Ireland vs Australia - Discussion Thread

[MMC]

Ireland:
1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

Replacements:
16. Jerry Flannery
17. Tom Court
18. Donnacha Ryan
19. Denis Leamy
20. Conor Murray
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Andrew Trimble


Australia:
15. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
14. James O’Connor (Western Force)
13. Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds)
12. Pat McCabe (Brumbies)
11. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Brumbies)
10. Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
8. Radike Samo (Queensland Reds)
7. David Pocock (Western Force)
6. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies)
5. James Horwill (Queensland Reds, captain)
4. Dan Vickerman (NSW Waratahs)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
1. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:
16. Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)
17. James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
18. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
19. Ben McCalman (Western Force)
20. Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)
21. Luke Burgess (NSW Waratahs)
22. Drew Mitchell (NSW Waratahs)

COME ON IRELAND!!

littlejohn's thread about how we can beat the Wallabies:

Would like to hear other people's views on what ireland need to do to have a chance of beating Australia this Saturday. Here are some of my naive thoughts on what needs to happen:

1. Ireland to play with same agression when they played England earlier this year. While ireland have not really performed since then, I'm quietly confident they'll be fired up for this game!

2. Steal some of Italy's tactics for the game. Italy did really well in the first half vs Oz by kicking very well timed up and unders (generally aimed at AAC), and they were very well organised in defence, which resulted in frustration creeping in for the Wallabies. If they had a decent 10 this might have been a lot closer!

3. Start with ROG - His tactical kicking and ability to vary it is in my opinion a better fit for this kind of game. We can always bring Sexton on later if we need to change tactics. I think he's also marginally better at kicking penalty and conversions.

4. Whereever Cooper is standing in defence run at him (ideally using O'Brien/Ferris) - Pretty obvious one this, although he does often stand deep covering full back off lineouts, etc.

5. Play Australia at their own game - Australia have been very good at putting pressure on rucks, but Ireland will need to do the same when Australia have the ball, slowing it down where possible to stop Genia getting into gear.

6. Leverage Bowe and Kearney's height - Cross field kicks (timed well) could reap rewards for us. Rog is excellent at this.

All in all I accept this will be a tall order, but Ireland play the underdog tag better than anyone! I'm praying it won't be yet another herioc defeat. Bring on Saturday!

[MMC]

To kick things off I don't believe that we'll say any radical changes from the team that started against the USA.

Healy will come in for Court, who in turn will take Buckley's spot on the bench.
O'Brien will most likely come in for Jennings (bench).
Reddan will partner Sexton at half back.
Trimble and Earls will switch places (Earls to 22).
Kearney may come in for Murphy if there are doubts about his fitness.

This game should give us a very good insight into the mind of Declan Kidney and should tell us what he believes his very best team is.

[Boyne]

My natural aversion to self delusion is waning.... or maybe I am starting to believe.

It's not Christmas. It's bigger than Christmas. It's the World Cup.

When I wake up, I want Father Kidney to fill my stocking full of "winning team".

Do it.

[red_stag]

I think Court should retain his place. Healy on the bench.



I'd also like to see the Earls, Trimble, Bowe back three start the match.



I'd have Reddan and Boss as my 9's. Sexton to start the game.

[Boyne]

I think Court should retain his place. Healy on the bench.

Are you for real Stag?

[MMC]

I think that this is a winning team Boyne:

Healy - Best - Ross
DOC - POC
Ferris - Heaslip - SOB
Reddan - Sexton
D'Arcy - BOD
Trimble - Kearney - Bowe

Subs: Flannery, Court, Ryan, Jennings, Boss, ROG, Earls.

I think that for this game that's close to the best team we can put out. Plenty of impact off the bench too. I think we'll see a much-improved Ireland on Saturday morning.

[red_stag]

Yea - I thought Court did well, we have plenty of ball carriers, Healy would be a super impact sub around the 60 minute mark (which is where the Aussies are aiming to turn up the heat) and I think Court is a better scrummager than Healy. I think that rather than aiming to not get bounced back in scrums with Court and Ross we can really attack from it.

[Boyne]

I think that this is a winning team Boyne:

Healy - Best - Ross
DOC - POC
Ferris - Heaslip - SOB
Reddan - Sexton
D'Arcy - BOD
Trimble - Kearney - Bowe

I think so too and it's the team I would go for.

[red_stag]

So that would make my team:

Court, Best, Ross
DOC, POC
Ferris, Heaslip, O'Brien
Reddan, Sexton
Darcy, BOD
Trimble, Earls, Bowe

Flannery, Healy, Ryan, Leamy, Boss, O'Gara, Kearney

[Boyne]

Yea - I thought Court did well, we have plenty of ball carriers, Healy would be a super impact sub around the 60 minute mark (which is where the Aussies are aiming to turn up the heat) and I think Court is a better scrummager than Healy. I think that rather than aiming to not get bounced back in scrums with Court and Ross we can really attack from it.

With that in mind would we not start with Jennings and have SOB or Ferris come off the bench too?

I think we need to start with our best 15. If they are planning to pull away on 60, it means we might just be in it at that stage, which would already be quite something.

Court did well, no doubt. In the scrum, against the US Eagles, lets not forget.

[MMC]

I think Court should retain his place. Healy on the bench.

I'd also like to see the Earls, Trimble, Bowe back three start the match.

I'd have Reddan and Boss as my 9's. Sexton to start the game.

I'd agree with you on the half backs Stag.

I think that while Court was excellent in the scrum against the USA we really missed Healy's dynamism and the forward momentum that he can generate. He's also one of the best players we have to hold the tackled player off the ground.

As for the back 3. After the England game I'd have agree with you but having seen what playing in various different positions in consecutive games has done to Earls' confidence I'm not so sure. My worry would be that one mistake at the start of the game could send him down a slippery slope. I think he'd be more effective coming off the bench for this one.

[red_stag]

No because I thought Jennings did badly against the USA.

[rodders]

Can this be merged with the other one?:

https://www.606v2.com/t13807-tactics-ireland-need-to-play-to-beat-the-wallabies

[MMC]

No because I thought Jennings did badly against the USA.

He did. But at least he can change a game when coming off the bench. Leamy doesn't offer that.

Jennings is undoubtedly excellent in a Leinster jersey. I don't know why he's never produced this on the International stage. I thought he was superb against Munster in the Magners League final, and before that in the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

I can't say the same about Leamy. Not since Perpignan a few years ago.

[red_stag]

I think that while Court was excellent in the scrum against the USA we really missed Healy's dynamism and the forward momentum that he can generate.

Yes but we also bring in Sean O'Brien so we'll have that in buckets.



Comments by Adam Ashley Cooper today, "Ireland are going to be tough. It seems to me that more games are being won around the 60-65 minute mark. We expect a pretty tight encounter right up until then".



I'm not buying into the words and claiming this is the only reason. But it is a factor and something I agree with. Keeping something in reserve is no harm.

[red_stag]

No because I thought Jennings did badly against the USA.

He did. But at least he can change a game when coming off the bench. Leamy doesn't offer that.

Jennings is undoubtedly excellent in a Leinster jersey. I don't know why he's never produced this on the International stage. I thought he was superb against Munster in the Magners League final, and before that in the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

I can't say the same about Leamy. Not since Perpignan a few years ago.

I agree about Leamy. I won't mind if its Jennings or Leamy on the bench - they are much of a muchness for me.

[Boyne]

Comments by Adam Ashley Cooper today, "Ireland are going to be tough. It seems to me that more games are being won around the 60-65 minute mark. We expect a pretty tight encounter right up until then".

Yes I read that with glee. They are expecting to pull away.

Should be motivational for the lads.

If ROG come on on 64 and pins them back, nobody will be pulling anywhere.

I can feel it now.

[George Carlin]

Are Heaslip and Ferris actually fit?

[rodders]

I agree about Leamy. I won't mind if its Jennings or Leamy on the bench - they are much of a muchness for me.

I think they are very much not a much of a muchness.

Jennings brings a different style of play to the table, whereas Leamy is a liabity.
As soon as he came on against the USA he conceded a penalty.

I though Jennings had a good game against the USA. A good openside does a lot of his work unnoticed and he was everywhere the ball was. He also made more tackles than Heaslip and Ferris put together.

[Boyne]

Are Heaslip and Ferris actually fit?

Yip. JH is just playing *ahem* with something in reserve we hope.

And if 1F is injured, bejaysus, I wouldnt like to see him in full form.

Both are grand. I reckon BOD is hurting tho.

[red_stag]

What I can actually see happening is a great performance, a narrow loss (maybe like SA and Wales) and Ireland going on to carry the performances into the Russia, Italy and South Africa games winning all three

[Boyne]

He also made more tackles than Heaslip and Ferris put together.

Interesting "Stato" didn't pull that one out of the bag.

Very interesting indeed.

[red_stag]

Fair enough Rodders I disagree. I think that once again Jennings has been shown up on the international stage. I have never ever seen him do what he gives Leinster when playing for Ireland.

[MMC]

Ya it definitely sounds to me as if their looking at us as plucky underdogs who'll give them a little scare before ultimately tiring. Hopefully we can give them a surprise.

Stag,
I hear what you're saying about O'Brien bringing enough go forward but the problem is that he'll most likely be playing at 7 where he's less effective. Plus, the way things are going I think we need as many willing ball carriers as we can get. (That'd be about 2 or 3 on a good day in case you're wondering.)

[rodders]

Comments by Adam Ashley Cooper today, "Ireland are going to be tough. It seems to me that more games are being won around the 60-65 minute mark. We expect a pretty tight encounter right up until then".

I agree with Cooper here.... I think Australia will be in the game for 60-65 minutes too .

[red_stag]

As I see it we have O'Connell, Ferris, Heaslip and O'Brien who are all able carriers.

[red_stag]

Comments by Adam Ashley Cooper today, "Ireland are going to be tough. It seems to me that more games are being won around the 60-65 minute mark. We expect a pretty tight encounter right up until then".

I agree with Cooper here.... I think Australia will be in the game for 60-65 minutes too .

LOVE IT

[Boyne]

As I see it we have O'Connell, Ferris, Heaslip and O'Brien who are all able carriers.

Sorry Stag. POC is not what I would term a ball carrier. For all his attributes, he hasn't gotten over the gainline since 2004.

[MMC]

I though Jennings had a good game against the USA. A good openside does a lot of his work unnoticed and he was everywhere the ball was. He also made more tackles than Heaslip and Ferris put together.

Hang on a sec. This is sounding a lot like the excuses that are made for DOC that are always dismissed by everyone.

Made a load of tackles? Check.
Did loads of unseen work? Check.



Seriously though, I think that while Jennings may have been everywhere the ball was he didn't seem to be actually doing much while he was there.

Their ball was quick and clean while ours was slow and messy.
One thing that we HAVE to start doing is committing enough numbers to the ruck as soon as it's formed. Our ball protection was appalling on Sunday.

[Tayto]

Healy,Best,Ross
DOC,POC
Ferris,Heaslip,O Brien
Murray,ROG
Sexton,BOD
Trimble,Earls,Bowe

Bench Court,Flannery,Ryan,Leamy/Jennings,McFadden and Kearney.

I think Darcy has been given too many chances and it's time to call a halt to his time in green.

Heaslip and DOC need to up their game this week and play to a standard we know they are capable of.

[red_stag]

I wouldn't be upset to see ROG-Sexton at 10-12



But if you do that then surely Paddy Wallace is on the bench ahead of McFadden who offers barely any cover at either 10 or 12.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I'd go

Healy-Best-Ross
DOC-POC
Ferris-Heaslip-SOB
Reddan-Sexton
Wallace-BOD
Trimble-Kearney-Bowe

Court-Fla-Ryan/Cullen-Jennings-Boss-Rog-Earls

[MMC]

I wouldn't be upset to see ROG-Sexton at 10-12



But if you do that then surely Paddy Wallace is on the bench ahead of McFadden who offers barely any cover at either 10 or 12.

For the 21 jersey? I think so. McFadden could only occupy the 22 jersey if he was on the bench IMO. Of course the opposite is true too in that I wouldn't put Wallace in the 22 jersey as he doesn't cover enough positions.

I don't think we'll see anything close to resembling a drastic change when the team is announced though. We may possibly see Wallace at 12 with D'Arcy dropped but I'd be surprised.

[red_stag]

No MMC, Tayto had McFadden at 21. I disagree saying I'd have Wallace at 21 and someone else at 22.

[Feckless Rogue]

What I can actually see happening is a great performance, a narrow loss (maybe like SA and Wales) and Ireland going on to carry the performances into the Russia, Italy and South Africa games winning all three

I hope so. I remember watching France brush us aside with such ease in 2007. 25-3, I think it was. And I knew we had no hope against Argentina after that. Our goose was clearly cooked. I hope we can at least put in an encouraging performance and score a few tries. Something that would make me confident we can actually beat Italy. If we can reach the quarters and start to look a bit better then who knows? Maybe South Africa will be riddled with injuries when we meet them?

At least this time more players are playing OK than in 2007. I really think something drastic has to be done about our centers though.

[MMC]

No MMC, Tayto had McFadden at 21. I disagree saying I'd have Wallace at 21 and someone else at 22.

Ah I see. I hadn't seen Tayto's post. In that case then I agree with you Stag.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

MMC-

Just on your comment that SOB is less effective at 7 I think this will be negated by Ferris.

SOB always played 7 with either McL or Leamy at 6. Neither are known for clearing out rucks like nothing else. With Ferris destroying rucks I think it will free up SOB for carrying.

Effectively Ferris at 7 and SOB at 6 although SOB would be at 7 during scrums because he is marginally quicker I think

[MMC]

MMC-

Just on your comment that SOB is less effective at 7 I think this will be negated by Ferris.

SOB always played 7 with either McL or Leamy at 6. Neither are known for clearing out rucks like nothing else. With Ferris destroying rucks I think it will free up SOB for carrying.

Effectively Ferris at 7 and SOB at 6 although SOB would be at 7 during scrums because he is marginally quicker I think

That's possible pete. Ferris has played 7 before. I think no matter what anyway if we do play the 3 of them together they're going to have take on some of each other's responsibilities. At least that'll be the case with SOB and Ferris, maybe not so much for Heaslip.

I'm not sure it's quite as simple as you're saying with regard to Ferris hitting rucks and SOB carrying though. Someone has to secure the ball too and that job will fall to SOB. If anything I think we'll see Heaslip having more opportunities to carry than the other two. In fact, that has me thinking. Maybe Boss is the one we should be starting at 9.

Ferris hits the rucks, SOB secures the ball. At that point either your 8 or 9 are most likely to be on the receiving end of quick ball from the ruck. Boss would be perfect for that sort of game plan (at least in terms of making the telling break).

[GunsGerms]

Yea - I thought Court did well, we have plenty of ball carriers, Healy would be a super impact sub around the 60 minute mark (which is where the Aussies are aiming to turn up the heat) and I think Court is a better scrummager than Healy. I think that rather than aiming to not get bounced back in scrums with Court and Ross we can really attack from it.

Court did well against the worst pack, mostly amatures, in the tournament. Healy is definitely going to start.

[GunsGerms]

So are we going to get hammered or what lads? Ireland haven't played this badly since 07 and about ten years before that. Really didn't think we could be this bad this time round. We have good enough players. WHATS GOING ON?

[MMC]

So are we going to get hammered or what lads? Ireland haven't played this badly since 07 and about ten years before that. Really didn't think we could be this bad this time round. We have good enough players. WHATS GOING ON?

I don't think we'll get hammered. I think we can win but don't think we will.

As for what's going on? That's the million euro question really. I do expect a massive improvement on what we've seen in recent months though.

[Boyne]

So are we going to get hammered or what lads? Ireland haven't played this badly since 07 and about ten years before that. Really didn't think we could be this bad this time round. We have good enough players. WHATS GOING ON?

WOULD EVERYBODY STOP FREAKING OUT AND FOR GOD'S SAKE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!

[Comfort]

So are we going to get hammered or what lads? Ireland haven't played this badly since 07 and about ten years before that. Really didn't think we could be this bad this time round. We have good enough players. WHATS GOING ON?

I don't think we'll get hammered. I think we can win but don't think we will.

As for what's going on? That's the million euro question really. I do expect a massive improvement on what we've seen in recent months though.

Ireland have the ability to turn up at a game out of the blue and the forwards will ruck the other team off the park with an intensity only SA and NZ can match, unfortunately they dont seem to do this consistently.

Much is made of getting "quick ball" but Ireland seem to use it more quickly than any other NH team when they fire and their ball carriers roar.

From the useless (wales in the 6ns) to the sublime (england in the 6ns). Ireland have the talent and ability, but lack something. I put them in the same bracket as this Welsh side currently, almost there as a contender, some sort of spark needed.

Good luck though, I've predicted an Australian win elsewhere, but I'll be adding my measly voice to the green choir.

[MMC]

Anyone seen this [sarcasm] thoroughly uplifting [/sarcasm] piece in the Belfast Telegraph?

Another early World Cup exit on cards for Ireland
By George Hook

New Plymouth now joins Lens and Bordeaux as sites of great Irish rugby nightmares. In the early hours of yesterday morning the Irish public got a realistic view of the progress made by this team since its arrival in New Zealand.

It was a far removed from the optimistic reports from base camp. The team has gone backwards even from the low standards exhibited in the warm-up games.

Consider the evidence. After five minutes we knew that the USA did not have a scrum, a line-out, a maul or a restart. Their defence was the same as usual; presented with a straight-up target they tackled like a runaway truck, but were baffled by moving targets. They were 10 places below Ireland in the rankings and in the build-up to this tournament the team of four professionals had conceded over 80 points to the England 3rd XV, over 40 points to Tonga and were beaten by Canada and Japan.

This then was the challenge presented to a team with aspirations of beating Australia. After 39 minutes of the game, Ireland led this motley group by a mere three points. The Tommy Bowe try on the stroke of half-time was flattering to Ireland and unfortunate for their opponents who had played with courage and determination. The ease with which Bowe scored untouched demonstrated that three smart passes could unlock this defence.
This team is philosophically and psychologically unable to attack. Talented players like Brian O'Driscoll, Jonny Sexton and Andrew Trimble hoofed the ball aimlessly downfield. The Trimble kick was especially galling as the wing, with the game won and his team chasing a bonus point, decided on the boot rather than trust his proven running skills.

Incredibly, with a massive territorial and possession advantage, the back row was outplayed with the exception of Stephen Ferris, who carried the ball with conviction. Shane Jennings was anonymous and Eagles’ open-side Todd Clever gave an indication of what David Pocock will do to Ireland next week. If anything, Jamie Heaslip was more ineffective than Jennings.

Incomprehensibly, with the scrum going forward at a rate of knots, he failed to attack once off the back.

The pedestrian back play is now an Irish trademark, but who decided that Sexton should continually use his outsides on the cut-back into traffic rather than take it wide into space? It took an hour and the arrival of Ronan O'Gara to get the ball wide with decoy runners for the resultant Bowe try.
Leadership and tactical appreciation is a real problem. After just eight minutes, having divined that the Eagles could not maul, Ireland went for touch rather than points. Unbelievably they threw long and were driven back.

Keeping possession is a fundamental of any football sport. This Ireland failed to do with any regularity as they spilled pass after pass. Irish errors were double that of a bunch of no-hopers. The conditions were no excuse; presumably the Californians see less rain than the Munster men.
If one had any feelings of deja vu from RWC 2007 then Gordon D'Arcy's appalling pass to gift an intercept try brought back memories of the Peter Stringer lapse that sent Ireland down the slippery slope in France. To excuse D'Arcy on the grounds that the game was won is nonsense. Does Nigel Kennedy strike a bum note at the end of a concert? Did Tiger Woods tap a careless putt wide when he won the Masters by 12 strokes? The pass was as symptomatic of a team malaise as was the scrum-half's error four years ago.

Much could be made of the performances so far of the other minnows in the competition. The big difference is that every other team has a scrum and a maul. Ireland, are in the easiest pool and yet on this performance may not qualify. Italy in Dunedin on October 2nd, as it has been for over a year, looks a difficult task and it may be beyond this team.

Can Declan Kidney turn this around by Saturday? The opening match makes his selection against Australia look obvious. Geordan Murphy will start at full-back but it would be a travesty if Trimble is omitted. Bowe, despite his two tries, looked a player short on matches, but physical wings will be needed against Australia and Keith Earls has not looked the part.
Half-back must surely be a done deal with Eoin Reddan and Ronan O'Gara to start. Sexton's descent into oblivion continues. Young Conor Murray discovered the hard truths of international rugby behind an unsympathetic pack and he simply tried too hard. One suspects that Kidney will settle for the predictable but average skills of Isaac Boss in the arm-wrestle that Ireland must create, rather than a contest of skill, in which it will come out second best.

Sadly, Jennings' non-performance guarantees Sean O'Brien the No 7 shirt and the freedom of the park to Pocock. O'Brien's ball-carrying strengths will be minimised while he struggles to come to terms with winning the ball in the ruck. The inevitable result will be quick ball for Australia and interminable waits for the Irish scrum-half at the breakdown.

For Kidney, he must hope that his team can deliver a performance against the superior Wallabies. To do that he must eschew a sophisticated plan and rely on the kicking and game management abilities of his fly-half.
Ireland can trouble the Australian set-piece and lay the groundwork for a war of attrition. It is the only battle they can win. A game of movement will guarantee a loss.

Watch this space.

[shantara]

Is there any chance that we could ask the Aussies to play in an all white strip and change their name to England. It seems to me that it's the only team that we can lift our game for (sad but true).

[GunsGerms]

Does everyone still think the warm up games counted for nothing?

[Boyne]

Comfort by name and nature. We need it. Enjoy the game!

[Boyne]

Does everyone still think the warm up games counted for nothing?

Yes. They have largely been wasted. Coaches fault.

[GunsGerms]

Guys not performing:

Heaslip
Darcy
Sexton
Earls

These guys better rucking raise their game or we will get a pounding.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Yeah, sorry I was creating a very black and white scenario where as realistically SOB could be cleaning out a ruck which leads to Ferris carrying.

My point is, SOB doesn't seem to carry as much at 7 as at 6 because when at 7 he is playing with players who aren't as good at cleaning out as Jennings is. With Ferris at 6 he has someone even better and cleaning out than Jennings

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