Suck it up and enjoy the RWC.

I feel somewhat relieved to see that South Africa is for once amazingly not be the target of ridicule and mockery, but on the other hand mildly frustrated. Here are some excerpts from some “Expert” opinions on the New Zealand Herald panel regarding this weekend’s play.

Chris Rattue

“please, please, please - if there is a sporting God, don't let England win the World Cup with repeats of their effort against the barging Argies”

“We're not all England naysayers down here and a few of us actually enjoy snippets of the juggernaut rugby they play, as a contrast to our hopelessly naughty, frivolous attitude to the mighty sport."

"England, however, are all launching pad and no rocket”

“The joke is on England so far. When England wear white, their stumbling game looks vaguely noble because it is their way of playing and they are proud of that.”

Full article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-experts/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503159&objectid=10751120

Peter Bills

“An alien newly arrived from another world in time to watch the first weekend of the 2011 Rugby World Cup would have drawn a singular conclusion from the flurry of rugby activity.”

“our friend would have watched New Zealand score four tries in the opening 32 minutes against Tonga on Friday night.”

“Had he then turned his attention to England's match against Argentina in Dunedin the next night, he would have been confused. Just one try and only a single line break in 80 minutes from England?"

"Ah, his little scrawny face would have smiled. "I've got it - they are playing two different games."

“This abomination of a display was a disgrace to the good name of rugby football. Doesn't anyone in England understand that you can now play some cracking rugby under these much welcomed new law interpretations?”

Full article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-experts/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503159&objectid=10751108


Getting to the point of my article though, it seems to me that this “superiority attitude” about their game play is infecting the media, pundits and fans alike across continents like a virus.

The first thought in my mind was that game plans are horses for courses, it is very easy for the All Blacks being the superior team and skilled individuals that they are to play wide and entertain crowds with their interpretation of “exciting” rugby, and also depending on who your opponents are for the match.

It is also acceptable for England to play a more conservative arm wrestle with a team as physical as Argentina, who didn’t allow them to go guns “ablazing”

It is also true that some teams hit a competition on their feet running whilst others may warm up to some form.

I have seen as recent as a month ago, where NZ took on the South African approach to control possession and gain territory to strike outside with their midfield and come back in Brisbane against a very good Australian side.

I have seen a New Zealand team run amok in SA during this years Tri Nation breaking the gain line and beating defenders only to be stopped by cover defenders.

I saw a South African team on Sunday make over 100 tackles on the Welsh team, many a time restricting them to no gain line advantage for more than 7 phases, and then use only but a few opportunities to score tries.

For me this criticism of how teams play the game is totally unwarranted, it is creating a mass hysteria about what is good about Rugby Union and what is seen as dire game play.

Rugby is about structure, defence, control, and only when all those aspects are in place, can we put the cherry ontop with exciting back line play. I am sure for the true rugby fanatic, all of these aspects are entertaining.

There is another sport called Rugby League with all the running you can stomach, the more we are trying to convince ourselves that we must be more like Rugby League, the more we are losing the unique identity this great sport has.

Rugby Union has always been about having place for the big weightlifters of this world, the small fast and cunningly quick thinking players, the middle of the road, not too fast, but can’t pick up a car either players.

So once and for all I would like to make my position clear on this, if you do not like the way teams play the game, then simply stop watching them, but at least until NZRU is running world rugby and can convince enough member countries to totally eradicate mauls, rucks, kicks, pick and drives and merge Rugby Union with Rugby league, suck it up and enjoy the world cup.

Hear bloody hear.

great post Biltong - rugby union is not all about scoring plenty of tries although it is a neccessity to score some if you want to win games!

Spot on, those were the exact words I said to my wife last night

Yeah if only England had let Argentina release their "lelectric" back 3 rather than forcing them to commit 15 penalties.

RubyGuby wrote:Spot on, those were the exact words I said to my wife last night

Well, I've now read both the articles and the responses. Credit to the Kiwis - most responses to the articles were negative.

It isn't rugby reporting, it's slag off an opponent. It means that there will be less impetus to congratulate the ABs if they win, and much, much more mickey taking if they lose.

Oops, that wasn't meant for you Cari but sense of humour appreciated - You're probably the only one that got it

Yeah, I was a bit slow on the uptake.

RubyGuby wrote: Oops, that wasn't meant for you Cari but sense of humour appreciated - You're probably the only one that got it

Sounds like your wife got it. I bet she wouldnt be happy with a semi

etc etc

Completely agree. Can't stand it when people preach about how the game should be played. Scrums, lineouts, drop goals, penalties, line kicking etc. are all part of the game. If you don't like it watch league.

Play to your strengths.

I was absolutely enthralled in the W/SA game. You could have put the welsh team in SA jerseys and nobody would have known which team was supposed to be which.

The beauty of rugby, the porkers can huff and puff and the prettyboys can twinkle their toes.

Comfort, I said this previously on another thread, but it is applicable to this thread as well.

Every person that watched the Wales and SA game thought it was a cracking match.

Wales had the possession and ran their guts out, SA did the defending for most part of that match and with few opportunities got their tries.

Neither team would have entertained if the opposite immovable or indestructable force wasn't present.

Went to game Saturday.
No complaints from neutral or supporters
A real armwrestle.
Thats rugby.
Could just as easily been a tryfest!

The thing with ethe England is that it was played badly because of poor execution of skills as much as any intent on the part of England. I dont think theres any question that Argentina didnt want a free flowing game, but ther insuation that England delibertaly ruined the game and refused to use their back 3's running is ridiculous.

well said that man!!!

Union is for all shapes and sizes, and all types of play

SA beat NZ in the Tri nations by only scoring drop goals and penalties. Do any saffers care that there were no tries scored? I doubt it. I thought it was a very enjoyable game too.

damage_13 wrote:
Union is for all shapes and sizes, and all types of play

Thats what his wife says too...

Unfortunately she is English after all so no arguments there

You often see a player break through the defence, but he is stopped short of the try line as for example with Wales this weekend, does that run become less entertaining than the run that ends in a try?

Or is it the fact that you can watch a player in slow motion dotting down the ball behind the whitewash that gives you the orgasm?

Really doesn't make sense when someone reckons a match with 8 tries is better than a game with 3 tries.

I think it depends on whether you're a rugby purist or whether you need the end to end stuff all the time. I've watched many a fascinating 9-3 rugby match and in fact many a boring 36-29 matches as the old Magners used to throw up (pun intended) - I just prefer quality rugby and sometimes that occurs irrespective of the scoreline or number of trys scored.

biltongbek wrote:You often see a player break through the defence, but he is stopped short of the try line as for example with Wales this weekend, does that run become less entertaining than the run that ends in a try?

Or is it the fact that you can watch a player in slow motion dotting down the ball behind the whitewash that gives you the orgasm?

Really doesn't make sense when someone reckons a match with 8 tries is better than a game with 3 tries.

are you REALLY a saffie..?

on rugby365 its all they care about and somehow think other rugby (English) is at a lower level just because they don't play the optional defence try fests that is the SH club top tiers

Absolutely spot on biltong :applause:

Err, and Bills has ignored the fact that NZ were playing a Tonga team featuring a defence that had more holes in it than a colandar.

I also love the way Kirwan is praised for Japan's efforts. They lost, and quite convincingly over the whole 80 minutes.

Lots of tries is actually a sign of a bad game. Lots of tries usually happens in either one sided games or games between two weaker teams such as the Fiji Namibia game. A great game of rugby will have everything, Scrums, lineouts, kicking, running, Good defense, tries, drop goals, tension, lead changing hands etc.

None of this you have to run all the time and score lots of tries for it to be a good game. That philosophy really annoys me.

That first guy is an idiot for branding "the English" as responsible for the black kit.

Yep, I am. The fact is I like tries, but it is like eating a chocolate, the first three bites causes a sensation in your mouth, the rest you stomach because it is there.

I liken rugby league to a child getting a bag full of sweets, halfway through the pack they still eat, becuase it is there and it is sweets, but yet the sense of satisfaction has long gone because their mouths stopped appreciating the sensation of sugar after the third sweet.

Rugby Union is like being an adult, you savour the three blocks of chocolate, then put the rest away for when you require the satisfaction of another sweet.

Running rugby without defence is boring, look at what made the Japan match so exciting, they had to work very hard for their points, and that was exciting.

You enjoy the leaving do last week Bilton - I was there but I didn't want to come over to chat before the Wales game

I made a similiar post only last week: https://www.606v2.com/t13119-fatties-going-to-take-the-ball-and-not-give-it-back-for-80mins#434714

Well i didn't chat throughout the Wales match, I was too tense and everytime I thought (in my distraught mind) that Barnes made a poor call, I didn't want to risk getting my frustrated and biased opinions down on here until after I calmed down.

That's why when the springboks play I first calm down, become and think about things, then i will post.

There's been a fantastically snotty amount of "journalism" about generally - usually by (sorry, but it's true) southern hemisphere hacks who have absolutely no knowledge of the Rabo/Jeff whatsoever, much less can make an informed opinion about how domestic form of any of the players might feasibly translate into test rugby. I scan the NZ Herald, SM Herald and SABC every morning and some of the plop ladled out has been shocking.

To comment that "the English style of play is ..." and "the Welsh always do..." is fatuous, lazy nonsense and is inescapably a substitute for knowing anything about the players, the professional clubs or recent international performances. One 'article' about the Scotland team in the Sydney Morning Herald was concocted solely to take the p!ss out of the team. How worthy.

Hopefully we can move from the collective brainfart of cliches in the rest of the pool matches and realise (a) all top 10 teams are nervous as hell at the beginning of this tournament and inevitably (with the apparent exception of Wales) will take some time to get into their stride; and (b) the mid-tier nations will have been sizing up these earlier pool matches for three months with the resultant battles that have occurred.

No excuse for either cr@p rugby or cr@p journalism.
All participants are paid professionals.

George Carlin wrote: One 'article' about the Scotland team in the Sydney Morning Herald was concocted solely to take the p!ss out of the team. How worthy.

Can you repost here so we can all laugh at them please ?

Nice one Biltong. SA Wales has been by far the best game of the tournament so far. SA were not allowed to play at their best by a spirited Welsh side but they managed to grind out a win. As a neutral I found myself nervous over the result and I didn´t really care who won.

I agree that this dismissive attitude of other sides is just trying to drum up a superior attitude amongst local readers. It´s like the poaching nonsense or the cheating claims spread across the other side of the globe, trying to undermine the performances of other teams with a good record. It also smacks a little of insecurity on the part of the NZ press. Results or performances are not going the way of the ABs so try to kick some sand in other teams´faces so they can´t see your own faults.

Increasingly I tend to neglect the media reports around the globe and focus on opinion on rugby forums. There´s your fair share of keyboard warriors but enough people with insight, humility and objectivity to get a far better understanding of the teams involved than by reading a rag focused on creating controversy or catering to lowest-common denominator opinion in order to shift the most amount of copies.

nottins wrote:

I made a similiar post only last week: https://www.606v2.com/t13119-fatties-going-to-take-the-ball-and-not-give-it-back-for-80mins#434714

Yeah that was very unfair, our forwards were quite happy to let the Argies take the ball off them at every breakdown

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Nice one Biltong. SA Wales has been by far the best game of the tournament so far. SA were not allowed to play at their best by a spirited Welsh side but they managed to grind out a win. As a neutral I found myself nervous over the result and I didn´t really care who won.

I agree that this dismissive attitude of other sides is just trying to drum up a superior attitude amongst local readers. It´s like the poaching nonsense or the cheating claims spread across the other side of the globe, trying to undermine the performances of other teams with a good record. It also smacks a little of insecurity on the part of the NZ press. Results or performances are not going the way of the ABs so try to kick some sand in other teams´faces so they can´t see your own faults.

Increasingly I tend to neglect the media reports around the globe and focus on opinion on rugby forums. There´s your fair share of keyboard warriors but enough people with insight, humility and objectivity to get a far better understanding of the teams involved than by reading a rag focused on creating controversy or catering to lowest-common denominator opinion in order to shift the most amount of copies.

You mean they cater to The Grey Ghost?

Talking of the ghost, he has been scarce today.

George Carlin wrote:There's been a fantastically snotty amount of "journalism" about generally - usually by (sorry, but it's true) southern hemisphere hacks who have absolutely no knowledge of the Rabo/Jeff whatsoever, much less can make an informed opinion about how domestic form of any of the players might feasibly translate into test rugby. I scan the NZ Herald, SM Herald and SABC every morning and some of the plop ladled out has been shocking.

To comment that "the English style of play is ..." and "the Welsh always do..." is fatuous, lazy nonsense and is inescapably a substitute for knowing anything about the players, the professional clubs or recent international performances. One 'article' about the Scotland team in the Sydney Morning Herald was concocted solely to take the p!ss out of the team. How worthy.

Hopefully we can move from the collective brainfart of cliches in the rest of the pool matches and realise (a) all top 10 teams are nervous as hell at the beginning of this tournament and inevitably (with the apparent exception of Wales) will take some time to get into their stride; and (b) the mid-tier nations will have been sizing up these earlier pool matches for three months with the resultant battles that have occurred.

No excuse for either cr@p rugby or cr@p journalism.
All participants are paid professionals.

True enough. Though those comments aren't hemisphere specific - witness the cliches coming out of the NH about "defence optional" SuperXV etc.

Hacks happen, more's the pity.

biltongbek wrote:Talking of the ghost, he has been scarce today.

Hes in Eastern Europe apparently. Possibly travelling back or unable to find an Internet willing to have him

yeah that the Japanese were brilliant given their erm ..shortcomings.

Did you see their line outs and passing? super quick and while thy made a few handling errors in the first half it was impressive to see.

As was their ball fetching.

Maybe they identified him and confiscated his electronic media.

GG in his defence can talk about rugby. Just gets all too easily distracted talking about referees and anything to do with England.

e.g. Hey GG, want to come down to the pub?
Well you´ll only find Eastern Europeans serving there. All the Kiwis who pulled a pint have gone to join the England centres.

Hey GG want to go see a flick with me. There´s one on at the moment that´s supposed to be a laugh.
I´ll tell you what´s a laugh. Barnes' ruling at the breakdown against SA. Had me in stitches... literally.

Hey GG who do you think will win the US Open today?
Nadal has lost 5 finals to him this year. But you´d have to go back to 2003 to find anything decent England has won. And only then because they got some dodgy calls in their favour.

But what is in common with GG when he gets in this frame of mind and these sorry so-called journos who spout nothing but clichés? They should all be ignored. The more you respond to them or draw attention to them, the louder their voice gets.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

George Carlin wrote:There's been a fantastically snotty amount of "journalism" about generally - usually by (sorry, but it's true) southern hemisphere hacks who have absolutely no knowledge of the Rabo/Jeff whatsoever, much less can make an informed opinion about how domestic form of any of the players might feasibly translate into test rugby. I scan the NZ Herald, SM Herald and SABC every morning and some of the plop ladled out has been shocking.

To comment that "the English style of play is ..." and "the Welsh always do..." is fatuous, lazy nonsense and is inescapably a substitute for knowing anything about the players, the professional clubs or recent international performances. One 'article' about the Scotland team in the Sydney Morning Herald was concocted solely to take the p!ss out of the team. How worthy.

Hopefully we can move from the collective brainfart of cliches in the rest of the pool matches and realise (a) all top 10 teams are nervous as hell at the beginning of this tournament and inevitably (with the apparent exception of Wales) will take some time to get into their stride; and (b) the mid-tier nations will have been sizing up these earlier pool matches for three months with the resultant battles that have occurred.

No excuse for either cr@p rugby or cr@p journalism.
All participants are paid professionals.

True enough. Though those comments aren't hemisphere specific - witness the cliches coming out of the NH about "defence optional" SuperXV etc.

Hacks happen, more's the pity.

Touche, KiwiRD.

And I suppose the world would be a duller place without Rattue, Barnes and S. Jones to make us all feel measured and talented.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:GG in his defence can talk about rugby. Just gets all too easily distracted talking about referees and anything to do with England.

e.g. Hey GG, want to come down to the pub?
Well you´ll only find Eastern Europeans serving there. All the Kiwis who pulled a pint have gone to join the England centres.

Hey GG want to go see a flick with me. There´s one on at the moment that´s supposed to be a laugh.
I´ll tell you what´s a laugh. Barnes' ruling at the breakdown against SA. Had me in stitches... literally.
Hey GG who do you think will win the US Open today?
Nadal has lost 5 finals to him this year. But you´d have to go back to 2003 to find anything decent England has won. And only then because they got some dodgy calls in their favour.

But what is in common with GG when he gets in this frame of mind and these sorry so-called journos who spout nothing but clichés? They should all be ignored. The more you respond to them or draw attention to them, the louder their voice gets.

The articles are rubbish,sit back and enjoy the Rugby,I am and i HATE RWCS.

No Alan, why are you enjoying the rugby?

While on the subject of hacks, ex Wallaby Peter Fitzsimons has his moments

My hope is this: that the cup is won by the team that plays the way Mother Rugby intended - eschewing dull, calculated play and instead embracing derring-do, gumption, guts and gusto with five parts passion to five parts damn-the-torpedoes-full-speed-ahead-and-let's-back-ourselves-home. That describes the French most of the time, particularly in World Cups; the Wallabies in recent times; Manu Samoa once every blue moon, such as their last outing against the Wallabies; the All Blacks when they're not crushed by pressure, particularly in World Cups, and England once, against the Wallabies last November at Twickenham.

Kiwi brothel operator and dominatrix Mary Brennan on how busy they will be during the Rugby World Cup: ''The English are known to be particularly deviant. Whenever I hear an English accent I know there'll be some good business there.'' You naughty, NAUGHTY boys!

Now at least he makes his tired cliches amusing

You see, I told you it is spreading like a virus.

Kiwireddevil wrote:While on the subject of hacks, ex Wallaby Peter Fitzsimons has his moments

My hope is this: that the cup is won by the team that plays the way Mother Rugby intended - eschewing dull, calculated play and instead embracing derring-do, gumption, guts and gusto with five parts passion to five parts damn-the-torpedoes-full-speed-ahead-and-let's-back-ourselves-home. That describes the French most of the time, particularly in World Cups; the Wallabies in recent times; Manu Samoa once every blue moon, such as their last outing against the Wallabies; the All Blacks when they're not crushed by pressure, particularly in World Cups, and England once, against the Wallabies last November at Twickenham.

Kiwi brothel operator and dominatrix Mary Brennan on how busy they will be during the Rugby World Cup: ''The English are known to be particularly deviant. Whenever I hear an English accent I know there'll be some good business there.'' You naughty, NAUGHTY boys!

Now at least he makes his tired cliches amusing

I listen to the commentary for some of the games on Aucklands radio sport channel and I was surprised how many ads there were for brothels on the radio.

leinsterbaby wrote:

I listen to the commentary for some of the games on Aucklands radio sport channel and I was surprised how many ads there were for brothels on the radio.

Have to admit I haven't heard them advertised on radio in NZ before - It's 5 years since I moved to the UK of course, and I didn't listen to much radio the couple of times I've been home. OTOH, brothels aren't illegal in NZ (though I'd be surprised if they were allowed to advertise pre-watershed), so I guess if they feel the marketing works ...