Jeff Round 5

First topic message reminder :

So 4 rounds gone and after impressive wins for Saracens, Exeter and Gloucester along with a squeaky bum win for Quins and a fairly ropey win for Sale this is how the table looks:

P W D L Pts
Harlequins 4 4 0 0 17
Saracens 4 3 0 1 14
Exeter Chiefs 4 3 0 1 14
Sale Sharks 4 3 0 1 13
London Irish 4 2 0 2 11
Gloucester Rugby 4 2 0 2 9
Bath Rugby 4 2 0 2 9
London Wasps 4 2 0 2 9
Leicester Tigers 4 1 0 3 6
Northampton Saints 4 1 0 3 5
Worcester Warriors 4 1 0 3 5
Newcastle Falcons 4 0 0 4 1

Harlequins sit top of the table with 4 from 4, just behind them and you feel their gaining momentum again the juggernaught of Saracens have climbed steadily after their openning day defeat. In third place Exeter continue to show they are comfy in the prem, setting them selves well for when the internationals return. And in fourth place Sale bring some cheer to the north of the country. I think this could be the first time a northern club has been in the top four since '08? (Tell me if i'm wrong stattos).

From 5th to 11th it's the mid country (and London, well ish) any of these positions could easily change though with so few points in it.

And taking up their customary position, Newcastle sit at 12. Can they change things around? You have to wonder if it'll be them or Worcester going down this season.

So on to the games to look forward to this weekend we have:

Fri 30 Worcester Warriors v Northampton Saints, Sixways, Worcester
19:45 local, 18:45 GMT

Sat 1 Gloucester Rugby v London Irish, Kingsholm, Gloucester
13:00 local, 12:00 GMT

Sat 1 Exeter Chiefs v Saracens, Sandy Park
15:00 local, 14:00 GMT

Sat 1 Harlequins v Sale Sharks, The Stoop, London
15:00 local, 14:00 GMT

Sat 1 Bath Rugby v Leicester Tigers, Recreation Ground, Bath
15:15 local, 14:15 GMT

Sun 2 Newcastle Falcons v London Wasps, Kingston Park, Newcastle
15:30 local, 14:30 GMT

My predictions.
Saints to grind out a win any way possible, Northampton by 5.
Gloucester to win a high scoring affair against an inexperienced LI side, Glos by 8.
Saracens to get in to their stride and have too much on the bench for Exeter, Saracens by 3.
A revitalised Quins carry on their winning streak in a brutal game, Quins by 7.
Bath finally get a win against Tigers in a try bonanza, Bath by 15.
Wasps click and run in some beauts against a clueless Falcons, Wasps by 10.

Agree, disagree?

It's our backs that have been in form, some excellent play by the likes of Twelvetrees, Allen and Ford in the midfield has given Morris a few easy tries to finish off and kept us moving forward. Castro would probabley be my choice because of what he would bring back to the pack and that would really help us gain momentum in games. We've already lost twice as many league games at home as we did last season, we need to beat Quins and if possible lay down a marker as a warning that Tigers aren't done yet.

Got to try and make life uncomfortable for Bath this weekend first though.

Saints by 5 - Dickson returning is a huge boost. Clarke back in the centres too.
Gloucester by 7 - simply too good at home
Saracens by 12 - building momentum, very strong away from home.
Harlequins by 7 - won't be easy but they'll win
Bath by 12 - should win comfortably against a depleted Leicester.
Newcastle by 5 - home advantage, Wasps have faltered a little.

I fancy Worcester might just upset the Saints. The Worcester pack is strongest in all the areas the Saints squad is diminished by call ups and with the meaty midfield on offer and the electric wingers to return the ball it might be a tough game for the Saints. Especially if Goode is at fly half and in prime kicking form as the Saints lineout is known to wobble under pressure and they do tend to concede penalties.

Newcastle vs Wasps should be a cracker if Newcastle play the heads up attacking rugby they did against Tigers, Wasps are moving the ball nicely as well and the danger men in the back three for them are really causing teams problems at the minute.

Wasps have a terrible record at Kingston Park, Newcastle won't get a better opportunity to kickstart their season.

Beshocked those results would be impressive but I can't see a few of them coming true.

I think Saracens will win but not by much, likewise I expect Wasps to remember their earlier form and weather permitting run all over Newcastle.

Yappysnap Wasps have stuttered badly since catching Saracens cold. They struggled against a heavily depleted Leicester at home, lost to Sale at home and lost comfortably to Exeter.

Newcastle will be fired up for this one.

Saints will play a much more settled backline with Dickson back to partnering Myler. The centre partnership of Downey and Clarke is also back together. Tonks has moved back to full back.

The Falcons have got Corne Uys trotting out on Sunday, himself and Helleur might make a decent partnership in the centres.

We'll soon find out.

You look at that 9-13 for Saints and it really doesn't hold up compared to other top teams.

Even Leicester at the moment with all their issues have a better 10,12 &13.
Just in England alone teams like Tigers, Saracens, Quins, Gloucester and Bath all have better axis to play with.

Saints need to clear out a bit more deadwood and get in some more dynamic players cause they aren't going to win anything till they sort out the backline.

And at the moment with some of the big names in the pack missing their creaking in the forwards too.

You look at that 9-13 for Saints and it really doesn't hold up compared to other top teams

I think there's some real talent at 9, Roberts and Dickson are both excellent scrum halfs who offer plenty of go forward and can control the flow of the game well. Myler has stepped up this year but still looks short of international quality, the centre combination is decent and dependable if a little short on imagination, presumabley that is why Tom May was brought in.

Dickson is a good player but not a game changer, nore are any of the others which is a big weakness. They work well together and are a reliable unit but apart from boshing it up the middle (centres) or kicking it (Myler) they offer very little.

Usually Ashton, Foden and Diggin would hide this but at the moment they're showing their faults.

Myler had a brilliant first game of the season, after that though as the pressures come on he's gone back to his old habits. Did you see them v Quins? He offered very little and never threatened us.

Yappysnap they aren't playing those sides you mentioned. They are playing Worcester.

True though. The 9,10, 12 and 13 are hardly youthful or well known.

On reflection I do feel like Northampton could have recruited better.

No I didn't see the game but it doesn't suprise me Myler is merely better than average and the Stains midfield really could do with an injection of something. I think Dickson was a large part in the HEC run last year, his sniping runs and control of the forwards were a great platform for the Stains. For me his promotion to the Saxons should be coming sooner rather than later.

There has been some investment in alternatives this summer but you are certainly right there is no game changer at 10, 12 or 13.

Well I tip them to wrestle past Worcester, but against any team with a better then average backline they'll struggle. Especially without an easy ride up front.

Recruitment has been odd, but then how many young exciting talented backs are out there at the moment who would like to transfer? They need to get the academy rolling and produce some, or pinch a few from the falcons.

I think Dickson is already in the Saxons, I imagine he's probably 4th/5th choice at the moment internationally and is the best player in that line up for Saints.

I just feel they could do so much more if they had a few better players. Maybe when Tuilagi comes back and realises he's been superceded by Twelvetrees he'll defect...

I doubt it, there were some dodgey press reports from down under about Super 15 teams looking at Manu and Cockerill quashed the rumours by pointing out that Manu is under contract for this season and the two after as well. He's going nowhere, Manu has also stated how happy he is at Tigers. Now Twelvetrees on the other hand needs to be given first action on a regular basis otherwise he may be tempted away at the end of the season.

Yappysnap

Some potential signings for Saints in my opinion.

Billy Twelvetrees
Adam Ashley Cooper or Berrick Barnes - as their marquee signing

Crikey, Sale came back into it. 2 losing BP

Cumbrian wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Cumbrian, I was gutted when you boys lost to Leicester, I think every one was willing you to win! Can you get out of this losing rut now though?

I must say i think Wasps may be the perfest team for you to turn up for, they seem flaky when faced by sides that get in their face and if your pack pulls its weight and goes out to smash them they may decide they just want to go home.

You guys do need to sort out the forwards though, if you let the pests build up a head of steam, well we've seen what Wade can do already.

Sam, do you think Castro will be straight back in the team after the WC? I don't think he'll be needed against Quins, best rest him for a game or two, last thing you want is to rush him back too quickly and have him injured.

Eh?

Hint hint. Let him have a week off.

Thanks, it was pretty gutting and a real opportunity missed TBH, it will be a while before we get a better chance to turn over the Tigers.

I'm hoping the long journey and a fired up Falcon's pack will push things in our favour. Yeah, I'm worried about Wade, I've had an eye on him for a while and I'm a big fan. I hope his size doesn't count against him in the future because he's the sort of player I'd like to see get a chance for England.

I was right to be worried... Wade scores after 7 minutes! 3-7

LondonTiger wrote:Warriors to beat Saints
Comfortable win for gloucester
Quins to win with a last minute kick.
Bruising battle at Sandy Park - just one try scored by Tom Johnson,but 7 penalties for Hodgson and 2 for Farrell give Sarries a 27-17 win.
Bath to get TB win against Tigers.
Falcons to win by 10 over Wasps in a try fest.

Table will see Quins and Sarries pulling away at the top, while Tigers and Saints will occupy the bottom two positions.

OK so the way the matches were won was off, but I did get 6/6 winners. For the first time this season I was happy with the Tigers performance. Perhaps we can still qualify for Europe.

Oh and Farrell and Hodgson did get all the points for Sarries.

LondonTiger Farrell and Hodgson both scored tries!

2 tries for both so far this season and I am hoping for more! I think they are enjoying playing together.

Very pleased with beating Exeter at their place. They are missing a lot less players and have shown how dangerous they are this season.

Some potential signings for Saints in my opinion.

Billy Twelvetrees
Adam Ashley Cooper or Berrick Barnes - as their marquee signing

Billy is liked by Hare and he does seem to have serious influence on the Stains signings. I think it's more likely that Billy will be tied down to a new contract soon though. I suspect he only got a one year deal last time because of the wage cap restrictions and the need for a big squad but with Tigers able to off load some players next summer (Robinson, Grindal and White through retirement) and with the increase in wage cap then he should be signed up long term.

For the first time this season I was happy with the Tigers performance. Perhaps we can still qualify for Europe.

Considering we didn't have a number 8 or a decent scrum (well it improved when Tom Youngs and Bucknall came on) we did very well. Unlucky not to win it but we were away from home and a mainly Tigers 2nd/3rd team lost by a point to 2/3rds of a Bath first team. Some excellent performances and Tom Youngs simply has to start vs Quins, he brings more to the set piece and the loose game and with Castro hopefully available (dirty, cheap shotting Irish) we should be able to dominate up front and really challenge Quins. Parling's return and Slater stepping up his game helped massively.

LondonTiger why are you worrying? Leicester should qualify for Europe comfortably.

Saints are the team in the biggest mire. Hardly helps that two of their most high profile players are wrapped in controversy again - Hartley and Ashton.

Sam who is Robinson? Why would you get rid of Grindal? He's world class.

Quins do really struggle against Tigers so we'll see who can triumph.

Lee Robinson, former Bristol flyer?

Exe have only got 4 away at RWC, altho we get our Samoan scrummie back, I don't think he'll feature that much; our problem is that we've lost 4or5 to injury now, so really testing our depth. Reckon Saints away next week will be a tricky fixture for us. Does anyone know if there is an enforced rest period for returning RWC players or can they jump straight back in?

Looking at the league table I was almost going to write a tongue in cheek article entitled 'Rugby Union in the Midlands is Dying'. Those who remember this article will get my drift:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13279854.stm

I decided against it, fearing further comeuppance.

Think you should go for it, Cumbrian, bound to get a rise somewhere!

Lee Robinson, former Bristol flyer?

That's the one, not really hit it off here. Handling and footballing skills just aren't up to scratch and being big and quick isn't enough to get into the Tigers backline. The likes of Forsyth offer a similar threat but are younger, more versatile and have better all round skill sets.

Sam who is Robinson? Why would you get rid of Grindal? He's world class.

Because Mickey Young is getting closer and closer to over taking him, he is also an experienced player and so costs more to employ then young Sam Harrison will. Harrison offers a bullet pass, more speed and better footballing skills (he also covers 10). Another year and Harrison will be bulked up a bit and ready to be a reliable 3rd choice where as this season is a bit early for him and we needed the extra experience as Ben Youngs will be missing for half the season.