Quarter Final Number 1 - Ireland vs Wales - WALES ARE IN The Semis

First topic message reminder :

Well played Ireland...!

Alyn, you seem to have some sort of fixation about Ireland and offside!

maestegmafia wrote:You have to make sure it goes into touch...
The Welsh back three have plenty of experience against O'Gara, the Welsh back row and centers do too...

I imagine that Wales will be going all out to disrupt the Irish halfbacks... Pressurise them and make O'Gara have one of his infamous shockers, wayward kicks straight to the pacey welsh backline.

Of course we do, but without Byrne i think our margin for error has increased. If Byrne was playing each touch finder would have to be inch perfect, Halfpenny doesn't have the natural positioning of a fullback that Byrne does so we don't have to be as exact with our kicks.

Halfpennys positioning is far better than Byrnes and he's better under the highball and can return with interest compared to Byrne. Byrne posessed a howitzer of a left peg but even that has been muted of late. Its a natural decision that makes sense. 1/2 P is also a better defender

RubyGuby wrote:Halfpennys positioning is far better than Byrnes and he's better under the highball .... 1/2 P is also a better defender

Yes of course Ruby

"We have a fitter and more mobile pack" - rodders, I'm not sure I'd agree with that, with the exception of Adam J. I think what gives your pack the edge is its strength and phsyicality.

I guess part of the thinking for including Halfpenny is that, in a tight game, his ability to kick long penalties may be very useful.

Also happy to see Hook on the bench over Stephen jones.

We have versatility to enter the fray, wheth tactically or through unfortunate injury. As well as hook we have young Scott Williams too.

Lloyd Williams is a great talent should we need to change 9s.

I like this team, it feels like four years of work, good bad, beautiful and ugly are coming to fruition at the right time.

Good work Gatland and co... Ireland are going to have to be very very good to beat this team.

I dont think our pack is any fitter than the welsh. i think we are going to have to rely on brute force.

Healy, POC, Ferris and SOB are arguably more dynamic than their welsh counterparts although Faletau and AWJ might beg to differ. If we can bully the welsh pack that is great. If it gets open i think the welsh are slightly more mobile than us.

BlueNote wrote:"We have a fitter and more mobile pack" - rodders, I'm not sure I'd agree with that, with the exception of Adam J. I think what gives your pack the edge is its strength and phsyicality.

No I don't think so. Our tight 5 are all exceptionally mobile. It's the reason we do so well at the break down. Even Mike Ross gets around more than people make out. Healy is an incredible athlete and Best, DOC and POC have phenomenal work rates and mobility. Our back 3 can run and tackle all day long and are super quick.

We'll want to play at a very quick pace and I think Jenkins and especially Jones will struggle. The Italian pack was out on it's feet after 45 min last week and I expect Jones and Jenkins to get the treatment Castro did last week from Ferris and O'Brien.

I really hope Ross can last the 80 minutes. I wouldn’t fancy seeing Court come into tighthead and have to deal with Paul James.

Possibly wet and windy with ickle shane and half pint in the back three....i wonder if a couple of bombs are going to come their way?

Once Ireland get parity in the set piece particularly the scrum then the rest falls into place.

Mickado wrote:I really hope Ross can last the 80 minutes. I wouldn’t fancy seeing Court come into tighthead and have to deal with Paul James.

Maybe you would prefer Buckley then?

Rava wrote:

Mickado wrote:I really hope Ross can last the 80 minutes. I wouldn’t fancy seeing Court come into tighthead and have to deal with Paul James.

Maybe you would prefer Buckley then?

Don't get so defensive. I'd prefer Mike Ross to stay on. Or Court to come into LH.

I literally dont think Jenkins would be worried at all about any "special treatment". He'll relish it if anything - that man absolutely LOVES the physical battles in rugby.

And Bennett is industrious in the loose, thats always been the strongest part of his game.

Jones not so much, but he gets around and hits rucks as much as any international tighthead.

The 2nd rows both have ridiculously huge work rates aswell.

Then of course we have our very own ferris in lydiate who's a monster tackler and warburton/Faletau who are both extremely, and i mean extremely, quick and good on the ground. That and I've never seen warburton take a backward step, hes captain because he leads by example, and he'll be the first to have a go at the irish backrow.

Theres nothing between these packs overall, sure they both have edges in certain areas, but dont be so one-eyed to think your pack is stronger, fitter and more mobile.

Just a thought.....

Comfort wrote:The 2nd rows both have ridiculously huge work rates

Is 'work rate' a euphemism?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Comfort wrote:The 2nd rows both have ridiculously huge work rates

Is 'work rate' a euphemism?

i can neither confirm or deny.

DOD wrote:Possibly wet and windy with ickle shane and half pint in the back three....i wonder if a couple of bombs are going to come their way?

Once Ireland get parity in the set piece particularly the scrum then the rest falls into place.

Ireland's scrum is looking menacing and is very well settled. I think we'll get more than parity on the Welsh scrum. Don't get me wrong I do rate the Welsh scrum very highly but its not nearly as settled as the Irish one. Jenkins may be fit again but Ireland will be asking serious questions if he can sustain a full 80 against us.

Note to self: get to bed early Friday night!

littlejohn wrote:
Ireland's scrum is looking menacing and is very well settled. I think we'll get more than parity on the Welsh scrum. Don't get me wrong I do rate the Welsh scrum very highly but its not nearly as settled as the Irish one.

Nah I think you are wrong. I think the welsh scrum will get parity at the very least. James off the bench will strengthen it further.

I think theres a lot of stereotypes being thrown around: The welsh having better back, the irish having better forwards and wanting a slower game.

This Welsh side is as 'unwelsh' as any I've seen. They've played a very basic route one rugby, using Roberts, Faleteau and North crashing through midfield. Priestland is a very conservative but well rounded fly half. Their only major victory came from a superb defensive effort and they've struggled to open up any of the top sides out wide. Their set piece, once and achilles heel is now very strong.

I actually think Wales will try and take us on the pack and midfield and will be quite happy if the weather conditions are not great.

This will be a physical armwrestle and with two of the best defences around I don't think we'll see too much expansive rugby from either side.

I think the back three Gatland has chosen is more than capable of opening up defences out wide. I also think Wales' physicality is such that it can cope with Irelands pack.

Whether we can win our own lineout ball and cope with RoG's pinpoint kicking game remains to be seen.

Im in an odd position as a welsh fan. My head tells me that this is the best team we have playing the best rugby I have seen in a while, my head tells me we can win this by about 10 points.

My heart tells me were going to get our dreams broken again

We do seem to lack confidence in our confidence here in Wales.

The lads have played some great rugby under warburton, constant improvement too, and there are no signs that that won't continue..

But still we worry.

Guess it is better to be surprised and elated, than to expect and be deflated...!

To me the match is a toss up. Almost dead even.
Lots to like on both sides.
But still cxoncerns on both sides.
Ireland have not peaked yet in my opinion, but still might have enough to take Wales.
But if Wales get going fast, then its all pressure on Ireland.

This really might be the match of the RWC so far (except France-Tonga, of course). I think the big edge Ireland have is they have a number of GS winners and HC winners in their squad. And I never underestimate the impact of players with a winning mentality and winning experience..

doctor_grey wrote:To me the match is a toss up. Almost dead even.
Lots to like on both sides.
But still cxoncerns on both sides.
Ireland have not peaked yet in my opinion, but still might have enough to take Wales.
But if Wales get going fast, then its all pressure on Ireland.

This really might be the match of the RWC so far (except France-Tonga, of course). I think the big edge Ireland have is they have a number of GS winners and HC winners in their squad. And I never underestimate the impact of players with a winning mentality and winning experience..

We have players who have won more than 1 GS and HC victories are diluted by the foreign mercenaries-though ,fair play,their foreigners have been better than ours!

Very magnaminous taff but you will find that in the provinces the amount of NIQ foreigners allowed or used is quite small...but they have been used intelligenlty if sparingly....

Dont think the welsh regions problems come down to that...its just that they are.....pretty cr.p when it comes to the HC...

DOD wrote:Very magnaminous taff but you will find that in the provinces the amount of NIQ foreigners allowed or used is quite small...but they have been used intelligenlty if sparingly....

Dont think the welsh regions problems come down to that...its just that they are.....pretty cr.p when it comes to the HC...

What on earth has the HEC got to do with a rugby world cup quarter final?


Absolutely nothing mate.

There are only a couple of players in this match to have experienced a RWC quarter finals.

Dont know mate..ask taff he brought it up. Was just correcting him..

I see..!

Both teams have a good mix of youthful exuberance and experience.

maestegmafia wrote:We do seem to lack confidence in our confidence here in Wales.

The lads have played some great rugby under warburton, constant improvement too, and there are no signs that that won't continue..

But still we worry.

Guess it is better to be surprised and elated, than to expect and be deflated...!

Maesteg

You gotta have a touch of realism here, even Gatland was highly critical of parts of the Welsh performance in both their last two matches.

Namibia match...............
you didnt score a point for what 25 mins, in fact they were probably more direct and creative than you for the last 25 mins of the first half. Gatland did a "hairdryer" during the half time bollocking

Fij match...................
Mr G tempered the win with these words "whilst we played well, you have to realise that they changed 10 (TEN) of their first team players, and were unlucky on a few occasions, whilst playing for pride only"

Meanwhile Ireland have beaten Australia well and Italy quite convincingly

So you can see why its ok to have confidence but not blind optimism

flyhalffactory wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:We do seem to lack confidence in our confidence here in Wales.

The lads have played some great rugby under warburton, constant improvement too, and there are no signs that that won't continue..

But still we worry.

Guess it is better to be surprised and elated, than to expect and be deflated...!

Maesteg

You gotta have a touch of realism here, even Gatland was highly critical of parts of the Welsh performance in both their last two matches.

Namibia match...............
you didnt score a point for what 25 mins, in fact they were probably more direct and creative than you for the last 25 mins of the first half. Gatland did a "hairdryer" during the half time bollocking

Fij match...................
Mr G tempered the win with these words "whilst we played well, you have to realise that they changed 10 (TEN) of their first team players, and were unlucky on a few occasions, whilst playing for pride only"

Meanwhile Ireland have beaten Australia well and Italy quite convincingly

So you can see why its ok to have confidence but not blind optimism

My point is that there is plenty of realism.

Too much, we can't shake our pessimism. We lack confidence in our confidence.


Get off your high horse. This is the second time this week youve misread my posts and got angry.

If you want something to get angry about read this...!

Ya lost to a rubbish England side you should have beaten twice accept it and move on

By Brendan Gallagher
Last Updated: 8:10PM BST 06/10/2011
Telegraph Sport looks at the crucial areas that will decide the thrilling battle of the Celts.

Centre
Two years ago in South Africa Ireland's sorcerer, Brian O’Driscoll, conjured a couple of marvellous performances out of the young Welsh apprentice Jamie Roberts for the Lions. Now Roberts will be trying to bring everything he has learned to bear against the master.

Not that their duel will occupy all out attention in midfield. Gordon D’Arcy was a revelation against Italy on Sunday and poses a big threat in his own right, which means Jonathan Davies’ renowned defensive qualities for Wales will be tested to the full.

Openside flanker
Sean O’Brien is not an openside flanker, he is a phenomenal bruiser of a blindside. But the serious pre-tournament injury to David Wallace forced Ireland to reorganise their back-row resources and O’Brien has been operating in the No7 shirt.

So far, so very good, with the 'Tullow Tank' blasting big holes in opposition defences. But now he is up against one of the best and most natural openside talents we have seen in decades, Wales’s young captain Sam Warburton.

A classic, and crucial, clash of styles awaits.

Supporters
Wales have a good noisy contingent in Wellington but Ireland have virtually been playing ‘home’ games in the Rugby World Cup, such has been the strength in numbers of the Blarney Army.

Goodness knows where they all come from but they are mainly a young, boisterous, back-packing lot (different from the ususal Aviva faithful) and have made for an exceptional atmosphere wherever they travel. In a tight match, and there is every indication this will be a nail-biter, they could yet have a role to play.

Previous World Cup Meetings
Wellington, 1987: Wales 13-6 Ireland
Ellis Park, 1995: Ireland 24-23 Wales

75%: Ireland’s winning record in last 12 games against Wales.

34: Points conceded by both teams in the pool phase. Only South Africa conceded fewer, 24.

1: Number of tries scored by Shane Williams against Ireland in his career total of 55.

I am not angry!!

Just telling you what alot of posters (many of them Welsh) have said, in quite a cool calm collected way.

Just facts mate, not lies or misrepresentations............... if you can't take them, well just let your real self come out........ deep breaths mate and scream at me......... thats it let the real person out

And as far as the last sentence is concerned. well at least you made me giggle before bedtime. We have admitted it was a poor campaign from us,we have moved on, (and now we are supporting the other teams) but at least we have a touch of realism in our world

Wales and Ireland invoke spirit of Lions, the New Zealand public have taken the Celts to their hearts, seeing them as antidotes to northern torpor


Paul Rees in Wellington
The Guardian, Thu 6 Oct 2011 18.24 BST



It would be a wretched anti-climax if the hotly anticipated meeting of the Celts, widely regarded here as the pick of the quarter-finals, turned out to be a case of the Wellington boot. While England, Scotland and France have been justifying the low opinion in New Zealand of northern hemisphere rugby, Ireland and Wales have been confounding it and have become the popular choices for Kiwis' second teams.
There is always a danger when two teams whose players know each other so well meet that it becomes a matter of who blinks first. When a World Cup semi‑final beckons, a step Wales have taken once, in 1987, and Ireland never, aerial bombardments would ordinarily be expected.
It promises to be different on Saturday with both teams far from ordinary. Not much was expected of either before the tournament: Ireland had lost all four of their August warm-up matches, making little impact against France and England in Dublin, and while Wales defeated England and Argentina in Cardiff, they were in a pool with South Africa, Samoa and Fiji, teams they had never beaten in a World Cup. Many predicted they would again miss out on the last eight.
They have both revived the spirit of the 2009 Lions in South Africa, a squad made up largely of Irish and Welsh players and most of the Wales management. The series may have been lost, narrowly, but the players who made a major impact – Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe, Paul O'Connell, Jamie Heaslip, Jamie Roberts, Mike Phillips, Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones – have been the ones who have inspired their teams in the last month.
Ireland's victory over Australia, only the second time in World Cups that a Six Nations team has defeated a Tri-Nations side in the group stage, may have been based on a shrewd plan that lured the Wallabies into a game they were not expecting, especially up front, but it was the focus and drive of O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Heaslip, supplemented by huge performances from Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien, that helped Ireland not only to exert a firm grip, but also to sustain it for the whole match.
Wales should have beaten South Africa in the opening match, although if Rhys Priestland or James Hook had succeeded with late kicks they would probably have been preparing to face Australia now, but defeat left them needing to beat Samoa the following week, victors over them in 1991 – as Western Samoa – and 1999.
It was a nervy match Wales would probably have lost a year ago, but since drawing with Fiji last November, when the coach, Warren Gatland, used the experience on his bench in the final 30 minutes to deliver victory only to see victory denied at the end, a layer of skin has been shed. Wales won the grand slam in 2008, Gatland's first campaign in charge, but failed to build on it and their encounters with the major southern hemisphere teams become wearily familiar, one honourable defeat after another.
Gatland seemed to reach a tipping point during the Six Nations, defeats to England and France sandwiching three victories. He stopped trusting in experience and a collective of players who, at crucial points in tight matches, found various ways to lose. It is instructive that only five of Wales's starting line-up against Ireland have been involved in more international wins than defeats; four of them, Jonathan Davies, Priestland, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton, have not long been regulars in the side.
They have brought not only the effervescence of youth but they have no fear of failure. Gatland had been planning to blood players after the World Cup, but the draw against Fiji suggested that leaving it that late would risk another unsuccessful campaign, and with it his job. He was accused of being conservative last season, but he has picked a back three, made up entirely of wings, and a back row with an average age of 22.
The wing George North has, at the age of 19, been one of the players of the tournament. Wales will use his might to run at his opposite number, Keith Earls, while Roberts will look to go down Ronan O'Gara's channel. Warburton has been compared to Richie McCaw because of his work at the breakdown, and with Dan Lydiate having made an unexpected recovery from an ankle injury, Wales have their first choice.
Ireland's back row has been the talk of the tournament, but Wales will be aware of how Northampton stretched Sean O'Brien in the first half of the Heineken Cup final in May. It was when Leinster moved O'Brien from open-side to blind-side flanker that they got on top. Although he is not a fetcher in the mould of Warburton or Australia's David Pocock, Ireland have blended their loose trio of Heaslip, O'Brien and Stephen Ferris, and Wales will prefer width than the centre channels.
Healy has been a revelation. It was only a couple of seasons ago that he struggled in the scrum against Australia, but no one pushes him around now. He reflects Ireland, all power and bustle, and if the victory over Australia was notable, last weekend's success against Italy was more noteworthy, subduing awkward opponents before ruthlessly finishing them off.
Both sides bear the imprint of their captain. For all his classical centre play, O'Driscoll is fiercely competitive, a warrior without fear and as mentally tough a player as there is. Warburton is less demonstrative but his players follow him and his appointment by Gatland was inspired.
Ireland have the experience and the control of Ronan O'Gara, who will plant a few bombs on Leigh Halfpenny. They also have Heineken Cup pedigree, the knowledge of what knock-out demands, but Gatland's young guns are firing. The question is whether they yet quite have the range.
Ireland by not many.

The welsh players seem very relaxed infront of the press going into this quarter final.

Very happy with the snipping underdog tag.

Ireland possibly not enjoying being favourites, masses of expectation already bundled on to there shoulders.

Ireland don't mind being favourites. At club level Leinster and Munster are often favourites, 12/15 of the starting team plays for those clubs. I think that's all a bit of a myth to be honest.

That's such a well-written aticle by Paul Rees. Why do we have to put up with Andy Howell in Wales?!

maestegmafia wrote:Wales and Ireland invoke spirit of Lions, the New Zealand public have taken the Celts to their hearts, seeing them as antidotes to northern torpor

red stag wrote:
I find the notion of being labelled "Celtic" actually insulting. However I am Irish and couldn't really care if England won or lost..

blue muff wrote: +1

Irish and couldnt care less or more about England than Wales or Scotland..

boyne wrote:I resent the Celtic label as well actually. It means nothing to Irish people. Its usually used by the English to lump Scots Irish and Welsh into the one bucket.

Or used by the (mostly) Welsh and Scots (less so) to coat tail Irish successes..

thommond wrote: Celts aren't really a group of people anymore are they? As Boyne said,it's a term used to lump the Scots,Welsh and Irish together..

luckless_pedestrian wrote:The Celts were never really that much of a group. Even linguistically they're divided into p-Goidelic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton) and c-Goidelic (Irish, Scots Gaelic, Manx)..

roddersm wrote: Didn't a recent genetic study show that the majority of English people were actually Celts anyway as opposed to anglo saxons?.

red stag wrote: I find the term "Celtic" is dismissive which dilutes my countries achievements. I used get sick to death of hearing on old 606 about how "Celtic" teams had won X amount of Grandslams and Heineken Cups and all that.

roddersm wrote: It's only the English who portray them as close.

I was nearly lynched one time in N. Wales by a mob of Welsh football fans for wearing an Ireland rugby top.

feckless rogue wrote: When the Lions tour comes around, Irish people are always insisting that people call the them the British & Irish Lions. I've never heard anyone want them to be called the English and Celtic Lions. I don't know who you think is portraying Ireland, Scotland and Wales as so close

Oh but now youreall "Celts"

That's good for the Irish as I haven't read a single non welsh poster that believes Wales will win.

I am not convinced myself of a Wales win, this is such a young and new team we don't know how they'll react, I know we have the ability, the accuracy and the patience to do it but these are two closely matched sides.

DOD wrote:Dont know mate..ask taff he brought it up. Was just correcting him..

Not as factually correct as you could have been!

maestegmafia wrote:That's good for the Irish as I haven't read a single non welsh poster that believes Wales will win.

I am not convinced myself of a Wales win, this is such a young and new team we don't know how they'll react, I know we have the ability, the accuracy and the patience to do it but these are two closely matched sides.

I’ve read a few, and I’ve read a few neutral pundits going for Wales too.

[quote="Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler"]

maestegmafia wrote:Wales and Ireland invoke spirit of Lions, the New Zealand public have taken the Celts to their hearts, seeing them as antidotes to northern torpor

I didn't write that. It is an article I found interesting and relevent to the thread so I pasted it.

Mickado wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:That's good for the Irish as I haven't read a single non welsh poster that believes Wales will win.

I am not convinced myself of a Wales win, this is such a young and new team we don't know how they'll react, I know we have the ability, the accuracy and the patience to do it but these are two closely matched sides.

I’ve read a few, and I’ve read a few neutral pundits going for Wales too.

Wow, if you come across them again please post links.

So far as I can see the story is all about the exciting new young welsh team, the great rugby they play etc etc and then at the end that they will get knocked out by the paddies.

I think Wales can win, and I think Ireland can win. I don't know who will win. Don't really see the point in trying to predict it either.

maestegmafia wrote:
What on earth has the HEC got to do with a rugby world cup quarter final?

Absolutely nothing mate.

I think you are wrong actually, I think it has a lot to do with it. The format is identical to the RWC, therefore the mindset in approaching each game is the same.

The England 2003 team was built around the Leicester and Wasps HEC winning sides.

Most of the Irish squad have shown themselves to be able to perform in big pressure knock out games, whereas this is new territory for a lot of the Welsh lads.

That said I think the Welsh camp are doing everything right. They look very confident and totally unfased. There's no jibes coming out of the camp or talking themselves up.

The closer this match gets the more I'm thinking this may be Wales time but I hope I'm wrong. It is very difficult to call this one because both sides look so mentally strong and confident. I think the Wales side of 6 months ago maybe would have dropped their heads if they went behind but I don't think that with this team.

I think both these sides will fight this game to the end and it will come down to a bit of luck or individual brilliance to win this one.

hammer Ireland.

Last night I had another random dream where I was talking to BOD. I can't remember what was said, but the last time I had a dream where I was talking to BOD Leinster won the Heineken Cup...if Ireland win I'll freak out.

maestegmafia wrote:Wow, if you come across them again please post links.

So far as I can see the story is all about the exciting new young welsh team, the great rugby they play etc etc and then at the end that they will get knocked out by the paddies.

I've seen more neutrals pick Wales than Ireland. For example the sky sports panel are going for Wales.

I think Wales might win.

Also the term "paddies" is not very PC. This is 2011 not the 1980's.

Cari wrote:Last night I had another random dream where I was talking to BOD. I can't remember what was said, but the last time I had a dream where I was talking to BOD Leinster won the Heineken Cup...if Ireland win I'll freak out.

He wasn't on a plane when you were talking to him was he?

Maesteg, why does it matter who the pundits think will win?

roddersm wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Wow, if you come across them again please post links.

So far as I can see the story is all about the exciting new young welsh team, the great rugby they play etc etc and then at the end that they will get knocked out by the paddies.

I've seen more neutrals pick Wales than Ireland. For example the sky sports panel are going for Wales.

I think Wales might win.

Also the term "paddies" is not very PC. This is 2011 not the 1980's.

Cosindering theres someone call Taff posting on here and one of the Irish team is called Paddy I think its more acceptable than "Celt"

I can’t remember where I read it but I think Colin Meads went for Wales.

I’m pretty sure (and I hope he doesn’t mind me quoting him on this) but PcPete has predicted Wales. I’m sure I’ve seen a few others.

roddersm wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Wow, if you come across them again please post links.

So far as I can see the story is all about the exciting new young welsh team, the great rugby they play etc etc and then at the end that they will get knocked out by the paddies.

I've seen more neutrals pick Wales than Ireland. For example the sky sports panel are going for Wales.

I think Wales might win.

Also the term "paddies" is not very PC. This is 2011 not the 1980's.

I am a neutral, and I've tipped Wales to make the final since before the final round of pool games.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Maesteg, why does it matter who the pundits think will win?

Because if it's the other team it means you can keep the chip on your shoulder