Forged Iron Prices

When is the price of clubs too expensive?

I was talking to my club fitter yesterday and he happened to mention that that the price of my clubs has gone up by 53% in only 2-years. He was gutted because the latest prices for 2011 had increased by over 30%, and so he told them to urine off. He was gutted because he’s built a lot of these clubs over the last 8-years and thinks they’re great, but no way will he be able to sell them at the latest prices. So a couple of new manufacturers will be stocking him next month.

For that money it would be cheaper buying top-end Muira, Epon or Vega, as they don’t come much more expensive than those. So in effect it seems that there will not be many clubs being built in the UK any more from this company, as they’ve priced themselves out of the market.

I’ve contacted a fitter in Florida who build the same clubs as mine, and the differential is massive. My mate who wanted clubs like mine will probably wait until he goes to Florida later this year. A fitting session and build can be done in 36-hours from arriving. The price variance is huge as you can replace the £ prefix and replace it with $ fewer digits too. Ridiculous

Is it a increase due to the company being greedy Kumquat or import duty on the heads?

What clubs are we talking about here?

LondonJonnyO wrote:Is it a increase due to the company being greedy Kumquat or import duty on the heads?

Were you trying to say 'ladies purse' In answer, I think they're being greedy. Or they're trying to position themselves in the high-end boutique market in Europe. Apperently the European fitters were all all given an ultimatum, so some have voted with their feet. Obviously the USA will get better deals, but so too are the Far East and Australia, which makes no sense. My clubs were not the top forgings, I believe there are a couple above that, but £145 per iron, which means £165 and £175 for the ones above mine is crazy, however good they are. I wouldn't have bought them at that price, but If I had that sort of money I would have gone for Muira or Vega straight away as they're recognised top end brands.

The interesting thing about golf club prices is that they are one of the very few things that have gone down in price over the past couple of decades.

When Callaway bought out their original Great Big Bertha Driver, which was the pretty much the first titanium driver, it was priced at £349 yet most drivers released today cost less than that. Same as irons - Ping Eye 2's were around £599 which is about what you pay today. The big reason for this is the internet and auction sites as internet stores have very little overheads and auctions make second hand clubs that much more available so there is less need to go new. Technology reducing costs will obviously play a factor but this applies to most products that have still been subject to inflation.

Shame your irons have gone the other way but maybe a change of brand could be in order - can't believe that you cannot find another iron that you like regardless of your level and bearing in mind irons are probably the least important part in golf then I would save the hassle/money and look elsewhere...

sharrison makes no difference to me as I bought these a couple of years ago with the intention of them being my last clubs. Loved them and still do, so didn't mind paying a highish price at the time, as they were fitted and custom built for me and my dodgy swing etc. I'm just flabbergasted how they can increase in price by over 50% in such a short time. They're a great club with plenty of feel which is buttery, but they're also a great looking club, but thats a personal thing as we all prefer different styles etc.

They're double forged to perfection in the place that Mizuno used in japan, before they outscourced to China. So the quality is there, but they aren't Muira's and although I've never hit a Muira I think they look fantastic and can well believe that they're worth the £170 per club. I don't believe mine are as good if that makes sense, therefore shouldn't expect to pay the same price. The bloke I was talking to has a top end range already as he has Vega and Muira sitting at the top followed by Alpha, Nakashima and KZG and then obviously cast variances from those brands. KZG are now out, but he will be able to still get me replacements, parts etc if required. Tom Wishon has now moved into the space created by KZG moving out, and one other coming in next month. Wishon do actually make some great clubs, although never handled one.

At the end of the day there are some great forged clubs on the market, and from all the leading brands, but at a better price than the boutique market. I'm just astonished that in the present economic climate an American company can decide to make their products exclusive so that they can inflate the price. The frogs have done this with Champagne as they got sick of the UK market being able to buy a bottle for £20. So they went out and burned half their crop which created a shortage so that prices were hiked. They would prefer not to sell cheaply to get rid of stocks, they would rather create a shortage .... Can't see this strategy working with clubs

It's incredible really how a brand can hike their prices so much but then golfers are generally so keen to buy a game rather than work at one that people will probably pay it because they associate a higher price with higher quality.

All of these "boutique" brands like Vega and Miura are just picking up the golfers that are not seduced by the major brands' aggressive marketing. People that buy them do so because they want people to think that they know what they are doing on the golf course and because they want to be a bit different - this is no better or worse than those that want to emulate their favourite tour star by buying the latest greatest clubs from the big brands but in essence it does not matter what you go for as long as you get the ball in the hole in as few shots as you possibly can.

The only difference is that the major brands spend fortunes on marketing and sponsoring players yet these "boutique" brands simply limit supply to make everyone want them. At the end of the day, a good ball striker can play with anything and this is why the tour pros do not use these "boutique" brands - they may as well play a major brand and get paid for it even though they don't need the money!

Am also not so sure about people raving on how soft irons like Vega and Miura are!?? If you strike the middle of the club then it's pretty soft with any iron and if you don't strike it properly then it will probably not matter anyway - I'm sure even a butter club would sting when you thin a 2 iron on a winter's day!

Doc wrote:sharrison makes no difference to me as I bought these a couple of years ago with the intention of them being my last clubs. Loved them and still do, so didn't mind paying a highish price at the time, as they were fitted and custom built for me and my dodgy swing etc. I'm just flabbergasted how they can increase in price by over 50% in such a short time. They're a great club with plenty of feel which is buttery, but they're also a great looking club, but thats a personal thing as we all prefer different styles etc.

They're double forged to perfection in the place that Mizuno used in japan, before they outscourced to China. So the quality is there, but they aren't Muira's and although I've never hit a Muira I think they look fantastic and can well believe that they're worth the £170 per club. I don't believe mine are as good if that makes sense, therefore shouldn't expect to pay the same price. The bloke I was talking to has a top end range already as he has Vega and Muira sitting at the top followed by Alpha, Nakashima and KZG and then obviously cast variances from those brands. KZG are now out, but he will be able to still get me replacements, parts etc if required. Tom Wishon has now moved into the space created by KZG moving out, and one other coming in next month. Wishon do actually make some great clubs, although never handled one.

At the end of the day there are some great forged clubs on the market, and from all the leading brands, but at a better price than the boutique market. I'm just astonished that in the present economic climate an American company can decide to make their products exclusive so that they can inflate the price. The frogs have done this with Champagne as they got sick of the UK market being able to buy a bottle for £20. So they went out and burned half their crop which created a shortage so that prices were hiked. They would prefer not to sell cheaply to get rid of stocks, they would rather create a shortage .... Can't see this strategy working with clubs

Hi Doc. Are you talking about KZG? Only I'm not clear. If so, they're just being dumb and I can't see such a business model succeeding. Still, their decision. Personally, I think there's a lot of myth and legend about this mythical 'forged' idea. Most of that 'feel' which people go on about is down to the shape of a blade, which is usually forged. If someone hit a cast/form forged blade and then an identical traditionally forged head, they'd never know the difference.

Incidentally, got the chance to hit some Wishon 550Ms and 550Cs a while back. Pretty special so I don't imagine your fitter is going to lose out by stocking Wishon as an option.

sharrison01 wrote:...and this is why the tour pros do not use these "boutique" brands - they may as well play a major brand and get paid for it even though they don't need the money!...

No, this is not why Tour pros play the major OEM brands. They play them for the money they're paid. End of story. Maybe you think TW made an ET appearance the other week simply because he liked the course so much?

Tiger may be a bit different because he had the "billionaire sportsman" in the back of his mind. Most tour pros are multi millionaires so their career then boils down to what wins they can boast and if a Miura or Vega club made that much of a difference then they would take a few lower shots per round than a few extra $ in their bank accounts...

interesting that none of the top players play the manufacturers mentioned above....i am now hanging my head in shame as i have only heard of muira....anyway why dont they ??...if money is no object and they can still have the tour bag with TM , CALLAWAY, TITLEIST then i cant beleive that the boutique irons are all they are cracked up to be, not that i have tried any of them.

i got mizuno mp 30s custom fitted when they came out and i cant see me ever changing......but you never know

Until recently Tiger Woods had Miura make his blades, then Nike stamped them. He also used Miura when he was sponsored by Titleist in the 90's. Japanese forging is generally regarded to be the best due to the processes used and the amount on man hours required to complete said processes... hence the inflated prices.

If you were to hit a cast and a forged blade you could certainly tell the difference between the two. However, when it comes to the amount of feel you get, the type of shaft you use plays a very large role too.

It's a bit sad really that as the UK (Scotland) is the home of golf and we had such a flourishing steel industry that all the best irons are now made in places like Japan.

Yet another missed opportunity down the drain..........

navyblueshorts wrote:

sharrison01 wrote:...and this is why the tour pros do not use these "boutique" brands - they may as well play a major brand and get paid for it even though they don't need the money!...

No, this is not why Tour pros play the major OEM brands. They play them for the money they're paid. End of story. Maybe you think TW made an ET appearance the other week simply because he liked the course so much?

Apparently every tour player has at least one club in his bag that he relies on, and it's not from the company who endorse him. Ryan Moore last season was using Scratch, and still carries 2 in his bag. Nick Price has 3 KZG clubs(He actually won a seniors event recently using a full set, with no endorsement fee), Tiger has at least one Muira, Phil has a couple of odd clubs including a Scratch and a Vega

I don't think that the home of golf, or a steel industry has anything to do with it.

It's all about marketing really. Britain isn't very good at marketing stuff, hence the number of British ideas that have been exploited by foreign firms which prospered.

As far as golf clubs are concerned, these brands like Ping and Taylor Made and Mizuno have established themselves as reliable, cutting edge, good for most players and fashionable. People are brand conscious these days - for no good reason when it comes to golf. There are very good brands of clubs - like Ram for example - that sell for a fraction of the price of TM, but they are as good in terms of design, manufacture and reliability.

Bespoke irons are another example - does it make that much difference? If a player is confident with his clubs then I suppose he'd say it was worth it. For most people, then the regular set up with everyday clubs (and the correct shaft) will work just as well.

liegerwoods wrote:....anyway why dont they ??...if money is no object and they can still have the tour bag with TM , CALLAWAY, TITLEIST then i cant beleive that the boutique irons are all they are cracked up to be, not that i have tried any of them...

Have you any idea how much money may be involved with these contracts?? More than many of them can count on in winnings and it's guaranteed. Also, if most of the Tour myths are to be believed, many pros still have clubs made by small outlets stamped with Nike, Titleist, whatever.

Marcus wrote:If you were to hit a cast and a forged blade you could certainly tell the difference between the two. However, when it comes to the amount of feel you get, the type of shaft you use plays a very large role too.

I must disagree I'm afraid and I doubt you've hit 2 irons which are identical in all but the type of metal in the head. Spoken to several metallurgists and engineers about this out of interest as well and the vibration frequency differences involved are negligible; you won't notice a difference. The sound you hear when striking a ball contributes a lot to 'feel' as well i.e. much of it's in your head. You're right about the shaft though.