Time for the Welsh regions to walk away !!!!!

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Sep 2011, 9:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

I know that I am going to take bashing off the Irish supporters here, but for far to long we have seen biased reffing when it comes to the big three provinces from Ireland. Tonight Munster were allowed to do what they wanted, and Paul Tito as captian was just dismissed by the ref like a little school boy. What I just watched was scandelous. I think the WRU should have a shorter club season then have a regional competition at the end of the year and stick two fingers up to the IRFU because there is clearley an agenda aimed at keeping the Irish clubs on top. For to long I have watched Munster, Leinster, Ulster basicaly get games gifted to them by Irish refs, and I am always being told that it is because the Irish teams know how to play the ref, Blah,Blah,Blah. Last season I remember the the same happening. I do not care what anybody types here to tell me I am wrong, because I know what I just saw. Tonights ref let even more obvious forward passes go for Munster than the last one for the Blues, and do not get me started with the scrum. He constantly warned the Blues about their dicsipline but Munster gave away more penalties. How can we expect this league to progress with this standard of reffing. Munster were gifted the game tonight by a very poor ref, no wonder people do not want to turn up for these games when we have performances from certain refs who are so biased it is unbeleivable. steam

by MrsP Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:08 pm

Thunor,

Only if we can bring our refs with us, otherwise we wouldn't stand a chance apparently!

Very Happy

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:09 pm

I think Nige might be the only professional ref in Wales, Stag, but not 100% on that. Bit weird that really.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:09 pm

I understand that stag but that was embarressing tonight, a terrible advertisment for our league and not acceptable in a game between two of the games great clubs.

I mean some of the discisions were just crazy, the ref just looked totally out of his depth. He seemed to give a load of descision in favour of Munster, then realise what he was doing and then panic and give something to the blues to try and be balanced. He was all over the place.

by red_stag Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:11 pm

I didn't think it was quite as extreme as that Rodders. I felt he had little control on the game, made one big blunder by failing to award the yellow card and penalised dissent when he should have managed it.

by ME-109 Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:12 pm

I saw a game where a side with 80% possession were completely inept. The ref wasnt great but that was for both sides. For the supposed yellow card the ref hadnt called ruck and ronan was competing for the ball, on numerous occasions cardiff did not roll away from the tackler, the last play should gave been a penalty for munster before the forward pass and for the alleged hands on from POM at the ruck he was not touching the ball.

The moaning from the commentators and the crowd was embarrassing and shows a real victim mentality

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:14 pm

I'm switching off now, I've got a life outside of this place and have to get up early to run a business, good night all Ale

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:18 pm

Yeah I don't know stag. I mean I watched it on RTE so I wasn't influenced by the commentators. Lets face it the Welsh are always whinging about the refs Wink

I genuinely thought he was awful a bit similar to last year when Ulster got a lot of the decisions against the dragons(?). I think Marshall Kilgore was TMO.

We really need neutral refs for these games and if the scots and Italians can't supply refs then we need to bring them in from outside.

The Rabo is brilliant at times, but some times it can be very poor. These refs are not doing justice to great teams like Munster and the Blues.

by **Notch** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:21 pm

I don't think Munster or the Blues did justice to themselves. I thought it was a fairly low quality game.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:25 pm

True Notch.

by red_stag Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:26 pm

How easy do you think it is to "bring in refs". What would the English or French give their referees to us for these games?

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

I'm sure it isn't easy stag. However I don't think we should have irish referees in a game between an Irish and Welsh team.

By concensus the Scottish referees are rubbish so what else are you going to do?

by BlueMuff Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

Notch wrote:I don't think Munster or the Blues did justice to themselves. I thought it was a fairly low quality game.

4 points on the road in Cardiff. I think Munster will be delighted - I certainly am. Defense was superb tonight. Wasnt great to watch - Munster offered little going forward but away wins are far and few between especially in Wales.

by **Notch** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:39 pm

roddersm wrote:True Notch.

I think double standards are being applied quite rigorously. Young, inexperienced players come in and perform poorly. That'k ok, they are young and they'll learn. Young, inexperienced refs come in- you must be instantly perfect in everything you do!

What's more the players are professional, the refs are amateur. Maybe if we're really serious about improving refereeing standards thats something we need to think about.

by **Notch** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

roddersm wrote:I'm sure it isn't easy stag. However I don't think we should have irish referees in a game between an Irish and Welsh team.

By concensus the Scottish referees are rubbish so what else are you going to do?

The reason we have that is that there aren't enough Italian and Scottish referees to satisfy the extra demand created by the fact there are more games involving Irish and Welsh teams than other combinations.

The only people I've seen questioning referees integrity in this league- integrity, not ability- have been people who have a connection to the losing side.

by Shifty Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:44 pm

Sadly I didn't go to the game today, I literally had my pink Cardiff Blues top on and was just going to the game when my mate rang and offered me to go for a pint instead, so I left it.

I didn't see the game, but I am not suprised to see the referee is David Wilkinson, the same moron who practically caused a riot during the Ospreys V Edinburgh game a few weeks ago.
I'm sorry to see he's taken his frustration out on the Blues, though I'm not suprised he practically burst into tears when the tmo made him award that winning try to the Ospreys at the end of the game.

Iv'e been saying this guy is a disgrace for weeks, it was bad enough the Ospreys had to endure Fitzgerald practically trying to give Leinster the game at the Ospreys, only giving up when it became clear they were so inept they were never going to score a try.

Though Wilkinson is nothing short of a cheat and a disgrace from what I have seen so far this season, he should not of been allowed to referee at this level again after his Ospreys performance, now I read he is screwing over the Blues too.
I'll say it again the Irish do have some quality referees, but others like Wilkinson well... Clearly he hates the Welsh and isn't prepared to referee matches impartially when were involved.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:47 pm

Notch wrote:
The reason we have that is that there aren't enough Italian and Scottish referees to satisfy the extra demand created by the fact there are more games involving Irish and Welsh teams than other combinations.

The only people I've seen questioning referees integrity in this league- integrity, not ability- have been people who have a connection to the losing side.

Thats the problem. Well I'm not a supporter of the losing side, I'm glad Munster beat Cardiff (yes I am DOD Wink

), but I would question both the integrity and ability of that referee but I suspect the problem is the latter and not the former.

The TMO was spot on by the way.

by red_stag Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:50 pm

Who is Fitzgerald? Alyn I hate to break it to you but I'm sure that this 'big cheater' Wilkinson will get more games. I really am amazed by the way you are treating this. There is a difference between being bad and being a cheat.

by **Notch** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 10:58 pm

AlynDavies wrote:
Clearly he hates the Welsh and isn't prepared to referee matches impartially when were involved.

Do you actually believe that? I've never been so depressed about rugby fans in my entire life.

I remember I was at a game at Ravenhill in the British and Irish Cup where the Ulster Ravens beat Aberavon 62-0. It was an utter mismatch, professionals against amateurs, and to be honest the gulf in class was quite large. Eventually the Aberavon players just got so frustrated they started outting in cheap shots and got a few guys sent to the bin for dangerous play. I remember talking to an Aberavon fan after the match and he says to me, shouts actually, "this match proves one thing... that Irish Rugby is bent" (meaning corrupt).

I was thinking- Yeah, jeez, if it wasn't for that referee they'd have carried it off for sure! Whistle

I used t think those guys were the exception- not the rule. No I'm not so sure. Goodnight all. Be good to each other.

by Shifty Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:01 pm

red_stag wrote:Who is Fitzgerald? Alyn I hate to break it to you but I'm sure that this 'big cheater' Wilkinson will get more games. I really am amazed by the way you are treating this. There is a difference between being bad and being a cheat.

Fitzgibbon sorry.

Well it's very odd, you won't find Blues and Ospreys fans agreeing on anything, but if you took the time to watch this guy refereeing games against Welsh sides, you would clearly see there is a pattern of him giving everything against us.
Some referees you can have real confidence in, but others are so inept, so disgraceful that they are the only talking point after a game. If I'm paying £35 ish to see a game I want to be entertained not frustrated by bent referees in an Irish teams back pocket.
The bottom line is David Wilkinson is an absloute disgrace to rugby and needs to be taken away from top flight rugby. I have never been in an Ospreys crowd where the linesman was shaking his head at the decisions, and the stewards need to stand up and make themselves visable because the crowd is so angry, but that is what happened when he reff'd at the Liberty stadium last time.
Perhaps he isn't bent, perhaps he is incompetent, but with so much at stake in these games we can't have referees out there who are totally out of their depth.

by ME-109 Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:05 pm

Nobody seems to remember when we had welsh referees for irish v welsh club ges... Ho hum

by **Notch** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:06 pm

When did you last pay £35 to watch a game in the Pro12?

by red_stag Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:07 pm

Once again Alyn, a poor ref, not a corrupt ref. I wasn't happy with his performance but lets just stop the accusations of him deliberatly cheating teams. In the last 2 weeks your views on this have made me really dispair for the future of rugby. The guy did a bad job and was out of his depth. I just find it unbelievable and if your attitude is that of many I really and truly dispair. Goodnight, best of luck next week.

by Shifty Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:07 pm

Notch wrote:When did you last pay £35 to watch a game in the Pro12?

Cardiff Blues - £23 ticket, £5 stadium parking, £3 match day program, £3.30 a pint of beer = £34.30 sorry I was 60 pence out Sad

.

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:09 pm

A pathetic ref today,
When Quins beat Munster at Thomond last season i was cheering so hard for Quins they ran Munster off their feet because Roman poite reffed the break down properly and allowed them quick clean ball,
Munster were close to tears because Roman wouldn't let them have it their way lying all over the ball going in off feet or the side,sealing off obstruction off side, he just gave a fair contest and Munster got shown for what they are-a fat load of slow coaches who rely on the ref to have this understanding that they can do as they please.

by Shifty Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:12 pm

red_stag wrote:Once again Alyn, a poor ref, not a corrupt ref. I wasn't happy with his performance but lets just stop the accusations of him deliberatly cheating teams. In the last 2 weeks your views on this have made me really dispair for the future of rugby. The guy did a bad job and was out of his depth. I just find it unbelievable and if your attitude is that of many I really and truly dispair. Goodnight, best of luck next week.

Well using the last 2 weeks as a guide line, we have had Ospreys fans practically rioting, which is unusual because Ospreys fans are normally pretty passive and usually only boo Dan Biggar.

Now we have the Blues fans, and even a few Dragons and Scarlets fans backing them up about the pathetic display of this referee.
While this clown is refereeing and incensing fans to this degree then these views have a right to be posted and we have every right to question this mans integrity, and ability as a referee.
Ireland have a lot of quality referees, I am always happy when Rowlands is refereeing game even when a Welsh team is playing an Irish one, however with Wilkinson, I seriously wonder whether I should bother going to the game knowing this guy is going to ruin the event.

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:13 pm

Munster can go randy

off as far as im concerned and im no Cardiff fan.

by Cymroglan Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:13 pm

The only warning he gave Munster tonight was,,, Lads try and make the injuries look a bit more convincing. Very Happy

by **rodders** Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:15 pm

viewtothegym wrote:Munster got shown for what they are-a fat load of slow coaches who rely on the ref to have this understanding that they can do as they please.

Yeah they bellyflopped their way to 2 HEC cups with the help of series of corrupt refs laughing

by marty2086 Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I know that I am going to take bashing off the Irish supporters here, but for far to long we have seen biased reffing when it comes to the big three provinces from Ireland. Tonight Munster were allowed to do what they wanted, and Paul Tito as captian was just dismissed by the ref like a little school boy. What I just watched was scandelous. I think the WRU should have a shorter club season then have a regional competition at the end of the year and stick two fingers up to the IRFU because there is clearley an agenda aimed at keeping the Irish clubs on top. For to long I have watched Munster, Leinster, Ulster basicaly get games gifted to them by Irish refs, and I am always being told that it is because the Irish teams know how to play the ref, Blah,Blah,Blah. Last season I remember the the same happening. I do not care what anybody types here to tell me I am wrong, because I know what I just saw. Tonights ref let even more obvious forward passes go for Munster than the last one for the Blues, and do not get me started with the scrum. He constantly warned the Blues about their dicsipline but Munster gave away more penalties. How can we expect this league to progress with this standard of reffing. Munster were gifted the game tonight by a very poor ref, no wonder people do not want to turn up for these games when we have performances from certain refs who are so biased it is unbeleivable.

Excuse anyone else who makes the same arguments as me I didnt read them just went straight to my own here.

Dowlais are you 12? Things are going our way so we're taking our ball and going home is that it?

If Irish refs are biased then why aren't they biased for Connacht as well? Don't you realise that last week against Ulster it was a Welsh ref or was he trying not to be biased towards the Blues and ended up biased against them?

Grow up its just sour grapes refs make mistakes everyone gets annyoed at them the reason you think its the big 3 getting the decisions is because they beat you the reason for that is that THEY ARE BETTER!!!!

by Shifty Fri 23 Sep 2011, 11:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:Excuse anyone else who makes the same arguments as me I didnt read them just went straight to my own here.

Dowlais are you 12? Things are going our way so we're taking our ball and going home is that it?

If Irish refs are biased then why aren't they biased for Connacht as well? Don't you realise that last week against Ulster it was a Welsh ref or was he trying not to be biased towards the Blues and ended up biased against them?

Grow up its just sour grapes refs make mistakes everyone gets annyoed at them the reason you think its the big 3 getting the decisions is because they beat you the reason for that is that THEY ARE BETTER!!!!

Clearly no Welsh fan I would hope, would want the Celtic League to finish, and also we are missing 3 of the leagues top referees to the World Cup which is a big loss and is having an effect on the standards in the Rabo Direct, but there are some real issues with Wilkinson that Irish fans seem to be skirting around for the most part.
Game after game, this idiot Wilkinson is causing so much controversy in matches he referees, that it is surely time that he is dropped back down to Irish league level, where his incompetency, biasedness, and plain cheating can be limited to Irish rugby.

by Knowsit17 Sat 24 Sep 2011, 12:11 am

This raises one simple question which I'm surprised hasn't been on more people's lips: should an improvement in the refereeing standards now be a priority for the P12? Apologies if this has already been asked and no, I'm not asking this purely for the benefit of the regions. If it was only the regions that were effected by dodgy referees I'd blame bad luck but the amount of times we've seen complaints from all quarters taint results over the years is more so than in most other leagues and therefore a cause for concern IMO. Does RaboDirect have the resources to dish out funding for a professional refereeing panel if indeed what some say is true and there are few pro refs occupying the P12?

by **rodders** Sat 24 Sep 2011, 1:07 am

AlynDavies wrote:
Clearly no Welsh fan I would hope, would want the Celtic League to finish

Glad to hear it Alyn. It is the the foundation on which Welsh, Irish, Scottish and now Italian rugby can flourish. Stick with it, it is the way forward for all of us. guinness

.

by Guest Sat 24 Sep 2011, 1:26 am

Notch wrote:

is there some kind of international competition between Wales and Australia to be the worst losers that I'm unaware of?

Before reading the rest, you're basing that off one supporter? Brilliant.

by mrsuperclear Sat 24 Sep 2011, 2:11 am

Risca Rev wrote:
Notch wrote:

is there some kind of international competition between Wales and Australia to be the worst losers that I'm unaware of?

Before reading the rest, you're basing that off one supporter? Brilliant.

To be fair, it seems like some sort of disease in Welsh rugby. I can understand frustration at incompetence, but calling referees biased is just ridiculous. God knows what would have happened had Kaplan let us take that quick line-out instead. Seriously, I worry about the Welsh psyche. The players in Wales have just as much talent in Ireland but they've done randy

all in Europe. The Ospreys were filled with great players who could easily have won the HC a few years ago if they weren't up themselves thinking they were celebrities. If all Welsh teams finish a game in which they lose by blaming the referee instead of looking at themselves then you'll never win a HC. The ref was bad, but he wasn't deliberately against you and all things Welsh. Incompetence does not equate to bias. If Cardiff had taken their chances presented to them they would have won. 80% possession in the first half? Christ like.... Now why can't the apparent majority of Welsh fans look at their own teams failings instead of blaming the official. It's ridiculous. We lost to ye in Cardiff with that dodgy try but I would bet my right hand that every Irish fan on this forum admits that on the day we played terrible and deserved to lose. Complete speculation, but would the Welsh on here react the same? I doubt it judging from the stuff on this thread.

In conclusion, grow up and stop acting like children. The world is not against you, and the people of Ireland and our mediocre referees certainly aren't. If you're good enough you'll usually win and make you're own luck. Unfortunately, if you look hard enough, you'll realise your teams aren't quite at the sufficient level just yet.

by Irish Londoner Sat 24 Sep 2011, 8:12 am

OK your lordship, where do you go then, the Jeff ? And then when you get turned over by Worcester or Sale, will that be the English refs fault too ?
Top 14 ?

Or maybe you can play with yourselves and then blame the ref from up the Rhonda when you lose to Scarlets - "those valley refs hate us city boys and give everything to the West" ?

I am getting worried that there is an increasing culture in rugby generally of analysing everything the referee does wrong (rarely praising what he does right) and then blaming every defeat on the refs failings rather than the teams, invariably a referee who is making poor decisions will make them for both teams.

Or maybe it's just easier to blame the referee than have a look at the team ?

by Guest Sat 24 Sep 2011, 8:16 am

mrsuperclear wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Notch wrote:

is there some kind of international competition between Wales and Australia to be the worst losers that I'm unaware of?

Before reading the rest, you're basing that off one supporter? Brilliant.

To be fair, it seems like some sort of disease in Welsh rugby. I can understand frustration at incompetence, but calling referees biased is just ridiculous. God knows what would have happened had Kaplan let us take that quick line-out instead. Seriously, I worry about the Welsh psyche. The players in Wales have just as much talent in Ireland but they've done all in Europe. The Ospreys were filled with great players who could easily have won the HC a few years ago if they weren't up themselves thinking they were celebrities. If all Welsh teams finish a game in which they lose by blaming the referee instead of looking at themselves then you'll never win a HC. The ref was bad, but he wasn't deliberately against you and all things Welsh. Incompetence does not equate to bias. If Cardiff had taken their chances presented to them they would have won. 80% possession in the first half? Christ like.... Now why can't the apparent majority of Welsh fans look at their own teams failings instead of blaming the official. It's ridiculous. We lost to ye in Cardiff with that dodgy try but I would bet my right hand that every Irish fan on this forum admits that on the day we played terrible and deserved to lose. Complete speculation, but would the Welsh on here react the same? I doubt it judging from the stuff on this thread.

In conclusion, grow up and stop acting like children. The world is not against you, and the people of Ireland and our mediocre referees certainly aren't. If you're good enough you'll usually win and make you're own luck. Unfortunately, if you look hard enough, you'll realise your teams aren't quite at the sufficient level just yet.

Firstly, I'm more than happy for that "try" to be scrubbed off as well as three of your points after the blatant O'Driscoll knock on. We'll just call it 12-10 and move on. It's funny how some of you Irish accept it, yet feel the need to bring it up.

Secondly, I don't need to grow up or whatever, as I accept my region are toilet and don't blame referees for our defeats, but it was a lovely post you wrote. I love how the Irish act all squeaky clean when it comes to these matters when nobody is whiter than white. I've read this thread and you have maybe four Welsh people going on about refs and yet the general idea from some of you Irish people is to tar all of us with the same brush. You're even at it yourself. I wasn't aware four or so people were the apparent majority of Wales, but then I guess you learn something new everyday.

by Standulstermen Sat 24 Sep 2011, 8:31 am

I hope some guys were drunk last night and feel a tad embarrassed about what they posted. What a thread.

by Thomond Sat 24 Sep 2011, 9:01 am

I don't think the Jeff would want Welsh teams in it,they're looking to make their league better. The ref was poor but the Blues should have won that game by themselves,blowing three try chances is poor at under-15 it is unforgivable in pro rugby.

by mrsuperclear Sat 24 Sep 2011, 9:23 am

Standulstermen wrote:I hope some guys were drunk last night and feel a tad embarrassed about what they posted. What a thread.

Risca Rev wrote:
mrsuperclear wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Notch wrote:

is there some kind of international competition between Wales and Australia to be the worst losers that I'm unaware of?

Before reading the rest, you're basing that off one supporter? Brilliant.

To be fair, it seems like some sort of disease in Welsh rugby. I can understand frustration at incompetence, but calling referees biased is just ridiculous. God knows what would have happened had Kaplan let us take that quick line-out instead. Seriously, I worry about the Welsh psyche. The players in Wales have just as much talent in Ireland but they've done all in Europe. The Ospreys were filled with great players who could easily have won the HC a few years ago if they weren't up themselves thinking they were celebrities. If all Welsh teams finish a game in which they lose by blaming the referee instead of looking at themselves then you'll never win a HC. The ref was bad, but he wasn't deliberately against you and all things Welsh. Incompetence does not equate to bias. If Cardiff had taken their chances presented to them they would have won. 80% possession in the first half? Christ like.... Now why can't the apparent majority of Welsh fans (on this forum/thread) look at their own teams failings instead of blaming the official. It's ridiculous. We lost to ye in Cardiff with that dodgy try but I would bet my right hand that every Irish fan on this forum admits that on the day we played terrible and deserved to lose. Complete speculation, but would the Welsh on here react the same? I doubt it judging from the stuff on this thread.

In conclusion, grow up and stop acting like children. The world is not against you, and the people of Ireland and our mediocre referees certainly aren't. If you're good enough you'll usually win and make you're own luck. Unfortunately, if you look hard enough, you'll realise your teams aren't quite at the sufficient level just yet.

Firstly, I'm more than happy for that "try" to be scrubbed off as well as three of your points after the blatant O'Driscoll knock on. We'll just call it 12-10 and move on. It's funny how some of you Irish accept it, yet feel the need to bring it up.

Secondly, I don't need to grow up or whatever, as I accept my region are toilet and don't blame referees for our defeats, but it was a lovely post you wrote. I love how the Irish act all squeaky clean when it comes to these matters when nobody is whiter than white. I've read this thread and you have maybe four Welsh people going on about refs and yet the general idea from some of you Irish people is to tar all of us with the same brush. You're even at it yourself. I wasn't aware four or so people were the apparent majority of Wales, but then I guess you learn something new everyday.

Tad embarrassed? Definitely, but I'd stand by the majority of what I said if you edit in that bold part Smile

So, I would like to amend my post and state it was having a go at the people on this thread and not the majority of Wales. I don't know the majority of Wales, I don't even know the minority. All I have to go on were the Welsh lads on this thread and they needed telling last night and mrsuperclear obliged Cool

Maybe it wasn't my place and maybe I should have watered down my comments a small bit, but it was two in the morning....

by **rodders** Sat 24 Sep 2011, 11:25 am

Standulstermen wrote:I hope some guys were drunk last night and feel a tad embarrassed about what they posted. What a thread.

by **Notch** Sat 24 Sep 2011, 11:34 am

AlynDavies wrote:
Notch wrote:When did you last pay £35 to watch a game in the Pro12?

Cardiff Blues - £23 ticket, £5 stadium parking, £3 match day program, £3.30 a pint of beer = £34.30 sorry I was 60 pence out .

Ouch! Not good Alyn. It all adds up eh? To be fair I thought you were just talking about the matchday ticket alone.

Fortunately at Ravenhill its a bit better. £180 for the season ticket with a loyalty discount, which makes it £12 per game this year (11 Pro12, 3 HC and 1 friendly). So throw in the cost of a matchday programme and it's £15 Smile

I'm just enjoying it while it lasts, because they are planning to upgrade Ravenhill and when upgrades are made/new stadiums built the cost is almost always reflected in rising ticket costs. Happened to you it will happen to us.

To be fair, if you went to games as one-offs I think it would be a lot more expensive.

by Cymroglan Sat 24 Sep 2011, 11:39 am

My nearest region is a round trip of 340 miles

by Feckless Rogue Sat 24 Sep 2011, 1:52 pm

Silly article. Munster ran away with the league last year. They're top of the league now. They're double European Champions and one of the top ranked teams in Europe. And you actually believe they can only beat you because of a cheating ref? Crazy. Delusional. No Welsh region has ever reached a Heineken Cup final. They're not nearly as good as Munster or Leinster. Going on last season, Ulster are better than all four regions too.

You can rant on with conspiracy theories about refs (backed up by no evidence). And English fans can go on about how the Premiership is harder and that's why they lose to Irish teams in Europe. Funny that the most gracious team in defeat I've seen were Toulouse last year when Leinster knocked them out of Europe. Said they were happy with their performance and congratulated Leinster on being the better team on the day.

Maybe that's why they're a great club. They have the inner belief to take defeat on the chin graciously in the knowledge they'll have another crack next year. Maybe some of the deluded whingers like LordDowlais should learn something from the most successful club in Europe. There are bad refs. But all refs try their best. Accusing them of bias is an appalling slur on them, and is incredibly childish. Blues weren't good enough to put enough points on the board. That is a fact.

by Cymroglan Sat 24 Sep 2011, 2:06 pm

Wilkinson is a useless ref and that's also a fact.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 24 Sep 2011, 2:21 pm

No point arguing with someone who thinks their opinion is fact now is there...

by Shifty Sat 24 Sep 2011, 5:46 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Silly article. Munster ran away with the league last year. They're top of the league now. They're double European Champions and one of the top ranked teams in Europe. And you actually believe they can only beat you because of a cheating ref? Crazy. Delusional. No Welsh region has ever reached a Heineken Cup final. They're not nearly as good as Munster or Leinster. Going on last season, Ulster are better than all four regions too.

You can rant on with conspiracy theories about refs (backed up by no evidence). And English fans can go on about how the Premiership is harder and that's why they lose to Irish teams in Europe. Funny that the most gracious team in defeat I've seen were Toulouse last year when Leinster knocked them out of Europe. Said they were happy with their performance and congratulated Leinster on being the better team on the day.

Maybe that's why they're a great club. They have the inner belief to take defeat on the chin graciously in the knowledge they'll have another crack next year. Maybe some of the deluded whingers like LordDowlais should learn something from the most successful club in Europe. There are bad refs. But all refs try their best. Accusing them of bias is an appalling slur on them, and is incredibly childish. Blues weren't good enough to put enough points on the board. That is a fact.

Feckless your missing the point of the debate, this isn't about the quality of Irish rugby. We are all aware this is the greatest dynasty in Irish rugby history, many of your best players of all time are currently playing in our lifetime, and no Welsh fan would want the Welsh regions to leave, or even not to play the Irish provinces. Clearly having both our nations teams in the RaboDirect enhances it. Lets face it, if Wales and / or Ireland pulled out the competition would be a joke and very one sided.
The Welsh clubs pounded the Scottish Provinces into oblivion year after year before the Irish joined and their still nearly always at the bottom, they had a lucky escape last year because the Italians joined, but they were still poor.

The only real issue that is being discussed is ONE Irish referee who has been simply shocking in every game he has refereed this season, and has given almost everything against the Welsh teams he has refereed.

by red_stag Sat 24 Sep 2011, 6:39 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Wilkinson is a useless ref and that's also a fact.

None off us are disputing that however I dont think this is your argument.

by Cymroglan Sat 24 Sep 2011, 6:48 pm

red_stag wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Wilkinson is a useless ref and that's also a fact.

None off us are disputing that however I dont think this is your argument.

What ?

by **Notch** Sat 24 Sep 2011, 6:51 pm

AlynDavies wrote:The only real issue that is being discussed is ONE Irish referee who has been simply shocking in every game he has refereed this season, and has given almost everything against the Welsh teams he has refereed.

Has he? You really seem to believe that he is really biased which astonishes me. I've seen no evidence of any bias or favouritism in any of his games and I would suggest if there was he wouldn't get games. To be a bad referee is disappointing for the league, and would stop you getting games if there were better referees available, but to be biased is unacceptable.

As unimpressive as he was, the penalty count was not really that much in Cardiffs favour. At one point, about 60 minutes in, the commentators mentioned that both sides had conceded 7 penalties each. The only decision you could really object to was Munster not getting a yellow card when they offended in the red zone near the end, which is just a judgement call. Nobody is saying he had a good game you understand but Cardiff took a bit too long to adapt to his interpretation. And instead of asking him how he wanted them to play the breakdown they talked back and questioned his judgements.

by **Notch** Sat 24 Sep 2011, 6:52 pm

Cymroglan wrote:
red_stag wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Wilkinson is a useless ref and that's also a fact.

None off us are disputing that however I dont think this is your argument.

What ?

He's saying that people have been saying referees are biased against their teams not that he's just a bad ref. To question a refs ability is valid. To question his integrity is out of line.

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