Drop Hook?

After Halfpenny's performance at FB should Hook be benched?

Halfpenny is a better option at FB

Preistland has the 10 shirt and at the moment, nobody can take it off him.

The only other option is to play Hook at 13, but Jonathon Davies (despite his poor form for Wales) is great in defence which has really allowed Roberts to recover his Lions form - Moving Hook to 13 at this stage could really mess up the backline.

So, should Hook be on the bench where he may be useful covering 10, 12, 13 and 15?

The only problem is Hooks use as a goal kicker.

I think the backline for Namibia should be,

9. Knoyle
10. Preistland
11. Shane
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathon Davies
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

21. Lloyd Williams
22. Stephen Jones
23. Lee Byrne


If Halfpenny has a good game then he starts at FB against Fiji.

Halfpenny did make a massive difference with his attacking the line. Hook should not play at full back. I hope the injury isn't too serious and he's fit for Fiji but if I was picking a full strength back line now then I'm sad to say that Hook wouldn't be in it. Not a bad option to have on the bench though!

I would replace JD2 with Hook, poor composure kicking staight out and almost butchered the try, thank goodness for the lucky bounce of the back of 1/2 penny's boot. I think JD2 should play some 7's rugby to improve his 3 on 2 skills and pssing.

glamorgan

Your focusing on one non mistake that resulted in a try, he also made numerous breaks on the 13's outside shoulder and chased very, plus anyone who wants to break up the Roberts Davies partnership really needs to rethink about what sport they support, when that Fijian backline rocks up they will do one thing for sure, run strong, run hard and look to destroy would be tacklers and offload, Hook would be fodder, as he is at FB!!!!

1/2p didn't make a massive difference but he did straighten, which gave us space out wide, hence THE TRY, Hook wouldve killed that off before it had started!!!

1/2p has weakness's too, in the air, especially when he and Williams are defending cross kicks (which will come) plus his defence isnt that strong, but Hook is weaker in both areas!!

Hook shouldn't have been at 15 in the first place. What we did learn today is that Halfpenny is back on his best form and is a real option there. The question is do we want to start with two small guys (1/2p and Shane) against a more structured side with better tactical kicking?

RP did some excellent stuff today, but also showed inexperience. Pulled another drop to the left (hurrying it again), kicked out on the full. Made a good run down the left but then didn't even look up at the options around him. Grant Fox's commentary was "the coaches won't be pleased with that."

On the other hand, some of his tactical kicking, especially the crosskick for JD, was absolutely superb. A bit of luck with the bounce and that would have been a brilliant try.

9. Knoyle
10. Hook (if fit)
11. Brew
12. S. Williams
13. J. Davies.
14. North
15. Halfpenny

You could put halfpenny on the wing and Byrne at 15, but I would give him as much game time at 15 as possible. Considering he's so short of match practice. He didn't put a foot wrong. Somebody commented that we'd miss hooks kicking, but priestland can take anything i's his range and halfpenny can take the longer kicks.

glamorgan

Priestland also kicked a ball straight into touch, so why drop him and play hook at 10.

They will all get a turn, We have really suffered very few injuries considering the opposition we have faced

Id like Wales to try

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 George North
13 James Hook
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Shane Williams
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Tavis Knoyle

Against Namibia

thebluesmancometh wrote:glamorgan

Your focusing on one non mistake that resulted in a try, he also made numerous breaks on the 13's outside shoulder and chased very, plus anyone who wants to break up the Roberts Davies partnership really needs to rethink about what sport they support, when that Fijian backline rocks up they will do one thing for sure, run strong, run hard and look to destroy would be tacklers and offload, Hook would be fodder, as he is at FB!!!!

1/2p didn't make a massive difference but he did straighten, which gave us space out wide, hence THE TRY, Hook wouldve killed that off before it had started!!!

1/2p has weakness's too, in the air, especially when he and Williams are defending cross kicks (which will come) plus his defence isnt that strong, but Hook is weaker in both areas!!

I said it before the match
Hooks only position was and is a utility back coming off the bench (IF NEEDED)
FB
1/2ps awareness, speed, running angles, defence is better that Hooks at 15. I think his two tackles, and two breaks proved that, I would agree with Warburtons comments he did make a big difference when he came on.

Alun
how can you bring one instance up in the whole match, his obvious awareness of where Roberts is , running slightly behind but off his Roberts shoulder was very very good, his defence was very very good, his passing is very very good. Simply amazing comments just to retain Hook somewhere, if you are going to bring someone in then bring in Williams

For Namibia you have to rest players .......you have just had two very physical games

15 Halfpenny
14 Brew
13 Davies
12 Williams
11 Williams
10 Jones
9 Knoyle
8 Ryan Jones (if fit)/ Faletau
7 Warbs
6 Lydiate (if fit)/ Powell
5 Charteris
4 Davies
3 Jones
2 Bennet
1 Jenkins

Bench
Byrne (if on form otherwise Hook)
Brew
Phillips
Faletau
AWJ
Burns
james

15 Lee Bryne
14 Leigh Halfpenny
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 Aled Brew
10 Stephen Jones
9 Tavis Knoyle
8 Andy Powell
7 Sam Warburton
6 Ryan Jones
5 Alun-Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Craig Mitchell
2 Ken Owens
1 Gethin Jenkins

i guess that would be our alternative team.

I think Hooks justified his selection at every position he has played in.

I also thought JD had a good game, as did Halfpenny.

The only player who's selection is irritating me is Powell.

have to say halfpenny in my opionion made a massive difference, i mena that try came from a high kick which 1/2p caught, ducked under a tackle and sprinted away (while sorting out his scrum hat!!) and i doubt hook would have done that, i am starting to think in all honesty hook is overrated- a good utility player yes but i dont think he is the best at any positions he has played in, i think he should be on the bench as its not a bad option to have is it!

Heh how far have Wales come where we ar in a position where James Hook, the go to guy, doesn't fit anywhere in the back line?

Fullbacks not his position he should come on as replacement at outside half or centre if were desperate.

Hook is too good to be left out of any squad in my opinion. As an Englishman, I hate reading his name on a team sheet. He really is a brilliant player, but unfortunately, is a victim of his own versatility, both at international and club level.

We have just had two hard matches as said above we needto rest a few people, and pick a strong bench. Im assuming Lydiate and Hook will be rested if they have both taken knocks so the discussion whether to drop him is moot.

1. Gethin Jenkins - needs gametime
2. Huw Bennett
3. Craig Mitchell - No point in risking Adam in this game.
4. Bradley. - Needs a start and must start carrying again.
5. Charteris.
6. Ryan Jones, not his best position, will do the work to frees warbs and Faletau
7. Warburton.
8. Faletau, not as dynamic today but improves every game needs more time
9. Mike Phillips,
10. Priestland- hes our no 1 and will only get better with more time
11. Brew
12. Scott Williams - Jamies been outstanding rest him.
13. JD
14. Georgie
15. Halfpenny, looked good today and it is his natural position.

16. Paul James
17. Lloyd Burns
18. AWJ
19. Powell- really wish Turnball, Mccusker or Tipuric was in the squad
20. Tavis - to actually come on if we have a good lead
21. Wellies to replace priestland on teh hour and get gametime
22. Byrne - last chance saloon but needs 20-30 mins

I'd rest Priestland against Namibia and play Hook at 10. I'd play Halfpenny at 15. Give Stephen Jones and Lee Byrne the last 20.

I'd also rest Shane Williams and play Brew, he deserves a game. The first two matches have been really physical, and Namibia are the side the rest players against. Scott Williams and JD2 in the centres.

Big well done on the performance against South Africa and beating Samoa. Gatland and co have done a great job preparing this side. A Wales vs Ireland QF would be a belter. Just think of the battle of the back rows. Ouch.

Tycroes,

I was going o comment on the make up of the squad or back row at least.

Because in theory Warburton will most likely have to play every game as the only natural 7 in the squad.

We could maybe rest him next week and get away with playing someone else there but when you look at it who?

Lydaite has played 7 for Wales but maybe injured and I would rest him, the only other option IMO would be Faletau.

Don't like idea of Jones or Powell at 7

If Lydiate is injured they should fly in Tipuric or Turnbull

I think any hope of Warbs getting a rest went as soon as Lydiate rolled his ankle. I just pray hes back for the fiji game as with him at 6 the other two can play a bit more. Lydiate does the hard tackling and clearing out that reminds me of Richard Hill, hes the real engine of our backrow.

Powell shouldnt have been anywhere near the squad imo although I think it would be a little early for tipuric, either Mccusker or Turnbull would have suited me.

Flyhalf:

You state one instance, I gave an example of two instances, to repeat 1. kicked the ball straight out 2. Passing the ball behind and on the floor to Halfpenny or not to him (could count as another two) , I did not bring up the wild pass that went to nobody in mid field (first half), butchered a pass to North (second half) and someone said he had a good defensive game he made 2 tackles all game he seemed to be running away from any defensive work e.g., the ball was coming along the line and he run backwards towards the FB position leaving North and Roberts exposed but North snuffed the move out. I have just given more than one instance of poor play he can thank Powell (I am not a fan) for his hard work in giving JD2 an easy ride. Watch the game again and he did by far the least work in the game.

Faletau could be used as openside if we give Warburton a rest.

Faletau or Lydiate would be my choices at 7 if Sam was given a rest but then they would have played in all the games.

Wouldn't risk Lydiate against Namibia if carrying a knock

It's been said time and time again that Hook plays 10 better than 15. Earlier was his worst game in a while, when he wasn't slipping and sliding from running too crookedly for even himself he was laterally running straight into Samoan defenders, not a hint of creativity about him.

I'd cut him some slack and not condemn him to fullback again unless absolutely necessary. Priestland has done well but is not the finished article yet. I'd start Hook at FH at least once before our WC is over.

The mantras ' Hook must be on the field somewhere' 'We must find a place for Hook ' really say it all about Hook himself, he has not nailed any position and as i said at the very beginning of this rwc he should be on the bench if he has to be in the squad.

The obsession that he has to be found a place has been wrong.
At 10, not structured, doesnt command the game, at 12/13 defence poor and predictable down the alley running gives little to other centre and the 'hospital pass' and 'miracle pass' still well and truely in his game. At 15, well today said it all. no angles of running and anyone else notice he has gone back to his missing in action play. Call it poor positional play or just as far from the action as possible.

Someone mentioned williams and north going deeper , well yes, in this game and the last hook was standing next to a few rucks, doing nothing, just 'Seagulling' as they used to say, when he should have been in the fb position. Perpignan will be wondering where to play him after this rwc.

Here's my lot for Namibia and we need to win and win well

15 Halfpenny
14 Brew
13 Davies
12 Williams
11 North
10 Priestland (Needs the game time)
9 Knoyle
8 Ryan Jones
7 Warbs
6 Faletau
5 Charteris
4 Davies
3 Jones
2 Burns
1 Jenkins

Bench:
Hook
Jamie
Phillips
Powell
AWJ
Owens
Mitchell

why rotate, for the sake of it?

surely we stick with a 1st XV now and only tinker where necessary...they must build momentum and understanding v Namibia not give players 'game time'

I would leave the side unchanged bar subs for injury

Gatts

Surely you understand the importance of rotation!!

1. You have had two really brutal game, players will get injured when their bodies are tired

2. players coming back from injury need game time, otherwise what will happen if they are needed urgently e.g. you have only Faletau available at 8, but Ryan Jones should be available for next game, and Stephen Jones is available at 10

At least 3/4's of the XV should keep their place imo, couple of tactical changes if not enforced ones. Halfpenny to start at fullback after today's showing, Knoyle in to try and make a difference off the back of the breakdown, generally logical changes like that.

Then make some changes at HT and in the second half, still keeping it balanced, not all at once. Don't experiment but give a shot to those who may deserve it ie Scott Williams, Brew, Bradley Davies etc.

flyhalffactory wrote:Gatts

Surely you understand the importance of rotation!!

1. You have had two really brutal game, players will get injured when their bodies are tired

2. players coming back from injury need game time, otherwise what will happen if they are needed urgently e.g. you have only Faletau available at 8, but Ryan Jones should be available for next game, and Stephen Jones is available at 10

Yes of course i hear you loud and clear but I also know it can backfire (ask Graham Henry) and the importance of momentum and confidence. Use the bench for the rotation fair enough. We have a week between games and i want a starting XV who start to pick themselves and own their shirt.

Right now the front row does that, Bennett has found another gear especially in the loose. likewise AWJ and to a lesser extent LC. Our back row picks itself, with RJ starting at 6 if required or on the bench not AP. Gethin to join him on the bench. invaluable 30 minutes from him. Ryan gives us further options to cover lock and back row. I wnat to see knoyle coming on in the last 1/3 to exploit gaps. Keep RP at 10, he is starting to develop and needs max exposure, a big successful day out v Namibia is exactly what he needs. The centres...well JR is irreplaceable right now, JD inconsistent and i just don't know. North must stay. Shane , well he is there to do a job and he just did it again. He hasn't failed defensively so he stays. FB...has to be 1/2 to start on form over Hook who, if fit is bench cover for 10 centre and 15.

The roate or not to rotate is an interesting one now, I did post yesterday that we should rest some of the people (won't have choice with Hook and Lydiate) but now I am swaying my opinion to limited changes (only if neccessary).

Start with our strongest possible XV then when the game is hopefully won use the bench well and bring people on that way.

So now I would go for

Jenkins (needs game time)
Bennett
Jones
AWJ
Charteris
R Jones
Faletau
Warburton

Knoyle (needs some games)
Priestland

Brew (Give Shane a rest)
Roberts
Sc Williams
North

Halfpenny

James, Burns, Davies, Powell, Phillips, S Jones, Byrne

Priestland got run through a few times too. Does anyone have the tackle stats for Sunday?

Priestland also put in a couple of try saving tackles as well. It's weird but it's like all the players had a really hit and miss game, good 5 mins, then poor 10 mins, then good 5 mins again. just really inconsistent.

I was dubious about Playing Priestland at 10 against the physical sides but fair play he has held his own.

Rugby dreamer, I think you're right. The whole team performance contained some marvellous aspects and some sloppy mistakes and that goes for individuals too. The courage, physical strength and spirit was amazing, the accuracy still lacking.

glamorganalun wrote:Flyhalf:

You state one instance, I gave an example of two instances, to repeat 1. kicked the ball straight out 2. Passing the ball behind and on the floor to Halfpenny or not to him (could count as another two) , I did not bring up the wild pass that went to nobody in mid field (first half), butchered a pass to North (second half) and someone said he had a good defensive game he made 2 tackles all game he seemed to be running away from any defensive work e.g., the ball was coming along the line and he run backwards towards the FB position leaving North and Roberts exposed but North snuffed the move out. I have just given more than one instance of poor play he can thank Powell (I am not a fan) for his hard work in giving JD2 an easy ride. Watch the game again and he did by far the least work in the game.

Morning Alun

This WC is killing me, only one I have missed, even my better half is off out for the last two games WITHOUT ME grrrrrrr, and I seem to be more knackered working and watching the live matches as I seem to be surviving on four hours kip (not good!!!).

One thing I will say Alun, you give valid points and reasoning to back up your opinion and I always admire that. For my part I was attempting to eat my marmalade on toast and hot cuppa, whilst reading (and contributing) to the comments here during the Welsh match so might have missed some things hence I'll watch the match again Alun to assess Davies contribution compared to all the welsh players on the park. What I'll do is assess what he did and then pro v con it, and then compare it the others.

At least I'll have a bit more kip this working week zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Have a good week mate

Flyhalf:

I am lucky I have retirered from full time work and do some contract work for the same company. I am glad I don't have to go to work and try to watch all these games. I must admit I have only half watched some games as we know the result before the game start, I feel there is a lack of balance in the groups but Scotland have had nice warm up's but now it is their turn for a big match and hope they will get past Argentina but not easy.

On the topic, I think JD2 is a top player but I have noticed he has weaknesses that can be developed hence I made a comment on another post he should play some 7's. Against England at Twickenham his defence was good as we used the blitz and he smashed Jonny and did not get the reward for the knock on (and England almost scored from it), against SA we used the drift and he not so good as he is a slow turner and gets left behind. His passing has always been suspect (good inside pass for Wales third try to North) and he does (but improving) not always look to offload he tries to go all the way himself (he can be selfish e.g., second test in NZ did not pass the ball with a certain try, did not make the same mistake 5 mins later).

It looked to me just watching him he seemed not to want to do any work but wanted to be involved with the attacks, he reminds me of a school football goal hanger if you know what I mean.

Anyway enjoy the games and good luck, I did not enjoy the last Wales game, too stressful!

Alun