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What is the best natural asset a Boxer can have??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:59 am

Speed - If you're quicker chances are you'll get off first....

Power - You'll only need to land once as opposed to maybe a speedster who has to wear his opponent down! Always in any fight.

Durability - Sure without the other two you are limited but people lose speed the longer the fight gets and power punchers get arm weary leaving you there maybe to take over in the later rounds..

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:59 am

Speed or chin.

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Post by eddyfightfan Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:00 am

a good chin, if you cant take a shot you can be as good as you like, but you'll get caught eventually.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:00 am

Thanks for the considered opinion..

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Post by captain carrantuohil Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:01 am

Heart - all day, every day. You can be taught to improve your power, do exercises so that your speed will get better, can do the hard yards on the road to lessen the chances that you might gas.

Without intestinal fortitude, none of this matters.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:02 am

I used to think nothing beats speed but considering the guys who are at the top of the tree Khan not withstanding starting to change my mind.

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Post by sodhat Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:03 am

You obviously need a level of all three to be able to compete with the best; but of the three if I could pick one, it would be speed.

The ability to evade shots and get flurries in would win rounds and ultimately fights. Power is useful but not if you're in there against someone who has good movement or durability...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:04 am

Heart you won't get anywhere without it good point...

But I think speed, power and chin are natural gifts and something you have or you don't..

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Post by captain carrantuohil Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:07 am

It's the only thing that can't be instilled by a trainer, Truss. Of the three you mention, assuming that durability is a combination of stamina and a good chin, then I would pick that as the most necessary. We've seen great champions who were about as mobile as a supertanker, and great champions who couldn't knock the skin off a rice pudding, but I can't think of one great fighter who lacked durability to any noticeable extent.

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Post by Rowley Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:08 am

Personally would go for self discipline or dedication, whatever you want to call it. All the talent in the world is academic if you do not have the discipline to put the graft in, only have to look at a guy like Kirkland Laing for this who most reports claim could have acheived anything he wanted in the game but for a lack of discipline

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:09 am

Tommy Hearns maybe???? supppose he had stamina though....

Watching a young Camacho could make anybody think speed was the most crucial..

devastatingly quick against Limon.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:12 am

One could say that Hatton achieved great status without being the most disciplined as did Dempsey, John L and Johnson....

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Post by captain carrantuohil Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:14 am

All Tommy lacked to be a top three all-time great, in my opinion, Truss, was intelligence. If he had allied ring smarts to his natural talent, he would never have lost in his salad days. He could crack under heavy bombardment, but it would be unfair to describe him as chinny, while he was durable enough to be winning titles by decision well into his 30s.

Like Jeff's point about self-discipline as well.

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Post by Rowley Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:17 am

Hatton is a tricky one Truss because obviously hard to argue his lifestyle was great, however would say when he did go into camp apparently he really grafted. Think you could also argue that in an era when fighters regularly fight into their late 30s Hatton was pretty much finished by 30. Would not be too tricky to argue his lifestyle contributed to this

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:18 am

You not think like Khan...his durability came with a move up in weight...A chance to put some meat on that frame and muscle in the legs!!!

Tommy reminds me of Holyfield.....gets excited and wants to trade....

Should never have lost the Barkley fight..You're right wasn't the smartest slice in the loaf!

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Post by captain carrantuohil Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:20 am

Probably at his best at 147 or 154, though. Holyfield, who had nothing like Hearns' sublime gifts, almost had to fight that way to obtain the best results. Hearns had the ability to win a fight in a number of different ways, but too often, chose the wrong one.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:21 am

Think some fighters shine for longer than others too Rowley...

There is much more mileage in a Mayweather/Whittaker style than an easy to hit guy like Ricky!!!

Whilst there is validity to your argument..one can look at his style and see that it wasn't one to last forever..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:22 am

You think he was at his best at 147/154 because those guys like Medal, Baez, Cuevas couldn't take his shot as good???

Or because he was just naturally better at those weights...

what he gained in durability he lost in power??? perhaps...

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Post by School Project Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:55 am

How about the ability to adapt?

We've seen Calzaghe adapt in fights and remain undefeated. We've seen Hopkins change from a stalker into a counter puncher over time. Leonard change up his style depending on his opponent. Mayweather in his fights, the moment a blueprint to beat him is set, he adaptable and never makes the same mistakes.

All of the above have adapted to change either throughout there careers or during their fights to be very successful. No doubt it has helped the longevity.

We've seen the likes of Hatton, Tyson and Pavlik use the same styles that made them successful7ultimately finish them too.

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Post by bhb001 Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:11 pm

Didn't Marciano say it was good legs

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:39 pm

Apparently his Wife had them.

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Post by BALTIMORA Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:27 pm

Good question. I don't think there's any one clear winner though, for pretty much the reasons already stated.

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Post by Guest Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:33 pm

We've seen the likes of Hatton, Tyson and Pavlik use the same styles that made them successful7ultimately finish them too.


Didn't realise that drinking heavily had contributed to their success

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:35 pm

Doesn't work for everybody though obviously!!! Wink

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Post by kevchadders Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:37 pm

Has to be heart.

You can have all the physical attributes but if you dont have the heart to get youy through when things get tough, you'll lose everytime.

Auldley is a classica example fo this.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:39 pm

You don't think most Boxers have it already??

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Post by BALTIMORA Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't think most Boxers have it already??

Heart? There's a distinction though between 'enough heart to enter the ring in the first place' and 'enough heart to pick yourself up off the floor for a third time, spit the blood from your mouth and hope your broken jaw and dislocated shoulder hold up for the last four rounds'.

However, I think that even the gutsiest fighter in the world won't have enough to overcome a sufficiently better opponent.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:49 pm

Speed can encompass a few things......Speed of thought, speed of hand, speed of foot etc..

I'll take speed anyday..I think.

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:50 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'll take speed anyday..I think.
Explains some of your posts.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:51 pm

Hit and run...one line per usual..

very good.....

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Depends if you include the quote.

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Post by coxy0001 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:53 pm

For me: A boxing brain

Every sport i've played has been about decision making, dealing with adversity without losing your logical thought process, not choking, not feezing, executing a strategy etc etc


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:54 pm

Go to the boxing menu and scroll up..you'll see the non-Boxing chat thread!!

It was made for people like you..

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Post by Michaels, Sean Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:55 pm

I've always thought Rachel Cordingley was Froch's best natural asset.
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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:55 pm

A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:58 pm

The best natural asset for a boxer is heart.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:59 pm

No you can have a natural Boxing brain....Like being good at Chemistry, Biology etc somethings do come naturally......

Public schools have a lot to answer for!

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Post by Michaels, Sean Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

very good sir. Although surely increased speed and power etc is devloped through teaching?
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Post by coxy0001 Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

No

I'm comparing it to my own personal experiences.

No-one could teach me how to manage my way round a golf course, when to back off, take shots on. More importantly no-one could have ever taught me how to control emotions, how to block everything else out, how not to bottle it, how to cope with adversity.

The same applies here, you're either mentally strong and intelligent or you're not, you don't get taught it. You can do things 100,000 times over but when push comes to shove it's all dependant on your mental strength and how you handle things from above the neck line rather than below.

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:00 pm

Which boxers have become champions without trainers or experience then?

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Post by Michaels, Sean Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:00 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Public schools have a lot to answer for!

Me for starters Truss Cool
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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:01 pm

Michaels, Sean wrote:
Scottrf wrote:A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

very good sir. Although surely increased speed and power etc is devloped through teaching?
Barely. The best punchers aren't always the biggest guys.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:02 pm

Every boxer has a trainer so that comment is irrelevant....

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:03 pm

coxy0001 wrote:No-one could teach me how to manage my way round a golf course, when to back off, take shots on. More importantly no-one could have ever taught me how to control emotions, how to block everything else out, how not to bottle it, how to cope with adversity.
I'd think they are a lot of people making a living doing just that that would disagree.

You think pro golfers pay caddies all that money to carry their clubs?

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Every boxer has a trainer so that comment is irrelevant....
Precisely, because you aren't born with a boxing brain.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:04 pm

coxy0001 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:A boxing brain isn’t natural. It’s developed through the teaching of technique, experience etc.

No

I'm comparing it to my own personal experiences.

No-one could teach me how to manage my way round a golf course, when to back off, take shots on. More importantly no-one could have ever taught me how to control emotions, how to block everything else out, how not to bottle it, how to cope with adversity.

The same applies here, you're either mentally strong and intelligent or you're not, you don't get taught it. You can do things 100,000 times over but when push comes to shove it's all dependant on your mental strength and how you handle things from above the neck line rather than below.


What about Benitez, Champ at an early age and known for his ring smarts even at 16, 17 years of age.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:05 pm

Think Joe Calzaghe proves that a boxing brain is fairly natural.

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Post by Scottrf Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:07 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Think Joe Calzaghe proves that a boxing brain is fairly natural.
How? He boxed from a young age and traded on speed not really ring intelligence.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:08 pm

Think Joe Calzaghe proves that a boxing brain is fairly natural.

Maybe a buisness boxing brain but it would have been interesting to see how his slap and tickle tactics would have worked against a prime ruthless Roy Jones jnr instead of the Branco Sabots of this world.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:09 pm

So every boxer with the right trainer can become great............ok

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