Springbok, injury conundrum.

South Africa’s three greatest exponents of line out play and masters of the tight phases are now injured.

Bakkies Botha is currently on the injury list with a recurring Achilles tendon which has been hindering him for some time now.

Andries Bekker who had surgery on his ankle in July is also not available.

On sunday Victor Matfield left the field with a hamstring injury that will see him miss South Africa’s next match at the world cup against Fiji. It appears to be a recurring injury as well.

Now in the past 8 years South Africa has been touted as the best exponents of the line out by some distance, and mostly due to these three players. That has influenced our game plan, it is widely known that South Africa has the ability to use the boot of Morne Steyn and Francois Steyn to attain vast territorial gains with their kicking and thus compete against any line out in the world for possession.

The problem facing the Springboks now, what will they do if Matfield and Botha remain unavailable once the knock out rounds begin?

Johann Muller and Danie Rossouw will surely be the first choice locks available and although both are very good in the tight exchanges and physical enough at the breakdowns, they are not in the superior class of the three injured players.

This begs the question of whether the springbok coaching staff will wisen up to the fact, that a major strength of gaining possession will now be severely compromised, and there for a change in approach may be needed. It is all good and well to kick possession away into the opposition’s territory when you have a decent chance of regaining the possession, but as was clearly the case on Sunday South Africa was not even attempting to compete on opposition throw ins.

Will Pieter de Villiers and his coaching staff be wisened to the fact that the springboks will have to retain possession for longer phases and rely on some creativity to gain territory and not use the boot?

For me it is clear that if we continue with the status quo during the knock out rounds, we will have limited our opportunities to score tries from first phase possession which has been a major contributor to us keeping the score board ticking over.

The other side of the coin is that we might not be able to rely on kicking penalty goals to win matches, as were seen this weekend kickers were struggling to get used to conditions and the new ball being used at the world cup. Now admittedly Morne Steyn had a very good kicking performance against Wales and didn’t miss a kick, but what happens when he has an off day and added to that we have limited opportunities to score tries?

I sincerely hope that the coaching staff of the springboks are aware of this and will have a plan “B” to consider.

Certainly hope so. I say play Lambie. Maybe a side like:



Tendai Mtawarira

Bismark du Plessis

Jannie du Plessis

Dannie Russow

Johann Muller

Schalk Burger

Heinrich Brussow

Pierre Spies

Fourie du Preez

Patrick Lambie

Brian Habana

Juan de Jongh

Jaque Fourie

Gio Aplon

Francois Steyn



Guthro Steemcamp, John Smit, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Ruan Pienaar, Morne Steyn, JP Pieterson



I'd nearly think that Chiliboy Ralepelle would be worth having in your squad but if your missing Bakkies and Matfield, having your leader there is a must.

Stag, I would rather see Alberts in place of Spies, although Brussow had a good game, his performance will be so much better if he has someone in the mold of Juan Smith at 7 (your 6), and Burger at 8, Willem alberts is much more in the mold of Juan smith than Spies, he is just not physical enough.

Spies is a great runner in an open game, but not when things are tight.

As far as Gio Aplon is concerned, I would rather have Francois hougaard, he is as good as aplon but a little tougher.

Will they also give up on Habana and put on Hougaard who looked much more composed on attack and defence. Habana seemed to be coming back in terms of performance but yesterday the old demons seemed to come back to haunt him. Admittedly there were swirly wind conditions that made it difficult to catch the high ball but he looked a bit shaky.

It´s a good point you raise though with respect to the lineout. To lose those two giants of the game for SA is a big enough loss to the team but is a vital loss in terms of tactics. The Steyns were playing yesterday but maybe Aplon at fullback and Hougaard offer more options on attack for SA and a ball in hand approach is a better option for SA.

This doesn´t mean throwing the ball wide at every opportunity. SA can try to find gaps up the middle and pierce their way through the line with the likes of Fourie with running good lines and angles and then using the speedsters like Aplon in support to find space in behind the line.

But why do I get the feeling that the win against Wales will see PDV take the conservative approach and stick with plan A. Maybe if they had lost, it´d have encouraged more a plan B approach, but I think against the likes of Fiji and Samoa, trying a more expansive game plays into the hands of those teams more than a traditional grinding, territory game.

And the more the Boks play that game, the more they´re likely to stick to it come the knockout side of the comp, regardless of whether those key players are back for SA. And that´d be a shame because it´s not such a leap of faith to play that style of game for SA. They play it in Super rugby to great effect.

Well, to be fair, I think to react to the loss of Matfield, or any player, during a match is different than game planning from the beginning. As you said, the big question is whether the Boks staff can create a credible Plan B. The problem is Matfield and Botha have been there so long, I wonder if anyone really has another plan. Having a solid, locked down line out is such a huge advantage thant thier loss is huge. Good luck, mate.

This is the fifteen I would love to see as a run on against Fiji, obviously injuries taken into consideration.

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Johann Muller
5. Danie Rossouw
6. Brussow
7. Willem Alberts
8. Schalk Burger
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Patrick Lambie
11. Habana
12. Francois Steyn
13. Jaque fourie
14. JP Pietersen
15. Morne Steyn.

I think Habana is SA's Shane Williams and both are largely living off reputations at the moment.

Biltong
In the Ab test at Port elizabeth, Matfield went down mid way through the second half and had attention to his hamstrig,I thought he was just getting his forwrads a chance to have a blow and reset the defence.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Biltong
In the Ab test at Port elizabeth, Matfield went down mid way through the second half and had attention to his hamstrig,I thought he was just getting his forwrads a chance to have a blow and reset the defence.

No, i think this injury has been going on for quite some time now.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Biltong
In the Ab test at Port elizabeth, Matfield went down mid way through the second half and had attention to his hamstrig,I thought he was just getting his forwrads a chance to have a blow and reset the defence.

When everyone was up in arms about the B team, they team doctor did say Matfield is recovering from a hamstring strain. The same injuries listed with other players also came up a few times, so it makes me think they were all really injured.

Matfield will be ready for knockout stages if we get there.Muller is reliable enough to secure Bok throw ins but i dotn know if the Bok lineout is a threat without Matfield .

think this is a slight blessing in disguise coz Big Vic gets time off and wont have to play those hard hitting fijians

This surely has to be the wake up call that PdV needed w.r.t. finally dropping John Smit for Bismark. The only reason why Smit starts is for his experience and has been living off that team talk he gave in the middle of that game against Fiji 4 years ago.

Where was his experience and the rallying cry when we needed it yesterday? Granted he had an ok game but there's no denying the impact Bismark had on our game and his introduction is largely why we won yesterday.

I'm sure many will say his experience is crucial now with the loss of Matfield, in that case why not bring back Francois Pienaar into our backrow?

I don't think Francois Pienaar's wiife would agree.

Matfield & JDV are only set to miss 2 pool games max.

Bakkies looks like he is out for the tournament... personally I think Bakkies is a bigger loss to die bokke then Matfield would be.. because SA do not possess a player like him in their side... i.e. the enforcer.

Another problem SA need to solve is their alternative jumper... Juan Smith was an excellent lineout operator at the back but SA have done little to replace him in his absence... don't think either Schalk or Alberts are the answer... both are a little chunky and on the shorter side of jumpers to be a real answer.

Also, against Fiji you need big hitters.. SA must start with Bismaarck, Schalk, James & Alberts... they need to be at their physical best. Smit can sit this one out... perhaps until the Samoa game. There are enough leaders in the team with their 800 odd caps so it won't be a rudderless ship so to speak.

My team for fiji would be

Steenkamp, Bismaarck, CJ, Russouw, Muller, Schalk, Louw, Alberts, Fioure, James, Hougaard, Frans, Fioure, Pietersen, Lambie.

A bit of a test for Lambie if he gets selected but he has the game... just may find the physical stuff a little uncomfortable.

Wasn`t there doubt about Matfield ,pre -match?Bakkies sounds like a non starter however.Achilles problems can be nasty,Your hardest match over,get the team playing together.By the time you reach the final you will be ready for France or OZ.
Loved the Tv experts advice,tighten up,be patient,or start going wide talk about stating the obvious.
On one of the post Match threads,Wales lost because,Hook missed a sitter of a penalty goal.Apart from the fact NO kick is a sitter certainly not at Wellington.Apart from the early disputed kick,both sides tried and missed drops.Barnes should have gone to the TMO,he`s done it before,BUT Wales failed because when they were in the red zone.They took the safe options,pick and go ,work the blindside,there was some pretty aimless kicking and handling by both sides.Delivery from the breakdown by Wales,late on was painful to watch.Setting ,watching for the next phase,bang turned over.When quick ball to the openside or,take into contact and go again was the answer.
Of the Matches i watched,All Blacks were never in trouble,and sorry that was way short of the A side.Australia,and France always had the fire power to beat limited opposition.Ire land were steady,Scotland in patches good.
England did just enough.Boks thought it was going to be a walk in the park,two 5 minute spells apart were dreadfull.In decision,dropped balls,no dominance at scrum time,edged in the loose,and lineout.
Boks were so desperate Morne Steyn actually passed a Ball.for them they can only get better.
We`ve only had one match each for most sides so nothing much to worry about.Boks need to sharpen up versus Fiji and Samoa.
What a fillip to the RWC if those two sides go through and Boks and wales fail to qualify.

emack2 wrote:What a fillip to the RWC if those two sides go through and Boks and wales fail to qualify.

Me thinks for both of them to go throguh it will have to happen in a fairytale.

emack2 wrote:What a fillip to the RWC if those two sides go through and Boks and wales fail to qualify.

Me thinks for both of them to go through it will have to happen in a fairytale.

biltongbek - You think Wales are going to fall to Samoa?

FA, I was trying to figure that one out this morning for my sportsguru predictions and although Samoa has done well against the Wallabies they have not consistently performed against them, whereas Wales compete well in recent years with Australia, if you then add the fact that Wales know they have to win that match to qualify for the quarters and listening to the experts on Masterplan, I would think Wales will win by about 8~10 points

Morning Biltong, fa, Alan...
As you'd expect I'm going to back Samoa to win that one. Wales I think will get 'too much' out of the SA loss and will have an inner level of confidence that possibly isnt fully justified.

Samoa have gained a huge high from the Oz match and momentum is gathering for them here in NZ. The support for Samoa against anyone will probably be unprecedented for a non AB side, particularly in Hamilton.

Wales will be hit hard. Really hard. And after a tough match against SA already Wales might be feeling it a bit already. Fiji has an ideal warmup. Watching everyone play, tomorrow against Namibia, then Wales, although the period Wed- Sun is a little short, but Namibia shouldn't take too much out of them.

For Samoa beating Wales and a likely qualifying if they do it will mean the world for them. As a country, as professionals, for the team etc etc. And they're like Oz, if they're up they'll be right up there in the clouds.

If Wales manage to out 'technique' them then I think that's there best chance but make no mistake, Samoa are here to play.

I agree taylor Wales might just be going into that match thinking we matched the Boks so we should easily beat the Samoans.The Boks didnt hit them as hard as the Samoans will ,those guys are unforgiving .

In our last 4 games we've all played extremely physical opposition so we'll be ready for the Samoans, who would be around the same level as that opposition. They (the Wales team) know exactly what they're up against so you don't have to tell them. The game against an under-strength Aus is a while ago now. We won't be under-strength and they won't be catching us cold and they will have had less rest after a walk in the park against the Namibians so things look to be in our favour right now; so if we lose this game I will cut my own balls off.

Back to the topic, SA are too class and have too many experienced players to be affected by this as a team. I expect them to get 15 points from their 3 remaining games and also cruise past Ireland (or Italy) in the quarters. France, NZ and Aus would have caused you some great difficulty regardless of you missing two of your best players or not.

AUS Nz would have nailed us the way we played on saturday . Somewhere in the region of 36-6. France would have probably won if they played at their best not the disaster they had against Japan who took the fight to them

nottins_jones

That may have been a under strength Aus side but it still featured a host of players that would walk into the Wales team I'm afraid. This Samoa team is for real and it will take a similar performance as seen on Saturday to see them off.

The Namibia game will be a walk in the park for Samoa... it will just be a warm up for the weekend. It will be a tune up game, a confidence raiser and I can't see anything bar a rout where they will make wholesale changes at halftime to rest their top players.

This is going to be as close to a home RWC as Samoa will ever get and I'm sure they will make it feel like an away match for Wales... its going to be rather hostile I fear but certainly will be one hell of a match... a very tight call.

I can't remember the Aus team, but out of curiousity who is the host of players that would walk into the Wales team???

I think it's better to have played a top team like SA first up rather than a team that's failed to register a single win in RWC history. Our players know what they're up against on sunday and know what they have to do. Nobody is taking Samoa lightly.

ROcky Elsom,Matt Giteau,James O Connor ,Adam Ashley Cooper, ...will genia played 35min so dont know if i should include him

nottins_jones wrote: Nobody is taking Samoa lightly.

Thats good Nottins, nor should you. Just not sure you realise how good they've got recently. Did you see Manu's brother Alesana Tuilagi's performance against Oz? That was huge....

Bullsbok wrote:ROcky Elsom,Matt Giteau,James O Connor ,Adam Ashley Cooper, ...will genia played 35min so dont know if i should include him

Giteau, not so sure he's been terrible and we already have 2/3 good fly-halves. The others would get into our team definitely. Not really a host of players though as one of your compatriots called it. We wouldn't want to un-settle our team too much either, so AAC would get in at 13 - the guy is class and can score tries from which ever position he plays. Genia would also start too .

Taylor, I know what Samoa are capable of. I see a few of their players play quite regulary too( the ones in Europe). It's ironic you're referring back to that game though, I think I can recall you dismissing it almost.

regarding the original topic....

to me, the SA subs who came on and made the impact to win them the game against Wales were Du Plessis/Alberts/Hougaard.

I would have thought they would all start against Fiji? If Habanas not 100% then put Hougaard on the wing, I think Du Preez is too important for SA for him to not be starting scrum half at the moment. Is Hougaard a SH by nature (he seems to play everywhere across the backline)? Either way, Id think SA need to get him and players like lambie/aplon involved a bit more in the backline later on in the game against fiji as they could open them up there if they can soften up the pack for the first 60.

Alberts/Burger/Brussouw to start in the back row. Du Plessis surely has to start at 2 now? He was magnificent when he came on.

Hougaard is a SH but plays a lot for the bulls as a wing due to Du Preez so he has developed into a bit of a utility player.

I'd drop Brussow for the fiji game... put on Louw and field an fearsome backrow with Alberts & Burger.

Habana is 100%, he's just past it I'm afraid...and I'm a WP fan so it hurts to admit it... and he was talking about getting the top try scoring record again just the other week... total jokes.

fa0019 wrote:Hougaard is a SH but plays a lot for the bulls as a wing due to Du Preez so he has developed into a bit of a utility player.

I'd drop Brussow for the fiji game... put on Louw and field an fearsome backrow with Alberts & Burger.

Habana is 100%, he's just past it I'm afraid...and I'm a WP fan so it hurts to admit it... and he was talking about getting the top try scoring record again just the other week... total jokes.

Ah, in which case, drop Habana, tell him hes a useless knobber and to sort it out (Hes a ridiculously talented rugby player, and a south african, 2 types of person who dont like to be told theyre rubbish).

Hougaard on the wing, and I understand not risking Brussouw against Fiji, theres probably no need.

Steyn to centre to partner fourie and lambie/aplon at fullback?

Thats a rather scary back row lets get physical, physical

I'd play James at 10 actually... he would love the physical challenge. Lambie can handle himself but James is the man to play pivot against a big side IMO.

Wouldn't have a problem with Lambie starting fullback though.

In terms of Habana.... once your speed goes... it goes and if you are a pace based winger then you number is up... Its time to move over for the large number of youthful speedsters die bokke has at its disposal...but not necessarily on tour. He should go and earn his pension in Europe whilst his name still draws interest (not trying to be disrespectful... just trying to say there are better options for SA and if he leaves now he can secure his future at a far higher personal benefit then if he leaves when he's 30+).