Quarter final four; NZ vz Argentina

First topic message reminder :

Not sure if ones been posted. As long as we win its a start.

But if an English supporter, Mr. Ghiost, wrote that, he or she would be lambasted from here to the heavens for the highest and most egregious forms of arrrogance. As well as invitinmg some psychiatric assistance for being a bit delusional.

All i can say is mid second half there was a touch of the 2007 feeling creeping back and if I felt it GH will definitely have felt it.
Next week will be less structured but now Im not so confident. Our best player was an overweight maori boy from wainui. No disrespect to anyone there but despite argies spoiling it was effective.
Cruden has to come in and is a year on from where slade is.
We need smarts and quicks against oz- not nerves. Slade is the future. Cruden has both now.

There were some monster hits from the Argentinians. I don´t know how many times I saw McCaw being driven back in the tackle. Australia won´t put up that kind of ferocious defence. But they will ask different questions of the ABs than today.

But we must learn from Brisbane and know the best way to combat Australia is up the middle. This game today gave us a good workout up front. The pick and go and get Australia moving back and then exploit the defensive line moving backwards. Huge game needed from the pack.

Weepu can take the pressure off the kickers but Australia will be looking to disrupt him. So we need good ball preservation and getting over the advantage line. Will have to wait on injuries. Hopefully Dagg is back and Kahui. Not convinced by SBW on the wing.

Is it just me who thinks Wales look like the best team out of the 4 semi finalists on current form?

rodders, Wales are building nicely through the tournament. They´re looking sharp in the pack and penetrating in the backs. No doubt they are the form side.

France will ask questions of them in the forwards (if they turn up mentally) as they have a huge forward pack and if they get front foot ball they have backs that can finish well. But I wouldn´t be surprised if Wales get to the final. They are looking very handy indeed. Good to see them do so well. We need more teams at the top of world rugby and they seem to be delivering on their promise. Whoever plays them in the final will have plenty of work cut out for them.

NZ's defence has been suspect in every game. We've conceded cheap tries. That's the biggest worry for me.

Wales looked good yes, but everything depends on the quality of the opposition and the way the game is controlled.

I still think we lack an out-and-out wing like Gear, we lacked bench impact today. Williams and Toeava can add something off the bench, but I think we're putting all our eggs in some of the wrong baskets at the moment.

I did think the ref was lenient on NZ at times but it wouldn't have made much of a difference NZ were always in control of that game. Let's go Kiwis!!!

It's a nice feeling to hear fans from other nations showing respect towards the Welsh side.

Thank you.

Ghost, maybe this shows that all nations are struggling with depth from the standpoint of having (or not having) killer players at each position. All nations have key injuries which puts additional pressure. In other words, no perfect team at the moment. The ABs obviously still look the best, but could be one more key injury away from joining the rest of the pack.

Agree GG. Toeava was not good for me. Hopefully Dagg and Kahui come back and SBW comes off the bench.

Australia will be looking at how Argentina opened up NZ´s line on many occasions. I think McCaw and Read are still not quite there but at least they stayed on the pitch. Slade´s injury will ask questions of whether Cruden will start. If Slade´s injury is serious is it time to call up Berquist for cover? Maybe Thomson comes back from injury but we seem to be wafer thin in certain positions.

Its not important doc.
Just an observation ive stuck with over the last year.
In 87 we managed a 20 point diff for all matches.
Just seeing if we can match our first home effort.
Other than that not a lot as with a bit here or there we may have lost.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Agree GG. Toeava was not good for me. Hopefully Dagg and Kahui come back and SBW comes off the bench.

Australia will be looking at how Argentina opened up NZ´s line on many occasions. I think McCaw and Read are still not quite there but at least they stayed on the pitch. Slade´s injury will ask questions of whether Cruden will start. If Slade´s injury is serious is it time to call up Berquist for cover? Maybe Thomson comes back from injury but we seem to be wafer thin in certain positions.

Read and McCaw clearly broke early to cover Slade who was crocked, simple but smart for the Argies to anticipate that and go inside.

Saw enough of Cowan to know that he shouldn't feature again. Just terrible.

Berquist is with Leinster. So he is not an option. Nick Evans would be the best but I think the NZRU would be too stubborn to allow a player in the NH play for them.

Taylorman wrote:Its not important doc.
Just an observation ive stuck with over the last year.
In 87 we managed a 20 point diff for all matches.
Just seeing if we can match our first home effort.
Other than that not a lot as with a bit here or there we may have lost.

OK. Just checking. Didn't really think you considered it a big deal, but I had to ask. The good news is you keep going. Although I think the Wallabies will play very well next weekend, I just can't see them gettig by you. Sets up an interesting final.

He´s not there yet though is he Thomond?

GG it wasn´t just time. They slipped off a couple.

He has played for them twice Kia according to the Leinster site.

I couldn't quite understand why the English ITV commentary kept saying "Well, it's close, but it is NZ in a Quarterfinal at the RWC, so what did you expect?" they said something along those lines at least 5 times.

Schadenfreud, from a TV presenter? Pretty sad stuff. I thought it kind of revealed their ignorance since NZ have gone out in fewer than England, for starters. Not to mention massively disrespecting Argentina's performance...

Ok cheers mate. Then it´s Cruden and Slade then. Don´t want to see Weepu go to first five. Cowan shouldn´t be allowed anywhere near the team.

GG, the ITV commentators are the worst we have ever had to suffer. The anchor man knows nothing about rugby and feeds of what the rest of the ill-informed media peddle, hence the totally inaccurate asides. It's not going to change, sadly.

On the game itself, I was pretty disappointed for Slade. He doesn't look ready for the shirt, no confidence, and whilst I don't know anything about the performances at club level that got him there the way he's been handled is likely to be a big part of it from what I have read on these boards. Sad, these should have been heady days for him and could be disastrous for his career. Cruden looked steadier but no great shakes. Looking in from the outside it surprises me that you should be in the situation where you have positions that aren't heavily contested throughout the 15. I obviously suffer from that NH illusion that there is just a constant conveyor belt of top class players just waiting to oust the big names.

Hope you sort things out for the semis. You've got to put the Aussies in their place for the sake of my sanity.

I think the contenders for DC understudy from club rugby would be:

Nick Evans - obviously not available, made his choice.

Luke McAllistair - has never reached his potential, ran off to the UK too soon and failed to show consistency when he returned. Not helped by being played in various positions. Left for another UK contract

Stephen Brett - one from the Cantab conveyer. Suffered in DC's shaddow for regular playing time, moved to the Blues, now injured.

Stephen Donald - Tried. Failed. Move on.

Colin Slade - Everyone knows the story, now crocked too.

Aaron Cruden - Now The Man, apparently.

Lachie Munro - Can play 1st 5, but again has been moved around and mostly played reserve 2nd five or on the wing or at full back.

Kahn Fotuali’i - Can play half back or 1st 5. Capped for Samoa

Taniela Moa - Can play 9 or 10. Capped for Tonga.

Tusi Pisi - Unfortunately Samoan despite playing most of his rugby in NZ.

Some decent options there, but the theme seems to be that either the player failed to get regular time at 1st 5, was living in DC's shaddow at club level, left for club rugby in England, failed to be spotted by the selectors before being named for a PI team, or just not considered good enough.

Cupboards are bare, I'm afraid.

Luke McAlister would be a good shout there - I think people are being a little bit cotton wooly with Slade, you're either up to it mate or not, he seems to ooze a lack of confidence and played like a 17 year old in his first club game just looking to pass to the nearest person, his kicking was also woeful. He's clearly not ready for this IMO - Be bold Henry and make the right call, now is not the time for a kid like this. Its still N Zealands to lose IMO and they are more than capable of doing that against Aus.

McAllsair's gone to Toulouse GG. Is that in order or just a list? I never though McAllistair would make a good out half, a good centre and I can remember being dsiappointed by the fact Munster didn't sign him post 2007 RWC. Doug Howlett hasn't been an awful signing though....

Thomond wrote:Berquist is with Leinster. So he is not an option. Nick Evans would be the best but I think the NZRU would be too stubborn to allow a player in the NH play for them.

Berquist injured anyway - broke his kneecap in a preseason game for Leinster - looks like he'll be out for a good few weeks

It's easy to say Slade looked out of his depth. But if he had put in the kind of performance Cooper put in today, he'd have been slated in the same way.

Fact is he dropped an early pass and then was injured after about 10 minutes. Not easy to judge a guy on that basis.

Agree he seemed to be molly-coddled into the game in a confidence sapping sort of way, he didn't seem to have a Cooper-esque swagger or a Steyn-like calm aura surrounding him. It's my personal opinion that you can tell very quickly if a guy has the mindset to survive in the international cauldron and he seemed a bit too much a victim of his anxiety. I've come to reluctantly accept that the AB selectors and staff know more about rugby than me, so I'm letting them pick the squad from now on...

"It's easy to say Slade looked out of his depth. But if he had put in the kind of performance Cooper put in today, he'd have been slated in the same way."

why do you think that lol- he was gash-therefore he was gash if he was good- he would have been good

Oakey - we got ourselves some pedigree this weekend eh!

mystiroakey wrote:"It's easy to say Slade looked out of his depth. But if he had put in the kind of performance Cooper put in today, he'd have been slated in the same way."

why do you think that lol- he was gash-therefore he was gash if he was good- he would have been good

Cooper is brilliant when on form, but if you judged him on the game today you would come to the conclusion he was gash. Slade made an early error and didn't have time on the pitch to redeem himself. I don't blame him for getting injured. It just happens. DC has made early errors and then played a stormer. Maybe Slade was about to roll out a 1st 5/8th master class when he was cut down by an untimely injury.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"It's easy to say Slade looked out of his depth. But if he had put in the kind of performance Cooper put in today, he'd have been slated in the same way."

why do you think that lol- he was gash-therefore he was gash if he was good- he would have been good

Cooper is brilliant when on form, but if you judged him on the game today you would come to the conclusion he was gash. Slade made an early error and didn't have time on the pitch to redeem himself. I don't blame him for getting injured. It just happens. DC has made early errors and then played a stormer. Maybe Slade was about to roll out a 1st 5/8th master class when he was cut down by an untimely injury.

I thought both Cooper and Genia were both, as you say, gash today. It's funny that Australia won in spite of those two. Cooper hasn't had a good world cup, in fact, it has pretty much reinforced the notion that he is a poor man's Carlos Spencer.

Right, think I've said this one earlier but now is the time for the NZRFU to bring in someone who can do the job for them if Slade is out of the WC - Nick Evans. He is the 2nd best flyhalf in the world. It makes sense, everyone knows it does.

If Mils is out then it is only logical that we bring in Hosea Gear. Dagg and Jane cover 15 and we now have a specialist winger. Mils, what a superb player he has been. It was quite touching to see him overcome with emotion during the anthem today. Most NZers and especially All Blacks usually keep emotions hidden, sometimes with detrimental effects, but it was refreshing to see some heart-on-sleeve emotion

Anyway

Slade out = Evans in
Mils out = Gear in

If this doesn't happen then god knows

At least in one game we've sorted our backline issues.

We now have Slade and mils out and a virtual Hurricanes backline- Weepu, Cruden, Nonu, Smith, Jane with Kahui and Dagg to return.

Why Evans name is even mentioned is beyond me. He's history. made his choice years ago.

We've had our wake up call and GH is in new territory. Oz awaits and I think we're in a very good position.

The Cooper situation is one Deans will need to ponder very carefully over. Normally Cooper would in NO WAY be reslected after that effort and having lost his mojo with NZ crowds it aint going to get better at Eden park with 60,000 screaming at him.

This script was written by Cooper himself during the 3N whether anyone likes to admit it or not and he is now facing up to it. He's still in denial that it affects him- he looked shaky, unsure and hesitant- not a good frame of mind to go into this weeks match with...

Deal with it Deans or someone else will...

Taylorman wrote:Why Evans name is even mentioned is beyond me. He's history. made his choice years ago.

Because he is still, after his choice years ago to go to the NH, the second best flyhalf in the world. If Slade is out, which we don't know as yet, who are we going to call up to replace him? Tony Brown? Gareth Anscombe? Lima Sopoanga?

Cruden played well this morning. I would still feel a little easier knowing that we had a proven performer in our ranks. Wouldn't you?

Na.
Like I said. made his choice. How can he be second best playing English club rugby and not a single SXV, or test match for 4 years. How exactly is that comparison made?

I'm assuming he's by far the best 10 in the NH club scene then? Because Carter sure would be, and if Evans isnt, then what is he? 2nd, 3rd, 4th?

In an interview last week he says he left because he 'couldnt sit behind the 'freak' (Dan Carter).

What logic is that? He could have played sxv and taken his chances to unseat or play second tests to Carter- if he didnt get tests so be it, he wasnt getting them in the NH anyway. So he chose the club money of the NH over the Sxv and potential of test match rugby here. We don't need that sort of player in the AB's.

GH has never mentioned him. For a reason.

Taylorman wrote:At least in one game we've sorted our backline issues.

We now have Slade and mils out and a virtual Hurricanes backline- Weepu, Cruden, Nonu, Smith, Jane with Kahui and Dagg to return.

Why Evans name is even mentioned is beyond me. He's history. made his choice years ago.

We've had our wake up call and GH is in new territory. Oz awaits and I think we're in a very good position.

The Cooper situation is one Deans will need to ponder very carefully over. Normally Cooper would in NO WAY be reslected after that effort and having lost his mojo with NZ crowds it aint going to get better at Eden park with 60,000 screaming at him.

This script was written by Cooper himself during the 3N whether anyone likes to admit it or not and he is now facing up to it. He's still in denial that it affects him- he looked shaky, unsure and hesitant- not a good frame of mind to go into this weeks match with...

Deal with it Deans or someone else will...

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy his line that he loves being targeted in NZ. I think the pressure of being singled out is getting to him. It's making him precocious and silly. The whole episode is a bit naive. When you make it personal like he did, it shows a lack of composure. It shows the ABs had got into his head and were making him feel inadequate. His underhanded skulduggery indicates to me that he feels he can't compete on a level playing field. He's trying to hard to be a primadona and not focussing on his core tasks.

Weepu carried NZ today and it will do his confidence a world of good, he couldn't quite spark the back line, but I think Nonu/Smith will be better for the hit out, and will be more fired up next week. We sorely missed Dag's spark at the back, a dimension was missing. I'm immensely proud that we muscled up and beat the Argies up front.

We struggled in the first half, but I think Slade was never quite right mentally, and he limped through 20 minutes with an injury, was pre-occupying our defense trying to cover for him and he couldn't function on attack. I think with (presumably) Cruden in place from the start we'll be more cohesive. Although I do worry about our tactical kicking.

I'll see how the injuries pan out this week before I start to consider predicting anything.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

He's trying to hard to be a primadona and not focussing on his core tasks.

Precisely... and he's making the mistake of making it worse for himself in the media -"loves the boos" etc.

Ok if its true...deadly if its a smokescreen. I don't wish anything bad on him but its something he needs to be honest with himself with, cos he wasn't world class or anything like it yesterday.

Thomond wrote:McAllsair's gone to Toulouse GG. Is that in order or just a list? I never though McAllistair would make a good out half, a good centre and I can remember being dsiappointed by the fact Munster didn't sign him post 2007 RWC. Doug Howlett hasn't been an awful signing though....

He's been superb for Toulouse so far this season, much better than he was for Sale. They're top of the French league at the moment, having lost only one game, which was their first of the season and the only game he didn't start at FH.