Tiger Woods

First topic message reminder :

I thought as we have not had thread on him for some time I would start one:

Watched his game on Sky last night, and what surprised me is, he is still so wayward of the tee, and I would say lost his touch around the green on last nights veiwing.

Question:

Who thinks he will make the cut??
Who thinks a top 25 finish??
Who thinks a top 10 finish??
Who thinks he might still win it??

My money would be to 10 finish

"Indeed Mac, but the same principles apply."

Honestly I did not read beyond that statement as it is totally inaccurate. You do spout a load of crap on here sr.

I believe that because of Tiger Woods more people see golf as a sport rather than just the hobby of fat, rich white men.
At the same time Monty was doing his best to make the world believe that golf is a hobby played by fat, rich white men....

McLaren wrote:"Indeed Mac, but the same principles apply."

Honestly I did not read beyond that statement as it is totally inaccurate. You do spout a load of crap on here sr.

Because you can't explain why over-spending is a good idea

Diggers wrote:I believe that because of Tiger Woods more people see golf as a sport rather than just the hobby of fat, rich white men.
At the same time Monty was doing his best to make the world believe that golf is a hobby played by fat, rich white men....

It still is. The majority of people I see on golf courses ARE fat, rich white men.

I'm white; a little overweight I'll admit. I wish I was rich though!

I best some weight on then to meet SR's stereotype there










oh and win the euro millions

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:I believe that because of Tiger Woods more people see golf as a sport rather than just the hobby of fat, rich white men.
At the same time Monty was doing his best to make the world believe that golf is a hobby played by fat, rich white men....

It still is. The majority of people I see on golf courses ARE fat, rich white men.

Sorry Super do not know what part of the country you play golf in, but of the golf courses around my area, the majority of members are made up of hard working people, who enjoy their hobby, and although not Tiger fans, but do love to watch his ability on the course.

Kwini,

I agree there are positives and negatives when comparing todays game to 1996, but it was always a risk that the game would not be able to sustain the growth Tiger generated.

As stated the game was in a healthy state and growing at a steady pace pre 1996 due a series of stars who were both respected and popular inside and outside the game of golf. In my time I've lived through Jack Nicklaus, Lee Trevino, Tom Watson, Greg Norman, Seve, Nick Faldo and Ernie Else (sorry, I've probably missed someones favourite).

Tiger came along and the game took a step change because golf fans loved to watch him and non golf fans were attracted to the game. Golf had the best sportsman in the world for the first time, and a real athlete to boot. Tiger did to world golf what Seve did to european golf 20 years earlier (its also the case that many European Golf Resorts are struggling now).

Tiger always played a limited schedule, always chased the corperate dollor, always gave the press and fans the bare minimum but while he was winning there weren't too many complaints. Watching the attention he was getting at tournaments it seemed reasonabale to me at the time that he should try to protect his privacy. He had his flaws, but we had the chance to watch the best golf in history.

In the past the best golfers of each generation have seemlessly handed over the mattle to the next generation. A few years of mixed play and the occassional success followed by a career on the Senior Tour or commentary or golf design.

The big difference with Tiger is that he fell off a cliff in his prime due to his personnal life then the injury to his knee and left a void to be filled and this coincided with the worst recession since the 30's. The personnal life stuff is his fault (sorry not meaning to judge, but not really acceptable behavour for any sporting hero), but his knee injury and the games dependance on him are not his fault. Those in charge of golf were more than happy to promote Tiger to the hilt and a lot of people in the golf business are much richer because of Tiger. I for one can't blame Tiger for maximising his own income.

Boom and bust, but Tiger should not take all the blame. I appreciate many tournaments are stuggling for sponsership but there are some great players coming through and every chance Tiger will be back at some level for the next 5 years. It may take a couple of years to reset the financial clock but the game should be okay.

Scottie,
Can't disagree wildly with anything you say.
Of course Tiger drove a bandwagon, and of course people and organizations (most egregiously the PGA Tour and its sycophants in other Major Tours) have jumped on board, to Hell with the consequences.

I would like to have seen Tiger be more magnanimous as an individual, to the Tour, to the media, to the fans, but that's not his way. His genius has been to exploit everything that he's earned and everything that he's been handed.

I would have expected him to wish for his legacy to be more than that and there's plenty of time for him to mature - after all he's only 35. But not holding my breath.

Certainly agree also that, although I foresee more economic polarisation in the United States before things even out more democratically, the game will regain its strength and growth curve, hopefully modest.

And if he returns to his best and gathers in more Majors, he'll be the best golfer of all time!

oldparwin wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:I believe that because of Tiger Woods more people see golf as a sport rather than just the hobby of fat, rich white men.
At the same time Monty was doing his best to make the world believe that golf is a hobby played by fat, rich white men....

It still is. The majority of people I see on golf courses ARE fat, rich white men.

Sorry Super do not know what part of the country you play golf in, but of the golf courses around my area, the majority of members are made up of hard working people, who enjoy their hobby, and although not Tiger fans, but do love to watch his ability on the course.

As I'm sure there always has been op, so let's not pretend that woods as brought about a socio demographic sea change in golf.

Super

You are so outnumbered by everyday golfers, who know what huge changes the Tiger factor has made to golf.

It is only a small minority like you who, are in complete denial

So Kwini, the foundation and the monies raised for the forces all just a sham ?

Digs,
I've said what I think about the foundation in an earlier post.
Not sure about "monies raised for the forces", help me on that one, but as the son of a career serviceman, I can't abide all the garbage about supporting/honouring "our military".

If the bloody Government doesn't support them (better now it has to be said), anything the rest of us can contribute is just a futile gesture.

You could say that about any charity Kwini. I think you judge him far too harshly personally, but I guess I can understand why. I remember you one criticising him for missing a memorial event when the guy had died even though he'd always played it when he was alive.
I guess that in a nutshell highlights how I doubt we'll ever agree on Woods.

Diggers,
That "guy" was Byron Nelson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you remember correctly I also criticised others, and castigated Finchem for giving the "Nelson" a godawful date as soon as he'd turned his back.
Tournament has never really recovered (partly cos it's played on a dogtrack of a course), despite, YES!!!, it's being the number one charitable contributor among regular Tour events, think The Players might actually fork over more.

I have in interest in Finchem or the games administrators so probably just blanked that part. To be brutally honest I dont have any interest in Byron Nelson either.....

oldparwin wrote:Super

You are so outnumbered by everyday golfers, who know what huge changes the Tiger factor has made to golf.

It is only a small minority like you who, are in complete denial

Op, I completely agree that woods has affected how many people now watch golf, but he's had no influence on club technology or how we play the game as amateurs.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs BACK

170 posts on a Tiger Wood thread, not bad for a guy outside the World top 50.

Never really thought of Nelson as a great. He had a very short career and not long after the guys came back from WW2 he retired.

Doon,
My point had been that everyone in golf paid obsequious homage to Lord Byron and his tournament when he was alive, and were off like a dirty shirt as soon as he'd taken a header.
Not sure I picked out Tiger especially but of course no-one does obsequious any better. Except Jim Nantz.

My point being the dead don't have a clue who is respecting them but the living do and Tiger did what he needed to when Nelson was alive. He didn't have to play the event at all.

Ironically America "celebrates" Columbus Day today!

oldparwin wrote:Super

You are so outnumbered by everyday golfers, who know what huge changes the Tiger factor has made to golf.

It is only a small minority like you who, are in complete denial

Op, I completely agree that woods has affected how many people now watch golf, but he's had no influence on club technology or how we play the game as amateurs.

kwinigolfer wrote:Ironically America "celebrates" Columbus Day today!

So how many Americans realise Columbus never set foot on the continent when they celebrate this Kwini?

Not that I'm naive enough to think that many give him a passing thought today anyway. Any more than we all dance around maypoles on the May BH...

The thing for me is when Tiger was at his peak it was nice to watch if you were a neutral as I can see why some got entralled with what he could do. But as an avid golf fan I found it hard to watch him and like him. Everyone on here knows I like the Stricker/Donald type who plot a way around the course, keeping it on the short stuff and letting their wedge play and putting take front stage; not the tiger type bomb it and find find brigade. That said I actually find myself liking Tiger more since the slump and getting caught out giving a whole host of lady gardens an introduction to his man sausage. It's shown him as a human being that is not beyond reproach or above average play; despite what his ardent fans think/thought.

I find the draw of his game in need of much work far more enthralling to watch to see if he can return to the heady heightsof old. So in a sense I'm more of a fan since his demise than I ever was pre 2009 when I simply couldn't stand him.

Ryder Cups and various major finishes (Van de velde included) has done just as much for golf interest as Tiger has.