Aviva Premiership Round 7

So after a two week break for the LV Cup, it's back to Premiership action this weekend, and here are the fixtures and current table.

Sale Sharks vs. Leicester Tigers
Sale Sharks
15 Rob Miller, 14 Tom Brady, 13 Johnny Leota, 12 Sam Tuitupou (c), 11 Mark Cueto, 10 Nick Macleod, 9 Dwayne Peel; 1 Alasdair Dickinson, 2 Marc Jones, 3 Henry Thomas, 4 Fraser McKenzie, 5 Kearnan Myall, 6 James Gaskell, 7 David Seymour, 8 Richie Vernon.
Replacements: 16 Joe Ward, 17 Vadim Cobilas, 18 Tony Buckley, 19 Mark Easter, 20 Andy Powell, 21 Will Cliff, 22 Luther Burrell, 23 Will Addison
Leicester Tigers
15 Geordan Murphy ©, 14 Scott Hamilton, 13 Horacio Agulla, 12 Matt Smith, 11 Alesana Tuilagi, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Sam Harrison; 1 Marcos Ayerza, 2 George Chuter, 3 Dan Cole, 4 George Skivington, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 Tom Croft, 7 Julian Salvi, 8 Thomas Waldrom
Replacements: 16 Tom Youngs, 17 Boris Stankovich, 18 Martin Castrogiovanni, 19 Steve Mafi, 20 Ed Slater, 21 James Grindal, 22 Jeremy Staunton, 23 Niall Morris

Worcester Warriors vs. London Wasps
Worcester Warriors
15 Errie Claassens, 14 Marcel Garvey, 13 Alex Grove, 12 Dale Rasmussen ©, 11 Miles Benjamin, 10 Andy Goode, 9 Shaun Perry; 1 Matt Mullan, 2 Ed Shervington, 3 Tevita Taumoepeau, 4 James Percival, 5 Craig Gillies, 6 Neil Best, 7 Jake Abbott, 8 Chris Jones
Replacements: 16 George Porter, 17 Aleki Lutui, 18 Oliver Tomaszczyk, 19 Adam Balding, 20 Sam Betty, 21 Ollie Frost, 22 Joe Carlisle, 23 Chris Pennell
London Wasps
15 Hugo Southwell, 14 Tom Varndell, 13 Chris Bell, 12 Riki Flutey, 11 Christian Wade, 10 Nicky Robinson, 9 Joe Simpson; 1 Tim Payne, 2 Steve Thompson, 3 Ben Broster, 4 Ross Filipo, 5 Marco Wentzel, 6 Richard Birkett, 7 Jonathan Poff, 8 John Hart (c)Replacements: 16 Rob Webber, 17 Zak Taulafo, 18 Jeremy Castex, 19 Joe Burton, 20 Matt Everard, 21 Nic Berry, 22 Ryan Davis, 23 Chris Mayor

London Irish vs. Bath Rugby
London Irish
15 Delon Armitage, 14 Topsy Ojo, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Shontayne Hape, 11 Tom Homer, 10 Dan Bowden ©, 9 Darren Allinson; 1 Max Lahiff, 2 David Paice, 3 Paulica Ion, 4 Nick Kennedy, 5 Bryn Evans, 6 Declan Danaher, 7 Jamie Gibson, 8 Richard Thorpe
Replacements: 16 James Buckland, 17 Alex Corbisiero, 18 Faan Rautenbach, 19 James Sandford, 20 Jebb Sinclair, 21 Adam Thompstone, 22 Steve Shingler, 23 Ross Samson
Bath Rugby
15 Nick Abendanon, 14 Olly Woodburn, 13 Matt Carraro, 12 Matt Banahan, 11 Tom Biggs, 10 Sam Vesty, 9 Michael Claassens; 1 Nathan Catt, 2 Lee Mears, 3 Anthony Perenise, 4 Stuart Hooper ©, 5 Dave Attwood, 6 Ben Skirving, 7 Guy Mercer, 8 Simon Taylor
Replacements: 16 Ross Batty, 17 Charlie Beech, 18 David Wilson, 19 Ryan Caldwell, 20 Andy Beattie, 21 Chris Cook, 22 Paul Roberts, 23 Jack Cuthbert

Harlequins vs. Exeter Chiefs
Harlequins
15 Mike Brown, 14 Seb Stegmann, 13 George Lowe, 12 Jordan Turner-Hall, 11 Sam Smith, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Karl Dickson; 1 Joe Marler, 2 Chris Brooker, 3 James Johnston, 4 Ollie Kohn, 5 George Robson, 6 Chris Robshaw ©, 7 Luke Wallace, 8 Nick Easter
Replacements: 16 Joe Gray, 17 Kyle Sinckler, 18 Tim Fairbrother, 19 Tomas Vallejos, 20 Maurie Fa'asavalu, 21 Richard Bolt, 22 Rory Clegg, 23 Matt Hopper
Exeter Chiefs
15 Luke Arscott, 14 Bryan Rennie, 13 Sireli Naqelevuki, 12 Jason Shoemark, 11 Matt Jess, 10 Ignacio Mieres, 9 Haydn Thomas; 1 Brett Sturgess, 2 Chris Whitehead, 3 John Andress, 4 Tom Hayes ©, 5 James Hanks, 6 Tom Johnson, 7 James Scaysbrook, 8 Richard Baxter
Replacements: 16 Neil Clark, 17 Ben Moon, 18 Hoani Tui, 19 Chris Bentley, 20 Ben White, 21 Kevin Barrett, 22 Gareth Steenson, 23 Josh Tatupu

Northampton Saints vs. Newcastle Falcons
Northampton Saints
15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Jon Clarke, 12 Tom May, 11 Vasily Artemyev, 10 Ryan Lamb, 9 Lee Dickson; 1 Soane Tonga'uiha, 2 Dylan Hartley ©, 3 Brian Mujati, 4 Samu Manoa, 5 Courtney Lawes, 6 Calum Clark, 7 Tom Wood, 8 Phil Dowson
Replacements: 16 Mike Haywood, 17 Alex Waller, 18 Paul Doran-Jones, 19 Mark Sorenson, 20 Roger Wilson, 21 Martin Roberts, 22 Stephen Myler, 23 Scott Armstrong
Newcastle Falcons
15 Jeremy Manning, 14 Luke Eves, 13 Corne Uys, 12 Jamie Helleur, 11 Rikki Sheriffe, 10 Jimmy Gopperth, 9 Chris Pilgrim; 1 Grant Shiells, 2 Joe Graham, 3 Euan Murray, 4 Tim Swinson, 5 Andrew van der Heijden, 6 Mark Wilson, 7 Will Welch, 8 Ally Hogg ©
Replacements: 16 Micahel Mayhew, 17 Ashley Wells, 18 Dan Frazier, 19 Glen Townson, 20 Redford Pennycock, 21 Jordi Pasqualin, 22 Alex Tait, 23 Greg Goosen

Gloucester vs. Saracens
Gloucester
15 Olly Morgan, 14 Charlie Sharples, 13 Henry Trinder, 12 Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu, 11 Jonny May, 10 Freddie Burnes, 9 Rory Lawson; 1 Nick Wood, 2 Darren Dawidiuk, 3 Rupert Harden, 4 Will James, 5 Jim Hamilton, 6 Alasdair Strokosch, 7 Akapusi Qera, 8 Luke Narraway ©
Replacements: 16 Scott Lawson, 17 Dan Murphy, 18 Dario Christolini, 19 Tom Savage, 20 Peter Buxton, 21 Dave Lewis, 22 Tim Taylor, 23 Mike Tindall
Saracens
15 Alex Goode, 14 David Strettle, 13 Owen Farrell, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 James Short; 10 Charlie Hodgson, 9 Neil de Kock; 1 Rhys Gill, 2 Schalk Brits, 3 Carlos Nieto, 4 Steve Borthwick (C), 5 Mouritz Botha, 6 Kelly Brown, 7 Jacques Burger, 8 Ernst Joubert
Replacements: 16 Jamie George, 17 Deon Carstens, 18 Matt Stevens, 19 Hayden Smith, 20 Andy Saull, 21 Ben Spencer, 22 Chris Wyles, 23 Joe Maddock

	P	W	D	L	PF	PA	TF	TA	PD	BP	PTS
01 – Harlequins	6	6	0	0	189	117	20	11	+72	2	26
02 - Saracens	6	5	0	1	153	95	14	9	+58	2	22
03 – Sale Sharks	6	4	0	2	154	144	15	13	+10	3	19
04 - London Irish	6	3	0	3	185	158	17	14	+27	5	17
---------------------------	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---
05 – Exeter Chiefs	6	3	0	3	118	127	11	13	-9	3	15
06 – Gloucester	6	3	0	3	126	125	10	12	+1	2	14
---------------------------	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---
07 – Bath Rugby	6	3	0	3	127	131	9	7	-4	2	14
08 – London Wasps	6	3	0	3	121	133	12	8	-12	2	14
09 – Northampton Saints	6	2	0	4	109	108	7	8	+1	1	9
10 – Worcester Warriors	6	2	0	4	82	121	6	11	-39	1	9
11 – Leicester Tigers	6	1	0	5	152	194	14	21	-42	3	7
---------------------------	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---	---
12 – Newcastle Falcons	6	1	0	5	99	162	8	16	-63	1	5

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Most teams have some selection decisions to make in relation to integrating returning World Cup players back in, and it is arguably a key fortnight coming up for all teams before the break for Heineken Cup action, particularly given how congested the middle of the table is. Personally I think it will be all home wins, with the exceptions of Tigers and Saracens going on the road and coming back with the points. How do people see this weeks matches going?

So it's Sale's turn to duff up the Tiggers?!

Well I'd expect a much stronger Tigers team than seen in the AP so far this season, something like;

Ayerza, Youngs, Cole
Deacon, Parling
Croft, Waldrom, Salvi
Harrison, Flood
Allen/Twelvetrees, Manu
Tuilagi, Murphy, Agulla

Bench; Stanko, Chuter, Castro, Skivington, Woods, Young/Grindall, Staunton, Smith.

Gloucester vs Saracens should be a good game.

It's a huge game for the Tigers really. They could have done with a home tie this week, as Edgely park on a Friday night is never easy, and another defeat would be very damaging for them.

That said, I think they may just edge it and come back with 4 points, although I can see Saints and Worcester both winning as well which means it wouldn't move Tigers up the table, just close the gap on the teams above.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Well I'd expect a much stronger Tigers team than seen in the AP so far this season, something like;

Ayerza, Youngs, Cole
Deacon, Parling
Croft, Waldrom, Salvi
Harrison, Flood
Allen/Twelvetrees, Manu
Tuilagi, Murphy, Agulla

Bench; Stanko, Chuter, Castro, Skivington, Woods, Young/Grindall, Staunton, Smith.

Gloucester vs Saracens should be a good game.

I know, Sam, was just pulling the collective Tiger plonker

Sam what's happened to Tait? Still injured?

Shame he can't shake off his niggles as you at Leicester could do with a quality English option in the back three.

So after 2 weeks off we're back to the Premiership for round 7 and we have some interesting games to look forward to. The real talking point from this weekend though I feel shall be the return of the England RWC players to their clubs (except for the injured) and the impact they may have on some of the teams that are floundering.

First though cast your minds back two weekends and to the last round of Jeff matches.

Harlequins carried on their winning ways in an entertaining 18-27 away game at Welford Road, the Tigers are yet to rack up a Jeff victory at home and the match was sealed beautifully by a driving maul from the Quins boys on the 73rd min.

Sale scraped to a 13-11 win at home to Gloucester, the Cherry and Whites nearly managed to steal a draw from the match with a late Trinder try but Taylors conversion was wide.

Northampton may well have seen the start of the fight back as they thrashed Exeter 33-3 the Cheifs were strangely muted for the full 80 and only managed a single Mieres penalty while Saints enjoyed tries through Armstrong, Diggin and Downey whily new fly half Lamb put on a MoM display.

Saracens continues their steady march on the top spot as they crushed Newcastle 25-5 a fine display from Hodgson at 10 helped them get 3 tries but there will be a sense of dissapointment at hot getting the bp and allowing the Falcons to score while opn the back foot.

Wasps will hope they are over their poor form after a tight 27-24 win against Bath, the first win in 4 attempts against Bath see's them end a three game losing streak.

London Irish showed a sign of the form we've known from them previously as they welcomed Worcester back to the big time with a 42-24 wooping. They will be upset with conceding 3 tries during the game but a stand out display from young full back Homer saw them cruise away with it easily.

The table as it stands now:
Harlequins 6 6 0 0 26
Saracens 6 5 0 1 22
Sale Sharks 6 4 0 2 19
London Irish 6 3 0 3 17
Exeter Chiefs 6 3 0 3 15
Gloucester Rugby 6 3 0 3 14
Bath Rugby 6 3 0 3 14
London Wasps 6 3 0 3 14
Northampton Saints 6 2 0 4 9
Worcester Warriors 6 2 0 4 9
Leicester Tigers 6 1 0 5 7
Newcastle Falcons 6 1 0 5 5

The line up for the weekend:

Fri 28 Sale Sharks v Leicester Tigers, Edgeley Park, Stockport
19:45 local, 18:45 GMT

Fri 28 Worcester Warriors v London Wasps, Sixways, Worcester
19:45 local, 18:45 GMT

Sat 29 London Irish v Bath Rugby, Madejski Stadium, Reading
14:30 local, 13:30 GMT

Sat 29 Harlequins v Exeter Chiefs, The Stoop, London
15:00 local, 14:00 GMT

Sat 29 Northampton Saints v Newcastle Falcons, Franklin's Gardens, Northampton
15:00 local, 14:00 GMT

Sat 29 Gloucester Rugby v Saracens, Kingsholm, Gloucester
17:45 local, 16:45 GMT

My predictions:
Leicester to get back on track with plenty of internationals back playing. Leicester by 12
Worcester continue their tough home form with a bullish pack display. Worcester by 6
Irish and Bath go toe to toe in a running fest, home advantage will swing it though. Irish by 3
Harlequins continue their winning streak as a few big names come back, but Exeter will be tough. Quins by 3
Saints internationals continue to get back in to the swing of things, unlucky Newcastle. Saints by 20
Gloucester step up and put in the performance of their season against Saracens. Glos by 14

Your thoughts?

A tough Friday night at Edgely Park - rain forecast so teh big Sale pack will enjoy the conditions (unless tigers saty on the bus and phone Pizza Hut). Narrow Win for Tigers

Warriors to beat Wasps by >7
LI to pip Bath in a high scoring game.
Quins to maintion 100% record against Chiefs
Saints to thump Falcons
Gloucester to score a few tries and just beat Sarries.


Table on Sunday night:

Quins 30pts
Saracens 22
London Irish 22
Sale 20
Gloucester 18
Bath 15
Exeter 15
Northampton 14
Wasps 14
Worcester 13
Tigers 11
Falcons 5

Merge all the threads!

http://cheezburger.com/View/5358701312

I think Ozzy is right.

Warriors, LI, Quins, Saints and Sarries to win...

Sam what's happened to Tait? Still injured?

Been told to rest until his groin injury is fully fixed, he kept coming back sure that he was good enough to play and then pulled it again. After the second time that happened Cockers just said enough was enough. We could do with him as he adds a spark to the backline but there's no point flogging him as it will do nobody any favours in the long run. With Murphy and Manu back the backs have some world class flair now anyway.

the match was sealed beautifully by a driving maul from the Quins boys on the 73rd min.

That is firmly a matter of opinion, I thought it was a horrible end to the game

Gloucester to score a few tries and just beat Sarries.

Just can't see that Sarries defence leaking 'a few' tries. Burger is back and is an animal, the rush defence is very organised so Gloucester are going to need to be inventive to get any 5 pointers.

Gloucester have a great attacking threat with the players in their backs, and if their pack can front up and at least match Saracens, then I see them scoring a couple of tries however good Saracen rush defence may be. I just think however many Gloucester get, Saracens will be ruthless and if need be will edge out their score in multiples of 3.

I can see Gloucester beating us. Kingsholm is a bloody tough place to go. Gloucester by 5.

All home wins.

Sam I think Burger might still be out with an injury.

Burger is a key figure for Sarries and makes a big difference to that rush defence. As intimidating as Kingsholm is I still think Sarries might edge it.

More bad news for Tigers with rumours of a fractured cheek bone for Manu seemingly true as Agulla has said he's playing centre on his Twitter account. I think Cockers will have a word about his use of Twitter but it's a blow for Tigers as both Allen and Twelvetrees missed the game against Gloucester with knocks and Smith didn't finish that game either. We could have done with that power in the centres as a wet night in Stockport is not one for fancy foot work.

Will he not play with a face mask Sam?

I think Saracens should actually really go on the offensive - who will Gloucester be getting back?

Kelly Brown will boost the backrow even if Burger is out as expected.

Possibley but probabley not this close to the HEC games Ozzy, we need results in that group badly as Clermont are pretty damn good. It's still only a rumour with Agulla saying he'll play centre. Agulla will play 13 so I'd summerise we'd need at least one fit centre to play alongside him.

I think it's a massive couple of weeks going into the HC games for all teams Sam. Everyone will want to go in with decent form, but won't want to risk key players more than they have to.

Could be some interesting team selections this week.

I haven't payed much attention to the Aviva thus far. Very odd to see Leicester down in eleventh. I keep hearing possitive things about Gloucester and Quins; are both in the Heineken Cup this year or is it just Quins rewarded after their Challenge Cup win?

Gloucester finished in the top 4 and so are in the HEC. Quins and Gloucester play exciting rugby and have a good deal of pace out wide whilst having mobile packs liable to cause issues for most defences in the loose. I'd say Gloucester have better set piece options though they rely heavilly on Brown for his line out skills but Quins have a tactical maestro in Nick Evans (his back up Rory Clegg is pretty good as well) which gives them options in attack.

Tigers were missing as many as 21 players at points over the first 6 games, hopefully things will be re-addressed swiftly. I agree with Ozzy that there is going to be some careful balancing of squad resources in order for clubs to maintain good league form but be ready for a tough HEC competition.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Gloucester finished in the top 4 and so are in the HEC. Quins and Gloucester play exciting rugby and have a good deal of pace out wide whilst having mobile packs liable to cause issues for most defences in the loose. I'd say Gloucester have better set piece options though they rely heavilly on Brown for his line out skills but Quins have a tactical maestro in Nick Evans (his back up Rory Clegg is pretty good as well) which gives them options in attack.

Tigers were missing as many as 21 players at points over the first 6 games, hopefully things will be re-addressed swiftly. I agree with Ozzy that there is going to be some careful balancing of squad resources in order for clubs to maintain good league form but be ready for a tough HEC competition.

This i think will be the stumbling block for Quins ans could well be our achilles heel and eventually cost us top4, over the last few seasons we have never managed our first team well. I am praying we do so this season.

It could be even more of an achillies heel for you this season Yappy as there is a fair chance more Quinns players will be promoted into the EPS. The likes of Grey, Robson, Robshaw and maybe Marler plus Easter and Care could see some interesting times around the 6N, they might not all be starting but they could be away the full week before the weekend game which will make it hard to prepare.

Not sure Tigers are going to be able to manage it very well as the injuries are tending to pile up in one position then another and we can't afford to rest players ahead of the HEC like we did last season (Tigers sent a second team to Sarries last season).

Sam your 2nd team put up a very admirable fight at VR last season.

I hope all English teams do well in the HC.

How do you guys think each club will handle the HC. I expect Saracens to put a lot of effort in. Especially the way Biarritz are currently in disarray.

Ozzy3213 wrote:
That said, I think they may just edge it and come back with 4 points, although I can see Saints and Worcester both winning as well which means it wouldn't move Tigers up the table, just close the gap on the teams above.

Right now I would be happy with us closing the gap and we'll make our challenge for top 4 in the new year.

It's going to be win, win, win from here!

We have a winnable pool this year, so I would be disappointed if we didn't give it a really good go at securing a quarter final spot.

Taking nothing for granted, but we should beat Edinburgh at home in round one, it is the round 2 fixture in Cardiff that concerns me, as in the last 2 seasons, we have won our opening match against Leinster (a) and Munster (h) and then lost against Welsh opposition in round 2. We could do without a repeat this year.

I wouldn't worry about Cardiff too much until they find at least decent replacements for their coaches and front row.

To be fair morgannwg, I didn't worry about the Scarlets at home 2 years ago in round 2 having beaten the then Champions Leinster in Dublin in round one, and we came very very unstcuk, so you will have to forgive my nervous disposition when it comes to Welsh opposition in round 2 of the heino

Sam your 2nd team put up a very admirable fight at VR last season.

Yes they did rather well, we can't afford to settle for BP losses though we need four and five pointers in order to climb the table a bit before the 6N where we stand to lose a few players again. Having said that we generally squeezed through the 6N period okay last season.

The HEC is going to be tough with Ulster and Clermont both looking to advance past the group stage. Really need to secure 10 points from the Italians and then look to beat Ulster and Clermont at Welford Rd without giving away any bonus points but need to gain at least losing bonus points away to both. An away win would be lovely but Clermont are pretty awesome at home and Ravenhill is certainly not a picnic.

Ravenhill is always a tough place to go, but Ulster have hit a spell of not great form their last few games. When do Tigers go there?

Not until January, we have them as our second game at Welford Rd, with a trip to Italy before that. The double header vs Clermont in December first home and then away is the decider.

We do really need to get a minimum 5 points from these next two AP matches I feel if we want to challenge for a play off place this season. We ill need to buck history to do it, as we've not beaten Bath at home since the 2006/07 season, and not beaten Leicester at Welford Road since 2002/03.

Sam,

I think the draw has been quite kind to you there in relation to the order of games. You are more than capable of getting a maximum 5 points in each of those first 3 games, as the Italians, whilst no pushovers are still not quite there, even at home, in the HC, and Ulster and ASM both at times have issues and ship points on their travels. If you are on 15 points in the poll when you go to Clermont, I think you will be laughing.

I think the group is definitely a two horse race, Blues and LI. Now Blues will have a lot of good players hopefully available to them but they'll need to get them firing. Both these teams could win their home matches against each other. The pool could be won/lost in Edinburgh. Blues have beaten them home and away something like 6 times on the trot. Two games were in the Heino last season so they still have a knack for doing it where-as Irish may get a bit stuck having not been all the way up there to play for a long time.

The away game in Edinburgh is our final fixture, so it could well be an all or nothing game for us. The key one for me is the trip to Paris in round 3, we could have done with having RM92 at home first and the away game second really, but them's the breaks, we just have to go out and win, win, win I guess.

Morganwwgvi I find it amusing that you write off Racing Metro. They are a good side.

I actually see Racing Metro as the dark horse. London Irish are always a wildcard. Are London Irish consistent enough? Cardiff IMO are certainly overrated and nowhere near their 1st tier seeding.

How hard have Clermont and Ulster been hit by the wc?

World cup hangover will come into play in my opinion.

It's true I did sweep Racing under the rug a bit. Not sure about LI's form against French teams but I'd back Blues to certainly beat them at home. Wasps, Toulouse, Castres have all tried playing up the jumper stuff against Blues and failed to win becuase they can adapt well to that type of game. It's the exact type of games Racing employ, smash and let Steyn have a shot at goal. Leinster certainly taught them some Rugby lessons on the two occassions they thrashed them last season.

Quins have it tough in Europe this season, in our pool we'll be playing Toulose, gloucester and Connacht.

Might be unfair but i'm not too fazed by Connacht and our home form against Glos has been immense of late, it's the away game to them and then Toulose which'll be the problem.

I'll never forget playing them at the Stoop two seasons ago and being 14-0 at half time only to let in two tries in the first 10 minutes of the second half and it all to go down hill from there.

I'd like a good showing against Connact and Glos (or maybe give a good shoeing in Gloucesters case) but other then that just focus on the prem, much like Saracens last season.

Best odds I can find at present for this weeks matches (favourites in red)

9/5 Sale Sharks vs. Leicester Tigers 4/9 (draw 20/1)
4/5 Worcester Warriors vs. London Wasps evens (draw 18/1)
8/15 London Irish vs. Bath Rugby 6/4 (draw 18/1)
1/5 Harlequins vs. Exeter Chiefs 7/2 (draw 25/1)
1/14 Northampton Saints vs. Newcastle Falcons 7/1 (draw 40/1)
4/5 Gloucester vs. Saracens evens (draw 18/1)

yappysnap wrote:Quins have it tough in Europe this season, in our pool we'll be playing Toulose, gloucester and Connacht.

I feel for Connacht being drawn in that pool. They MAY upset Gloucester and Quins in Galway though; those two teams will be in a dogfight for runners-up spot. Like I said, I've been hearing mostly possitive things about them, but as mentioned both have mobile packs and good backs. Toulouse also have good backs behind a massive pack which is pretty good at running around the park too. I believe Toulouse to be too strong a challenge for teams only just re-entering this competiton.

beshocked wrote:I actually see Racing Metro as the dark horse. London Irish are always a wildcard. Are London Irish consistent enough? Cardiff IMO are certainly overrated and nowhere near their 1st tier seeding.

Why do you think they're overated? I'm not a Blues fan, but I'll be cheering them on in this pool. They weren't at their best the past two seasons but were very unlucky to not make the KO stages of the Heino in 09/10 and 10/11 seasons due to poor decisions by french officials in critical games(Sale away and Northampton home). I remember them very well.

I believe Toulouse to be too strong a challenge

Having seen some of the early season Tolouse form I'd say they are looking very beatable, the big guns like Jauzion and Pontreaud are still there but are looking decidedly jaded. I think they could be there for the taking if Glaws and Quins can take early leads. Force them to attack and they'll be wholes for the speedy backs to run through.

If you are on 15 points in the poll when you go to Clermont, I think you will be laughing..

We certainly will! However, I was at the Perpignan game at WR last season and the place was rocking but the French teams are so used to this that playing away doesn't really seem to bother them, it was a freezing day and the Perpignan boys looked full of fire so I'm not sure I buy the issues with travelling. Clermont have acquired former Tiger Ben Kayser in the summer so no doubt he'll be giving them the low down about playing in front of the WR crowd. I think there will be nothing short of massive celebrations if we get 5 points from Clermont at WR. I'd settle for 5 points over the two games.

Sam, do you think hte results this week and next for Tigers will have much bearing on HEC form for you? I get the impression with Tigers that even if they are strugglin in the AP still, they can kind of switch off and go up a level when the HEC comes round.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Having seen some of the early season Tolouse form I'd say they are looking very beatable, the big guns like Jauzion and Pontreaud are still there but are looking decidedly jaded. I think they could be there for the taking if Glaws and Quins can take early leads. Force them to attack and they'll be wholes for the speedy backs to run through.

It would be silly to write them off on early season form. Are you forgetting the calibre of the internationals they have coming back in? They're coached by Guy Noves not Mad Marc, we'll see a very strong Toulouse imo. Jauzion may not even make the european squad. I would select a backline of: Burgess/Vergallo, Beauxis, Clerc, McCalister, Fritz, Cauca..., Medard. They also have a very inspiratinal captain who's IRB player of the year. Looking forward to talking about these in Pool 6 of my series actually.

I don't think Tigers can afford to have anymore bad form and in recent times we've not always stepped up a gear for the HEC (see the two games vs Perpignan last year). We need wins in order to move up the AP table and progress in the HEC, Tigers is run as a business owned by the fans and we need the on field success and the revenue that brings to survive.

I think the next couple of games could be very important as we could see some serious squad changes with Chuter in threat of losing the 2 shirt to Tom Youngs, Hamilton could drop out of the 23 and Twelvetrees needs to return and show form as we need a coherent squad. When we had the first team out we looked good last season, when we didn't we looked average against the big boys. The likes of Deacon, Flood, Castro, Cole etc make a big difference so we need them fit and firing.

It would be silly to write them off on early season form

I wouldn't do that but it's worth bearing in mind that they are going to be relient on internationals that have played some huge games to help them out. Interesting to note some of the legends aren't looking the part either, it will be a big ask but Glaws and Quins should be looking at that Tolouse team and thinking they have a decent chance of getting one over on the favourites.

I have added the Sale Sharks line up to the OP. If people post as soon as they know their teams line ups I will add them all so people can see and discuss the potential individual battles if they want.

Just done a thread with the interviews from the respective coaches and team lists for the Tigers vs Sale game.

Tigers team added and lin to your thread for the match embedded in the OP

Worcester and Wasps line ups added to the OP

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd say Gloucester have better set piece options though they rely heavilly on Brown for his line out skills

Never a truer word said! We have a lot of grunt in the boiler room, but Brown is the only lineout technician (and a very good one at that!). Sarries could definitely get the better of us in the lineout. It's going to be a hell of a game under the lights. I think it's going to be an incredibly close game. I do think Glaws will just pip it, due in large to the fact the pack have something to prove after Friday's game in the LV.

As has been said by others, I feel this is going to be a week of home wins with the exception of Leicester who I can see starting their steamroller!

Cardiff IMO don't deserve their tier 1 seeding. Yet again they have received a relatively soft group. Have they done anything of note recently? Yes I know they exploited the dodgy system to win the Amlin. I am still bitter with the ECC for screwing my team's european rankings for the next 3 seasons. I will explain what I mean if you want.

Underestimate Racing Metro at your peril. They are good.

Beshocked keep an eye out for an article on pool 2 which I will post later on or tomorrow, explain it then.
Here's the article on pool 1: https://www.606v2.com/t17011-heineken-cup-pool-1

I apologise Morganw I am a bitter bitter person who loves a good ol' rant. Nice summary of pool 1