Leinster going forward HEC + Rabocop

Hello fellow people lucky enough to be born in the greatest rugby province ever formed

That will annoy any outsiders looking in.

right so the world cup is over and we have our returning 14 back in the mix after some rest

Cullen
mcfadden
boss
jennings

need to play some rugby asap and i'm sure will not want to much rest before getting back to business

redden and cronin will not need too much of a rest either.

In my view we need to stagger the lads back and have close to a full team for the munster game in the aviva. What i would like to see when we have the lads back is for us to go undefeated to christmas, big ask i know, but we are european champs and should start acting like it.

Regarding the players that have been playing the last few weeks, i think it is hard to judge alot of them over the last few weeks as it was basically a new team. but i would like to see madigan and willis given more chances

What do you guys think going forward. Should we start making changes to our team
doing you think we should b replacing darcy or should the young players have to take it off them

I think McFadden will come back before Darcy and will take 12 off Fitz if he can get a few good performances in he may end up holding onto the 12 jersey for the season. His first few games back in blue will be vital for his season I think.

Will be good having Leo back and our backrow.

Will be interesting to see where Kearney fits in in the back 3. Horgan should be back to and Fitz will move back to wing too, Conway is nearly ready too I think

Under the irish Player management, none of the Irish players can even train for the next 2 weeks, meaing that only a few will play the next game as they will have only a day of training since returning. They will prob play in the game after next

the player management should take into account the lack of game time some players got out there.

Yeah mcfadden and fitz could be have a showdown for that 12 jersey.

having cullen back is a massive boost for the whole team.
the only thing is who will partner him come hec and what will be the backrow

I say the backrow will be the good old SOB-Jenno-Heaslip combo.

I'd really like us to try McL more at lock and if he or Skyes can partner Cullen that would be good.

I'd prefer McF at 12 he is much more physical and has a good kicking game

The players like Heaslip, SOB, BOD, Darcy, Healy, Ross and to an extent Sexton need careful handling of minutes for the rest of the season which I'd hope would be HCup and final weeks of Pro12. A combination of the above should play in the remaining games.

I see Kearney getting the 15 jersey and holding on to it. I see Nacewa taking up Horgan's position. I believe that Fitz will go back to the wing. McFadden and O'Malley will get plenty of games at centre and McF could very well take over from Darcy at inside centre before the end of the season. Only injury to BOD or a serious period of rest will have O'Malley in the big games.

Cullen and Sykes are lined up for the main HC games. Toner and McL will fight out for the bench spot with Toner winning as the bench will already have Ryan/Ruddock for backrow cover.

Front row will get a lot of rotation but Healy-Strauss-Ross will be in place for all major games if fit.

No scrum half impressed for Leinster while Best/Reddan were away. Madigan has seen off those around him (with an injury for Berquist admittedly) and is reserve O/H.

No idea about how Schmidt will go in the back row, if everyone is fit there are a lot of people to keep happy/motivated/interested/committed such as Heaslip-SOB-Jennings-Ryan-McLaughlin-Ruddock-Murphy. I'd rank them as written but I reckon Schmidt has Ruddock further up the list.

Why should Kearney get the jersey off Nacewa? Nacewa has been outstanding.

I think Nacewa can be just as effective at wing as he is at fullback. Just my view. I also would prefer Kearney to be at fullback with a view to the Irish setup. Kearney isn't that bad an option.

Speaking of the backrow and Murphy, I would love to see Leinster develop him as an openside. He is young yet shown great maturity in the U20 world cup at number 8, the switch to openside however I think would benefit both him and Leisnter/Ireland greatly.

I still think ryan is the man to be made into a full time openside, he should be jennings understudy

i agree re kearney at full back isa could do his thing from the wing, or we could play him 12 (just a thought)

I think Isa is best utilised at 15 as it affords him the most space to run. He is better at 15 than anywhere else realistically.

If Kearney can get some good performaces in consitently, the coaches may not want to use Isa anymore as they could have an all IQ backline. Granted we'd be losing on of our best players and IMO our best 15.

Also, agree that Dom Ryan should be tailored into a 7

From what I've seen, with Ryan at 7 there still is the same weakness at the breakdown. Ryan looks like a monstrous tackler and the potential to be a fantastic blindside to me.. but at 7 I don't think he quite has it.

Which brings me to my suggestion of developing Murphy while he is still very young. Warburton was an 8 for the U20s similar to Murphy and was tailored into a 7. Just a thought.

Nacewa is the best fullback we have. But Kearney is good too and it would be better for Ireland if he had the 15 jersey. Nacewa is a good winger. He was on the wing with Kearney at 15 when we played Saracens in Wembley and scored the try of the season in my view. Look it up on youtube. Both Kearney and Nacewa were involved.

I think Ryan will be great 7 and should be fast tracked into the Irish setup as well as Leinster. Conway is another one I'd like to see getting more game time. I've seen him in a lot of under age Ireland games. Obviously that's a lower level but he was a standout talent in all the underage games I've seen, even when Ireland lost. The ssoner he builds up experience the better because I think he has the potential to be very good.

Whatever happens, Isa must play. Either on the wing or at FB. The man is essential. I also want to start to see BOD and Dorce slowly replaced over this and next season. They have have lost so much pace. Think Mcfadden should move in for Darcy 1st. Play alongside BOD for a while. Then move O Malley in for BOD in the lesser PRO12 games. That has to start this season.

Looks like Madigan is starting to benefit from the unfortunate Berquist's injury. He's starting to run games with more confidence and is a great place-kicker. It has been proven that Sexton needs a constant challenge, to get the best out of him, so here's hoping that turns into a real battle. Like the Reddan & Boss situation - which works like a dream.

As for the backrow - something has to give there. Someone has to go. And/or be converted to lock. Mclaughlin? And I think Ruddock may be the one to go.I just dont see it in him. Schmidt seems to and makes him Captain into the bargain. He may just have the edge on me there... Knowledge-wise loike.

I totally agree on Dom Ryan being Jenno's understudy. SOB is not and never will be - a 7. Ireland know that to their cost. The time for Jenno to start tutoring Ryan - is now.

Conway is a better all-round player than Carr imo. Plays FB too. So I don't know what will happen when he gets back. Our Shaggy has another year and a Heino left in him yet. Maybe Carr will have to fight it out and bide his time a bit longer. I don't see Fitz as a 12. Hes best off on the wing. Looks happiest there. Maybe that's a discussion in itself. The whole future centre-pairing gig.

Need to see more of Hagan, Cronin & McGrath. Need to keep pressure on / have backup for - Healy, Struass & Ross.

Will Devin (Russ Abbot) Toner ever really step it up? Guy always seems to look stoned to me. But I see hints of him waking up in the loose. Great weapon in the lineout. We'll see.

But, overall - it's bloody healthy anyway.

And it great to talk about Leinster rather than Ireland for a change.

Believe in Blue.

Gibbo what do you see as Leinsters HEC team and their Rabo team?

HC Team:

15. Kearney
14. Shaggy/Fitzy
13. BOD
12. Mcfadden/Darcy
11. Nacewa
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Sykes
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

Pro12 (lesser games) team changes:
Conway for Kearney
O Malley for BOD
Madigan for Sexton
Boss for Reddan
Hagan for Ross
Cronin for Strauss
McGrath for Healy
Toner for Sykes
Mclaughlin for SOB
Ryan for Jennings
Auva'a/Ruddock for Heaslip

Needs more work, but that's off the top of my head.

P.S. Throw young Macken into the pot as well. Big hopes for him.

Yea Macken could be a nice big 13.

As I see it your looking at:

HEC Team: Healy, Strauss, Ross, Sykes, Toner, O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Nacewa, Darcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, R.Kearney

Pro12 Team: Van der Merwe, Cronin, Hagan, Toner, Browne, McLaughlin, Ryan, Ruddock, Boss, Madigan, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Macken, Carr, D.Kearney

Conway is a talent but Dave Kearney impressing me more at the minute.

I'm surprised Kearney is slotting straight into 15 in both of your teams. Nacewa was the best full back in Europe last year and top 3 in the world. Why can't Kearney play wing?

One is Rob, one is Dave.
Ah either or really with 11/15. They will interchange.

Stag, I'm not a dope I know there are two Kearneys. I just think Rob will have to earn his place back. Nacewa showed an ability to make plays out of nothing and his kicking was decent. Rob didn't show any of that for Ireland. He was solid for Ireland. Isa was Íosa(Jesus) for Leinster last year in many games.

Oh I thought you just didn't see the initials. Rob will need to earn his place but so too will Nacewa. At the start of a season nobody should have a nailed on place.

Isa is more of a threat running from deep in my view. I think Kearney could be more useful on the wing.

Swap em about so.

red_stag wrote:Yea Macken could be a nice big 13.

As I see it your looking at:

HEC Team: Healy, Strauss, Ross, Sykes, Toner, O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Nacewa, Darcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, R.Kearney

Pro12 Team: Van der Merwe, Cronin, Hagan, Toner, Browne, McLaughlin, Ryan, Ruddock, Boss, Madigan, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Macken, Carr, D.Kearney

Conway is a talent but Dave Kearney impressing me more at the minute.

See? It was a prototype post. Dave Kearney is growing nicely from a dull start.

How de feic could I forget VD Merwe? See, I think Irish before anything else.

Also want Darcy replaced by Mcfadden. Its time.
And why are you dropping our Captain. MY Captain from the HC team? Error, does not compute.

Truth is - I want an all Irish Qualified XV, to win the HC in my lifetime. Its coming. I would die happy.

Thomond wrote:Stag, I'm not a dope I know there are two Kearneys. I just think Rob will have to earn his place back. Nacewa showed an ability to make plays out of nothing and his kicking was decent. Rob didn't show any of that for Ireland. He was solid for Ireland. Isa was Íosa(Jesus) for Leinster last year in many games.

The man has a very strong point. Isa IS best at FB. He's better than Kearney. But this bloody Irish team feics everything up. I hope Joe goes his own way on that score actually.

Besides, that other Leinster boy - Jones, will make the Irish 15 shirt his own... Its only a matter of time. Really rate that lad - at all levels.

UUUGGGGHHH stupid stag. Obv I meant Cullen ahead of Toner. Copy and paste let me down!!

I think it's kind of mad that the likes of Tom Court, Paddy Wallace, Shane Jennings, Fergus McFadden etc. can't train for two weeks. Okay they had a very intense pre-season and they were away from their families but it should take into account some guys need gametime after sitting out for a good few weeks.

If Ryan made a breakthrough at 7 for both Leinster and Ireland say by this six nations, who would you guys pick at 6? Ferris or O'Brien? Tricky one for me..

I tend to agree with that. It should not be a one size fits all. They should look at players on an individual basis. Then make individual decisions - in conjunction with the Provinces.

And sack Kidney. Who failed his remit. SF was the set goal. What are they going to do about it?

Nowt.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If Ryan made a breakthrough at 7 for both Leinster and Ireland say by this six nations, who would you guys pick at 6? Ferris or O'Brien? Tricky one for me..

In that imaginary situation, Id keep 1F and SOB and drop Heaslip.

Has to be SOB at 6. He's the future. Move 1F to 8. Or 5.

I probably prefer SOB for the time being for sure, and agree his best position is 6. I think 8 will belong to Peter O'Mahoney soon enough. As for 7 it will be up in the air for a while I think.

My HCup team

Healy-Strauss-Ross
Cullen-Skyes
SOB-Heaslip-Jenno
Reddan-Sexton
McF-BOD
R.Kearney-Nacewa-Horgan

Cronin-Hagan-VDM-McLaughlin-Ryan-Boss-Madigan-Fitzgerald

Pro 12 team

VDM-Strauss-Hagan
Cullen/Skyes-Toner/McL
Ruddock-Avuva-Ryan
Boss-Madigan
McF-O'Malley
Carr-R.Kearney-Fitz

Cronin-McGrath-Ross-Toner/McL-SOB-Reddan-Sexton-Nacewa

I agree that Nacewa should hold on to the 15 jersey for Leinster, (this is me not thinking about what is best for Ireland but what is best for Leinster) I think Nacewa creates breaks and tries that Kearney probably can't. Nacewa links better as a back 3 than Kearney and spots gaps better.

If kearney becomes a better counterattacker however that would make my day.

Time for Darcy to move on

Want to see McL moved towards lock more often

Want Madigan to keep getting more game time.

Ryan to be groomed into a 7.

Hagan and Cronin to be given game time.

Re. Dom Ryan i think hes the most promising back-row forward coming through at leinster and i would have said Ireland up to O'Mahoneys emergence. Would have liked to see him played against Scotland in the warm up ahead of Ronan (not saying he deserves an Ireland call up but just didn't understand playing ronan ahead of someone who might have a big irish career)

Dont understand the hype over ruddock tbh apart from his size and leadership skills not sure if hell make it to the top level.

Completely agree Golden re: the Scottish game. I didn't understand that at all.

I think McL has really faded out of international contention since Ryan got the backrow lock spot. There are many better 6's than McL and many better locks too

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Completely agree Golden re: the Scottish game. I didn't understand that at all.

I think McL has really faded out of international contention since Ryan got the backrow lock spot. There are many better 6's than McL and many better locks too

Peter O'Mahony was injured a fair bit last season I think (got injured for Cork Con I think in Nov./Dec). He only played one or two Magners games after that and as far as I can remember, he could only make the bench for the AIL Final for Con against Belvedere. By the way, he started the AIL Semi Final on the Wing!

Personally think O'Mahony was better off getting gametime for Munster than holding tackle bags for the internationals.

As for Ruddock - think the hype was more to do with him getting capped on the tour downunder at such a young age. It was probably more down to the fact that he was last man standing who was match fit. Capping him then probably settled any questions on his international future and of course being his father's son there would be a bit of talk about him.

It will be interesting to see if he stays with Leinster - he might be better off moving up to Ulster.

I've seen Ruddock have some very good games though, I remember a match where both him and O'Brien ran riot against Ulster. He was playing 6 then, and unfortunately for him I think that is his best position, and nearly every other backrowers best position in Ireland it seems. He would be a fair bit down the pecking order at 6.

O'Mahoney's emergence this season has been fantastic, but I hope he is not tailored into a 6 to accommodate Coughlan/Leamy. He should be playing 8, I genuinely believe that is his best position after seeing him play last weekend.

When people ask for Ryan to be tailored into a 7, is it because he is the only option? Why not O'Brien since he is the one playing 7 right now? Just curious, I personally prefer O'Brien at 6 but I'm wondering why everyone wants Ryan, who to me looks like he could make a great blindside in the future, to be an openside.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Completely agree Golden re: the Scottish game. I didn't understand that at all.

I think McL has really faded out of international contention since Ryan got the backrow lock spot. There are many better 6's than McL and many better locks too

Peter O'Mahony was injured a fair bit last season I think (got injured for Cork Con I think in Nov./Dec). He only played one or two Magners games after that and as far as I can remember, he could only make the bench for the AIL Final for Con against Belvedere. By the way, he started the AIL Semi Final on the Wing!

Personally think O'Mahony was better off getting gametime for Munster than holding tackle bags for the internationals.

As for Ruddock - think the hype was more to do with him getting capped on the tour downunder at such a young age. It was probably more down to the fact that he was last man standing who was match fit. Capping him then probably settled any questions on his international future and of course being his father's son there would be a bit of talk about him.

It will be interesting to see if he stays with Leinster - he might be better off moving up to Ulster.

Totally agree Sin. Better for him and for Ireland. If he doesn't challenge and try to oust a recently misfiring Heaslip, that is. Just don't want him feicin off to Wales, England or France. Rather he was kept in the Family, to see how he develops. The coaches (Kidney & Schmidt) seem to believe in him more than some of us do. He's young yet so, I hope he starts to show it this season. He only has a 1 year contract with the IRFU. I think that's a double-edged bet.


Must keep an eye out for O' Mahoney.

As for SOB as a 7? His natural instinct is to run with the ball and burst through the gain-line. When he plays at 7 - that is negated massively. Ryan is a beast and a fierce tackler. I think his natural instinct is to throw bodies about at the breakdown and secure the ball. He needs tutoring by Jenno in the Dark Arts. And I believe - given that, he will make a Warburton type 7. We need an out-and-out groundhog. That much has been proven at the RWC. The day of the groundhog was deemed a thing of the past by most Irish on here, pre RWC. It cost us. It is a pre-req for any top team now in the modern game.

Well I think Ulster would be happy to have Ruddock! He does have talent, just feel others are overtaking him right now.

I agree about SOB gibson, it's just looking at Ireland and the backrow he may be the 7 for a while yet until we produce one. Ryan proves to be a fierce tackler and defender, but more in the mould of Ferris? I don't think he is a fetcher or groundhog. The breakdown was a weakness with McLaughlin, Ryan and Ruddock starting. We will have to see how he develops.

Otherwise I suggest going younger, and developing Jordi Murphy as a 7.

Rory,
You seem to know a fair bit about Jordi. Have to be honest and say I have not seen him play yet. Ryan would make a great 6 or 8 also. But we could sell 6's to the Kiwis. Ruddock & McLaughlin are there as well. Sooo. Key career-decisions have to be made... and soon.

Be interesting to see what comes about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bTdkWDE978&feature=player_detailpage


Saw yerself with Taste in the 70's. Incredible.

He was playing number 8 for Ireland's U20s and looked pretty good, but the U20s in general under performed. He is fairly large, a good ball carrier and has a high work rate, but that is how I remember seeing Warburton 4 years ago for the U20s world cup at ravenhill, he was the 8 for Wales.

I think he was told he was too small for an 8, but could make a great 7 in the future and that was the turning point for him. And look where he is now! I just think if we target the players when they are young we can produce plenty of good 7s for the future. Especially when every young backrower will want to be the next O'Brien with flashy runs. Ireland don't need that, we have that, we need a master of the dark arts at that breakdown area!

EDIT: Oh and yes you are one lucky fellow! Ever was there such a mighty guitarist from these parts

Man, you are wise way beyond yer years. Respect.

Thats where the SH countries will always have the edge on us. They make these decisions earlier and nurture it. Why cant the NH countries see that?

England have more resources than all 3 put together and are still stuck in the Stone-Age.

Its bad enough dealing with the Irish "Ah well, we'll be grand on the day and give it a lash" - attitude. But, if if I was an English rugby supporter, I'd be going ballistic right now.

Wrong thread. Realistic sentiments.

I phhokin love Rory. Been to the Ballyshannon bash last 3 years running. Took a load of Cloggie Rory fans with me and have seen him feic loads of times in the past. Had a with him once. Deep Joy. Its like BOD... only with a geetaar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJCUKh-IToo&feature=player_detailpage

Rory's a Cork man. He may have been born up North but he is a Cork man at heart.

Nah T. He was an Irishman at heart. At a really dangerous time for musicians, when no one else would play in Belfast... Rory did. Felt he owed it to his soul and his people - to do so.

That's what will always separate him from the R&B peasants. And small-minded, pseudo - Rawk Stars in Lear jets. He traveled in a van - with crate-loads of bottled-Guinness

Jimmy Hendrix said as much. Rory was his hero. I rest me R&B case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C38aV15IDs&feature=player_detailpage

But, he was a krap openside-flanker. In fairness...

When I said from round these parts I meant Ireland.. He is from good old Donegal! The likes of U2 may be what most people call the best musicians from Ireland, but they just haven't heard of Rory. And yes, Hendrix considered him the best guitarist at that time. One of the greatest. If only we produced such outstanding opensides

Forget about U2 Rory Gallagher was the greatest

Not sure about yer man Jordi Murphy though.

In that vein. I'd love to see Bono tackled by 1F. Id pay big for that. Wot a pretentious dick.


Cant wait for de Heino to kick-off lads. Phhok de secondary RWC.

Leinstuur. Leinstuur. Leinstuur.

roddersm wrote:Forget about U2 Rory Gallagher was the greatest

Not sure about yer man Jordi Murphy though.

What are ya unsure about Rodders? Did ya get to see him play over the U20 world cup?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
What are ya unsure about Rodders? Did ya get to see him play over the U20 world cup?

Yeah Rory I wasn't impressed with his performances there. Mind you I'd need to get another look at him as all our forwards were mangled in that competition. He seemed to have a good workrate but lacked the physicality to compete at that level.

We rarely seem to have the physicality at that level, but as player mature we do catch up.
There was a youngfella called Gilsenan who played for Clongowes in the senior cup this year, he’s been signed to the academy as far as I know and he got rave reviews. AFAIK he’s an traditional openside.

Interesting.. will have to watch out for him.

I think I am going to try and catch the U20 matches again, and see who impresses (Conway, Gilroy, Marshall and a few others were great). If I can remember the tight five were not good enough and we were weak compared to other nations, but as Mickado says we seem to mature past that.

EDIT: Oh and would anyone know anywhere I could catch up on the U20s matches? Just found the entire match for Italy against Ireland on youtube.