Paul McGinley's spanish club hire 'service'

by gaelgowfer Sun 09 Oct 2011, 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Paul McGinley's spanish club hire 'service'

He needs to either sack his man in Spain or give up this idea. Reliability surely has to form the core of any successful business.

Mr Gael decided he'd try hiring clubs (wanted to try out latest Taylor Made model and what better way than to play them for a week). Unfortunately, when it came to handing them back at the pre-arranged meeting time, McGinley's rep was nowhere to be seen and the contact number turned out to be unobtainable. After 20 minutes had passed and our flight departure time drew ever closer we were fast approaching the stage when we'd have to either dump the clubs or face missing our flight ... the latter not being an option!

As it happened, the chappie in the car hire firm next door had a more up to date number and phoned disreputable rep who informed him he'd be there shortly. Ten minutes later, still waiting and, just as we were about to dump them outside the door, disreputable rep phoned the car hire firm to ask how many sets of clubs were being left. Car hire chappie advised him that it was just the one and that point he said he wouldn't therefore be arriving at the shop until 6 o'clock (10 minutes before our flight was due to take off!), the implication being that disreputable rep would have only made the effort had it been multiple sets? Anyway, car hire chappie kindly allowed us to leave the clubs with him for later collection. We thanked him and made our way to the airport.

One thing did puzzle me at the time all this was going on. Car hire chappie didn't seem at all put out at being 'put upon' by disreputable rep. Indeed, he was so laid back about it all that I decided to check out McGinley's club hire website myself on returning home. Quelle surprise ... the name of the car hire company next door is included. Club dumping area in exchange for free advertising? Not that I have any problems with that other than I wish they'd informed us that this might happen!!!

Huge black mark to McGinley for causing needless stress. Some folk might not be at all bothered at the prospect of dumping someone else's property in the street but it bothers me!

by McLaren Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:14 pm

davie

"On the point of "comprehension skills", that's not the first time you've accused people of that. Maybe, just maybe, the fault in that case is yours"

No it is always the same people that get the wrong end of the stick and geal is not one of them.

by Diggers Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:27 pm

Is it really up to the customer to worry about whether the rep had a personal crisis? There should be a fail safe mechanism in place even if he did and there clearly wasn't.
Anyway it's a start up, it will have teething problems for sure but hopefully will get over them as we all seem to agree the concept is good.

by Davie Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:33 pm

Mac - I think you misunderstood me (probably my fault). I wasn't saying gael was guilty of non-comprehension. I was saying that as gael frequently accuses others of misunderstanding her, perhaps the cause is her inablity to express herself rather than everyone else's fault for not understanding her.

Maybe you are just being mischievous by pretending to misunderstand what I was saying. Or maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. If that is the case, at least I don't call you stupid for not getting what I meant

by JPX Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:45 pm

Diggers wrote:Is it really up to the customer to worry about whether the rep had a personal crisis?

Of course not but in my view if you are unhappy with a service to the extent that Gael obviously is, then complain!

I work in quality management and every month I'm asked to report how many complaints we had the previous month, once when it was low the MD's response was "Good, we must be doing a good job". so, being in an argumentative mood, I replied, "Maybe, or maybe people just aren't bothering to complain". I was asked to explain myself and stated that we were more than likely failing in some areas, we were just not aware of it. It's impossible to get it 100% right, 100% of the time.

I'm sure any one of you owned your own company and had an unhappy customer you would want to know about it so you could change things to avoid more unhappy customers? Or would you want them to instead post on a forum telling people to avoid your company?

So without a complaint how will the company know this part of their business is failing?

by JPX Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:49 pm

Rhetorical question by the way, I'm not interested in any more clever replies, I shall have to remember to just agree with everyone from now on.

by Diggers Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:50 pm

I dont disagree with that JPX bit I do find your criticism of Gaels issues a bit harsh. And having spend 10 years working for a tour operator I also know just how shocking the service often is.

by McLaren Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:51 pm

Davie

I understood what you meant. What I meant is that geal clearly explained her points and the usual candidates could not comprehend her easily understandable posts.

by Diggers Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:53 pm

You don't have to agree with anyone, and anyway quite a few people have sided with you on here. I've had plenty of run ins with Gael but that doesn't mean I can't agree with her on this topic.

by Maverick Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:58 pm

A company can only improve on areas it has failed in through customer feedback. No company will get it 100% any of the time, there will always be something for a customer to complain about this is simply the nature of business.

Each business puts focus on specific areas and the crux of it is, this means some areas sadly will be neglected. It is up to the consumer to inform them of what a bad experience they have had so that this can be addressed to prevent it happening to others in future. This will also mean in event of any complaint/feedback something is done to recompense the customer who has had the misfortune to suffer bad service.

So my advice would be let the company know of your poor service and see what they are willing to do to put it right.

Also i'm with Diggers we don't always have to agree with each other, many times Diggers and I disagreed and happy to go for a round of golf when we both have our sleepless nights sorted to some extent, and i've had many a run in with Gael. Simply agree to disagree and move on

by JPX Mon 10 Oct 2011, 5:00 pm

Harsh? Apart from my initial response, for which I have apologised for numerous times, all I have done is say some home truths, which obviously weren't appreciated. If that means I'm stupid and lacking in comprehension skills then so be it.

by Diggers Mon 10 Oct 2011, 5:04 pm

Home truths don't tend to be appreciated by anyone very often in my experience, they are the worst kind of truth to hear.

by Doon the Water Mon 10 Oct 2011, 5:23 pm

JPX
I am an ex QM lead auditor.
In fact I was the first manager to receive the kite mark for a golf course and driving range.

You have a good point re Gael not complaining directly to the company.

Our business was very complaints/suggestion focused and our standard was one compaint per 4.5K customers which we achieved easily.
BSI were very focused on how we dealt with complaints/suggestions.
Some complaints/suggestions were trivial in the extreme and a standard reply was sent.

The cruix of the system was about complaint trends, eg the range balls are dirty.

The QM route was a good road to travel and I think many private clubs should consider it.

by liegerwoods Tue 11 Oct 2011, 9:34 pm

i was self employed for over 10 years and worked in the building trade. i never advertised and relied on word of mouth. not every job ran smoothly and the main complaint was over run on the schedule but i could always come to some arrangement or agreement with the customer. it was in my best interest to leave a customer feeling pleased with the overall service....which includes dealing with complaints!!

gael is the worst type of customer.

the type that just bad mouths rather than dealing with the problem.

still dont know whether mr gael liked the clubs....to busy moaning probably.

on the being stupid front....clearly i am ....trying to win an argument with a woman Very Happy

by JPX Wed 12 Oct 2011, 10:46 am

Now I fully expect most of you and the moderators will think I'm out of order for this, but seeing as how this company was being so badly criticised (IMO unfairly), and the OP had no intention of making them aware of the issue, I thought I would bring it to their attention to give them a chance to address the problem (and so increase customer satisfaction). Here's the response i received within 12 hours of contacting them.

Thank you for the link to the forum site discussing a problem with a return of clubs to our Malaga store.

For me to officially reply to this complaint, I can only contact the end user of the booking.

I can confirm that no charge our deposit was taken from the clients card and this was a one off scenario due to a mix up on timings with our staff.

I am however very disappointed with the disparaging remarks about our Ambassador Paul McGinley on this forum and would like to know how I can clear that up.

It is very strange for a client not to contact us when they have an issue with our service.

Thankfully we don't get that many, but if we don't get feedback we can not fix things.

We have had over 15000 satisfied clients, so I was shocked to read the comments on the site

Thanks again for your interest.

Tony Judge
Chief Executive

by JDandfries Wed 12 Oct 2011, 10:55 am

So you have now turned grass?

You realise how serious this could now get?

by Mercurio Wed 12 Oct 2011, 11:08 am

JDandfries wrote:So you have now turned grass?

You realise how serious this could now get?

Are you serious?

Well done, JPX. I completely understand your motives on this.

It even got me to send a letter of appreciation to British Gas after we received a very good service from one of their Homecare engineers recently.

It's no use just to bleat about a problem. Be positive/pro-active.

by JPX Wed 12 Oct 2011, 12:10 pm

JDandfries wrote:So you have now turned grass?

You realise how serious this could now get?

Serious in what respect?

A grass is someone who reports anothers wrong doing to an authority, that's not the case here, I have simply highllighted the issue to the company concerned.

by Maverick Wed 12 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm

Am I missing something? Surely a grass is someone telling tales to teacher/boss etc!

All I can see JPX has done is something that should have been done in the first place and highlighted the issue to the company involved which they had not been given fair chance to address, how does anyone expect a new company to imrpve without feedback!

by 1GrumpyGolfer Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:08 pm

I can see how the views and intentions of JD, Mav and JPX are both right.

The complaint should have been highlighted to the company concerned; how else are they to know what to review, address or resolve.

However, there is a line in the company response that I believe JD is referring to and the potential for consequences:

I am however very disappointed with the disparaging remarks about our Ambassador Paul McGinley on this forum and would like to know how I can clear that up.

It could be that they would look for the right to reply or have these comments or thread taken down, hopefully it won't have repercussions for the site.

by MustPuttBetter Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:11 pm

Whilst I don't agree with Gael's approach, there has been nothing disparaging said about Paul McGinley. I don't see how any action could be taken

by Adam D Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:15 pm

This is a really interesting thread, and I would like to confirm that the comments made by Gaelgofer are his own and not representative of the forum or its owners.

I would also welcome for the company involved (and Mr McGinley) to address their side of the story.

If there are any concerns over the comments posted here as to their innacuracy, then I would urge the company involved to contact me immediately and we will remove the thread if necessary.

You can either do this through joining the site or through the member you have already been in discussion with, who I am sure will forward on your message (or my email address if desired.)

Can we all please ensure that any comments made on this forum are not libellous and carefully considered - the owners monitor the site and do our best to keep any contentious/ slanderous comments but we need you all to take some responsibility too.

I am happy for this thread to carry on at the moment but can you all please tread carefully!

by Davie Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:18 pm

I have spoken to one of the admins about this (still waiting to see if any of the others have comments).

I would say that this thread should stay where it is for the moment, particularly as most people seem to be defending McGinley's company (or at least wondering if there was at least a reasonable excuse for what happened).

If Mr McGinley's representative is still reading this thread I'd like to welcome them to the forum and tell them that they are entitled (and indeed welcome) to register for the forum and put their side - or contact me or one of the admin team if they would like us to put up a statement.

If the McGinley representatives feel that Mr McGinley has been slighted in any way and would like us to remove specific comments, then again, please contact us

I would like to think though that they can see past any disparaging remarks and instead see an opportunity here to put their case, and in fact turn this into an opportunity.

EDIT afterwards: I see my reply and Adam's were pretty much at the same time - and prettymuch say the same thing!

by Adam D Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:21 pm

Davie wrote:

I would like to think though that they can see past any disparaging remarks and instead see an opportunity here to put their case, and in fact turn this into an opportunity.

If they would like my home address to send me a set of golf clubs to review, I would deem this a good opportunity to get a positive feedback thumbsup

by MustPuttBetter Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:21 pm

Let's not get carried away people.
To be fair to Gael, nothing she has said has been in any way libelous and to suggest as much is ridiculous.
This is a forum. Gael has posted an experience plus her opinion. Nothing more. We can debate and disagree but if anyone has a problem with that then a forum really isn't the place for them

by Diggers Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:51 pm

What a joke. If I had a pound for every time someone on here slated the BBC or had a go at Sky or said they had received poor service from a golf club they had visited then Id be a very wealthy man. I wonder how often the people who made those gripes wrote to the company or club concerned, not very many would be the simple answer. Yet Gael has got slated simply becasue she informed some people she may well consider friends of a sort that she had an issue with a service that other people on here might use.
A customer is under no obligation whatsoever to make a complaint but has every right to pass word of poor service to other people. Im glad Gael raised these points, firstly it informed me of the service and secondly it gave me a heads up that if I did use it then Id make a few enquiries about the pick up and drop off element.

by Davie Wed 12 Oct 2011, 4:12 pm

MPB - I don't think anyone is complaining as such. It's just the fact that McGinley's company have now seen the thread that make it slightly different. The has been (and will not be unless events take a turn) no deletions, reports or complaints - only the two (almost simultaneous red pen comments which were to TRY to clear things up)

Diggers - you are quite correct - people here slag off the BBC and Sky and poor service from various sources all the time. The difference here is that that person(s) named has been made aware of the situation and has commented (at least via a 3rd party)

I don't want to judge what JPX has done. It's not something I would have done myself but I can see why he did it. I'm sure McGinley's representative is grateful for the "heads-up" and as I said above, we would love to hear more from them about the matter. I personally don't think McGinley has been libelled but if the company think differently then all we have done is tried to open up channels of communication to resolve matters for the best for everyone concerned - and that includes the forum.

If something was said about the BBC or Sky and they personally commented on it, we would do the same thing for them to give them a right to reply

by MustPuttBetter Wed 12 Oct 2011, 4:23 pm

Davie, I understand the site needs to cover itself 'just in case'.

I just wouldn't like to see Gael condemned for what amounts to nothing more than her opinion. She wrote her post in her own style which we're all accustomed to. I don't always agree with the things Gael says but at the end of the day we're all 'friends' here.

I doubt the company have any grounds on which they can take action. I don't think it would be a bad thing for them to take up your offer and post a reply. Would probably be a good advertising opp for them to be honest

by Mercurio Wed 12 Oct 2011, 4:31 pm

What a ridiculous development.

I blame JD&F's OTT comment.

Rolling Eyes

by Mercurio Wed 12 Oct 2011, 4:37 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:Huge black mark to McGinley for causing needless stress.

Whilst I've never had a problem with gaelgowfer before, you can't come out with comments like that above and not expect to be taken up on them.

I would have thought that's what the company representative had a problem with.

by hogie Wed 12 Oct 2011, 5:35 pm

Right or wrong it is the way the world is going… If you have a bad experience with a company rather than contact a manager and trying to sort it out most people tend to walk away and not do business with that company again and then write about their bad experience on Facebook twitter or in this case a golf forum. Yes it is not fair on the company because they do not get a chance to reply or rectify the situation but from Gaels point of view why should she care if the company fixes this issue or it stays there for years and more and more people get peed off about it and eventually the company goes out of business because they lose so many customers. She has absolutely no vested interest in seeing this company succeed.

That said, Gael, when Paul McGinley is Ryder cup captain if he is upset because his company went out of business and because of this Europe lose the Ryder Cup I will hold you personally responsible!! Wink

by Doon the Water Wed 12 Oct 2011, 5:58 pm

I remember dealing with a total mess up of a golf society booking. It was taken when we were introducing a new booking system and it was entirely our fault.
I said to the organiser 'what can we do to make this right' and he listed a few things that were going to cost us a bob or two and I agreed. He went away very happy that his group of golfers had negotiated a great deal and I went away thinking, thank goodness he is not going to bad mouth us the the West of England's golfers.

by MustPuttBetter Wed 12 Oct 2011, 6:07 pm

Doon
You're lucky 606v2 didn't exist in those days! thumbsup

by SpacemanSpiff Wed 12 Oct 2011, 6:14 pm

Whats the name of this company Doon, I think I'll write to them!

Run

by Doon the Water Wed 12 Oct 2011, 6:34 pm

I have had two problems with a well known Largs resturaunt.

1] Dame Doon found a glass marble in her meal.
2] A dissapointing experience when dining with a disabled friend in a wheelchair.

On both occassions my complaint was dealt with professionally. One was a million to one accident and the other showed up a training weakness.
As corrective action had been taken I would have no hesitation in returning.

by NedB-H Wed 12 Oct 2011, 6:57 pm

Doon the Water wrote:I have had two problems with a well known Largs resturaunt.

1] Dame Doon found a glass marble in her meal.

by MustPuttBetter Wed 12 Oct 2011, 7:04 pm

NedB-H wrote:
Doon the Water wrote:I have had two problems with a well known Largs resturaunt.

1] Dame Doon found a glass marble in her meal.

That's what I thought!

by Doon the Water Wed 12 Oct 2011, 7:13 pm

It was an interesting story as straight I away thought that a staff member on notice was trying to do a bit of sabotage. I took it quite seriously and asked to speak to the manager. He was 'gobsmacked' and said he would investigate.

Innocent outcome as the 'runner' that they put the meal orders on used the marbles as 'ball bearings' and it had broken the previous evening. They thought that they had recovered all the marbles. Mind you how one managed to get on a plate at lunch time the next day is a different story. Maybe it was hiding in the lettuce.

by JPX Wed 12 Oct 2011, 10:02 pm

I have received another response from clubstohire, and they have asked me to post the reply here:

For the sake of completeness would you mind posting this email for me to the forum page. I want the people reading the forum to understand what happened on this occasion.

A client arrived to our shop to return their set of hire clubs. Our rep was not present as he had made a genuine mistake on the staff rota and thought that another member of staff would be present. The client then went into the car hire company located beside our shop. They asked the rep of the car company could they contact the clubs-to-hire rep. Our rep was over 20 minutes away and rather than keep the client waiting agreed that the car hire rep accept the clubs on our behalf. The client agreed to this and headed to the airport. Our Malaga office will have communicated with the client to advise that all was well with the clubs.

As you can appreciate things like this can happen in life and we like to believe that the customer was not overly delayed by the process. Of course if he was not happy he should have dropped us a note and we could have explained the situation direct.

It is a pity that a young and exciting business that has served over 15,000 clients and saves golfers hundreds of thousand of euros / pounds every year, gets blasted because our rep was late to meet one client.

For the forum readers benefit we do not take deposits as security, but purely take the clients credit card details to guarantee the safe return of the clubs.

Thankfully 99.9% of our bookings have no issues what so ever and I have thousands of testimonials backing that up.

I trust this clears the matter up for the readers.

For the benefit of gaelgowfer and those of you who have an issue with me for doing what I have done:

I make no apology for sending them the link, however I will apologise for my tone in my first few replies. I don't have any problem with the issue being raised on this site (even though I don't believe it was necessary), but I do have an issue with the way it was written, and subsequent replies, which have unfairly painted the company in a very negative way.

You may feel it was wrong of me, but I felt they deserved the right to respond. I think their response shows the incident was a one off unfortunate mix up, and they do indeed care about customer satisfaction.

by Davie Thu 13 Oct 2011, 7:01 am

Thanks for that, JPX. I hope they have read the thread again since it was "red penned" and can see that we (as a forum) meant them no harm and were happy, indeed keen, to give them their right to reply

by Diggers Thu 13 Oct 2011, 8:52 am

Bog standard tour op reply. And as always no apology. Exactly what the company I worked for did for 10 years and the sort of reply that is the reason people don't complain.
It says yes we made a mistake but so what these things happen and as far as we know everything was OK for the client so how dare they moan...even though yes we did actually fail in our simple task.

by Davie Thu 13 Oct 2011, 8:58 am

If what the rep says is true then there would appear to be no need for an apology. The explanation covers it

They asked the rep of the car company could they contact the clubs-to-hire rep. Our rep was over 20 minutes away and rather than keep the client waiting agreed that the car hire rep accept the clubs on our behalf. The client agreed to this and headed to the airport. Our Malaga office will have communicated with the client to advise that all was well with the clubs.

by Doon the Water Thu 13 Oct 2011, 9:02 am

Not too impressed with that reply. As Diggers said Bog Standard

They admit to making a mistake in every 1000 transactions.
Imagine if that was your bank account.

by Diggers Thu 13 Oct 2011, 9:13 am

So making clients wait and poor communication ....if any...doesn't warrant an apology? People do get stressed at airports, they don't want to be rushing around because a rep stuffs up a rota. By the way the whole company will exist on that rota so the fact it can so easily go wrong and they are so flippant about it is not a great sign.
That reply would put me off using them.

by Mercurio Thu 13 Oct 2011, 9:17 am

Diggers wrote:So making clients wait and poor communication ....if any...doesn't warrant an apology? People do get stressed at airports, they don't want to be rushing around because a rep stuffs up a rota. By the way the whole company will exist on that rota so the fact it can so easily go wrong and they are so flippant about it is not a great sign.
That reply would put me off using them.

The person with this issue hasn't bothered to make a complaint so who should he be apologising to?

by Diggers Thu 13 Oct 2011, 9:51 am

He's responded to a post on here so he knows an apology would have got to the poster Merc.
Also what gets me is this incredible belief that quality control only comes from a customer making a complaint. I can quarantee you that the reps report will have showed that there was a problem that day and that a client was left waiting and had to drop their clubs elsewhere.
Now the appropriate action for a fledgling company loking to build a good reputation would have been to telephone Gael once the error was picked up and apologise and explain what happened.....thats what good service industries do, they are proactive.
All this company has shown is that they act in the way that every two bit tour operator I have ever known acts.

by Davie Thu 13 Oct 2011, 10:10 am

Our Malaga office will have communicated with the client to advise that all was well with the clubs.

by Diggers Thu 13 Oct 2011, 10:16 am

Not according to Gael Davie, and the wording of that sentance suggests that is what they would have expected to happen, not what actually might have happened. Would Gael have started the thread had they communicated with her and apologised for the inconvenience, highly unlikely I think.

by Mercurio Thu 13 Oct 2011, 10:33 am

Diggers wrote:He's responded to a post on here so he knows an apology would have got to the poster Merc.

Why should anyone be expected to give an apology to someone via a messageboard when the complainant hasn't even bothered to contact them, especially when they chose to badmouth them on a public forum? I know I wouldn't.

And if we're talking about what apologies should be given for then I assume you agree that gael should be making an apology for this comment:

Huge black mark to McGinley for causing needless stress.

by Diggers Thu 13 Oct 2011, 10:39 am

The fact is they shouldnt have to contact them to get an apology for poor service. As I have said in my last post the company will have been 100% aware that they made an error. Once again they are a service industy, I am certain they will have a company mission statement and I guarantee that statement will involve putting the customer first.
And if Paul McGinley puts his name to a product that provides poor service then he deserves 100% to be criticised, he was hands on enough to be talking about it as his company in the Sunday Times last week so he should be happy to have feedback via any medium and possibly he might seek to address any issues.

by LadyPutt Thu 13 Oct 2011, 10:56 am

I worked for a while in customer service (and also as a complaints manager for an NHS trust!) and the first thing I learned is that you should aways apologise to someone who is complaining, even if you don't think it is absolutely necessary. "Sorry" diffuses so many situations and does not signify acceptance of liability - just saying "I am sorry you found our service was lacking in some respects" is all that is needed. A pity the company concerned did not think it worth saying in this case.

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