Tennis Rivalries

Just to balance out all the Federer swansong threads, AND in case any newcomers get the impression this is the last bastion of hard-core Federer fans, I thought it may be interesting to consider current rivalries, their dynamics and future.

A lot of people seem to allude that Nadal Djokovic rivalry has the potential to outdo Federer Nadal one: they are closer in age and have already played more matches.

Personally, I don't think there is a Nadal Djokovic rivalry, mainly as 2.0 Novak has little problem handling all Nadal has to throw at him.


Same with Nadal Federer, with the opposite trend.

The true rivalries have nothing to do with age, but all with games, so my favourite one is that of Djokovic Federer; not only do they have more evenly balanced match-up in terms of skill and game, but also throw in the palpable dislike that just adds a bit of spice to it all. They both have the number one arrogance about them, and there is naturally only room for one of them, which is why when they meet they give that extra bit.

A potentially good one could be Djokovic Murray, but so far Murray has not fully delivered and had a proper beak-through.

Nadal Murray, Federer Murray also offered up much promise two years ago but dwindled away due to the above reason.

You never know, Murray may chuck a Nole and surprise us all next year....in the meantime I look forward to the next slam. Why, aren't we almost guaranteed another Federer Nole semi

Agree Nitb, the best rivalry is fed and Novak. The bad blood between the two is palpable. And if you look at the matches they have produced in the last two USO, you would have to say that both matches where the matches of the 2010 and 11 opens. Roger's serve and variety can challenge Novak. And Novak is one of the few guys that can live with federer from the baseline off of both wings, and get at Roger's serve in crucial situations. As a Novak fan there is nobody I enjoy seeing Novak beat more than Roger, I guess that is one sign of a really good rivalry.

The only major rivalry is Federer/Djokovic as they love it more when they beat the other. Nadal seems to have that persona where you never really love beating him and rubbing it in his face (for his opponents).

Josiah Maiestas wrote:The only major rivalry is Federer/Djokovic as they love it more when they beat the other. Nadal seems to have that persona where you never really love beating him and rubbing it in his face (for his opponents).

Not in his face, maybe, but to be a fly on the wall ....

I am not convinced about Nadal having the better of Federer as consistently as Djoko v Nadal. After all the last 2 times they played it was pretty close and ....it was on clay.

That's the main difference between the Nadal v Djoko "rivalry". We know which way it's going. Between Fed and Nadal, it's always down to a point there and then and always has been. JUst that more often than not those couple of point go Nadal's way...but it's never a certitude unlike the Djoko v Nadal.

I think everyone's been too quick to say Djoko owns Nadal. It's only this year whereas Nadal has owned Federer for years. I know federer can make the matches close but for me most of the time the result is rarely in doubt; I'm always kind of watching in hope more than anything else.

Tenez wrote:I am not convinced about Nadal having the better of Federer as consistently as Djoko v Nadal. After all the last 2 times they played it was pretty close and ....it was on clay.

That's the main difference between the Nadal v Djoko "rivalry". We know which way it's going. Between Fed and Nadal, it's always down to a point there and then and always has been. JUst that more often than not those couple of point go Nadal's way...but it's never a certitude unlike the Djoko v Nadal.

I suppose. I only saw one of their matches live, last year WTF and Nadal looked so subdued, I don't know whether that was because it was live, but legend has it that a fan yelled out Noleisthebest! just as Federer was about to start serving in the 3rd set...The rest is history...
Having seen A magnificent Federer (esp the bakchand, withstood everything Nadal threw at him) that match, I must say I expected more from Federer at RG, but he truly must have burnt out in that SF match against Nole.
I really hope the draws start having Federer and Nadal in the same half, I think that a few matches between the two next year might give you the answer t your question which Federer was better, 2006 or the current one.

noleisthebest wrote:[I really hope the draws start having Federer and Nadal in the same half, I think that a few matches between the two next year might give you the answer t your question which Federer was better, 2006 or the current one.

Yep I agree. Even better for us Fedfans, Having Fed v Murray in the semis (shoudl Fed get back to number 2 at some stage). THat would certainly give him a better chance for slams.

noleisthebest
In your dreams Djokovics biggest rival will be Murray. I'm sure he would like nothing better than that. Just by saying often and loud that Djokovic has been reborn as a version 2 and that Nadal just because he has lost a few matches may as well retire - doesn't make it true.

Why not enjoy your favourite players best year. It shouldn't be necessary to constantly have digs at one of the all time great players in order to do so.

I read that in Belgrade when Djokovic returned to a hero's welcome with the Wimbledon trophy a huge crowd came out to welcome him. Many in the crowd had banners not with posative things about Djokovic on them but with nasty things about Nadal. Not a pleasant sight.

hawkeye wrote:noleisthebest
In your dreams Djokovics biggest rival will be Murray. I'm sure he would like nothing better than that. Just by saying often and loud that Djokovic has been reborn as a version 2 and that Nadal just because he has lost a few matches may as well retire - doesn't make it true.

Why not enjoy your favourite players best year. It shouldn't be necessary to constantly have digs at one of the all time great players in order to do so.

I read that in Belgrade when Djokovic returned to a hero's welcome with the Wimbledon trophy a huge crowd came out to welcome him. Many in the crowd had banners not with posative things about Djokovic on them but with nasty things about Nadal. Not a pleasant sight.

I don't know why you read so much negativity into what I say, I can only conclude that you must be a sore Nadal fan.

As for Murray, I generally don't play mind games and tend to say exactly what I think. So if I said that Murray Djokovic rivalry was on, that's exactly what I meant.
As for hero's welcome and the banners, I don't know anything about it, saw it all on Youtube, so wold be very interestend to know where you found out about nasty things written about Nadal, I mean that's pretty far-fethched.
Even if it was true, what's that got to do with this thread, there will always be people who exaggerate and get carried on EVERYWHERE. I'm sure nobody there had a Nadal effigy like they had Beckham's here in 1998.

So, if I were you, I'd fret a bit less and learn to accept other people's opinions without getting unnecessarily defensive.

Nitb: There is nothing negative about you, apart from plain and often in our face Djoko this Djoko that.

What rivalries of Djoko? Barely this year he defated Nadal after years of langushing on 3'd place, even sponsors gave up on him. What rivalry with Fed? A few matches this year and he is Fed's rival?

Djoko has no rivalry with anyone, he played well this year and that's it. When he plays like this consistently for next 2-3y then we can analyze.

You can't balance other threads about Fed were end of the era etc. is being discussed as Djoko is far away from that kind of level, and even if he wins another 10 GS he does not have anything special in his game to make him being remembered, apart from running like a marathon man.

Here is one of many pics from Belgrade when Djoko arrived from Wimby against Rafa, and there are many other Political/War style banners.



It says: "If only Rafa could see you drunk in Madrid - 7 Backhands".

So for the sake of tennis, refrain from trying to balance Fed/Nadal with Djoko as it's a no-no story. We all have our fav sports players, but with your ever so often blindingly one sided Đoković threads, this guy ain't getting any more fans, and neither are you.

[

It says: "If only Rafa could see you drunk in Madrid - 7 Backhands".

"So for the sake of tennis, refrain from trying to balance Fed/Nadal with Djoko as it's a no-no story. We all have our fav sports players, but with your ever so often blindingly one sided Đoković threads, this guy ain't getting any more fans, and neither are you. [/quote]"

Depressing. I'm off to bed

I don't know Serbian but have seen similar photo before. The translation I've seen was "Are you watching this from Madrid, Rafa, and keep practicing that backhand of yours"

That ones says exactly what i said. I speak Serbian

There are were other anti-Rafa banners, but can't be bothered to find them. Tells you enough.

Is Novak somehow responsible for all the history of serbia and the actions of its people? What exactly is the difference of this behavior and the beahvior of other over zealous over intoxicated fans in other countries? In america every year a team wins a championship the fans stage a miniriot. Jahu if you don't feel like Novak has anything special in his game maybe it is you who fail to comprehend with an open mind. One of the best returners in the history of the sport. One of the best if not best backhands on tour. And one of the top 10 forehands on tour. As for Nitb's in your face love of Djokovic so? Roger fans are about 100 times more in your face on this website and others than Novak fans. The guy who wears the crown deserves the accolades of success, even if he happens to be serbian, which seems to be the biggest knock of many of his detractors.

Novak is not Marshal Tito or Slobodan Milosevic, he does not have any police powers. So he should be blamed for yahoos who get drunk and make a few comical posters? Serbia has a better a track record by the way of prosecuting its war criminals when compared lets say to America or Israel. Was Jimmy Connors responsible for stoking American nationalism and the my lai massacre? I guess when your favorite players can't beat him on the tennis court the next best thing to do is to resort character assassination and ethnic pigeonholing.

socal1976 wrote:Is Novak somehow responsible for all the history of serbia and the actions of its people? What exactly is the difference of this behavior and the beahvior of other over zealous over intoxicated fans in other countries? In america every year a team wins a championship the fans stage a miniriot. Jahu if you don't feel like Novak has anything special in his game maybe it is you who fail to comprehend with an open mind. One of the best returners in the history of the sport. One of the best if not best backhands on tour. And one of the top 10 forehands on tour. As for Nitb's in your face love of Djokovic so? Roger fans are about 100 times more in your face on this website and others than Novak fans. The guy who wears the crown deserves the accolades of success, even if he happens to be serbian, which seems to be the biggest knock of many of his detractors.

Novak is not Marshal Tito or Slobodan Milosevic, he does not have any police powers. So he should be blamed for yahoos who get drunk and make a few comical posters? Serbia has a better a track record by the way of prosecuting its war criminals when compared lets say to America or Israel. Was Jimmy Connors responsible for stoking American nationalism and the my lai massacre? I guess when your favorite players can't beat him on the tennis court the next best thing to do is to resort character assassination and ethnic pigeonholing.

Now that we have found out their H2h is 4 - 1 and not 6 - 0 as we initially thought, and that Del Potro defeated Djokovic in the Davis Cup semis, you could perhaps include the Del Potro - Djokovic rivalry among the ones to watch, unless your "tennis brain" has some exception?

social. You touch on some scary stuff thats bubbling away beneath the surface. Nationalism and patriotism is not always a good thing. There is a long history of problems in football because of this. IMO there should be no place in tennis.

I like Novak and I'm not Serbian and I like Rafa and I'm not Spanish. I certainly don't want to be associated with any of that stuff.

But my previos comment was about being uncomfortable about Djokovic being celebrated by dissmising or even mocking one of the all time greats.

I have to agree with Jahu that this attitude in some of the over zeolous behaviour of his fans is extemely off putting and will not win Novak any fans. Look at most tennis sites and you will see examples. I have to disagree when you say Federer fans act in this way. I havn't seen any evidence to suggest it. None of it of course is Novaks fault.

I want no part of "the king is dead there is a new king" talk.

"Nationalism and patriotism is not always a good thing"

Actually, it's NEVER a good thing.

Social: I have no problem with Djoko, he's a nice guy on tour, plays well, likes to pretend he's sick and take medicals, quits matches, egg chambers and other nasty things on court, totally reminding me of Schumacher F1 dirty tactics.

Saying he's the best returner is like saying this or that is the best goalkeeper in football. Who remembers goalkeepers? Who gets excited watching them?

In any case he defended many "goals" this year and got his Slams, the problem I have is constant pushing of him in the ranks of Fed/Nadal by a few here, which is not the case and never will be.

As for his fans behavior, look at his picture with Tipsarevic shooting at him and Tipsy getting Nadal into it, tells you enough that Djoko likes to rub it in to his fans how much he hates Nadal, and than tells Nadal when he beats him that he is the best player ever, and then tells Federer before the match in US '11 that Fed is the best player ever, that's just slimy and low.

Djoko even has planed his wedding to take place in Kosovo (where Serbia has killed over 13.000 and still keeps over 2000 bodies there as a leverage for Eu talks, and kicked over a million people over the border), which is same as Prince William getting marrried in Dublin/Belfast. Thats the way he likes to touch the nationalistic nerve for his fans as he enjoys it.

Prosecuting war criminals? What? They made the war criminals, ordered them what to do, gave them shelter for years, and once Europe/US threatened with them not being able to join EU if they don't hand them, they gave 'em up. Serbia's biggest hope and friend is Vladimir Putin, and not just government friend, but overall populations. Tell's you who they love the most, the guy who has made Russia his private kindergarten. Don't get into politics please.

So these and a few other things that Hawkeye mentioned, are not just off putting, but makes you feel sad when he wins, as you know the guy doesn't have any great game and neither does he have a decent fair behavior.

There is no character assassination because my guy is loosing to him, I don't have a fav. guy and watch tennis for fun.

So who ever feels that Djoko is up there with Fed/Nadal, must be either on thin air or keep their opinions on PM, possible on encrypted form as not to be leaked any where else

Jahu,

this thread has been started for people who love tennis, not cheap daily politics and not the teenage fan "wars"
So unless you have something to say on the topic of tennis rivalries using tennis vocabulary, please find another venue to vent your frustrations.

If you are a fan of Federer Nadal rivalry, please tel us why you are a fan of it.
This thread is not a competition, just a place where people share their opinions.

Jeremy,

I don't know if you existed on the original 606, but in case you didn't, let me tell you that wumming attempts leave me cold.

But I'll humour you and invite you to expound your preference for Delpo Novak rivalry.

NITB: This thread as you said in OP was started to balance other Fed threads, and not about tennis, see this balancing is not working, and daily politics were started by Social, another Djoko politically uninformed fan.

I'm out of this politically charged nothing to do with tennis thread (but real nonetheless)

Jahu wrote:NITB: This thread as you said in OP was started to balance other Fed threads, and not about tennis, see this balancing is not working, and daily politics were started by Social, another Djoko politically uninformed fan.

The balancing idea was not to make this into a "give peace a chance" utopia thread, just to introduce another topic for discussion.
I have nothing against Fed threads, on the contrary, enjoyed them all and contribute a lot as Federer is my second favourite player, but thought it would be a good idea to spread the talk to other players,too.
Naturally, as a Novak fan I am best positioned to talk from my perspective and express my preferances, which is why the whole point of the thread was to have others say which rivalries they enjoy and why. This was not started as a Nole praising thread and neither was intended for the praise of other individual players per se.

Now be a good poster and tell us what your favourite rivalry is and why, feel free to comment on my opinion, but please don't drag it into any dirty waters, we're here because we love tennis.

Ok ok let's be friends now, care for a coffee in Basel Open on November?

Jahu wrote:Ok ok let's be friends now, care for a coffee in Basel Open on November?

Funny you should say that, I did live in Switzerland in 2005-6 and must say the Swiss know their coffees...and of all places, Basel was quite alright, although I was only passing through.
I'm not plannning to go back there, though, but will probalby be at the O2 for the WTF, so if you're around, the coffee invite is on

Now back to the topic...

noleisthebest wrote:

Jeremy,

I don't know if you existed on the original 606, but in case you didn't, let me tell you that wumming attempts leave me cold.

But I'll humour you and invite you to expound your preference for Delpo Novak rivalry.

Sorry I don't get it, your tennis brain is probably too complex for me. Where is the wumming attempt in stating a fact, that Serbia got the boot from Argentina in Davis and the Djoker lost to Delpo?

Anxious to know

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Jeremy,

I don't know if you existed on the original 606, but in case you didn't, let me tell you that wumming attempts leave me cold.

But I'll humour you and invite you to expound your preference for Delpo Novak rivalry.

Sorry I don't get it, your tennis brain is probably too complex for me. Where is the wumming attempt in stating a fact, that Serbia got the boot from Argentina in Davis and the Djoker lost to Delpo?

Anxious to know

Jeremy, you are being very naughty...especially as I've got mild flu and feel semi-dead. So, just tell us why you like a Novak Delpo rivalry.
It's the first time I heard anyone mention it as such and am quite curious.
In mu opinon, Novak's defensive game neutralises Delpo's power, Delpo never comes up with a plan B against Nole, so I don't see it as a rivalry. You obviously see something else which I don't so just say it! If you are a Delpo fan, you probably know his game and potential better than I.
I always have a lot of time for fervent fans because they see a player better than the rest and can throw new light for the rest.

JMDP / Djoko is not a rivalry for now but one I can see in the future. Delpo is clearly an attacking player whihc means confidence is everything and something that need building...bit like Djoko too but Djoko was always a good retriever so coudl fall back on defense when the confidence wasn't there.

The day gains in confidence, I can see him giving Djoko some trouble.

Tenez wrote:JMDP / Djoko is not a rivalry for now but one I can see in the future. Delpo is clearly an attacking player whihc means confidence is everything and something that need building...bit like Djoko too but Djoko was always a good retriever so coudl fall back on defense when the confidence wasn't there.

The day gains in confidence, I can see him giving Djoko some trouble.

Yes there were signs of that promise in their RG match. 2012 should be very interesting for Delpo as he's recovered now, I don't know if he can pick up his 2009 US form again, but too young not to be given benefit of the doubt.
Murray had a surge in 2008/9 and never picked up on that form again.

Tenez wrote:JMDP / Djoko is not a rivalry for now but one I can see in the future. Delpo is clearly an attacking player whihc means confidence is everything and something that need building...bit like Djoko too but Djoko was always a good retriever so coudl fall back on defense when the confidence wasn't there.

The day gains in confidence, I can see him giving Djoko some trouble.

I think I agree with tenez on this.

Perspectively, it looks like, at least to me, there's a great rivalry in the making. Del Potro was the N.4 in the world before having to pull out for a year. He is having a good run this year as well, considering he came back from the injury as the world number 485 and now is approaching the top ten, he has reached the Davis cup final defeating a strong team, and that he has in several occasion showed flashes of brilliance against both Nadal and the Djoker in Slams.

Glad you made sense of it! lots of typos!

Jahu, please he doesn't have a great game. That is your opinion and it isn't shared by the vast majority of tennis fans or commentators. A guy who doesn't have great game doesn't win 3 slams and go undefeated for nearly 6 months playing the toughest events the ATP has to offer. You may think nothing is memorable about Djokovic's game but mark my words he is quickly building his own legend and legacy.

No one says Novak is perfect, I have criticized djoko for the tipsy gun incident which was a bad form of humor. Novak has been very coutreous to both Nadal and fed, and you seem to want to hang the crimes or misdeeds of some of his countrymen somehow indirectly onto him. Why because he tries to be a good spokesman and role model for his country?

Myself I don't like nationalism or patriotism in the least, but it is a part of sports and if people want to cheer on the national team or their favorite sporting heros as long as they don't abuse other people I don't have much of a problem. If patriotism doesn't have a role in sports why even have national teams or olympics or a world cup? Maybe it is better to provide some sort of vent for these type of emotions in a peaceful and restrained manner, i don't know the answer. For myself I can say that I wouldn't kill or die for any country, religion, or race.

socal1976 wrote:If patriotism doesn't have a role in sports why even have national teams or olympics or a world cup? Maybe it is better to provide some sort of vent for these type of emotions in a peaceful and restrained manner, i don't know the answer. For myself I can say that I wouldn't kill or die for any country, religion, or race.

Arbitrary lines on a map get equated to nationalism. For example, if Serbia, Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosovo, Macedonia had remained one country and Novak had just won the USO, would that poster be written in Serbian or some other language?


Eastern Europe has gone through some tough times. When Nationalism becomes primitive Tribalism, it becomes a mechanism for making one ethnic group feel 'lower' than another, that is when problems start.

Lever says it nicely. It's the mentality of Yugo wars which makes sports in that region fully politicized. It's just how they are, when you have nothing to cheer about in a crumbling place, sport is the only thing to cheer.

When Serbia's president comes to Wimby to watch Djoko, while 60% of it's population lives barely above poverty line, what does it tell you?
Can't remember Spain or Swiss PM going watching their players around the world playing their finals, this is the real sports not mixed up with politics.

And for the national teams, do you agree that all countries that politics doesn't mess about in sport, do badly? i.e most National teams who win in any sport come from countries that are not up to Western standards, i.e politics keep them alive and pressured to perform, or else.

So dear social, chill out and leave politics away from tennis and especially away from Djoko as he is the top player to play those nationalistic emotions not so much to his playing advantage as much as for stiring his fans in Serbia to silly actions.

"When Serbia's president comes to Wimby to watch Djoko, while 60% of it's population lives barely above poverty line, what does it tell you?"
It tells me the guy is proud of Nole, as he should be.
Anyway, it was not Socal that brought politics here but you, And we are still all waiting for you to mention the word tennis ...and rivalries...ahem...

Keep defending your fellow social. I will, just doing some airport wondering

Back to the topic of current rivalries...

Despite having a relatively poor year IMO Nadal still remains the player to beat. With 10 slam titles, a positive H2H with all the top ten players, in fact a positve H2H with almost every player, the biggest win/loss record of any active player, virtually unbeaten on clay and at the age of 25 a long way from retirement.

His biggest rival - Federer H2H 17/8
This is the match up most popular with tennis fans and non tennis fans alike. Despite a losing H2H Federer has shown in the 2010 WTF that he can beat him. In the 2011 FO final he proved that he can play him close even on clay.

His nemisis in 2011 - Djokovic H2H 16/13
Djokovic had his best career year in 2011 and beat Nadal 6 times. Djokovic and Nadal often play highly physical matches. Djokovic is highly talented and at 24 is going nowhere. Expect these two to play many times in the future.

A rarity. A player that has a positive H2H with Nadal - Davydenko H2H 4/6
Due to injury hasn't had the best of years but has a game that can really trouble Nadal. Especially in 3 set matches.

Murray H2H 13/4
Has beaten Nadal twice in slams. Always plays his best against Nadal.

Tsonga H2H 6/2
On hardcourts Tsonga can play an all out attacking game that Nadal has no answer to as he showed in the AO final in 2008.

Poor old Fed, cursed forever with the achievement of being so good on his worst surface that he made countless finals against Nadal and so messed up a key h2h.

If only he'd been as good as Sampras on clay he'd have 15 Slams and the h2h against his rival would be no problem. Slam dunk, no problem. But he's better, and so he looks worse.

Just shows how there are lies, damn lies.........

hawkeye wrote:Back to the topic of current rivalries...

Despite having a relatively poor year IMO Nadal still remains the player to beat

Really?

bogbrush wrote:Poor old Fed, cursed forever with the achievement of being so good on his worst surface that he made countless finals against Nadal and so messed up a key h2h.

BB, Did Federer not say that he grew up on European clay?

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Really?

Just changing a few words in BB's quote...

Poor old Nadal, cursed forever with the achievement of being so good on his worst surface that he made countless finals against Djokovic in 2011 and so messed up a key h2h.

Just six (6) finals this year between Djokovic and Nadal (on all three surfaces).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=D643&oId=N409

In contrast, Federer has 14 Clay finals/semi-finals with 2-12 h2h (Madrid 2009 and Hamburg 2007). He would have a couple of Grand Slams, if not for Rafa.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Back to the topic of current rivalries...

Despite having a relatively poor year IMO Nadal still remains the player to beat

Really?

Well yes... Djokovic beat him a few times this year but who else did? Looking at the bigger picture (not just recent history) he is still the player to beat.

Nadal and Djokovic would implode after 5 games if they had to play by the 20s rule. It's so clear they could not sustain those rallies within the tennis rule!

I know we have debated that before but watching their matches after the event, makes it much clearer that they are abusing the rule to allow their games to thrive.

With 20s only, rivalries might be different.

With 20s only, rivalries might be different.

Agree, Dolgopolov would bounce both them out had they played in the right way.

Tenez wrote:With 20s only, rivalries might be different.

Just wait till the petition from players comes out of Shanghai and the players may request 60 seconds or they will strike.

It would not surprise me LF!...though they might be out voted on that one.

Jahu, I don't really get your post. It is wrong for the president of a country to turn up to watch a tennis match is his country faces serious problems? I come from a third world country and have lived my whole life in the most first world of nations. What would you say to the queen of Spain showing up in the locker room of their world cup winning team when 20 percent of their nation face unemployement? Or George Bush inviting the super bowl winners to the whitehouse or showing up for the olympics as American troops die in Iraq?

Secondly, living in a third world country with a dark history forces the people to tie themselves to little bits of glory from sports or other achievements. It helps them get through the tough times. These countries, my own included suffer from an inferiority complex, it is easy for the swiss the richest country in the world to be cool and restrained in the face of Roger's achievements. But maybe these people need something to feel good about, and is there something wrong in that?

Laverfan, nationalism in sports in many ways has provided the people a vent. Europeans don't kill each other anymore in battles but get to waive the flags every time the three lions or the Orange play. I prefer the other alternative. It is fun to belong, and Novak's fans as boisterous as they are not contributing to ethnic cleansing or hate. Why because a few of them poke fun at Nadal? Never heard of a big Spanish-Serbian blood feud.

USO 2011.

Nadal-Djokovic - four sets - 268 total points - 250 minutes of match time - Average is ~0.94 minutes/point.

Djokovic-Federer - five sets - 304 total points - 231 minutes of match time - Average is ~0.76 minutes/point (almost 20% faster).

Very interesting. Implies that Djokovic is capable of playing quickly.

...more like Federer makes up for most of the 20% cut down time.

socal1976 wrote:Laverfan, nationalism in sports in many ways has provided the people a vent. Europeans don't kill each other anymore in battles but get to waive the flags every time the three lions or the Orange play. I prefer the other alternative.

We should perhaps consider a separate thread.

Vent, but at what cost? Have you heard of Football riots?

You are contradicting yourself here. Europeans are involved in two major wars, Iraq and Afghanistan. Just because they fight inside some other country's territorial boundary does not mean much, does it? . Is Nato not bombing Libya, did it not bomb Serbia, despite all moral justifications. Ten years of schmoozing Gaddafi for Oil and then SAS and CIA with Nato provide support for regime change.

There are skeletons in many closets.

Yes precisely my point, every country has major skeletons, yet somehow Novak for showing pride in his country gets tarred with all the skeletons of his country by some people. He is serbian therefore somehow he approves of bad stuff happening to croats and bosnians. One of the most heartwarming things about Novak and really one of the things that turned me on to him was when I watched one of his first matches against Ljubi and how out of his way he went to show the guy respect. Goran is from what I have heard a good friend of his. Why is it that british or American athletes don't get tarred with brush of imperial mass murder but Novak gets tarred with the brush of Serbian warcriminals? What does one have to do with the other? And maybe he doesn't feel like the serbs got a fair shake in all political matters, there actually is a good case to be made for that in some respects. Some serbs did terrible things, and some serbs had terrible things done to them. And some serbs fought to oust milosevic. I don't even want to get too political, but it seems like this thread is pulling me that way. One can not always attribute the actions of a government or a party to a particular individual. Even if that person is patriotic to his country and his people.