Quarter Final Number 1 - Ireland vs Wales - WALES ARE IN The Semis

by maestegmafia Tue 04 Oct 2011, 9:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well played Ireland...!

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm

Rodders we can all say what we want and most if not all of our respective arguments are valid - I actually don't think any of this history stuff is going to play 1 little part in this weekends proceedings - Its a one off between 2 sides who have NEVER met before and there will be one winner. If Wales win we will say its the start of a new dawn and the end of another. If Ireland win it will be down to experience - Both might be lies but retrospectively that's usually how it goes. Lets just hope its not "Blind ref costs ageing Irish stars one last Waltz" thumbsup

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm

Ruby I don't think I mentioned history?

The point is that neither of these sides will surprise the other. It will come down to who is best on the day and can take their points. With two strong defences I doubt that this will be a high scoring game.

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:29 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Lets just hope its not "Blind ref costs ageing Irish stars one last Waltz"

craig joubert will provide Ireland and wales the best opportunity to prove themselves. thumbsup

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:31 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Lets just hope its not "Blind ref costs ageing Irish stars one last Waltz"

I'm not sure why you feel the need to disrespect our players? But hopefully our guys will be able to earn some respect on Saturday.

by maestegmafia Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:33 pm

NEARLY 2,500 WalesOnline readers have selected their team to take on Ireland in Saturday's Rugby World Cup quarter-final during the past few days.

We can now reveal the team YOU would like to see line up for one of the biggest matches in Wales' World Cup history.

There is no place for James Hook in your starting XV, with Leigh Halfpenny chosen at full-back and Rhys Priestland the clear favourite at outside-half.

Scott Williams gets the nod at outside centre, narrowly ahead of Scarlets team-mate Jonathan Davies.

In the pack, you want the returning Dan Lydiate to go straight into the team, with Luke Charteris and Bradley Davies the second row selections.

Wales fans will find out who has made Warren Gatland's official selection in the early hours of this morning.

Here's the fans' team in full:

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 George North, 13 Scott Williams, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Rhys Priestland, 9 Mike Phillips, 8 Toby Faletau, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Luke Charteris, 4 Alun Wyn Jones, 3 Adam Jones, 2 Huw Bennett, 1 Gethin Jenkins

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:34 pm

That's a very good back line. but i quite liked Davies partnering Roberts.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:37 pm

Bradley instead of AWJ that's insane - Rodders you're feeling the pressure - chill out on the ageing Irish theme, its what the papers would say thumbsup

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:40 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Rodders you're feeling the pressure - chill out on the ageing Irish theme, its what the papers would say

30 somethings don't feel pressure Wink

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:43 pm

roddersm wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Rodders you're feeling the pressure - chill out on the ageing Irish theme, its what the papers would say

30 somethings don't feel pressure

I know they just go straight to the cornonary phase steam

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Well come on then lets see you all nail your colours to the rig...

Who's your team and who is gonna win by what...?

1. G. Jenkins
2. H. Bennet
3. A. Jones
4. A.W. Jones
5. L. Charteris
6. D. Lydiate
7. S. Warburton (Capt.)
8. T. Faletau
9. M. Phillips
10. R. Priestland
11. G. North
12. J. Roberts
13. J. Davies
14. L. Halfpenny
15. L. Byrne

16. L. Burns
17. P. James
18. R. Jones
19. A. Powell
20. L. Williams
21. J. Hook
22. S. Williams

Wales by 9

Maesteg, that would be my match-day 22. As for who'll win and what the score will be, I honestly think it's too close to call. I can see it being close but I can also see either side winning by quite a margin.

Actually, which S. Williams do you mean?

by dummy_switch_pop Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm

roddersm wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:

so is unlikely to come in under the radar of any teams, and in particular Ireland, whose players and coaches will have come across him in the Magners League anyway.

The only Welsh player who I think could come under the radar a little is Scott Williams.

Thats a good point. The idea that either of these sides will be able to catch the other out is nonsence. The idea that Wales will be caught out by the choke tackle or Irelands back row or Ireland will be blown away by Wales new found physicality and fitness or not able to deal with Warburton or North is ridiculous.

These teams and players know each other inside out. The team that takes their chances on the day and performs best will win and progress, there'll be very little unexpected about how these two sides approach the game.

Is it really ridiculous that one player can continue to make an impact until his opposition come up with a way of combating him? Look at how effective Jamie Roberts was, until England came up with man marking him with Easter, Quade when he isn't bombarded with pressure and a quick defensive line..or maybe a more relevant example..Jonah Lomu prior to all wingers being sub 12 Stone..

What's less ridiculous is that teams bringing new things to the table can surprise and use this new weapon/technique/player to win. This is how the game evolves, and why the same teams don't win every single year.

by Eclipse Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:00 pm

Something not many people have pointed out is that Wales have more pace and power throughout the back line. Ireland have more experience as a whole but if Wales can get front foot ball I'm confident that the extra pace and power will create try scoring opportunities. Getting over the gainline and creating quick ball will not be easy against the Irish back row but I think the whole game rests on that.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:04 pm

The point I'm making is the Irish players have played against all these players before and know their strengths and weakeness and vice versa.

North and Roberts haven't ran over the Irish players before and are unlikely to start now. Likewise O'Brien and Ferris won't catch the Welsh out the way they did the Australians.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:07 pm

Roberts man marked by Easter, are you having a laugh or what - Worsley once did a decent job but it left more space out wide and Wales won with something to spare, 2009 I think - Easter marking Roberts, Maybe Robert's grand mother Yahoo

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:17 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Roberts man marked by Easter, are you having a laugh or what - Worsley once did a decent job but it left more space out wide and Wales won with something to spare, 2009 I think - Easter marking Roberts, Maybe Robert's grand mother

Hes talking about 2010, the one England won by 13 points. The one where Wales lost to a side capatined by Borthwick.
The when where Roberts was now a marked man ( in both senses)

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:27 pm

Word in the Irish camp is that ROG is man marking Roberts.

by BlueNote Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:30 pm

"The point I'm making is the Irish players have played against all these players before and know their strengths and weakeness and vice versa."

Agreed, and they'll have been analysing the others' (team) performances carefully, I don't think anyone will sneak under the radar into this game. It'll be partly a matter of testing fairly well-known weaknesses in each other and seeing how far they can get (attack Welsh lineout, run JR at ROG, etc).

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:33 pm

Easter man marking Roberts is a gem - keep 'em coming thumbsup

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:35 pm

roddersm wrote:Word in the Irish camp is that ROG is man marking Roberts.

Oh, are you serious?

by MunsterMac Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:37 pm

Ireland has shown in the dmoestic club competitions that their players know how to win knock out matches.

I would just like to point out to a few confused Welsh supporters that the 6N is not a knock out competition.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:38 pm

Thats it bluenote. I think it will come down to a missed tackle or a few silly penalties or a drop goal.

There'll be no one catching anyone off guard in this game, these teams know each other too well.

The scrums and lineouts will be interesting with Jenkins and Jones returning and Ireland having developed a very strong scrum. Healy v Jones will be a key battle but I can't see Ireland dominating that area. I expect Wales to get a marginal upperhand there.

The lineout will be interesting and with Best likely out that could be a real challenge for Ireland, whereas normally Ireland have done well against the Welsh lineout.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:40 pm

biltongbek wrote:
roddersm wrote:Word in the Irish camp is that ROG is man marking Roberts.

Oh, are you serious?

Always Biltong,always. Statistically ROG is our best defender.

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:41 pm

roddersm wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
roddersm wrote:Word in the Irish camp is that ROG is man marking Roberts.

Oh, are you serious?

Always Biltong,always. Statistically ROG is our best defender.

No!

Are you still serious?

by Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:42 pm

Great news on Best looks more and more likely he will be starting which for all assocaited with Wales is bad because your not even gonna have control of the scrum the only area you may have had control of without Best

Also for those of you trying to criticize Heaslip GTFO. Jamie has been a BEAST at the breakdown and his carrying has improved nicely in the last couple of matches. Best number 8 in world rugby wouldnt swap him for anyone

by Thomond Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:49 pm

Apologies for the WUM today,although I didn't think it came across like that.
I think if Best is fit,the lineout is an area we can target. The Welsh lineout wasn't great in the 6N. It is probably better now but still an area we could take ball from them.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:54 pm

biltongbek wrote:
No!

Are you still serious?

Sure Biltong, De Villiers hasn't been the same player since ROG nailed him in training. Said in an interview he still has nightmares and that it was one of the reasons he left Munster. Roberts is in for a ROG special this weekend.

by Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:56 pm

Which Welsh player will recieve the special Ferris treatment

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:57 pm

I would then wonder who was player who told Jaque Fourie to run through ROG. Wink

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:00 pm

biltongbek wrote:I would then wonder who was player who told Jaque Fourie to run through ROG.

by Comfort Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:03 pm

roddersm wrote:
biltongbek wrote:I would then wonder who was player who told Jaque Fourie to run through ROG.

ROG's a gambler, he made a fair bit of dough from that 2nd lions test! cake

by **Biltong** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:04 pm

Comfort wrote:
roddersm wrote:
biltongbek wrote:I would then wonder who was player who told Jaque Fourie to run through ROG.

ROG's a gambler, he made a fair bit of dough from that 2nd lions test!

now you see i didn't know that.

Thanks for enlightening me. Rolling Eyes

by ME-109 Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:07 pm

Ah Rodders..I can just see you on Saturday morning rubbing your hands with glee if ROG has a bad game (perceived or otherwise) you will be on here like a shot....

"Which Welsh player will recieve the special Ferris treatment."

Tactically going at Philips and Priestland by Ferris/SOB/Murray. Phillips can disappear in games when dominated or matched physically which I expect Murray to do (a lá TOL)..Priestland is flaky if he is got to (i.e gets an even bigger red head than ROG when flustered) and his game can go to pieces...which is possibly why S Jones will play.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:10 pm

DOD wrote:Ah Rodders..I can just see you on Saturday morning rubbing your hands with glee if ROG has a bad game (perceived or otherwise) you will be on here like a shot....

Nope. I fully support the descision to start ROG this week. If he has a bad game, he has a bad game. I wouldn't change the team from Italy.

Why the flip would I want us to lose on Saturday? steam

by BlueNote Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:14 pm

rodders, I'm very nervous about what will happen to our lineout. Historically, ROG has been happy to kick into Wales' 22 and let POC loose on it, and Bennett is shaky enough for that tactic to work. For me, a big factor on Saturday is whether our lineout holds together.

As for the scrums, the reffing seems to be a complete lottery nowadays, and I don't think either side should be well on top in that. Gethin J is coming back from injury, though, and isn't match fit, which may be a factor.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:14 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Easter man marking Roberts is a gem - keep 'em coming

Just shows how bad the rest of the Welsh side must have been if they lost that game by 13 points and easter was just standing around watching Roberts run rings round him

by Comfort Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Easter man marking Roberts is a gem - keep 'em coming

Just shows how bad the rest of the Welsh side must have been if they lost that game by 13 points and easter was just standing around watching Roberts run rings round him

it just wasnt our day.

by ME-109 Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

I didnt say you wanted us to lose rodders..

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:20 pm

BlueNote wrote:rodders, I'm very nervous about what will happen to our lineout. Historically, ROG has been happy to kick into Wales' 22 and let POC loose on it, and Bennett is shaky enough for that tactic to work. For me, a big factor on Saturday is whether our lineout holds together.

As for the scrums, the reffing seems to be a complete lottery nowadays, and I don't think either side should be well on top in that. Gethin J is coming back from injury, though, and isn't match fit, which may be a factor.

Thats interesting because ROG kicked a lot against Wales in March and we came off worse in a game of arial ping-pong but then we had Fitzgerald at the back.

ROG has actually been running a lot of ball lately and kicking a lot less so I'm not sure how he will play. If he does kick then I hope he finds his touch because Wales have good players at the back, particularly Byrne.

If it wasn't for Bests injury I would be confident in our lineout but thats a big leveller and the scrum will be interesting but I'm not expecting us to get the upperhand in that area.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:21 pm

Not as bad as the team that had 90% posession and territory and lost by 10 points recently though eh! thumbsup

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:22 pm

DOD wrote:I didnt say you wanted us to lose rodders..

Well then I'm not likely to be happy if any of our players don't play well then. I have no complaints about the selection.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:23 pm

Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip wrote:Which Welsh player will recieve the special Ferris treatment

Is this fella the Irish version of Nottins, 'cos I think he's doing a great job here, bit rare for an Irish poster but I love his style (if you can call it that) oh! and his balance and composure thumbsup

by Thomond Wed 05 Oct 2011, 2:59 pm

Ruby,he doesn't represent the majority of Irish posters who are level headed about this game and think it will be difficult.

by BlueNote Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:09 pm

rodders, it used to be kicking to touch in/around our 22, in the confidence that you might steal the ball, or, even if not, the lineout would be a mess and Wales would be stuck with trying to deal with difficult ball near their own line.
I would have thought it was best to avoid kicking to our back 3 too much unless the chase is very good.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:17 pm

Thomond wrote:Ruby,he doesn't represent the majority of Irish posters who are level headed about this game and think it will be difficult.

You didn't have to really explain that Thomond but its greatly appreciated (the fellas probably a welsh spy from the valleys anyways), I know your lads are great posters on here, except that fella Gibson of course, I tink he's mixing his Guinness with his Advocaat in Amsterdam and its not doing the fella any good. thumbsup

by Sin é Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:28 pm

roddersm wrote:
BlueNote wrote:rodders, I'm very nervous about what will happen to our lineout. Historically, ROG has been happy to kick into Wales' 22 and let POC loose on it, and Bennett is shaky enough for that tactic to work. For me, a big factor on Saturday is whether our lineout holds together.

As for the scrums, the reffing seems to be a complete lottery nowadays, and I don't think either side should be well on top in that. Gethin J is coming back from injury, though, and isn't match fit, which may be a factor.

Thats interesting because ROG kicked a lot against Wales in March and we came off worse in a game of arial ping-pong but then we had Fitzgerald at the back.

ROG has actually been running a lot of ball lately and kicking a lot less so I'm not sure how he will play. If he does kick then I hope he finds his touch because Wales have good players at the back, particularly Byrne.

If it wasn't for Bests injury I would be confident in our lineout but thats a big leveller and the scrum will be interesting but I'm not expecting us to get the upperhand in that area.

ROG was not the major offender with regard to kicking the ball away - the problem was that everyone else was at it.

Fitz: 5 Byrne: 5
Bowe: 5
O'Driscoll: 4
D'Arcy: 1
Earls: 2 (Williams 5)
O'Gara: 14 (Hook 14)
Stringer: 4 (Phillips 11)
POC: 1
Heaslip: 1
Sexton: 7
P. Wallace: 1

The only players NOT to have a go at kicking were the front row (and I see that Healy has been working on his kicking skill now Very Happy

The major difference in this team will be Phillips will have to cope with a far more physical scrumhalf than he did in that game. Neither Roberts or Davies ran riot in midfield. D'Arcy was tested defensively, making 13 missing none. ROG made 9, missing none for the record.
Wales missed 16 tackles. Ireland missed 7.
Wales conceeded 12 turnovers; Ireland 10.

I think Murray will make a huge difference (Reddan went off injured early and Stringer came on for him).

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:34 pm

Gethin Jenkins will probably be the fittest forward on the field - Gatland described him yesterday as someone who appears to be playing with a fire cracker up his arse - Do not underestimate this guy or think he is not match fit. He is our 5th back row player thumbsup

by maestegmafia Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:40 pm

Comfort wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Easter man marking Roberts is a gem - keep 'em coming

Just shows how bad the rest of the Welsh side must have been if they lost that game by 13 points and easter was just standing around watching Roberts run rings round him

it just wasnt our day.

Actually the day referred to, the day Worsley played flyhalf in defence for England against Wales in Cardiff Wales won.

Heres a link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7887941.stm

"With England's confidence levels visibly rising and Wales still intent on running crisp attacking lines, the sell-out crowd was treated to a genuine contest far removed from the one-sided affair some had predicted.
That was thanks in part to a clever defensive tactic employed by England to limit the threat of Wales centre Jamie Roberts, with Goode packing down in England's back-row, to allow the outstanding Joe Worsley to shore up the tackling in the backs.
A one-point game at half-time soon tipped in Wales' favour as Roberts broke away down the right to carry his side deep into the England 22."

It was a tactical decision that worked for a short while, but being one of the few decent decisions england made tactically at any point in 2009, it was praised to the highest by the English pundits.

by **rodders** Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
ROG was not the major offender with regard to kicking the ball away - the problem was that everyone else was at it.

Sin it's not about the volume of kicks but the quality. I'd have to rewatch the game but my feeling at the time was that ROG put in a lot of poorly executed touch finders that were picked up by Byrne and booted back with interest. For whatever reason ROG struggled with his range that day. I'm not saying that he was the only offender.

Reddan getting concussed was another factor that day. Anyways the point is that if Byrne, Halfpenny or Williams are playing then any tactical kicking needs to be perfectly executed as they are all great kickers and good counterattackers.

by BlueNote Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:41 pm

I just checked the teams from that game - Ireland will be very close to the same team except Kearney and Murray in; Wales are likely to include North, Priestland [?], Faletau, Charteris, Gethin J, Huw Bennett and Adam Jones who were not in that match. I had forgotten that Wales lost Craig Mitchell in the 12th minute, replaced at TH by John Yapp. Of course, Matthew Rees is a big loss.
Both teams are playing much better at the moment than in that game, so I wouldn't that draw much from it, except - how come a front row with Yapp at TH wasn't crucified?

by D24tress Wed 05 Oct 2011, 3:41 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Gethin Jenkins will probably be the fittest forward on the field - Gatland described him yesterday as someone who appears to be playing with a fire cracker up his arse - Do not underestimate this guy or think he is not match fit. He is our 5th back row player

Did he not say he was tired after 20mins though against fiji

super player but on the way back, hopefully our scrum can keep him at bay

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