Can you be a fan of British rugby anymore?

In part this artical was provoked by a WUM that was posted a few days ago but it did raise, what I at least thought, was an interesting question for me personally.

Being Ex Army myself, we in the armed forces always seemed to have a different view point on Britishness. We were all rightly proud of our heritages & traditions, but we also celebrated each others differences. I was proud to be English but I was also proud of being British and especially of my Welsh, Irish & Scottish comrades in arms who served along side of me. I always saw myself as British first and then English.

It's something I've repeated on many occasions, but it was also something of a mantra in the forces, that Scotland, Wales, England & Ireland are like the fingers on your hand, they can all move and work independantly of each other, but they only ever create their greatest achievements when they work together.

Of course I would always support England against Wales (for example) but if England were not playing I would always support the other home nations (including Ireland as my kids are Nordies).

My confidence in this world view point has been shaken somewhat since I came out of the Army as I am constantly surrounded by and witness to the petty bickering between the home nations. So much so that I have in recent years started to see myself as English first and British last.

But you know what... like marching to the band, remembering lost friends in foreign lands and knowing where to get a beer after the Naafi shuts... there are some things about being ex Army that you never lose. And being proud to be British is one of them.

So forgive me for saying that as an Englishman I am proud that Wales have made the semis.

And I for one will be cheering them on.

I am Welsh, and generally support the home nations teams, including England. The only time I don't support England is when I feel that they are playing unbelievably boring 10 man rugby (I know some people like it, but not me). I feel the same way about the other home nations too.

I know my family don't feel the same way, my dad is definitely ABE.

It is this type of national attitude that makes International Rugby great, but in reality, there are very few people (none Welsh) who would want wales to win the RWC

I've tried to support Scotland before but by the 2nd half Im so bored and disheartened I;ve given up

It's a matter of personal choice no? ABE is a legitimate viewpoint, but that doesn't excuse 'banter' going over the line where mutual respect is undermined.

As an Englishman i used to support the other nations against foreign teams, however trends such as the Scottish "anyone but England" t-shirts that many people were wearing etc, has forced me to care only about England.

The only time i support them is in a British Lions year...

There is nothing wrong with the ABE or Only england, I have no problem with it at all, and it adds to the fixtures!

Slightly different but on the same theme, unless we are playing one of them, I would support a SH side over a NH side, and I would support the kiwis over the boks if they were playing, as the kiwis are anzac.

I can certainly see Metal Tiger's point of supporting any British over non British sides, even though the SH is not a country.

Metal Tiger,

I'm with you on this one.

Nice post.

I don't remember saying anything about people being ABE?

I think viewpoints like this are simply reflective of some peoples narrow exposure to anything outside of their hometown and a propensity for blaming their own problems on everyone else.

Am I ABW or ABS... certainly not.

Although I could be ABNZ at a push ( only kidding TGG ) I love to watch them play as they are the benchmark everyone wants to be, but I delight in watching teams beat them. Spread the wealth I say.

Metal Tiger wrote:

Although I could be ABNZ at a push.

Will expect you to be on Sunday morning, cheers MT!!

Metal Tiger wrote:I don't remember saying anything about people being ABE?

I think viewpoints like this are simply reflective of some peoples narrow exposure to anything outside of their hometown and a propensity for blaming their own problems on everyone else.

Am I ABW or ABS... certainly not.

Although I could be ABNZ at a push. I love to watch them play as they are the benchmark everyone wants to be, but I delight in watching teams beat them. Spread the wealth I say.

I think there is nothing wrong with only supporting your home country or home town, and equally nothing wrong with chosing to support Wales on Saturday if you aint Welsh, but there is something wrong for critising people who chose to either.

I think people are entitled to their own opinions - I'm welsh, can't help it and for the most part its a blxxdy struggle being welsh. I haven't got a clue about what being British is and what Britishness is - Sorry that's just the way it is. I don't think Wales is represented on the Union Jack but I dont really mind. Being British I can only imagine is a bit like being European. When the Ryder Cup comes round I love that togetherness stuff and my fav golfers have always been Faldo, Luke and Poulter and Westwood, yet I'm still welsh. My 2nd favourite rugby team is NZ as I watched them in my first game in 1973 as a young child and see them as the Brazil of rugby. The Haka remains for me the most awesome sight in world sport. There you go no offence to anyone

I agree about the Haka, really does set the tone for a match.

RubyGuby wrote:I think people are entitled to their own opinions - I'm welsh, can't help it and for the most part its a blxxdy struggle being welsh. I haven't got a clue about what being British is and what Britishness is - Sorry that's just the way it is. I don't think Wales is represented on the Union Jack but I dont really mind. Being British I can only imagine is a bit like being European. When the Ryder Cup comes round I love that togetherness stuff and my fav golfers have always been Faldo, Luke and Poulter and Westwood, yet I'm still welsh. My 2nd favourite rugby team is NZ as I watched them in my first game in 1973 as a young child and see them as the Brazil of rugby. The Haka remains for me the most awesome sight in world sport. There you go no offence to anyone

(Apart from the All Blacks stuff )

Yes, but do they need to be so blydi precious about it?

OzT wrote:
I can certainly see Metal Tiger's point of supporting any British over non British sides, even though the SH is not a country.

Please don't mistake my pride in Wales being British as being against everyone else!

I love OZ & NZ... There was a surprising amount of Ozzies & NZers in my regiment... so I think of you guys as family too!

Beating the SH is like getting one over on your favourite cousins.

The Welsh & Scots are like brothers that you love to beat up.

Ireland is like your estranged cousin that you secretly fancy. Yes, her parents have painted the house a different colour, changed their name and don't talk to your Dad anymore. But you'd still do her!

The closest I come to supporting British rugby is supporting the Lions. I feel British in the sense that I feel at home to a certain extent when I'm in England or Scotland, surrounded by familiar landscape, customs and people.

However, I see myself as Welsh first and foremost, the official nature of the nationality that cannot be classified as anything more specific than British takes a back seat in my mind. At heart I am and will always be Welsh and will probably never consider myself British. That is not to say I feel any hostility towards the other home nations.

The most I could narrow it down to is the way one would feel about brothers and sisters. You were nourished by the same breast, raised in the same place and have always known them. You're like them but you'll never be them.

Metal Tiger - I agree.
Welsh and British, in that order for rugby and reversed for most other things.

I could never support Leicester though

yep i like this thread. and agree with most of the comments. from both sides. Its a shame that (mainly certain scots) have to support against us- that is where most of hatred comes from(there hatred) but anyway if its bread into you, its tough to form an opinion on your own

I love the British and Irish teams. Really hate when politics or history from the dark ages has to get involved with throwing a ball around. Having said that, I will defend my team if I have to, as difficult as it is to disagree with most of the posts on here at the moment! My dad is anyone but Wales for some reason, but owns two Scotland shirts and generally supports home nations bar Wales. Glad I didn't take after him in that respect!

I don't really care whether or not Wales and Scotland reciprocate the love, in fact I know a lot of them don't. I actually enjoyed being the minority England fan in Cardiff for 4 years, might have to go back for the 6 nations because being in the majority is boring.

I don't really care whether Wales and Scotland reciprocate the love,

That is a funny quote mate, you are a bit younger than some of us and maybe your dad remembers the 70's - Your V2 name is also amusing

Nah, not a fan of see through skin, freckles, Ginger hair and green eyes (not all on the same person anyway)

Can somebody please explain what ABW, ABS and ABNZ stand for im very confused
btw Metal tiger with a statement like this 'Ireland is like your estranged cousin that you secretly fancy' are you a scrubs fan? its just JD said that elliot was like that cousin you secretly have feelings for' hmmmmm.
just a thought :P

LuvSports, Anybody But .....

LuvSports! wrote:Can somebody please explain what ABW, ABS and ABNZ stand for im very confused
btw Metal tiger with a statement like this 'Ireland is like your estranged cousin that you secretly fancy' are you a scrubs fan? its just JD said that elliot was like that cousin you secretly have feelings for' hmmmmm.
just a thought :P

It's just a twist on the popular scottish saying of "Anyone But England" or ABE when it comes to sport. ABW...Anyone But Wales or ABS...Scotland etc.

Absolutley loved Scrubs seasons 1 to 5... when I was going through some very dark times in my life I could slap Scrubs on the DVD, forget about the world for an hour or two and laugh. Seasons 6 onwards all started to get a bit samey and I kind of lost interest.

haha yessss MT that is awesome its my fav american comedy show with south park and family guy! I am obsessed with scrubs just comedy genius. For me seasons 4 and 5 were the best season 6 was good but got a bit too serious season 7 was still good but the end of the great show as season 8 and the horror of interns in 9 was an insult but the season finale of season 8 was a great way to go after a bad season
sorry off topic but i luv dat show good post btw and thanks for da debriefing

I support Wales and the Lions and I will only hope other teams win or lose if the result of that match is beneficial to Wales.
One thing I will not do is openly show support to another nation more often than not it's done on here just to wum.

offload wrote:Metal Tiger - I agree.
Welsh and British, in that order for rugby and reversed for most other things.

I could never support Leicester though

I would expect nothing else from a Glaaaaaaaawster boy!

Tiger,

Ex Forces here to and for me its Welsh then British but I will support other Celts against England but as for last weekend I just could not bring myself to support france so it was England.

I personally don't back any home nation after Wales, Wales all the way.
I don't back any Tri Nation boys either but i do like the way NewZealand play.

wales aren't good enough to win the world cup! come on the all blacks!

mystiroakey wrote:yep i like this thread. and agree with most of the comments. from both sides. Its a shame that (mainly certain scots) have to support against us- that is where most of hatred comes from(there hatred) but anyway if its bread into you, its tough to form an opinion on your own

I don't hate England or English people and to be honest I know noone who does. I know for certain there are still a few numpties kicking about in Scotland who are bitter and resentful of England and English people but that's only because they take movies like Braveheart at face value.

My problem with the English winning (at any sport) is my family and to an extent the media. I have quite a large Welsh and English contingent in my family and when Wales win my Welsh Relatives (my dad included) are pretty humble about it. When England win, my uncle, cousins etc bombard my facebook and mobile phone with gloating comments and singing songs about bloody charriots! As for the English media, the look on Inverdull and Guscotts face's is priceless. Add Dayglow, Barnes and Steve Ryder to that list and it is amusing when England don’t win. That’s not to say other Pundits are not biased, Andy Nichol is a buffoon and I’ll always remember Jiffy shouting “come on” when Wales stole victory from us in the 2010 6N.

Never the less, when the Lions play I cheer as loudly for any of the other home nations as I would for Scotland. Scotland will always be my number 1 team and Wales my 2nd team.

However don’t just think Scottish or any other supporters wanting England to lose is based on ignorant xenophobia. If you got bombarded with the messages I do, you would understand!

in rugby its welsh-celtic-british-NH, beyond that its the underdog i root for

everything else is welsh-british

I'll support the home nations as long as the result doesnt affect Wales, so for example in the hypothetical six nations scenario, if the result of Italy beating England means that Wales will win the championship, I will be supporting Italy.

IronMike wrote:I'll support the home nations as long as the result doesnt affect Wales, so for example in the hypothetical six nations scenario, if the result of Italy beating England means that Wales will win the championship, I will be supporting Italy.

i think thats the difference isnt it- but i cant believe that you would support england over italy even if it was the first game- not neccesarily because you are ABE. but because italy(as they stand) taking points of the better teams will allways work in wales or another top nations favour

Kiwireddevil wrote:I'm locking this thread while I clean up the personal abuse.

Sorry Kiwi...

I try not to feed the trolls but I bit good an proper there.

MT

Thought I would change my first message :0)

I will be proudly supporting Wales, as an Englishman, this weekend. I love the Welsh and Irish people, nicest Ive been lucky enough to meet

I will be supporting Wales but will also be hoping they are tested thoroughly but still win through. If they are beaten tomorrow but play well they will still have performed well enough to deserve the plaudits of a Welsh nation finding renewed pride in their team.

Good luck lads.

I feel sorry for English fans as they are from the only country that (from what I've seen) everyone from any other country in the world wants to see lose. No matter who they play or what circumstances. It can't feel nice. (And yes I am aware of why this is) All the English fans that i have met in Ireland have been great too. So I feel vaguely sympathetic towards the English rugby team. If they play pretty rugby I may cheer them on.

Everyone I know in Ireland wants the Welsh to win. Hope ye do.

I don't buy this NH v SH stuff. It's completely ridiculous. Do I have to support/not support a team now because it's from another hemisphere? WTF? Hemisphere? If Russia play Samoa I have to support Russia? Or the French against NZ? Why the hell should I?

Ireland in everything. In the six nations anyone else who can get a result to favour Ireland in the table. Have a soft spot for Scotland.

In the RWC Ireland until they go out, then any of the home nations left, after that I just enjoy the rugby.

I think the Celtic nations don't have a problem with English rugby fans as such, it's more a perception thing, mainly driven by the Englsh (London) media, who concentrate on England and build them up into world beaters, then simoultaneously manage to undermine them.

Closely followed by the adoption of other national teams as British when they win and back to being Welsh, Scottish or Irish when they lose (c.f Andy Murray); Cameron flying the Welsh flag over Downing Street just smacks of opportunisim and bandwaggoning not support.

We stand together alone.......

I just support Ireland and then whoever else takes my fancy really. I'll support Scotland, Argentina, Samoa and Fiji against most of the other established sides.

I think Argentina are my second team but I don't really care too much. With all of the above out of the running I'll be supporting New Zealand against Australia and (hopefully) in the Final. But if the Aussies get through I'll be supporting France or Wales.

It's not a big deal really, rugby, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to just choose to support who I want outside my national team. I don't feel any special affinity to any of the other home unions as such, anymore than I do the 3N sides or other sides in world rugby.

Went to school in England when I was 9 years old.Much merriment with"Taffy was a Welshman,Taffy was a thief,Taffy stole a leg of lamb,he also stole some beef".Good days!Helped set my mindset on my English chums.Good natured banter,you cannot beat it.
On a more somber note,I was in Brum on the night of the pub bombings so I aint too crash hot on supporting the Irish.

I like Wales and Scotland though I'm starting to soften up to the Irish, but I think it's only temporary, I'm sure that will change come the next 6 Nations.

I like England at the moment as well, simply because of my admiration of Martin Johnson. Great man, who deserves better.