's only been driving good cars since 2009?

In 2009 Button out-performed Lewis in a car that was only ahead of the rest of the field for half the season. Last year was his "bedding-in" season with McLaren, in a car that has essentially been designed around Lewis...and he still finished with the same number of wins and only 26 points behind Hamilton (compared to the 100-odd points Massa finished behind Alonso).

But you miss the point of what i was saying. Im not saying anything about how good the car is.

What i was saying is, IF people are goign to compare and make a judgment on the 2 drivers, then leave it more then 2 seasons!!!! When i said its only recently..... i meant the last handful of races not seasons.

I think he has grown up since his inmcidents earlier this year but the interview he gave after the race was so boring! He's lost some of that fight and that really saddens me. I say bring back the old Lewis and let us see the great overtakes that we have taken for granted from Lewis over the last 5 years.

I think he's realised that if he starts criticising drivers/teams/stewards/FIA then all that will happen is people will turn round on him and be criticising himself.

To be honest he cant do right for doing wrong, by the looks of it. For some reason it APPEARS that there are people who have got it in for him.

Sad really.

Barn, sadly i think its gonna be rare races n situations where you are going to see lewis performing like his old self i.e china. AND that is thanks primarily to the pirelli tyres n the regulations currently in f1. On more durable tyres in a competitive car, i dont believe many get near lewis and he has proved that in his short career. To compete with Fernando in your first year (arguably the most complete driver on the grid) backs up this point.

I'm seriously getting like an old record but the conservation of tyres in f1 nowadays has completely handcuffed and restricted the pure racers in F1 and that is evident in the downward spiral and more prone mistakes n crashes from Lewis. He has become incredibly frustrated and in my opinion is racing in the wrong era of f1. Lewis is old school, pure speed and aggression and those attributes are no longer what is needed in f1 to flourish, especially with the fact stewarding has become incredibly strict with regards to contact. Button on the other hand is finding himself competitive thanks to the conservation and tyre management that plays such a key role in f1 today. Add in the fact that DRS has made overtaking considerably easier has made drivers with less ability such as button perform well. shame.

John wrote: (Lewis) in my opinion is racing in the wrong era of f1. Lewis is old school, pure speed and aggression and those attributes are no longer what is needed in f1 to flourish.

Bonjourno!

Sounds like you have seen the light and we actually agree on something. Lewis will not achieve half as much the hype surrounding him.

In the wrong era? You think Senna and Prost were just racing and not conserving fuel when they had the mighty dominant Mclaren winning 15 out of 16 races? The one Race they lost was the greatest thinking mans race ever. Look it up. Proper thinking drivers do well in every era of this sport. There is more to F1 than driving flat out. Race management my dear!

I could give him the most powerful engine ever, but it always comes down to how you put down that power on the road. If you can't look after your Tyres your nowhere.

Forza Alonso!

Alessandro it seems that you think your talking to little kids with no knowledge or experience of formula 1 past or present. I've seen how formula 1 has changed over the different time periods and i can assure you that Lewis Hamilton's main attributes, style of driving and aggressiveness would of suited driving in another era. Add in the fact that Lewis has been in front of the stewards on multiple occasions also shows that the more stricter stewardship this season also does not suit his aggressive nature and therefore restricts from his natural racers mentality. When Senna was driving as you are well aware, there was more than the odd occasion when contact with another car occured. These do or die overtaking manouevres that Senna produced is what inspired Hamilton growing up, however that aggressive, risk taking approach in my opinion today is being targeted and punished by ludicrous stewarding.

Of course race management is key and always has been, however i feel and i know others feel the same that formula 1 and the powers above have pushed the boundaries to far in trying to provide an entertaining show. F1 is entirely about 'conservation' and not racing. Further to this DRS has reduced the actual racing aspect even further with artifical overtaking and the defender powerless to do anything without being punished. Hamilton is a born racer and wants to race whereas Button is a conservative, smooth driving, scavenger of a racing driver with less speed and natural talent. Look who's benefitting from this new era of formula 1, yes you guessed it JB. I feel that if things are to continue and in 20 years we look back at the past WDC, we are going to see drivers like Hamilton & Kubica and others to come not reaching their true god given potential due to this new conservational period within f1. Shame.

Bring refuelling back i say. Then those thet conserve tyres can run higher fuel loads but be able to go further and have the tyres to suit. Others can run lower fuel loads, more stop, as well as for tyres. But then dont have to look after their tyres as much.

THis would also allow both sides to switch strategy if they wish or need to.

Looks like Lewis is back to the old level.

Another STUPID decision. It was clearly a racing incident. This whole bravado is beyond a joke now.

Bonjourno!

Highly respected F1 expert, Martin Brundle said: -

"[The incident] seriously affected Massa's race. If you've made a mistake and it's affected someone's else - or just his own - it makes a difference."

Hamilton did not learn from Qualifying yesterday. Today he wrecked another drivers race. If you wreck another drivers race you deserve the penalty. Hamilton deserved the penalty.

If it were the other way around, you would want justice against Massa.

Eddie Jordan is right. Hamilton needs a massive reflective boom on his front wing because he clearly does not know where the corners of his car are. This may help him out a lot.

Forza Alonso!

If it was the other way round then Massa wouldnt have got a penalty. It was a slight clip of the rear wheel. Webber clipped Lewis last year who got a puncture. Webber was not punished.

Consistancy once again is lacking in F1... and im starting to believe the conspiracies about stewards having it in for Lewis.

Oh and you say EJ is right? EJ also said he didnt think it was a penalty. But i guess you dont agree with that part of what he said.

F1 is now a Joke!

The incident was not worthy of a penalty. I agree with EJ on that. The result of the incident as a consequence of the incident was worthy of a penalty. Massa had his race ruined.

If Lewis has not done this, the Stewards would not have penalised him. He would of been left alone by the stewards. He is the reason for his own downfall today.

After Monza, he seemed to have turned a corner, but this weekend saw 2 incidents and the stewards were right.

They must continue to throw the book at him until he realises that its not his god given right to win at everybodys expense.

The point is that others have clipped other cars and ruined their races or slammed thier cars into others and got away with not being penalised.

As for Massa - ive no sympathy for him, he's allowing him to used as a puppet. His inability to get out of 12th place says it all really.

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:The incident was not worthy of a penalty. I agree with EJ on that. The result of the incident as a consequence of the incident was worthy of a penalty. Massa had his race ruined.

If Lewis has not done this, the Stewards would not have penalised him. He would of been left alone by the stewards. He is the reason for his own downfall today.

After Monza, he seemed to have turned a corner, but this weekend saw 2 incidents and the stewards were right.

They must continue to throw the book at him until he realises that its not his god given right to win at everybodys expense.

Wow, someone should tell your idol Alonso that. A Team mate was asked to crash to allow him win a race.

Today's incident was a racing incident, Schumacher, Kobayashi, Webber have been guilty of similar incidents and have got no penalties. The stewards need to be consistent. Great drive by Hamilton to come 5th in spite of the drive through and compromised race strategy.

EXACTLY BOR!!!

This is NOT just about whether Lewis is in the wrong or right when something like this happens. Its also about consistancy and the complete and utter lack of!

I might add - another COMPLETE FCK UP by Mclaren in not getting Lewis out for one more run in Q3.

Things could have been v different today.

I'm more critical of his idiocy in qualifying than this, which I agree on its own was just a racing incident.

Taken together though they do not indicate a driver in control of himself. Massa was right to say what he did, and didn't he reveal something when he said maybe Hamiltons Dad would understand.

Felipe Massa is an embarrassment to f1 - End of! Seriously how slow was Button, Alonso, Webber & Massa in the first stint. It was like they were just rolling out the carpet for Vettel to just stroll to the title, it was incredible. Hamilton after receiving a poor start and taking time to pass the Mercedes' just showed his pure speed and class to close on to the back of that group like they were backmarkers. If Hamilton had been in Button's position after the first lap there is no way Vettel would of been able to just walk away. The fact Hamilton got a drive-thru was a disgrace, this is supposedly formula 1, its called motor racing - there is going to be contact as there has always been throughout the history of the sport. To go punishing every driver for contact is ludicrous and is killing the sport as driver are being more reserved and thoughtful in the fear of being punished. The fact rosberg avoided punishment for missing turn 2, gaining positions, whereas Hamilton followed the rules and was impeded by doing so, just emphasises the bias against Lewis and the poor, poor stewarding this season. Massa isnt fast enough for ferrari and is a poor racing driver with no consistancy whatsoever. He is like Webber at RB, a poor teammate who understands he is no match for his teammate and is there to just pick up a pay check. F1 needs to remove the deadwood from the grid and have more drivers like Hamilton. On any given sunday the excitment and television coverage during the race focuses on Hamilton.