Leinster going forward HEC + Rabocop

First topic message reminder :

Hello fellow people lucky enough to be born in the greatest rugby province ever formed

That will annoy any outsiders looking in.

right so the world cup is over and we have our returning 14 back in the mix after some rest

Cullen
mcfadden
boss
jennings

need to play some rugby asap and i'm sure will not want to much rest before getting back to business

redden and cronin will not need too much of a rest either.

In my view we need to stagger the lads back and have close to a full team for the munster game in the aviva. What i would like to see when we have the lads back is for us to go undefeated to christmas, big ask i know, but we are european champs and should start acting like it.

Regarding the players that have been playing the last few weeks, i think it is hard to judge alot of them over the last few weeks as it was basically a new team. but i would like to see madigan and willis given more chances

What do you guys think going forward. Should we start making changes to our team
doing you think we should b replacing darcy or should the young players have to take it off them

Not 100% sure Rory but you could try a site called across the tasman (can’t remember if it’s .com or .au – just google it). there are lads on there that record pretty much every game that’s on tv and put up torrents for them. It would be a long shot that the files are still there but it’s worth a bash. You’ll have to register but it’s just a discussion forum like this though, you don’t have to pay. Let me know how you get on.

i have missed a bit over the weekend

rory gallagher = god
bono = all that is wrong with the world

with regards iosa at 15 i would like to think that joe could work him into the plays if he was on the wing aswell.

Regarding the u20, i always find its hard to judge players on this tournament, the sheer size difference in some of the players can be misleading in how good or bad a player will be particularly the forwards

Oh yeah, just to weigh in here, Rory is the man. Unbelievable guitar player.
I think it was Slash (probably wrong on that) who was asked in an interview what it was like to be the best guitar player in the world, he said why don’t you ask Rory Gallagher.

Thanks Mickado, will give that a go!

Also, Nacewa should stay at 15 imo. Kearney can play wing, but Nacewa has been outstanding lately and shouldn't be shifted unless he is outplayed (VERY unlikely).

Iosa was flogged all of last season, he must have played 20 games straight. It’s absolutely no harm to have Kearney playing most of the ML games at fullback and having Nacewa fresh for the HC, and it gives Kearney a great opportunity to win the jersey back.

For the record, as it stands with all players fit here would be my ML and HC teams.

ML:

VDM – Strauss – Hagan
Sykes – Toner
McLaughlin – Ruddock – Ryan
Boss – Madigan
Carr –McFadden – O’Malley/Macken – Conway
Kearney

Cronin – Healy – Ross – Cullen –O’Brien – Reddan – Sexton – Fitzgerald

HC

Healy – Strauss – Ross
Sykes – Cullen
O’Brien – Heaslip – Jennings
Reddan – Sexton
Kearney – Darcy – O’Driscoll – Horgan
Nacewa

Cronin – VDM – Hagan – Toner – McLaughlin – Boss – Madigan – Fitzgerald

McFadden needs to be phased into the 12 shirt for the HC team but should replace Darcy by the end of the season.

Yeah actually after the WC we should not have to play a player cause he is in the irish side, we should aim to have 15 irish players in the future, but we have one of the best full backs in the world in our team and should get to use him. So kearney can try for the wing or else show us what made him a lion

D24, that’s a good point. I think we need to reduce our dependency on foreign players, which we are doing in most positions but there’s always room for a world class player, be they Irish or not. For example, we used to need players like Will Green, Juan Gomez and Stephen Knoop in the front row, we’re now in a position where we’ve 5 props and 4 of them are Irish, VDM is a good squad player but we should be looking to get McGrath up to that standard or to come up with a new Irish prop who is up to it. Sykes is yet to prove himself but it’s still early days, but if it does become obvious that he’s no more than adequate then we need to get an Irish lock in there to be at least as good.

We’re far from weak in the back 3, but Iosa is a legend, and there’s always room for legends in the Leinster backline

What age is Jennings and is he expected to play for a good bit more seasons?

I’m pretty sure Jennings is 28/29.

I would expect him to be around for a few season yet. Whatever about his ability at international level, he’s crucial to the way Leinster play. When he came on in the HC final we were a different team, lots of factors contributed to that, but he was one of them. I tell ya, the Lions will be some team with Warburton and O’Brien in the same backrow.

He is a great player for Leinster, he made such a difference in the HC final, and he works fantastically well with O'Brien. I really wish he could do it on the international stage.. but have these two played together yet internationally?

I just hope someone joins him and Dom Ryan at the hip in training so Ryan can pick up all those skills and traits Jenno has.

I think all of our HCup teams will have time in the Pro 12 too, no one has said but I think everyone is thinking it jsut wanted to be sure.

Mickado wrote:Oh yeah, just to weigh in here, Rory is the man. Unbelievable guitar player.
I think it was Slash (probably wrong on that) who was asked in an interview what it was like to be the best guitar player in the world, he said why don’t you ask Rory Gallagher.

Actually it was Jimi Hendrix! Watched an amazing live performance of Shadowplay on youtube yesterday. Unbelievable . I think yer man Hendrix was right.

I thought Jennings was 31?

Just while you are there Rodders, would you want Ruddock to go to Ulster and would you want him at 8 or move 1F to 8?

Well Pete for me Ferris is the best 6 around and unless we sign Jerome Kaino I wouldn't play Ferris anywhere else.

I'd be delighted if Ulster signed Ruddock, even though I've rarely see him play well.

For me I'd see Ruddock playing primarily at 8 and covering 6 as Ferris would be unlikely to play too many games.

Ferris had such an amazing RWC that everyone seems to have forgotten about his knee. Ruddock would be a great long term repacement.

Shadowplay is like Sultans of Swing for the purists. They're quite similar but clearly Rory's take on things are superior

Oh and Jennings went 30 in July, still plenty of dog left in him. I can't remember him playing at international level with O'Brien, he played against the USA but O'Brien was injured.

I'd want Ruddock at 6 and Ferris to play 8 probably.. for a couple of reasons. Both are probably better at 6 but Ferris could do a better job than Ruddock at 8 imo. Rodders, who would you pick between O'Brien and Ferris at 6 if it comes to that?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rodders, who would you pick between O'Brien and Ferris at 6 if it comes to that?

Both. I can't imagine an Ireland team without either in the starting lineup in the forseeable future. Along with O'Connell they are our best players.

Ferris for me is a 6 and should start there. O'Brien at 7 or 8 for me. The Wales game doesn't change for me the belief that they are a fantastic combination.

i was just thinking nevermind an all irish team what would be our best all leinster team .

also with the way way SOB and 1F have been playing heislip might need to reinvent himself into a 7 if he wants to stick around

I agree with D24 on the Heaslip point, I think he was doing that during the RWC but he just didn't have enough time to adapt. He wasn't carrying as often and that's because he was in rucks. I think he did well but he was less prominent.

Really hope Carr can excel with leinster I'd like an absolute speedster in the squad and possibly the Irish mix too.

Where do people think Leinster's weakness is?

An all Leinster team would be strong apart from hooker and scrum half.

How do the French manage with no distinct openside/blindside?

Harinordoquy plays at 8 or 7, and he’s not the typical ground hog. Could Heaslip become that type of player?

Dusatoir is basically a 7 though.

Ps: Rodders we'll give you Ruddock if you give us TuohY! Cheers buddy!

roddersm wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rodders, who would you pick between O'Brien and Ferris at 6 if it comes to that?

Both. I can't imagine an Ireland team without either in the starting lineup in the forseeable future. Along with O'Connell they are our best players.

Ferris for me is a 6 and should start there. O'Brien at 7 or 8 for me. The Wales game doesn't change for me the belief that they are a fantastic combination.

With Peter O'Mahoney knocking on the international door maybe we will see for the next few years:

6) Ferris
7) O'Brien
8) O'Mahoney

I still would like a 7 to come through soon though, and if one does we should shift O'Brien to the blindside.

Ah he is and he isn't. He's a great link man, but he can also put in 800 tackles around the fringes when he needs to. Plus he doesn't play openside, he plays on the left hand side of the scrum wherever it is.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Ps: Rodders we'll give you Ruddock if you give us TuohY! Cheers buddy!

Feck off!

Would one Berquist minus a knee cap sweeten the deal!?

Yeah Mick it is a bit of a grey area, but realistically if Dusatoir suddenly decided to play for Ireland I'd put him at 7 move SOB to 8 and leave 1F at 6.

He is a good link man and on top of that he can really bury himself in rucks. And yes his tackling is outrageous!

Everyone seems to have come to the conclusion that the lack of a fetcher cost us the quarter final game. But we had more possession and territory than Wales. So getting our hands on the ball wasn't the main problem. The reason we lost was because Wales scored 22 points with the possession they had, and we only scored 10 with the possession we had. Of course the whole pack could have been better. But I really think the predictability and lack of penetration in our back line was the reason we lost. We had enough of the ball to win if we were better from 9 to 15. And we could have been because we've seen Leinster show superb attacking play all season. Kidney/Gaffney just couldn't extract the same quality from the same players when they were wearing green.

That's what I think anyway. Or maybe I've just had To Much Alcohol.

Feckless, I agree there. Our midfield were missing the “Brute force and ignorance” of the Welsh.

And like a Halfpenny you, turn up again….

Do Leinster lack power in boiler room with Nathan Hines and Stan Wright departing? Leo Cullen turns 34 years old in January and Sykes is shorter and lighter than Hines was.

I think Leinster do lack that power Stag, that is the weakness I think we have. It is one of the reasons I want to see McL converted to lock. Toner does seem to have slightly improved also in the last month.

The loss of Stan isn't such a bad thing because Healy and Strauss do so much work in the loose and Ross is a much better scrummaging force than Stan.

I think Hines is the man we will miss most, and it annoys me because he left so an Irish player could play there instead.....Skyes.....?

One thing is for sure, we will miss Hines as an enforcer. He was always in there, either causing it or sorting it out. Took no shoite. You need that in a team. I hear that Sykes is no wimp though... Here's hoping that no one Messes With The Kid.

Have to say, if I had the choice between getting Skyes and keeping Hines, I'd choose keeping Hines.
I really hope an Irish lock can get a look in too other than Cullen.
McL, is my wild card!

Who is the kid?

Sykes is no wimp. But I hear he really doesn't like certain species of monkey. If the opposition wears a monkey costume I fear Sykes might retreat into his (peanut) shell.

I say sod the Pro12 this year. 100% back up players, even against Munster. Use it to give game time to the young 'uns and the returning walking wounded. Keep everyone else wrapped up in cotton wool for the HEC and give them the odd replacement appearance to keep their fitness up.

What do we have to lose? We won't lose our HEC place for next year, we only need to be 3rd and Connacht will implode after their first season in the HEC and a paper thin squad. We don't have anything to worry about there. This could be our last or last but one season with BOD and his lads, lets not spread them too thin.

I agree with you on the Pro 12 Greybeard.

Van der Merwe, Strauss, Hagan is an excellent front row. In the engine room its not great but Toner and Browne are probably what your looking at. Backrow looks good on paper but has yet to deliver as best they can; McLaughlin, Ryan, Ruddock. You lack for scrumhalves but Madigan, Berquist can do fine at 10. In the centres McFadden has to play at 12 and maybe get Macken in as a powerful strike runner. Carr, Conway and Fitzgerald is a back 3 that should be fine.

I like your thinking gents, obviously the first choice fellas will need to get semi regular time in the Pro12 though, for instance we can't have Cullen playing a HCup game having not played a game at all for 2 months.

Think Darcy may end up in the Por 12 team and McF in the Hcup team

greybeard wrote:Sykes is no wimp. But I hear he really doesn't like certain species of monkey. If the opposition wears a monkey costume I fear Sykes might retreat into his (peanut) shell.

I say sod the Pro12 this year. 100% back up players, even against Munster. Use it to give game time to the young 'uns and the returning walking wounded. Keep everyone else wrapped up in cotton wool for the HEC and give them the odd replacement appearance to keep their fitness up.

What do we have to lose? We won't lose our HEC place for next year, we only need to be 3rd and Connacht will implode after their first season in the HEC and a paper thin squad. We don't have anything to worry about there. This could be our last or last but one season with BOD and his lads, lets not spread them too thin.

Naughty boy Grey.

To be hoest a lot of people we on earlier about getting the Irish players like Trimble, Cullen, and Wallace back into thier provicial teams sooner without teh two week enforced break.

I agreed with this, however now I've thought of it the entire team do deserve a two week break no matter if they have played or not.

The players that went, had to bascially give up their summer to training away from their family, so it's only right that when they come back they get to spend time with family, or holiday, weather they played or not.

So I'm now in favour of the 2 week break for all players that traveled

Our strength in depth re: the back 3 and back row is just a little bit silly

YES!

It is in backrow. Back 3 . . . . not so much for me.

Nacewa - Yes, the main is a machine

Fitzgerald - The whole country whinged about his every move last year

Horgan - Still playing very well

Carr - Too flaky IMO to be a real contender

Conway - promising but very very inexperienced

Kearney - Needs to do more than be solid this year. Has shown he can do it but has been quiet for a while (mainly down to injury)

McFadden - is a centre

IMO its no better than say Earls, Howlett, F.Jones, Zebo, D.Hurley, J.Murphy and D.Barnes.

It's not A Million Miles Away, stag.

Ah no its still decent lke theres no bad player there

If it comes down to a "Photo-Finish" between Isa and Rob for the 15 Jersey.
Either player could leave his "Calling Card" on the Wing.
Rob is not as good a "Defender" or distributor.
He should make it his "Top Priority" to improve in these areas.
Rob is very good at running back "Against the Grain"
But I wouldn't give a "Deuce" which of them played fullback.
It's all down to "Wheels Within Wheels", but before Isa finishes his "Irish Tour", I would expect "Fresh Evidence" of Rob's improvement.
Hopefully Rob will no longer be "Jinx"ed with injury over the next few seasons.

Great to see so many people with great music taste

Haven't actually listened to Rory Gallagher in ages. Gonna have it on me iPod tomorrow.This was always my favourite one.

If a shy little white guy from Donegal can play the blues better than a black man, then there's no reason why 15 Irishmen can't play rugby better than the All Blacks.

Interesting debate folks.
On the back-row I'm unconvinced about Murphy cutting it at senior level. Spotted him after the French game at the Aviva in August and he looks a bit small. No taller than me and I'm 6ft. Has also looked out of his depth in Magners games I've seen him. Think he may end up as one of those top class school boys who can't take the step up when the opposition players get bigger. May be wrong but we'll wait and see. Dom Ryan is the man I want to see groomed as a 7 like many others here.
Tough to call first choice back line this season. McFadden to have a run at 12 for me. Most interesting one is who is the long term replacement for BOD. I wonder if they'll pull a surprise and look to move someone in there like Fitz or Kearney. Not sure about O'Malley or Macken yet but who knows.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Haven't actually listened to Rory Gallagher in ages. Gonna have it on me iPod tomorrow.This was always my favourite one.

If a shy little white guy from Donegal can play the blues better than a black man, then there's no reason why 15 Irishmen can't play rugby better than the All Blacks.

Well said! The best thing about Rory though was he was a true legend and he loved what he did! During the troubles he came to Belfast and performed to his fans when he was advised not to. That takes some courage, he is such a legend. Brought people from both Protestant and Catholic religions together on that one night. Amazing!

About Murphy, he is apparently 6 foot 2 and 105kg according to a few different statistics. That is pretty big for a potential openside, and he did not look lacking in physicality when I saw him play. At 8 he would be too small, at 6 he is the same height as O'Brien and 3 kg lighter. What magners matches did you see him play? So far he has only had 1 cap for Leinster which was this season..

Was Rory Gallagher that lad on X-Factor two years ago?

red_stag wrote:Was Rory Gallagher that lad on X-Factor two years ago?

That's blasphemy Mr. Stag!