Dan Carter and 2015

Carter’s injury has reinforced to most outsiders – out of hope if nothing else – that NZ is vunerable when either of the big two are taken out of the equation. However with a win ratio of 77% when both are missing, I’m still confident that our boys will do the job.

What next for Carter? The stage was set for him to confirm what we all know; he is light years better than the next best 10 in the game. He will probably go down, depending on who you speak to, as possibly the greatest flyhalf and player ever in the game. To those who say, “he hasn’t won a world cup” let me tell you this. Barry John didn’t. Colin Meads didn’t. Danie Gerber didn’t. We so easily see performance in the WC as a barometer for greatness nowadays, but this guy has performed time and time again when it counts. Don’t forget, the All Blacks were comfortably leading France in 2007 when Carter came off, what went wrong on that day was not down to him. His greatness for me is confirmed, a once in a generation player who even when he isn’t playing as well as we want him to still has the ability to make everyone else look ordinary.

The end might not be nigh on his bid for a WC. When I look at other countries what I see is most top teams having the ability to shuffle the flyhalf maybe to suit a horses for courses approach; O’Gara and Sexton, Flood and Wilko, Jackson and Parks, Priestland and Jones, Steyn and Lambie. NZ banks heavily on Carter to do the job, he can’t stick around for ever but he did sign a contract extension to take him through to the next WC. It could benefit NZ in a remarkable way too…

NZ has to think about the future in this position. Slade has got his chance now. Should NZ win, then Slade should get more of a chance to run the ship. If not Slade then I am sure in the next four years someone else will come through the way Fox, Merhtens, Spencer and latterly Carter has come through. If this forces Carter to the bench in say 2013-2014 then to me that is one hell of a player with a lot of knowledge to have on the bench. An insurance policy if you like. Someone to go to if the ship need steadying.

Carter’s outlook is one of positivity. His first action after enduring a personal setback was to send Slade a text backing him fully. Carter could possibly be joining the setup as a analyst/coach to help with the flyhalves. This could be allowed if there are spaces available - it has to for NZ's sake as he is such a humble, team player much like Wilkinson is for England. I’m hoping he comes back stronger than ever from this with a big point to prove in 2015.

In the meantime, I’m still backing black.

That was pure class minty when he sent that text to Slade right after he found out he was out of the tournament. He may have kept out classy first fives like Evans out of the team but he has always managed his world class status with humility. Classy on the field and classy off it too. He has shown that this is a team game and you need to get in behind the team. Like Nonu nursing SBW through his international debut. It looked as though he was going to take his place but he kept on supporting him and didn´t throw his toys out of the cot like he may have done earlier on in his career.

This team spirit is good to see. Now the team has to get in behind Slade and give him the confidence and belief he needs and work that extra bit harder to give him an easier ride.

As for DC, I can see him in a role like ROG and Wilkinson for the 2015 RWC and I hope it´s third time lucky for the guy. My heart goes out to the guy who has gone out injured in two World Cups. Another great of the NZ game, Jonah, is struggling with his kidney. Latest reports say his wife is contemplating giving him one of her kidneys.

You often hear people use the word arrogance with the ABs. But to me it´s no surprise that the most revered ABs are the most down to earth and humble of men off the field.

Not a huge rugby fan, but would you really say that Carter was a better number 10 than Wilkinson? Obviously Johnny had many of his prime years taken away by injury, so had that not been the case he would be lightyears ahead in the points charts, one would imagine. A Wilkinson of the early noughties had no peers, in my opinion.

Fists of Fury wrote:Not a huge rugby fan, but would you really say that Carter was a better number 10 than Wilkinson? Obviously Johnny had many of his prime years taken away by injury, so had that not been the case he would be lightyears ahead in the points charts, one would imagine. A Wilkinson of the early noughties had no peers, in my opinion.

Ummm, yes.

Carter is a much better all round 10 than Wilkinson ever was.

I think when you start a sentence with "not a huge rugby fan" you answer your own question.

Fists of Fury wrote:Not a huge rugby fan, but would you really say that Carter was a better number 10 than Wilkinson?

Er I'm not a huge boxing fan but was Sugar Ray Robinson really better than Ricky Hatton?

Thanks for the warm welcome...snooty sods.

Fact is, without injury, Wilkinson would have doubled Carter's points tally...

And yes, Sugar Ray really was better than Hatton.

Fists of Fury – not sure that points scored is the be all and end all of deciding which flyhalf was better. There isn’t a rule that says your flyhalf must be the main goal kicker (Matt Burke, Gavin Hastings). Suppose Carter never had to kick a goal in his life, he’d still be a super player – look at his try scoring record. Could you say the same for Jonny? In fact, would he be in the team if he couldn’t kick?

Discussing what could have been for injuries isn’t really valid to be honest. No one knows what might have been, we only know Jonny hasn’t been very good since 2003 whilst Dan has been stellar since 2004. There’s no point talking about what might have been, us kiwis would know. What might have happened had DC not been injured against France in 07 perhaps? We were winning comfortably when he went off.

If you were to mark the all round facets of each other’s play, Dan would score very highly in every area, whilst Jonny would only score in the goal kicking/defence areas.

Fists

Wilkinson was in his prime probably a better one on one tackler that Carter, although both are far better than most number 10s (it's not their main function in the game, as evidenced by the O'Gara-Parks-Cooper school of waving runners past).

As goal kickers and tactical kickers there was probably little to choose between them at their best, although Carter has better range from hand.

Again, comparing them at their best, there wasn't all that much to choose between them in terms of handling and running a backline - perhaps Carter having a slight edge (Wilkinson did through run a very dangerous backline in 2001-2003), but where Carter has a huge edge is as a running threat himself, as he's as good a runner as most centres whereas JW has never really been a ball carrier. As such, while Wilkinson set the standards in the early 00s, even I as an England fan have no trouble accepting that Carter has taken those standards and improved on them in the last few years.

It will be something of a travesty if Carter finishes his career without a RWC winners medal because of bad luck with injuries (went off in the 07 RWC game where NZ lost to France, and is now out of the rest of this tournament - not sure that at 33 he'll still be the best AB #10 for the next tournament).

Fists of Fury wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome...snooty sods.

Fact is, without injury, Wilkinson would have doubled Carter's points tally...

And yes, Sugar Ray really was better than Hatton.

Sorry fists I'm only pulling your chain pal . It was a fair question but for me Carter is a far better player. Yes Wilkinson was a points machine and could well have scored far more points but as an all round player Carter was something else. Have a look at the 2005 Lions series to see how good Carter can be.

Thanks for a proper response, dummy, I wasn't looking for an argument, just putting my uneducated opinion across.

dummy_half wrote:It will be something of a travesty if Carter finishes his career without a RWC winners medal because of bad luck with injuries (went off in the 07 RWC game where NZ lost to France, and is now out of the rest of this tournament - not sure that at 33 he'll still be the best AB #10 for the next tournament).

Dummy half - I feel his experience will be invaluable off the bench or even as the main man in 2015. If his body holds together of course. However, NZ always turn up new players so I would expect the next big player to have been found by then.

dummy_half wrote:
Again, comparing them at their best, there wasn't all that much to choose between them in terms of handling and running a backline - perhaps Carter having a slight edge (Wilkinson did through run a very dangerous backline in 2001-2003),

That is absolute Bollix dummy half. Wilkinson never could run a backline. It is well know that Dawson and Catt/Greenwood ran the show either side of Jonny in that England backline from 2001-3 and that Wilkinson has struggled ever since with his game management. Even Wilkinson has acknowledged this.

Mintie

That's also why I want Wilkinson's body to hold together for the remainder of this tournament. I think Flood makes our team function better (as long as the forwards are winning reasonable quality ball), but having such a reliable and experienced player to come off the bench to defend a lead with say 15 minutes left could be the key to winning the tournament (and I think Ireland are in a similar position with Sexton and ROG).