Jeff: Whilst the cat's away the mice will play

A Jeff team will have to be relegated.

Potentially 30-odd percent of the season will have gone before the players get back (if they are not already knackered and/or injured).

Please don't let an undeserving side get relegated.

Quite frankly I'd prefer my beloved Tigers to face the drop than Newcastle or Exeter who have done and are doing (respectively) so much to improve English rugby.

Next time we have a RWC can we have it outside the season please?

The side that gets relegated will deserve it. I'm pretty sure it will be Worcester, who are barely affected by call-ups. If not it will be Newcastle, who also don't have many player at the WC.

Meanwhile young players are getting loads of game-time across the AP.

Portnoy you forgot about the 6 nations.


Only Harlequins have properly exploited all the absentees at the world cup.

Wasps and Exeter have obviously benefitted too though but not to the same extent.

Also it isn't all doom and gloom Leicester are 8th! Saints,Gloucester,Worcester and Newcastle are below you.


https://www.606v2.com/t12177-ap-international-call-ups-who-are-missing-and-how-many-during-the-world-cup

Above is a link to my previous article. I am pleased with Saracens. We are 4th with 8 players out.

Is it any surprise the top 3 have the least players out?

beshocked wrote:Portnoy you forgot about the 6 nations.


Only Harlequins have properly exploited all the absentees at the world cup.

Wasps and Exeter have obviously benefitted too though but not to the same extent.

Also it isn't all doom and gloom Leicester are 8th! Saints,Gloucester,Worcester and Newcastle are below you.


https://www.606v2.com/t12177-ap-international-call-ups-who-are-missing-and-how-many-during-the-world-cup

Above is a link to my previous article. I am pleased with Saracens. We are 4th with 8 players out.

Is it any surprise the top 3 have the least players out?

I have forgotten nothing (least of all the 6Ns), beshocked. I predict an unholy row at the end of the season with relegation taking pride of place

The financial penalties of the drop are horrendous.

There was a motion put forward within the PRL to play the LV Cup for the first 6 weeks and then pick up the AP as the internationals returned as this would mean that the AP would only be shown at full strength. Funnily enough some clubs (including Quins) were strongly against this idea, can't think why.

you forgot about the 6 nations

Tigers will only lose between 5 and 8 players during the 6N though, that beats the hell out of the 12 we currently have in NZ. Likely to see Cole, Deacon, Croft, Youngs, Flood, Manu and Castro away but everyone else should be around and Brookes should recover from injury just in time as well. As long as we can creep into the play off places and get through the group stages of the HEC we'll be doing alright.

Portnoy Leicester may be missing a few players but I don't think you'll be relegated....

Two of the teams who will be in the relegation battle are Newcastle and Worcester - both who are rooted to the bottom of the table. They are missing relatively few players too.

Sam 5 to 8 players is a lot. Especially compared to Saracens who will be fortunate to have 2 players involved.

I think Saints are in more danger of being hurt badly by their absentees.

If they lose to Sale on the weekend it's going to be a long long season!

Worcester away the week after.

It is still a lot of players and seemingly the price you have to pay if you want to promote English talent, a telling interview with Cockers in the Mercury today where he muses on investing in more foreign talent because those players will be available for more of the season. EPS payments are helpful but they don't extend the salary cap to allow clubs to sign replacements and how is any club supposed to sign a replacement player with the £30k they are given as RWC compensation.

Currently it is a flawed system but that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

Worcester will be relegated.

Leicester and Saracens will be in the top 6 at least by the end of the season.

To be honest a lot of this sounds like whinging to me. we all saw this coming, every club knew it would happen and nearly every club's been effected, some on different scales but a lot of that is relitive to the actual talent in the club.

To now be complaining that it's unfair just sounds like sour grapes.

Sorry if i'm a bit OTT but this must be the fifth of sixth thread about this issue. Let's wait till the end of the season before we all start pointing fingers.

To be honest a lot of this sounds like whinging to me. we all saw this coming, every club knew it would happen and nearly every club's been effected, some on different scales but a lot of that is relitive to the actual talent in the club

Everyone knew it was coming but there's not a lot teams can do about other than hold out as best as they can until the RWC ends. Contractual demands have to be met and the wage cap is in place there's not a lot of wriggle room. I'm not overly worried as the play off makes the entire league system slightly defunct as you only have to crawl into 4th and you can walk away winners.

On a personal view I'm fairly confident Tigers can drag themselves into a playoff place and will only be annoyed if our HEC season is hampered by the RWC as that then does mess with the clubs financial situation. What concerns me more is the interview with Cockerill where he speaks about increasing the number of foreign players in the squad because of the nature of the call ups and how they put his job at risk. We've already seen the likes of Sarries take a pragmatic approach and re-inforce the first team with a selection of foreign imports to guard against call ups to their English talent. Newcastle have previously sold off English internationals because they felt they weren't value for money. It's time the RFU and PRL actively encouraged and supported teams for a) providing internationals (the EPS agreement was like trying to get blood from a stone) and b) the clubs like Quins and Newcastle who have large numbers of academy graduates who make up their starting 15 (there has been a small move to that this season).

Sam the sweet irony is that Saracens have been having more representatives in the U18s and U20s than Leicester and many other clubs.

You'll see more young Sarries guys pushing the old guard to perform. Jamie George is putting pressure on Schalk Brits. Will Fraser on Justin Melck and Andy Saull.George Kruis on Botha and Borthwick. Wray on Joubert. Spencer on De Kock. Hodgson is already feeling the pressure from Farrell!

Vunipola is breathing down the necks of the props.

These youngsters will get their chances.

I agree more with you there and remember that they did want to make specific bonuses for teams that supplied more players but PRL decided to make it even for all teams.

As to Cockerill talking about hiring foreigners and the WC putting his job at risk. I'm not sure how much to believe, i think he's feeling the strain of not winning anything for 2(?) seasons now, this on topof no silverware isn't helping but it is a convenient exscuse for him to vent a bit.

I imagine we'll have forgotten all about this by March next year when Tigers are back up near the top.

I never said they didn't Beshocked but what I am saying is there is little incentive to maintain a team of England internationals as foreign players are sometimes cheaper and available for more of the season. Despite Sarries hefty investment in the squad there has been no bids for established England internationals other than Borthwick, the only English players they have signed are the ones on the edge of the English radar and who are likely to at most be squad players. Which is sensible but not really a good growth patern from an RFU stand point, ditto Wasps who have done away with most of their internationals and replaced them with a mixture of academy players and foreigners.

The RFU and PRL need to make having England internationals and promoting English talent (in the way Sarries and Quins do) advantageous.

I'm not sure how much to believe, i think he's feeling the strain of not winning anything for 2(?) seasons now

One season. Last year they won nothing but the season before the beat Sarries in probabley the most entertaining prem final ever. I think it's a sign of his frustrations of the system, he wants to keep his job and he knows he won't unless he wins games and that is currently made difficult by having half his squad nicked for a third of every season. Whether he will follow through on his interview or not I don't know, wouldn't put it past Peter Wheeler to be behind the whole thing as part of the next set of RFU/PRL negociations.

And you have to ask that why when Tigers need to make up a team that will be drawn primarily from academy boys with some older talent they can't win a thing.

It's the same situation that a lot of clubs have nearly every week. LI, Quins, Newcastle and more all suffer these problems every season, and figure out how to cope and compete with these limitations.


Yes Tigers have been hit hard but just think of the talent you have coming back to you. No one else has nearly as much.