Hook should never play 10 for Wales again.

Abysmal doesn't even come close.

Priestland is the number 1 man now.
Jones a close 2nd until he retires.

Then it's a battle with Steve Shingler, Bigger, Tovey and maybe Matthew Morgan to see which youngster will come good next.

i am next before hook and i am 41

He should play if he earns his place. The kicks he missed were not acceptable but nothing rules a player out for ever. We're a team of form like any other, not of scapegoating and condemnation.

agree with the above, hook will be lucky if he plays 10 for perpignan'
steven jones should have started this game. Now we know why all the coaches have moved hook from 10. we said it could happen and it has.

People who have said In the past hook is a 10, think about the ospreys - they said he wasn't years ago!

It does seem that us "armchair" referees/coaches don't know I all!

i said the other day that selecting hook was a big mistake. he did nothing to chage my mind today.

hook is all about hook. today he wanted to show some magic when we needed a steady, unselfish performance. wellies played so much better, but he missed kicks too.

hook must be happy with bench from now on, unless we are in need of a centre.

henson can play 10

watching him today he looked lazy and ponderous like Henson at his worst...where does he belong? maybe he is just a great 7s player but i am sure he will not figure next season for wales.

Gatts wrote:
Henson at his worst...

henson!!!!!

Hook was poor. He got an amazing first pen, then went on to miss two much easier ones. kicked away ball badly when he should have kept it in hand and distributed. Poor drop goal attempt. When 1/2 p is on the field, I'd give all 40 m kicks to him. I was remined of our loss to NZ in 2004. Too many kicks missed -- it was a game we could have won even with 14 men and without a TH.

Yeah I think that puts to bed the idea Hook is our saviour at ten. From Sams interview and the "harsh words" said in the changing room after I wonder if a few of the boys told him hed blown it.

We lost that game when Adam went off and made much worse with Warbs red card. Yes Hook missed a few kicks at goal and a rubbish drop but Jones was no better when he came on he missed the conversion and made a bigger hash of a drop goal and losing the ball in contact. Both our 10's had little or no game time in Hook's case 3 minutes. Under the conditions of 14 v 15. Wales did very well, if we won our line outs we may have won as we had little clean ball.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Yeah I think that puts to bed the idea Hook is our saviour at ten. From Sams interview and the "harsh words" said in the changing room after I wonder if a few of the boys told him hed blown it.

Don't be silly Tycroes.............. it'll all be forgotten in a few weeks, and you'll get the usual drivel (match / win ratio) and the likes of samuraidragon, glamorganalun. MOG, maesteg etc etc turning it around and saying Hook had a great game and WC campaign and it was "Wellies" who actually lost you the match, and that when he saunters over to his well paid French holiday he will prove to the world that his obvious "talents" are at flyhalf

I have said it you only have to look at your 28-9 6Ns loss to France in the spring to see how inconsistent the guy is, and the time you play Hooky at 10 is the time you'll be out of the tournament.

"Gatlands Law" Mr G just couldn't resist picking him could he .... well he did and it has finally bit him and the rest of Wales on the derriere

Saying that your two most influential and important players Adam and Sam going off was a massive blow, and if they had been on Wales and Hooky (to be fair you can't blame one man) would have sailed through
AND I LOST MT TENNER BET grrrrrrrrr

Hook should never play 10 for Wales again.

I totaly agree with you, Hook should of been on the bench today as cover for 10.12,13, Jones shou8ld have started at 10.

With hind sight Gatland would of been better off calling in Bigga rathert than play Hook.

cant agree glamorgan, steven jones had a real impact when he came on, even hook fans must agree with that surely!
the tv pundits said jones brought some intelligence to the no 10 position. yes jones missed a conversion, but the contribution he made to the rest of the game was very good. he missed the dg because a french player forced him to kick off a foot he doesnt normally kick with----cant be blamed on that one.

hook was the wrong one to start this game. my mate in tesco just said its not fair to play hook because he's not an experienced 10.! last week the SAME guy(who is a hook fan) said this is hooks chance. !!

hook fans are on their own planet, if he plays ok he's a 10 , if he doesnt play ok he's not a 10!!! unbelievable !!

majesticimperialman wrote:Hook should never play 10 for Wales again.

I totaly agree with you, Hook should of been on the bench today as cover for 10.12,13, Jones shou8ld have started at 10.

With hind sight Gatland would of been better off calling in Bigga rathert than play Hook.

Honestly Maj I feel Wellies bottled it at the end, he had just missed a drop and when it was on, he moved away from the pocket and directed his backline into running positions. I dont think he wanted the responsibility of the drop after the earlier miss. Waels have been poor with drops all tournament.

Priestland was the loss that hurt us the most, we coped with Adam going off just, the pack esp lyds and faletau stepped up when Sam was sent off. but we left 17 points on the pitch. Wellies and Hook have the kicking ability but both froze today. Steven can bow out and be proud of his career he has been a great servant to our game. James can go to France and seek redemption but they are not the future for this Welsh team. Priestland has the ten shirt now and its up to Tovey Shingler or Morgan to take it off him. The rest of the team will stay together other than tighthead we are strong in every position even with Shane Wellies, Adam, Gethin Phillips not being around in four years time, Shane and Wellies wont be there for the Aus game in a months time.

The future looks very good for Welsh rugby, so people get down to your regions and support your local clubs. Im off to watch Tycroes play Llandybie this afternoon, the sun is out and it should be a good game. Despite defeat things havent looked as good for Welsh rugby for a very long time.

I totally agree that the conversion Jones missed was a very bad miss, I don't blame him for the drop goal miss, Phillips called it, Jones had to rush into position. The pass from Phillips was around his knees and on his wrong side (left) for a right footed kicker.

You can't blame Hook for the loss today, that is down to a very poor tackle by Warburton, which was allways going to be a card. I was suprised that it was red as there was no malicious intent. But a dangerous tackle and deserved some form of sanction.

Back to Hook, he has no vision or tactical nous. Great runner with the ball but clearly not a 10, does not organise the team in attack or defence. Both Priestland, and Jones base their plays on what is in front of them not on frequently misplaced instinct. Hopefully we will not see him at 10 again for Wales.

Seagultaf I'm in agreement with regards hook, but when will he be recognised for the liability that he is? could this game be the one that has finally exposed him?

One thing Seagultaff, that Jones attempted conversion was an upright away from going over, it wasn't great but it wasn't far off.

I have always said that if you ever select Hook at 10, then you will lose that particular WC game.

Until the red cowboy hatted perm-tanned sections of the Welsh public (and dare I say it certain posters) stop their infantile obsessive craving for the "mercurial" "talented" "world class""creative" individualist flyhalf and realise that the modern game is about structured offensive play and team work then you will never open their eyes. He has been exposed many many times since debuting in 2007, to the extent that no coach (regional, national, or Lions) have kept him in the 10 role for long.

They harp on about Hooks marvelous individualist 2008 game against England but then conveniently forget the following few games where he orchestrated two losses in Oz against what they (Oz) stated was the poorest Australian team in decades (a certain Sam Norton-Knight played centre in the first game) but still let 60 points get past, he was abysmal in the second test. Even then he was a model of inconsistency, and it has continued right up to last season 6Ns (France) and against a very rusty but deffo the better team (Argentina). Of the three WC warm-up games the easiest should have been the Pumas but it was no co-incidence that they were the better team until they run out of gas.

Unfortunately I bet you my last haggis that you'll have the same posters bulling him up as the best thing since sliced Henson in a few months time.

I tota;ly disagree with this

Hook had a good game, and played to the gameplan.

Wales were winning, and indeed dominated most oppof the play. Partly this was down to Hooks threat both with his passing and his kicking. He dominated the French in the tactical kicking duel.
The Welsh lineout showed why they chose to kick for space rather than touch.

His goalkicjking?
Fisrt one was beaut. Second one he slipped on wet turf, not his fault. After that yeah not great granted...how many did Jones and Halfpenny land again? He'd hardly be alone in not putting in a vintage goal kicking peformance this world cup ... carter and even more so wilkinson have struggled. Even Patterson missed.

Wales were comfortably in charge of teh game with him at 10, right up till Warburton got carded. Even after that for much of the game Wales were dominant.

Given that Jones is due for his pension are you seriously suggesting putting a bullet in the back of the head of the welsh number 2...meaning they have to look to their 4th and 5th choice FHs? Dan Biggar??

Whats to say that Jones wouldve done any better? He missed a regulation conversion and didnt exactly spark Wales during those 26 phases of possession in the french half at the end.

Preistland should be number one for the 6 nations yes. But this talk of banishing Hook from Wales forever is ridiculous.Hes a quality player, and Wales need to retain some experience as the old guard retires to keep the continuity going. Otherwise youll see more inexperienced foolishness like the capatin getting himslef red carded and blowing an easy game.

"Second one he slipped on wet turf, not his fault"

Laugh I nearly croked!!! , so tell us all who's fault it was then Adam Jones, JPR Williams, Donald Duck, The Goal-Kicking Fairy

You play to the conditions, there is more than one way to approach a kick, and to be honest it wasnt that much of a slide.

He was caught out of position, defended very poorly, lost the ball in contact, got turned over, kicked possession away on numerous occasions, if you can't see that........ then perhaps you better stop drinking those sherberts before and during the match. I would suggest watching again the first 20 mins before Warburton got sent off, then the next 25 mins and then compare it last 35 mins

You have the following players who arguably are better 10s

Priestland
Tovey
Biggar
Robinson

and then you have some younger guns

Matthew Morgan
Shingler
Dan Newton

I would suggest if the Welsh A team is raised again alot of these players need game time

Spot the Scarlet supporters, Yes Hook was not at his best and he missed two long range kicks at goal but the game changed with Adam going off putting pressure on our scrum and losing Warbs, we were under a lot more pressure but we were still in the game against a good defence. We all know France only play for 50 mins and we got on top. thanks to the forwards, S Jones had a couple of good kicks but also a couple of bad kicks, he missed the easiest kick of the game, in a poor position for the screwed up drop goal and bottled getting into position for a drop goal in front of the posts. To cap it all he dropped the ball going into contact.. Please don't blame everything that goes wrong on one player as his replacement was not without blame/responsibility. Both 10's today have had little or no gametime, we have made the same mistake as NZ not giving game time for such a key position.

I think it was a great performance under the conditions, well done to all the players great team effort.

glamorganalun wrote:Spot the Scarlet supporters, Yes Hook was not at his best and he missed two long range kicks at goal but the game changed with Adam going off putting pressure on our scrum and losing Warbs, we were under a lot more pressure but we were still in the game against a good defence. We all know France only play for 50 mins and we got on top. thanks to the forwards, S Jones had a couple of good kicks but also a couple of bad kicks, he missed the easiest kick of the game, in a poor position for the screwed up drop goal and bottled getting into position for a drop goal in front of the posts. To cap it all he dropped the ball going into contact.. Please don't blame everything that goes wrong on one player as his replacement was not without blame/responsibility. Both 10's today have had little or no gametime, we have made the same mistake as NZ not giving game time for such a key position.

I think it was a great performance under the conditions, well done to all the players great team effort.

Well said. Ive just been watching the ITV highlights and couldnt believe Jones didnt get in the pcoket for a DG just before the Halfpenny miss. Neither he nor Hook covered themselves in glory, but its wrong to say either is solely repsonsible for the loss. The Hook reaction is OTT.

Just got back from my village club after a great match beating our local rivals 39-7. The overwhelming emotion of dissapointment weas clear but, Rolland wasnt blamed for our defeat or Warbuton. It was the points left on the pitch and the return of the lineout problems that were blamed.

Was Hook poor in the first half? yes dreadful. Was Wellies off the pace? Yes a shadow of his former self. Was anyone of them responsible for the defeat? honestly no I dont think so. It was all of the above plus lack of composure that cost us the game, we will learn and move on.

I dont think this board is reflective of many average welsh fans who are dissapointed but excited by this teams future.

Ymlaen Cymru.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

I dont think this board is reflective of many average welsh fans who are dissapointed but excited by this teams future.

Ymlaen Cymru.

Even if I go back to being English a strong wales is vital to European rugby. Ive always said that even when doing my best to wind you lot up

Well played Wales, keep it up. Honestly the spirit they showed in that game was something special.

flyhalffactory wrote:
the best thing since sliced Henson

glamorganalun wrote:Spot the Scarlet supporters, Yes Hook was not at his best and he missed two long range kicks at goal but the game changed with Adam going off putting pressure on our scrum and losing Warbs, we were under a lot more pressure but we were still in the game against a good defence. We all know France only play for 50 mins and we got on top. thanks to the forwards, S Jones had a couple of good kicks but also a couple of bad kicks, he missed the easiest kick of the game, in a poor position for the screwed up drop goal and bottled getting into position for a drop goal in front of the posts. To cap it all he dropped the ball going into contact.. Please don't blame everything that goes wrong on one player as his replacement was not without blame/responsibility. Both 10's today have had little or no gametime, we have made the same mistake as NZ not giving game time for such a key position.

I think it was a great performance under the conditions, well done to all the players great team effort.

Nothing to do with a regions colour at all. As a nation you should have selected a 10 that can position and defend, link forwards and backs and also straighten the damn line

Tosh on both counts,
Not blaming Hook for losing the game at all, but alot of people predicted his pattern of thought and how he would execute it, amazingly France didnt even bother to close him down. They concentrated on North, Roberts and 1/2p shows how little they thought of the mercurial Hook. Jones didn't play much better I agree but even a poorly performing Wellies got Wales moving and at least they were threatening when he came on.

And as for having little game time......... funny RP had what all of 10 mins to get his mind right when he debutted just a few months ago and yet he did ok, both Hook and Jones have about 170 caps between them for gawds sake.

Get a grip

I've watched it again(sad b) and sorry hooksters, your man was dreadfull for the first 20 odd minutes even before we lost warburton. And then worse!!
Forget the missed kicks, he kicked our possession away! out of position-too many times to mention,he was at a ruck with his back to the
french players doing nothing on more than one occasion. they used to call it 'hiding' and he's done it before. look at his body language and demeanour, rabbit in headlights!

you cant defend such a performance by slagging off sjones, he's not responsible for hooks play. this blind spot hooks fans have when he tries to play 10 is not worthy of their rugby knowledge. jones wasnt great, but at least we scored with him getting things going, dear oh lord, wasnt this hooks ''chance to shine''!!!

I see peter ws is on his wind up saying hook had a good game!! even my nan has disowned him !!!! no-one is blaming him for losing us the game, just trying to get the message over that he had a mare, and some!!! sjones is at the end of his career, that has nothing to do with hooks display, dreadfull. look out perpignan!!

I disagree. I thought hook was alright, not as good as RP, but weeklies took as back 12 months.

He's lost it.

Though looking forward to a three way fight between Priestland, Tovey and Shingler for the most converted shirt in Wales.

maestegmafia wrote:I disagree. I thought hook was alright, not as good as RP, but weeklies took as back 12 months.

He's lost it.

Maesteg

Are you serious?........... or just a bit p1ssed off that the player you have been trying to bolster up over the last few months was actually quite dire

Or are you turning in a WUM

Jones played better than Hook, I don't think anybody today has said otherwise ............. except for you


Drink alot of water mate

This thread sums up all the lack of knowledge of the game in these parts.

Hook had a poor game (but at least his kicking out of hand pegged France back near their own line) and when Stephen Jones came on he was even worse. That left footed drop goal attempt was painful to watch and tore his confidence so badly he refused to stand in the pocket when another one was being lined up 5 mins later.

But the game was lost when Adam and Warbs went off.

Blaming Hook, Jones and Halfpenny for missing kicks they'd normally get is infantile. If it had been 15 against 15 we'd have won by 10 points.

But it wasn't. Time to recognise a monumental effort by Wales and enjoy the rest of the tournament.

Flyhalf:

Yes these two flyhalves have lots of caps but Jones had some game time and Hook had 3 minutes since the Argentina warm up 5 weeks ago, both should have had some game time and it showed unfortunately. RP has played well and it is a shame he was not available but it is a squad system. We may find the AB's have the same problem when you get to the semi's. I just knew if we needed a drop goal at the end of the game S Jones is not your man as it proved, poor positioning like Parks and he deliberately did not get into position the second time (unbelievable). Had we not lost Warbs Wales would have won whoever was playing 10 as France have not played beyond 50 mins in any game.

Looking on the bright side we have done much better than most of us thought 6 weeks ago, we have always had the players just the way we have been playing, we saw some of that today being driven into touch by constantly going down the narrow side.

I wouldn't say he should never play again BUT now maybe the Hook for 10 Brigade will take off the rose coloured specs and realise that he isn't the best 10 in Wales - If he was he would have been able to hold down a 10 slot regularly at Region and Country.

He is still only 26 so in theory should still be around for the WC in 2015 and it would be very foolish to discard him IMO he does however need to mail down a slot in one position as his versatility is hampering him.

His kicking today was very poor and out of hand was to lose, he didn't get Roberts firing like Rhys did but he is still good enough to be involved in the Welsh set up.

Biggest factor, more so than the red card was A Jones going off injured as we struggle from then on in the scrum

I think the ''PLace must be found for hook'' went right down the pan today.

Welsh supporters love affair with the kind of 10 they think should be playing for wales has surely now gone.

Priestland is the no 1, and he's absolutely nothing like hook.

glamorganalun wrote:Flyhalf:

Yes these two flyhalves have lots of caps but Jones had some game time and Hook had 3 minutes since the Argentina warm up 5 weeks ago, both should have had some game time and it showed unfortunately. RP has played well and it is a shame he was not available but it is a squad system. We may find the AB's have the same problem when you get to the semi's. I just knew if we needed a drop goal at the end of the game S Jones is not your man as it proved, poor positioning like Parks and he deliberately did not get into position the second time (unbelievable). Had we not lost Warbs Wales would have won whoever was playing 10 as France have not played beyond 50 mins in any game.

Looking on the bright side we have done much better than most of us thought 6 weeks ago, we have always had the players just the way we have been playing, we saw some of that today being driven into touch by constantly going down the narrow side.

Alun mate hope you had a good day (result aside), as an adopted Welshman .....(since we bombed out against the old enemy), I have really enjoyed Wales play, and TBH they were the better team even with only 14 for 60 mins of the game. SUPERB EFFORT.

Diverting slightly and along your thoughts of game time. You guys played for three quarters of the match with one man missing .............. so must have been tired, so why didnt Mr G use all his subs? Lloyd Burns for a tired Bennett, and Lloyd Williams, Scott Williams both made impacts when they came on last time. I mean France looked tired and two fresh pair of legs attacking them could have produced a try or a pen (call for James !! joking sorry!!)

Seeing Jamie Roberts wasted in the scrum was when we knew it was all over.

fly,

Thats a good point but on flip side goes to prove how fit the guys are when we still finished the game the strongest having played for 60 minutes with 14 men.

Now this comment might get me shot down in flames but one man who might have had a big impact late in game if he had been on bench was Powell.

I have always said he's best suited to an impact role coming on last 10-15 minutes against tired legs etc and the French were out on their feet, flip side to that is he does give away far to many penalties.

does anyone else think stephen jones will retire from test rugby now?

I am still of the opinion that Jones was carrying any injury, which would explain why Gatland did not start him. I wouldn't be suprised if he retires from test rugby, but I hope he doesn't. He demonstrated today that he can still get the team moving forward, and Wales need a deputy for Priestland.

And can the posters who are critsising his attempted drop, look at the tape. Phillips called it when Jones was looking to run the ball. The pass from Phillips was at Jones knees and on his wrong side (left). His missed conversion should have been nailed though.

I think his trip to france could well be the making of James Hook. We will want him back in no time

maestegmafia wrote:I think his trip to france could well be the making of James Hook. We will want him back in no time

same as for SJ....but unless he changes his game he is no 10....I woudl play him at 13 or nowhere right now

i have never been that bothered about hook, yes moments of quality but i think he is too selfish to play 10, he wants to produce something every time he gets the ball- something he doesnt need to do- look at priestland when its on he goes for it, he plays tactically and i think its up to the likes of biggar, morgan, tovey etc to try and get that 10 shirt off him

I have just finished watching the game,very scrappy when Warburton was sent off.France played a shrewd game,kicking accurately,solid set piece,tackle every thing that moved.
Three chances,3 taken,Wales missed 3 penalties,and conversion IF Halfpenny .
Is a decent long range kicker why not let him take the kicks,?
On 70 minutes or so wales went thru about 20 odd phases,player at the base of the ruck.
Delivery for next phase was terrible,so slow BUT in nearly every phase there was French player in the Ruck.
Either not trying to roll clear,or just lying at the base,sealing off THAT really should have been a penalty.
Also it was so blatant there was a case for a yellow card for a professional foul.
Certainly the Red card spoilt the spectacle,BUT next week whoever gets France.
Will have a fight on there hands,the France set pieces were good,back row too,solid defence,and kicked there goals.
Typical RWC winning Rugby.

apart from sam going off hook was our worst player today by a country mile, whichever country you support

and you will love this one hook fans, my brother in law reckons gatland is to blame for playing hook at 10when he isnt a 10 !!!

Hook is not a 10. He hasn't got the brain for it. That is one thing even a Sunnis form can't sort out.

I thought Stephen jones played chicken from the moment he came on. Crap passes, fluffed kicks, bar one that he got lucky on, and avoided having to take the "winning drop goal". Bysmal and lack of moral courage at the end as if he didn't want another 2009 on his hands with the last kick.

I'd have Hook any and every day of the week over him.

pothale what utter rubbish, you only want hook so the irish can win!!!sjones chicken? he took that game and changed the focus to go forward for a try, what were you watching? how do you explain, and please do these explanations individually.

1 hook out of position, on at least 5 occasions
2 hook kicking our possession away and france running it back at us
3 'hiding, hovering around rucks when he should have been waiting for passes from phillips, chicken??
4 missing god easy kicks
5 being turned over
6 pathetic 2mtre passes, usual 'hospital 'mentality
7 being taken off WHY WHY WHY WAS HE TAKEN OFF?

if you can answer the above with comments other than he had a real mare of a game, then you are wearing the rose spectacles of the hook fan club, get real the guy just aint got it.!! good riddance I say he's been a chain on our necks stopping others coming through, lets hope this is the last we see of him.
if sjones had done HALF OF WHAT HOOK HAD DONE TODAY HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED, SO LEAVE It OUT. we are well rid of an albatross, surplus to requirements.

Hook had a shaky game, but nothing like as bad as the usual anti-Hook brigade are saying. He was guilty of missing two very kickable pens and butchered a drop. But as others have noted, Jones missed the easiest kick of all, also butchered a drop, got turned over, and refused to take another drop in the 25. If that's good game management, I'm Alain Rolland's mother.

Hook was not "greedy", did not try hail mary passes or solo jinking runs, as the detractors had predicted. He played to the game plan, passing or kicking at every opportunity. Hook's tactical kicking was decent - chips to Shane and North were pre-arranged, a couple of good long positional kicks. One inside pass to North was class but North dropped it.

After the red the French had Roberts and North well shackled and bosh-through tactics created nothing. The only way we were going to score a try was through a moment of individual creativity, and that's what we got from Phillips. (Why the hell didn't he go closer to the posts though , instead of celebrating!) Taht's why I thought it was a mistake to bring on Jones, even though he definitely had a calming influence. We lost the game calmly, going through the phases and creating nothing.

Roberts gave everything , but his passing was inaccurate - one hit JD2 in the face! Apart from the try Phillips had a mixed game. The pick and drives were making zero yards , but he persisted with them. Likewise using the blind side tactic again and again. Several times we lost possession, with North behind forced into touch. This tactic is useless, in my view. We also got owned in the line-out.

On th red card - very harsh, and similar tackles have got yellows. Yet Rolland
was clearly within the letter of the law. Sam shouldn't have dropped him.
He should have set him down. That ruined the game because the French were there for a 15-20 point taking.

Hook was not "greedy", did not try hail mary passes or solo jinking runs, as the detractors had predicted. He played to the game plan, passing or kicking at every opportunity.

Sorry you need to re=phrase that to kicking at every opportunuty!! Pretty much everytime Hook got the ball he booted away possesion! It was boring as hell to watch and got Wales no where. It summed it up when Wales had good attacking ball in the France 22 and Hook sent through a grubber cross field kick for shane to chase. What a waste. That on top of the countless aimless kicks down field took me back to the way England used to play with Rob Andrew pulling the strings.