Tennis Rivalries

by noleisthebest Sun 25 Sep 2011 - 17:14

First topic message reminder :

Just to balance out all the Federer swansong threads, AND in case any newcomers get the impression this is the last bastion of hard-core Federer fans, I thought it may be interesting to consider current rivalries, their dynamics and future.

A lot of people seem to allude that Nadal Djokovic rivalry has the potential to outdo Federer Nadal one: they are closer in age and have already played more matches.

Personally, I don't think there is a Nadal Djokovic rivalry, mainly as 2.0 Novak has little problem handling all Nadal has to throw at him.

Same with Nadal Federer, with the opposite trend.

The true rivalries have nothing to do with age, but all with games, so my favourite one is that of Djokovic Federer; not only do they have more evenly balanced match-up in terms of skill and game, but also throw in the palpable dislike that just adds a bit of spice to it all. They both have the number one arrogance about them, and there is naturally only room for one of them, which is why when they meet they give that extra bit.

A potentially good one could be Djokovic Murray, but so far Murray has not fully delivered and had a proper beak-through.

Nadal Murray, Federer Murray also offered up much promise two years ago but dwindled away due to the above reason.

You never know, Murray may chuck a Nole and surprise us all next year....in the meantime I look forward to the next slam. Why, aren't we almost guaranteed another Federer Nole semi laughing

by Jahu Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 18:48

Social, give it a rest buddy. I don't think you are capable or informed to be discussing political background of a certain nation, and neither will you convince or change anyones mind about Djoko.

It seems you're feeling a little guilty for supporting Djoko and you're trying to explain to us the political side, which no one cares.

Chill out and enjoy the game.

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 19:01

This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

by socal1976 Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 19:14

Jahu wrote:Social, give it a rest buddy. I don't think you are capable or informed to be discussing political background of a certain nation, and neither will you convince or change anyones mind about Djoko.

It seems you're feeling a little guilty for supporting Djoko and you're trying to explain to us the political side, which no one cares.

Chill out and enjoy the game.

How do you know what i am informed to discuss, you are trying to somehow pin the recent dark history of the balkans on Novak and his boisterous fans. It seems to me like you are the one who isn't informed. I have no problem sticking to the tennis. You are the one who brought this whole nationalism debate, now you are losing it and you pretend that I am bringing up the political side. I am just answering your charges.

By the way I do enjoy the game, have managed about 2000 plus posts on the topic without broaching this subject till you started talking about evil serbian fans and nationalism. I'd be happy to leave this topic and never talk about it again frankly. By the way, I have a degree in history and and juris doctorate in law. And know more about history than I know about tennis, I feel completely competent to discuss this topic if I choose. i just don't, because it is generally uninteresting, unless people decide to bring it up, then I will talk about it.

by Jahu Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 19:16

Youtube guy is hight on serbian grass. Confirms this whole thread.

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 19:47

Jahu wrote:Youtube guy is hight on serbian grass. Confirms this whole thread.

Have a puff brov Laugh

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 19:51

socal1976 wrote:
Jahu wrote:Social, give it a rest buddy. I don't think you are capable or informed to be discussing political background of a certain nation, and neither will you convince or change anyones mind about Djoko.

It seems you're feeling a little guilty for supporting Djoko and you're trying to explain to us the political side, which no one cares.

Chill out and enjoy the game.

How do you know what i am informed to discuss, you are trying to somehow pin the recent dark history of the balkans on Novak and his boisterous fans. It seems to me like you are the one who isn't informed. I have no problem sticking to the tennis. You are the one who brought this whole nationalism debate, now you are losing it and you pretend that I am bringing up the political side. I am just answering your charges.

By the way I do enjoy the game, have managed about 2000 plus posts on the topic without broaching this subject till you started talking about evil serbian fans and nationalism. I'd be happy to leave this topic and never talk about it again frankly. By the way, I have a degree in history and and juris doctorate in law. And know more about history than I know about tennis, I feel completely competent to discuss this topic if I choose. i just don't, because it is generally uninteresting, unless people decide to bring it up, then I will talk about it.

I think Jahu is here just to pick a fight, so is upset nobody indulged him/her. We have waited aall day to hear something tennis-related and still nothing laughing

by Jahu Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 20:07

My fav. thread, fighting 2 Djoko fans.

Social since when is Wikipedia counted as a degree in History? Even if you pretend you know History, most of the stuff you said in this thread is nonsense and nothing to do with reality, apart from your insistence of defending Djokos attitude on extreme nationalistic front and his fan base behavior.

Many posts ago I said let's forget this and carry on with the thread but you seem inclined to convince us of your history-politics knowledge.

Nitb: This thread was your not so successful try to derail other non-Djoko threads, and see where you got us all stuck in this non-genuine tennis related thread, with Social beating us all in Wiki History, so based on this I will not say anyting tennis related in this thread, because Social/Nitb have made a packt to annoy us all with Djoko threads of no essence.

Who want's a nice and warm apple cake

& cream is welcome .

by hawkeye Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 22:33

noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 22:48

hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

You see Hawkeye, I disagree with almost everything you say and think, but I won't ask you to stop posting your preferences. I'll just accept them as yours.
Either that or, where do I start....

by hawkeye Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 23:14

noleisthebest wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

You see Hawkeye, I disagree with almost everything you say and think, but I won't ask you to stop posting your preferences. I'll just accept them as yours.
Either that or, where do I start....

Oh! So you don't like poetry...?

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 23:25

hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

You see Hawkeye, I disagree with almost everything you say and think, but I won't ask you to stop posting your preferences. I'll just accept them as yours.
Either that or, where do I start....

Oh! So you don't like poetry...?

I do. Here's one of my favourites:

Paul Verlaine

Art poétique

De la musique avant toute chose,
Music before everything else,
Et pour cela préfère l'Impair
and for that matter, prefer the odd,
Plus vague et plus soluble dans l'air,
more undefined and more soluble in the air,
Sans rien en lui qui pèse ou qui pose.
with nothing in it that's heavy or static.

Il faut aussi que tu n'ailles point
And you must never set out
Choisir tes mots sans quelque méprise;
to choose your words without some imprecision;
Rien de plus cher que le chanson grise
there's nothing dearer than a song that's cloudy,
Où l'Indécis au Précis se joint.
in which the indistinct and the precise are joined.

C'est de beaux yeux derrière des voiles,
It's beautiful eyes behind veils;
C'est le grand jour tremblant de midi,
it's broad daylight trembling at noon;
C'est par un ciel d'automne attiédi,
it's, cooled by an autumn sky,
Le bleu fouillis des claires étoiles!
the blue jumble of bright stars!

Car nous voulons la Nuance encor,
For we want nuance,
Pas la couleur, rien que la Nuance!
not color, nothing but nuance!
Oh! la nuance seule fiance
Oh, only nuance joins together
Le rêve au rêve et la flûte au cor!
Dream to dream and flute to horn!

Fuis du plus loin la Pointe assassine,
Stay far away from the murderous barb,
L'Esprit cruel et le Rire impur,
cruel wit and impure laughter --
Qui font pleurer les yeux de l'Azur,
which bring tears to heaven's eyes --
Et tout cet ail de basse cuisine!
and all that other garlic of bad cuisine!

Prends l'éloquence et tords-lui son cou!
Take eloquence and wring its neck!
Tu feras bien, en train d'énergie,
You'll do well, while you've got the strength,
De rendre en peu la Rime assagie.
to make rhyme a little smarter.
Si l'on n'y veille, elle ira jusqu'ou?
If you don't pay attention to it, where will it wind up?

O qui dira les torts de la rime!
O who can tell the wrongs done by rhyme!
Quel enfant sourd ou quel nègre fou
What dull child or mad Negro
Nous a forgé ce bijou d'un sou
created for us this worthless jewel
Que sonne creux et faux sous la lime?
that sounds hollow and fake when put to the test?

De la musique encore et toujours!
Music again and forever!
Que ton vers soit la chose envolée
Let your verse be a thing that flies
Qu'on sent qui fuit d'une âme en allée
so it feels like a soul traveling
Vers d'autres cieux à d'autres amours.
to other skies and other loves.

Que ton vers soit la bonne aventure
May your verse be a fine adventure
Éparse au vent crispé du matin
scattered to the blustery morning wind
Qui va fleurant la menthe et le thym ...
that smells of mint and thyme ...
Et tout le reste est littérature.
Everything else is literature.
--Paul Verlaine

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 23:25

English translation:

Art Poétique, By Paul Verlaine
Translation by Eli Siegel
Of music before everything—
And for this like the Odd more—
Vaguer and more melting in air,
Without anything in it which weighs or arrests.

It must also be that you do not go about
Choosing your words without some carelessness:
Nothing dearer than the greyish song
Where the Wavering and Precise are joined.

Something like beautiful eyes behind veils,
Something like the trembling wide day of noon,
Something like (when made gentle by an autumn sky)
The blue jumble of clear stars!

For we desire Nuance yet more—
Not color, nothing but Nuance!
Oh! only nuance brings
Dream to dream and flute to horn!

Keep away from the murderous Sharp Saying,
Cruel Wit and Impure Laugh,
Which make weep the eyes of Blue Space—
And all that garlic of low cooking.

Take eloquence and wring its neck!
You will do well, in energetic mood,
To use Rhyme made wise somewhat.
If it is not watched, where may it not go?

Oh, who can tell the wrong-doings of Rhyme?
What deaf child or mad black man
Has made for us this penny toy,
That sounds hollow and false heard precisely.

Let music be, more of it and always!
Let your verse be the thing in motion
Which one feels who flees from an altering soul,
Towards other skies to other loves.

Let your verse be the happy occurrence,
Somehow within the restless morning wind,
Which goes about smelling of mint and thyme...
And all the rest is literature.

by Tenez Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 23:32

Ou as tu appris le French NITB? Am impressed.

by noleisthebest Mon 26 Sep 2011 - 23:49

Tenez wrote:Ou as tu appris le French NITB? Am impressed.

Not really, just a tiny bit Doh

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:14

Jahu wrote:My fav. thread, fighting 2 Djoko fans.

Social since when is Wikipedia counted as a degree in History? Even if you pretend you know History, most of the stuff you said in this thread is nonsense and nothing to do with reality, apart from your insistence of defending Djokos attitude on extreme nationalistic front and his fan base behavior.

Many posts ago I said let's forget this and carry on with the thread but you seem inclined to convince us of your history-politics knowledge.

Nitb: This thread was your not so successful try to derail other non-Djoko threads, and see where you got us all stuck in this non-genuine tennis related thread, with Social beating us all in Wiki History, so based on this I will not say anyting tennis related in this thread, because Social/Nitb have made a packt to annoy us all with Djoko threads of no essence.

Who want's a nice and warm apple & cream is welcome .

Jahu, I am glad that you can discern everything about a person from an internet chat site. If this is what you call facts and knowledge well I don't really feel the need to prove myself to you. You are the one doing the fighting bro, you have a problem with Novak and Serbians that is your issue to deal with. I am not serbian, and by the way Mr. expert on everything learn to read, my name is socal, not social. Is this the same level of reading comprehension you displayed when acquiring your vast reservoir of knowledge?

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:18

hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

By far the nastiest fans on the internet are Roger fans, another reason that I find it hard to appreciate the maestro. Nitb and myself would hardly be objectively decried as nasty, when have we been nasty to anyone. We sat through years of listening to constant Federer and Nadal talk and somehow when our favorite player is having a historic year we are the ones cramming his success down other people's throats? Nitb can share her passion, by far the most in your face fans of any tennis on each and every site I have ever visited are federer fans. If you think me and Nitb are nasty try reading some of the federistas and their posts.

by time please Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:34

socal1976 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

By far the nastiest fans on the internet are Roger fans, another reason that I find it hard to appreciate the maestro. Nitb and myself would hardly be objectively decried as nasty, when have we been nasty to anyone. We sat through years of listening to constant Federer and Nadal talk and somehow when our favorite player is having a historic year we are the ones cramming his success down other people's throats? Nitb can share her passion, by far the most in your face fans of any tennis on each and every site I have ever visited are federer fans. If you think me and Nitb are nasty try reading some of the federistas and their posts.

that's uncalled for imo socal, and what a funny excuse for not being able to appreciate Roger - you don't like his fans!!! I don't think for one moment that hawkeye was calling you or nitb nasty. I don't think that this particular fan in the video is anything to do with Novak, and I have to say hawkeye I don't really see what the point is in bringing this up - there are nutters out there who support Roger (as socal so sweetly has pointed out) and loonies that support Rafa, of course as the most successful player this year Novak will attract more than his fair share atm. What matters is that his on court behaviour is great and he has entertained us all.

I can't believe your post socal, really I can't - I don't see why some people are so hyper sensitive about their favourite players, I have kept quiet on a number of threads where you have made negative comments about Roger and I haven't reacted because it is your right to an opinion. This is about the fifth time that I have seen you make the comment that Federer fans are 'in your face' 'the worst', etc, etc. Talk about generalization and talk about playground sensitivities.

You know I think Federer is the greatest ever, not least for the way he has won and conducted himself on court, but it doesn't matter to me if you have a different opinion or if someone else thinks Nadal is - why should it? I might make a point or two in Fed's favour on such a thread but I don't get upset because other people have different, and sometimes strongly held and passionately expressed, opinions to me Headscratch

and then start making asides about fans of certain players.

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:49

Not every fed fan timeplease. But I call it like I see it. You don't see Nadal fans on this or other sites constantly character assassinating federer or Djokovic or coming up with warped theories about how these two are not talented or cheat. You don't see Djoko fans attacking federer or Nadal. But a certain portion of federer fans are constantly launching personal attacks on these two players, their fans, attempting to demean them. And of course I don't mean all federer fans, most fed fans are really nice. But in general the largest percentage of nasty fans of a particular player are Roger fans. How many anti-Roger threads are there on this site, how many do Roger fans do on Nadal? Are the percentages even close?

Sorry, we sat through Roger is this, Roger is that for 8 years. Roger's bum smells like fresly picked roses. Roger can beat up a grizzly bear with one hand tied behind his back, Roger is gandhi in tennis shorts. Funny the Roger fans don't have problem in posting for 8 years federer is great threads, but if some other players fans do the same thing for 8 months some of them turn nasty.

by time please Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:52

I have to go now - out to supper and my head hurts! I really haven't seen anyone turn nasty here, but perhaps I am being insensitive?

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 18:59

Enjoy dinner, timeplease.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:24

Social pulling his guns again!

But Djoko is not great, he's been good this year, thats about it, while Fed/Nadal fans talking about them as greats, is totally in a different league to Djoko.

Live with it, as Djoko will never be on par with them too, nothing to be defensive or attack fans of other players.

by break_in_the_fifth Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:29

lol social...

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:34

Good that is your opinion, stick to it, don't care to change your mind not worth my time or energy. I will continue to post about my favorite player whether he wins 10 more slams or zero. I am the one pulling guns, did you check out your last couple of posts before this one? For someone who claims Novak and his fans are nationalistic and mean spirited I find your level of hypocrisy pretty amusing.

I am glad you don't like Novak, I think you are in for a rough ride then for the next couple of years. Nothing is a bigger sign of success than fostering irrational hate from critics.

by break_in_the_fifth Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:38

How could anyone have a problem with Novak, he has the second most interesting game of the top 4 at the moment.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:39

Even if I don't like Djoko, I don't hate him or cultivate any negative feelings about him. He is nationalisitic and his fans are extreme nationalists as Djoko himself likes to touch the nationalistic nerve, it has been proven and ongoing, especially his fans against other players.

If Nadal/Fed/Murray play Djoko, then I am for anyone that beats Djoko, simple.

You continue posting about Djoko, and I from time to time, will try to make sure you are firmly on ground and not day dreaming constantly about your hero.

by noleisthebest Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:43

"You continue posting about Djoko, and I from time to time, will try to make sure you are firmly on ground and not day dreaming constantly about your hero."
priceless! Laugh

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:44

Break in, I think a certain Japoo has a problem with serbians in general I sense a thin layer of racial antagonism. i could be wrong unlike our japoo friend I can not discern everything about his life or credentials from a few internet posts, or at least lack the arrogance to assume that I can.

Certainly, do agree with you Novak's game is very entertaining to me. He can both attack and defend based on whatever the match calls for. And I find his impish personality also interesting although it can get him into trouble.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:45

Nitb, thx, for everything else, there's MC Hug

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:47

If Nadal/Fed/Murray play Djoko, then I am for anyone that beats Djoko, simple.

Japoo

Great then that means you have been happy in exactly 2 out 13 matches this year. Hope Novak keeps turning your smile upside down.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:49

Social, don't bother with racial stuff as it ain't true, don't derail the subject. I have many Serb, Croat and other ex-Yu friends.

Sure you keep loving Djoko but don't try to squash fans of other players or complain why no one agrees with you about Djoko greatness.

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 19:53

I don't complain, and like I said I don't know enough of about you to make any judgement about you as a person. More and more people are starting to agree with me by the way about Novak's greatness, Japoo. I could care less if anyone else likes Novak or thinks he is great. I don't try to squash fans of other players, but I find it interesting how most of the negative stuff on other players is generated by small segment of myopic fed fans. And this is a trend I have seen not only on this site but on many others.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 20:00

But I'm not a Fed fan per se, like his way of play, like Nadal a little less and Murray just for being a scruffy guy. See I don't go to watch tennis to feel good about fans of the other player who loses, I enjoy it and for me anyone that has a interesting game/personality is ok with me to win.

Djoko is not one of them.

And no, no one is starting to agree with you about Djoko greatness, it's just you now jumping from day-dreaming, to night-dreaming.

by socal1976 Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 20:08

Good you are free to like whoever you like. Novak isn't the only player I enjoy watching and will be a fan of the game after he leaves and was a fan before. Frankly, none of the other big 4 are even in my top 5 of favorite players to watch. I have done threads on Nadal, Murray, and Federer by the way; negative and positive. But since my favorite player is having a historic season i am enjoying it. And will continue to enjoy it, and I don't feel the need to restrain my enthusiasm because you don't like Novak or his fans. I hope you enjoy this season as much as I have. By the way your two greats of all time are a combined 1-10 against Djokovic, must be pretty awful for them losing that many times to a player who isn't even great.

Goodnight, got better things to do like go to sleep. If you like keep posting and I'll respond tomorrow.

by Jahu Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 20:16

I'm not immersed into stats who has what ratio with Djoko, the bigger picutre says, Djoko is far away from Fed/Nadal, and it will be like that forever.

You keep watching stats.

by Liam_Main Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 21:27

Let's not ruin a great thread guys, stop posting jibes at each other.

by Leff Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 21:34

There was a time when we had:

Borg vs Connors vs MacEnroe vs Lendl

and no one-sided matches.

by noleisthebest Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 21:56

Leff wrote:There was a time when we had:

Borg vs Connors vs MacEnroe vs Lendl

and no one-sided matches.

so what went wrong?

by hawkeye Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 22:15

time please wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:This guy seems to understand what Nole's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVt7oe-5iQ

Please stop posting stuff like that. Much as I like Djokovic its making it difficult to support someone with such crazy (in a bad way) and nasty fans. After watching Federer and Nadal in the 2008 Wimbledon final Djokovic said "he still had a lot to learn". He still does and I'm sure he would be the first to admit it. So do his fans.

This would be a good place to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-JCJCUy18

By far the nastiest fans on the internet are Roger fans, another reason that I find it hard to appreciate the maestro. Nitb and myself would hardly be objectively decried as nasty, when have we been nasty to anyone. We sat through years of listening to constant Federer and Nadal talk and somehow when our favorite player is having a historic year we are the ones cramming his success down other people's throats? Nitb can share her passion, by far the most in your face fans of any tennis on each and every site I have ever visited are federer fans. If you think me and Nitb are nasty try reading some of the federistas and their posts.

that's uncalled for imo socal, and what a funny excuse for not being able to appreciate Roger - you don't like his fans!!! I don't think for one moment that hawkeye was calling you or nitb nasty. I don't think that this particular fan in the video is anything to do with Novak, and I have to say hawkeye I don't really see what the point is in bringing this up - there are nutters out there who support Roger (as socal so sweetly has pointed out) and loonies that support Rafa, of course as the most successful player this year Novak will attract more than his fair share atm. What matters is that his on court behaviour is great and he has entertained us all.

I can't believe your post socal, really I can't - I don't see why some people are so hyper sensitive about their favourite players, I have kept quiet on a number of threads where you have made negative comments about Roger and I haven't reacted because it is your right to an opinion. This is about the fifth time that I have seen you make the comment that Federer fans are 'in your face' 'the worst', etc, etc. Talk about generalization and talk about playground sensitivities.

You know I think Federer is the greatest ever, not least for the way he has won and conducted himself on court, but it doesn't matter to me if you have a different opinion or if someone else thinks Nadal is - why should it? I might make a point or two in Fed's favour on such a thread but I don't get upset because other people have different, and sometimes strongly held and passionately expressed, opinions to me and then start making asides about fans of certain players.

time please. Please re-read the posts. It wasn't me that posted that horrible fan video. It was nitb. She said that the guy in the video "understood what Nole's about". I responded because I don't think thats what Djokovics is about. I would like to think he would be as shocked as I am by such crass behaviour. I posted the video of Nadal and Federer reading the poem "If" because amongst other things it talked about treating triumph and disaster in the same way. Definately not using triumph as an excuse to belittle an opponant. I'm sure that Djokovic has nothing but respect for both Nadal and Federer. Players that will go down in history as amongst the best ever. But also players that will be remembered for their dignity and sportsmanship off the court. Its a shame some of his fans don't appear to understand this.

by time please Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 23:30

Really sorry hawkeye - I forgot who posted it first. I understand now why you posted the Rafa/Roger thing in conjunction with it.

Okay nitb - I don't know why you posted it - there must be some much more engaging and likeable fans of Djokovic posting on you tube!!

by time please Tue 27 Sep 2011 - 23:40

Socal, the way some of this thread has gone since I left for supper I am beginning to have a lot more sympathy for your hyper sensitivity! Wink

I understand that Roger's fans have got up your nose in the past, but I am sure they were not allowed to post gushing elegy after sycophantic tribute without someone like you putting them straight? laughing

I don't think they (I'm excluding myself here because I am a relative novice on forums!) were just given carte blanche to rule cyberspace unchallenged?

Certainly when I first began reading or contributing occasionally in early 2009, it took a great deal of carefully acquired insouciance to stick one's head above the water and post anything positive about Roger without a hundred and one people decrying everything he had ever achieved in favour of Rafa.........but clearly it looked different if you were not a particular admirer of his?

by time please Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 0:10

socal1976 wrote:Not every fed fan timeplease. But I call it like I see it. You don't see Nadal fans on this or other sites constantly character assassinating federer or Djokovic

Oh of course there are....I won't point you in the direction of one particular fan site that has enormous problems with Djokovic...you can find with a bit of lateral thinking but you won't enjoy the sentiments.

There are hyper sensitive fans out there for every player and plenty of perfectly sane ones for the same players as well. Actually I think if we are going to generalise, Fed's seem to be a bit more robust - but perhaps they have had to be in the last few years? laughing

by socal1976 Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 6:34

Timeplease on old 606 95 percent of the posts were about Andy, Roger, and Rafa. I participated on that site, and on those threads. I never complained about why people were talking about those three. I never attempted to restrain other people's enthusiasm one way or the other. And I don't complain like a whiny child in a long car ride about how people were cramming these players down my throat. Now me and Nitb after a 2 year long slump post a few threads about Djokovic and all of sudden, people are outrage. Hey the guy won virtually every major tournament he played in this year, with rare exception. What else should we talk about Serena williams outfits or outbursts, Andy Murray's chin hair?

And I do realize the distinction between normal sane federer fan and the jihadist element faction. But I have to say, while some Rafa fans are negative about Roger, and some Djoko fans may cross the line. My experience with online sites by far the most denigrating and negative fans in terms of percentages, when it comes to other players and fans are Roger fans.

by time please Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 9:41

socal1976 wrote:Timeplease on old 606 95 percent of the posts were about Andy, Roger, and Rafa. I participated on that site, and on those threads. I never complained about why people were talking about those three. I never attempted to restrain other people's enthusiasm one way or the other. And I don't complain like a whiny child in a long car ride about how people were cramming these players down my throat. Now me and Nitb after a 2 year long slump post a few threads about Djokovic and all of sudden, people are outrage. Hey the guy won virtually every major tournament he played in this year, with rare exception. What else should we talk about Serena williams outfits or outbursts, Andy Murray's chin hair?

And I do realize the distinction between normal sane federer fan and the jihadist element faction. But I have to say, while some Rafa fans are negative about Roger, and some Djoko fans may cross the line. My experience with online sites by far the most denigrating and negative fans in terms of percentages, when it comes to other players and fans are Roger fans.

Whatever socal - have you ever considered, if this is your experience, that maybe some of the 'denigrating' has been a little defensive as Fed has lost some of his dominance? There are a few forums where Nadal fans are vigorously rebutting the fact that Novak has the advantage over him, and I daresay when someone rears up to challenge Novak you will see the same again.

You should look at this thread which I think might surprise you, I include one post from Tenez below:

Re: Was Federer better in 2006?

Post by Tenez on Sun 25 Sep 2011 - 1:16
It's like I hear a lot of people saying Nadal is not as good as last year. BS!!! He is much better actually. The difference is that there is an even better player out there.

As a fan of Federer, I would love to be able to say that today;s Fed is half of yesterday. But that that day hasn;t arrived and to me he is simply a more slid player now.

by socal1976 Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 10:11

Timeplease, of course their reaction is defensive it isn't any less annoying. When Novak was young and he was losing more often I didn't lash out at other players, Nitb certainly didn't. The federer fans of the extremist ilk are the worst offenders and that is what I see.

by noleisthebest Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 10:14

time please wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Timeplease on old 606 95 percent of the posts were about Andy, Roger, and Rafa. I participated on that site, and on those threads. I never complained about why people were talking about those three. I never attempted to restrain other people's enthusiasm one way or the other. And I don't complain like a whiny child in a long car ride about how people were cramming these players down my throat. Now me and Nitb after a 2 year long slump post a few threads about Djokovic and all of sudden, people are outrage. Hey the guy won virtually every major tournament he played in this year, with rare exception. What else should we talk about Serena williams outfits or outbursts, Andy Murray's chin hair?

And I do realize the distinction between normal sane federer fan and the jihadist element faction. But I have to say, while some Rafa fans are negative about Roger, and some Djoko fans may cross the line. My experience with online sites by far the most denigrating and negative fans in terms of percentages, when it comes to other players and fans are Roger fans.

Whatever socal - have you ever considered, if this is your experience, that maybe some of the 'denigrating' has been a little defensive as Fed has lost some of his dominance? There are a few forums where Nadal fans are vigorously rebutting the fact that Novak has the advantage over him, and I daresay when someone rears up to challenge Novak you will see the same again.

You should look at this thread which I think might surprise you, I include one post from Tenez below:

Re: Was Federer better in 2006?

Post by Tenez on Sun 25 Sep 2011 - 1:16
It's like I hear a lot of people saying Nadal is not as good as last year. BS!!! He is much better actually. The difference is that there is an even better player out there.

As a fan of Federer, I would love to be able to say that today;s Fed is half of yesterday. But that that day hasn;t arrived and to me he is simply a more slid player now.

I've just posted my thoughts on the old/new Federer on Tenez's thread, but to add, I think Federer of 2011 as better mainly because he has hat to use his talent more, and we see its depth better, he's got more game now, just has stiffer opposition, he has had to embrace the new generation, the new game and in my opinion he has risen to the challenge beautifully.
I wish journalists and his own fans would stop being so demanding of him. I'd be so proud of Nole if he does the same when he's 30.

by time please Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 11:04

noleisthebest wrote:
time please wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Timeplease on old 606 95 percent of the posts were about Andy, Roger, and Rafa. I participated on that site, and on those threads. I never complained about why people were talking about those three. I never attempted to restrain other people's enthusiasm one way or the other. And I don't complain like a whiny child in a long car ride about how people were cramming these players down my throat. Now me and Nitb after a 2 year long slump post a few threads about Djokovic and all of sudden, people are outrage. Hey the guy won virtually every major tournament he played in this year, with rare exception. What else should we talk about Serena williams outfits or outbursts, Andy Murray's chin hair?

And I do realize the distinction between normal sane federer fan and the jihadist element faction. But I have to say, while some Rafa fans are negative about Roger, and some Djoko fans may cross the line. My experience with online sites by far the most denigrating and negative fans in terms of percentages, when it comes to other players and fans are Roger fans.

Whatever socal - have you ever considered, if this is your experience, that maybe some of the 'denigrating' has been a little defensive as Fed has lost some of his dominance? There are a few forums where Nadal fans are vigorously rebutting the fact that Novak has the advantage over him, and I daresay when someone rears up to challenge Novak you will see the same again.

You should look at this thread which I think might surprise you, I include one post from Tenez below:

Re: Was Federer better in 2006?

Post by Tenez on Sun 25 Sep 2011 - 1:16
It's like I hear a lot of people saying Nadal is not as good as last year. BS!!! He is much better actually. The difference is that there is an even better player out there.

As a fan of Federer, I would love to be able to say that today;s Fed is half of yesterday. But that that day hasn;t arrived and to me he is simply a more slid player now.

I've just posted my thoughts on the old/new Federer on Tenez's thread, but to add, I think Federer of 2011 as better mainly because he has hat to use his talent more, and we see its depth better, he's got more game now, just has stiffer opposition, he has had to embrace the new generation, the new game and in my opinion he has risen to the challenge beautifully.
I wish journalists and his own fans would stop being so demanding of him. I'd be so proud of Nole if he does the same when he's 30.

Well I think it is a lesson to us all to relax and enjoy the games of the players we like to watch nitb. I can see the argument that his shot making has improved, but I think his footwork has slowed which means he is not always in the best position to make those improved shots, whereas he was just able to change direction at lightening speed a few years ago (he is still v fast running side to side, but I think it is change of direction not so nimble) Nadal has definitely improved, last year he was twice the player he was in 2006 (I don't think he has fallen off this year after watching 3 set of US, but Novak has just outplayed him in every dept)but maybe he will start to lose a little of direction speed in a year or so however much he goes on improving his shotmaking. Novak just seems to have it all this year, and it is good to see someone else coming along to move the game forward and take up the mantle - I do hope Andy can step up to really join the big 3 or big 2 and really challenge for the majors, but they seem to have pulled away from him atm.

socal - sorry about your experiences - I try to think on forums that 'it's not personal, it's the internet' to paraphrase The Godfather!

by Liam_Main Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 15:47

Afternoon lads/lasses could you all post forward some questions for Elena Baltacha please? Cheers.

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