Lies, damned lies and statistics

Cymru am byth

http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

wow it is amazing that wales have finished 4th in the last two 6n's and are now the top ranked nh side- what a turnaround

Is it true or a big fecking admin error. Ba%%#ds at the IRB on the WUM

is it a late april fools

Does anyone really understand how these calculations are made.

If we beat France will we overtake SA?

on the irb statistics there is a 'rankings explanation' click on there and all is revealed. For instance, points are doubled in the world cup to reflect the importance of the event, mmmm

RWC points count double,Tonga were rated 17 before they jumped 7 places
after defeating France.
If Wales beat France,NZ beat Australia,Wales would be number 2,win the RWC.They would be number one.
Until the 4Ns,6Ns or July internationals or what ever.

EMACK

Thanks. That is mad.

So all we have to do is win the World Cup to become the best in the world...who knew.

but if we do win does that mean we stand still, like England after their 6nations and australia wins? no way !!

I found it amazing that during pool play if France had beaten NZ by even one point they would have gone straight to no. 1 from 6.

(all due to us being at home and double world cup points)

So that's likely what awaits any team that beats NZ I'd say...cake and eat it too..

finbarthedog wrote:EMACK

Thanks. That is mad.

Yes! How dare the winning team at the WORLD CUP be considered the best in the World!

Well Glas I think it has often been said that you don't to be the best in the world to win the world cup.
Until last weekend SA were the World Cup holders but no one was saying they were the best in the world.
Until SA won it in 2007 England were the World Cup holders but no one was saying they were the best in the world.
In fact how many times has the best team in the world won the world cup?
1987. 1991. 1995? 1999? 2003 2007? so say definitely 1/2 the time and only may be 1/2 the time

NZ are the best team in the World at winning, just not at winning World Cups. For the day of the final at least though surely the winners have the right to make the claim no?

No its like winning the Olympic 100ms in 10 seconds.
You might be the Olympic champion but (by modern standards) you're a slow loser.
Chance may be that you win the world cup but are actually crap. eg if England had won in 2007 even the English wouldn't have said they were the best rugby team in the world.

nganboy wrote:Well Glas I think it has often been said that you don't to be the best in the world to win the world cup.
Until last weekend SA were the World Cup holders but no one was saying they were the best in the world.
Until SA won it in 2007 England were the World Cup holders but no one was saying they were the best in the world.
In fact how many times has the best team in the world won the world cup?
1987. 1991. 1995? 1999? 2003 2007? so say definitely 1/2 the time and only may be 1/2 the time

You are saying that only when New Zealand has been in a semi final is the Rugby World cup a valid competition? What was wrong with 95?

If NZ loose it is because they were not as good as the side that beat them. You may find that hard to accept but it is true.

New Zealand have lost plenty of big games when it counts outside the World cup too. Look at the final games of this years or last years Tri nations.

They are a great side, but they constantly prove to us all that they are just as fallible as any other team.

firstly the best team or indiviual will not allways win a cup, there would however win a league style event, or top a given ranking. Thats how we define the best in the world- so lets forget about are they really the best in the world, lets just try and agree that rankings are telling us the story- there are arguments that rankings are incorrect but , lets be honest world cups is what its all about- any rugby fan on planet earth would rather be no 2 or worse in the world but win the world cup over being no.1 in the world and not winning

secondly 4 years is a long time- its tough to say a team is still the best one mon th after winning a cup in some cases- let alone 4 years down the line!

if wales win this cup and get to number 1, there have alot of work to maintain there newly found tag of best in the world, just as any other team would

Glas a du wrote:

finbarthedog wrote:EMACK

Thanks. That is mad.

Yes! How dare the winning team at the WORLD CUP be considered the best in the World!

I meant that such a transformation is almost unbelievable. It was not a comment upon the merits of whether such a ranking is is accurate or not

And to think that ickle Shane knew all this a long time ago

I don't think these are particulary important at the moment, not for another year when they decide RWC pools on your ranking anyway. Lets just concentrate on the next game.

gavstar wrote:on the irb statistics there is a 'rankings explanation' click on there and all is revealed. For instance, points are doubled in the world cup to reflect the importance of the event, mmmm

Not quite, its to reflect that its the one tiome you can assume sides will be playing their full strength teams. AI's, summer tours, and this years Tri nations and Pacific Nations were a joke...as are warm up games ( hell England even beat Wales once!).
It can tend to skew the rankings a bit when you get freak results like Tonga France and Argentinas run to the semis in the last WC but things tend to even out for the sides who play a lot pretty quickly.
Dont forget theresa 3rd 4th place playoff as well, those reulsts could stop Wales going second in the rankings even if they do beat France.
Getting a top seeding isnt necc the best think anyway, it could mean pulling SA as a second pot.

But for bragging rights its a heck of turnaround for wales who not that long ago were in danger of being overhauled by Samoa in the rankings. It does also reflect a massive turnaround in both their results and play.


It is true to say that the world cup winners shouldnt automaticaly be delcared number one, we already had this discussion with regard to Greyghost and Quade Coopers dickhead of the decade trophy.
In theory France could win this cup despite losing twice and only having to beat one side ranked in the top 3 at the start of tournament. Would that make them the best side in the world anymore than England would have been if Cueto had been awarded 11 points for his non try in 2007? No.

Right now Wales deserve their ranking. Theres been a lot of dissapointing sides in this world cup and none who have really shone so far as worthy champs except the all blacks...but they will struggle to mantain that now theyre down to the B team.

While we are on the subject of staistics and lies

World cup 2011:

England played 5, won 4, lost 1
Wales played 5 won 4, lost 1
Ireland played 5, won 4, lost 1
France played 5 won 3, lost 2
Scotland played 4, won 2, lost 2
Italy played 4 won2, lost 2

Im putting England top because of their alpahbetical superiority

Just saying like

Im putting England top because of their alpahbetical superiority

I think that a fair way of doing it but I think you are stretching the point too far by poutting the a before the h in alphabetically, it just doesn't work the same

RubyGuby wrote:Im putting England top because of their alpahbetical superiority

I think that a fair way of doing it but I think you are stretching the point too far by poutting the a before the h in alphabetically, it just doesn't work the same

I'm 1/8th Welsh, English is only my 7/8ths first language.

Alphabetti Spaghetti aside I think Im right in saying that England and Wales would be level on bonus points but England go top on points scored, with Ireland 3rd.

Wrong again we scored far more points than you - Stick to the alfa bet

its funny because have a look at pts against

all 3 of us let in 34 pts.

Have a look again, the guy sais "points scored"

RubyGuby wrote:Have a look again, the guy sais "points scored"

Points scored against proper teams. Fiji werent trying.

Mystry oakie,I don`t know how people rate the goodness of a country.
NZ have since the RWCs began played 250 matches,losing 46 and drawing 4 of those.
They have won 1 RWC,beaten finalists oncemhave won the 3Ns 10 times,compared to 3 each for SA and Australia.
Been IRB number one rated side for nearly most of it`s inception,and have
won twice as many games,versus SA and Aus[50 as the two combined 12,13 respectively]
An 80% win rate since 1987,currently about 85%.
SA and Aus have won one more RWC eac h than Nz does that make them superior teams.
As to look at the last two 3Ns 2010,2011,the AB`s won 4 out 5 matches versus each side.
so you decide.

emack2 wrote:Mystry oakie,I don`t know how people rate the goodness of a country.
NZ have since the RWCs began played 250 matches,losing 46 and drawing 4 of those.
They have won 1 RWC,beaten finalists oncemhave won the 3Ns 10 times,compared to 3 each for SA and Australia.
Been IRB number one rated side for nearly most of it`s inception,and have
won twice as many games,versus SA and Aus[50 as the two combined 12,13 respectively]
An 80% win rate since 1987,currently about 85%.
SA and Aus have won one more RWC eac h than Nz does that make them superior teams.
As to look at the last two 3Ns 2010,2011,the AB`s won 4 out 5 matches versus each side.
so you decide.

Yawn

emack2 wrote:Mystry oakie,I don`t know how people rate the goodness of a country.
NZ have since the RWCs began played 250 matches,losing 46 and drawing 4 of those.
They have won 1 RWC,beaten finalists oncemhave won the 3Ns 10 times,compared to 3 each for SA and Australia.
Been IRB number one rated side for nearly most of it`s inception,and have
won twice as many games,versus SA and Aus[50 as the two combined 12,13 respectively]
An 80% win rate since 1987,currently about 85%.
SA and Aus have won one more RWC eac h than Nz does that make them superior teams.
As to look at the last two 3Ns 2010,2011,the AB`s won 4 out 5 matches versus each side.
so you decide.

Ok thanks for that. not sure why your telling me but ta i suppose

WOW no seriously WOW!
How the English change their tune,the world cup was the single most important event in the rugby calendar with every other game just being a warm up,
now they are out and Wales are still in the World Cup is a poor representation of rugby an who is a good side.

Sour grapes all round ! England just chill and watch the big boys play now like all the lower tier nations England had a place in this world cup and that reason was comedy on and off the field!
and you guys did a great job of it,you had us laughing

Come on Wales