European rugby season

Can anyone please be so kind as to explain to me all the european competitions when they run from and for how long.

I am trying to figure out the international schedules and domestic schedules for europe.

thanks.

The domestic leagues started in early September. Domestic cups have just started. The Heineken cup starts in November with a one off international test in December. The domestic and European competition then run side by side untill May.

wikipedia is a very good source for fixture schedules.... probably the best place to look anyhow.

In the end it will be very difficult given one hemisphere will have to place spring summer autumn whilst the other will play autumn winter spring for example.

It may just develop 2 different types of rugby, with different sized players etc.... a summer game will suit lighter players and be faster paced, a winter one will suit larger players on the other hand.

Who will buckle... the money, the revenue is all in Europe but the 3N sides will not want to shift one bit. I doubt it will be possible but it would be great if it could happen as long as the above issues are resolved.

biltonbek, the following might help you ...

HC:

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/fixtures_heineken_cup.php

Rabo Pro 12:
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/fixtures_list.php

Aviva:
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/premiership/rugby/index.php

LV Anglo-Welsh Cup:
http://www.rugbyweek.com/anglowelshcup/fixtures.asp

France Top 14:
http://www.rugbyweek.com/top14/fixtures.asp

6 Nations:
http://www.rugbyworld.com/featured/rbs-6-nations-fixtures-2012/

There's the Amlin to add to those above as well.

If you search the competition and the year in wikipedia it gives you the dates in the box on the right e.g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_European_Challenge_Cup

Domestic Season - September-May

European Season - Pool matches Nov-Jan. Knockout April/May

Autumn Internationals - November

6 Nations - February/March


Simplistic but largely accurate.

Thanks Tiger. That was what I wanted to know.

Am I correct that during the Autumn internationals and the six nations that the domestic comeptitions are still running and there for the clubs play without their international players?

Biltong, you're not undertaking an investigation into a global season are you?

biltongbek wrote:Thanks Tiger. That was what I wanted to know.

Am I correct that during the Autumn internationals and the six nations that the domestic comeptitions are still running and there for the clubs play without their international players?

It varies depending on the Country. Some domestic league matches are played when International players are unavailable - but the Anglo/Welsh and British&Irish Cups are played during International Windows as well.

the international window for AIs covers 3 weekends (though some countries play a 4th outside the official window)

The 6Nations covers 7 weekends (5 playing and 2 rest).

Well, errrr, what makes you think that.

biltongbek wrote:Well, errrr, what makes you think that.

You'll be working for the IRB next....office opposite Paddy, then you can really get your case to remove Bryce across (I hope you're good at paper darts - vert effective for getting one's attention)

I cannot remember the agreed match limit for England internationals, but in a typical season England would play 10 internationals, while their club would have a minimum of 28 Domestic League and European Matches.

Should they make the knockout stages there could be a further 5 matches.

Too many matches.

I will get rid of Paddy first. Then by the time I get to Bryce, well when he sees me walking down the isle, he will most likely quit before I can lay a hand on him.

But seriously I am trying to understand why the IRB has not yet figured out a way to make the season universal for every rugby playing nation.

Effectively the NH rest in July and August and the SH in December and January which is not accurate either because the teams have pre season as well.

Now I understand it is very hot in certain countries during the SH summer, and probably the same for the NH.

BUt it all just seems so fragmented. If they can start a universal international season that runs for a sepcific period every year.

Imagine the NH international window runs from October to January and the SH international window runs from August to November.

Then you can have the Fournations in Augst and September whilst the European teams can tour in OCtober, we travel north for november, and the six nations can run december and january. This is just roughly.

The benfit of this is that the SH then has January to July to do their domestic competitions and the NH has February to September.

There is then no breaks that interrupt competitions.

biltongbek wrote:Iand the six nations can run december and january.

There are too many matches called off in Late December and through January because of snow and freezing conditions. So, ignoring the tradition of when the 5/6 Nations happens, it would not be practical to try and play the 6N then.

The best thing would be if the NH could adapt to the SH timetable.
The problem is changing things now is almost impossible without either running 2 seasons back to back with no break or a huge 8 month break where clubs and unions lose money hand over fist.

I would be all for turning tradition on its head and lining up the NH season with the SH.

i.e. Say March through to November.

Games in Dec - Feb, or winter, as we in the North call it are subject to freezing, rain, snow, etc etc . No fun for the paying spectator at all.

Give me a summer evening game with cold beer in hand any day.


Lets be honest our summers are nothing to write home about so there should be no 'pitches are too hard issues' at the pro level because they have the means to water them.

I would keep the amateur game in its traditional Sept to May slot so that we can have year round rugby.

Doctornickolas, if it is better for the NH to play according to the SH calender it would simplify things even more.

Is it possible to play during the summer months though? Is it not to hot?

France would prob be too hot. No problem in Ireland or the UK though.

Not really,at least in Ireland or Britain.I can't speak for France or Italy.

Stag here by us in February when we start the Super rugby season it is still incredibly hot. durban is known for it's absolute humidity with the heat that time of year. Even October while we still have the Currie Cup semis and final to play the temperatures are reaching close to 30 degrees celcius

I'm against the summer season idea because I like cricket. So do many other people at the lower levels of the game. I would like to play both sports and cricket CANNOT be a winter sport for obvious reasons. I gap over christmas/new year with play then extended slightly at the end of the season could work better. The SH would have similar gaps i.e. an end of season and a mid season gap. The end of season for one would be the mid season for the other...

I'm all for summer rugby in the NH. People have said that the pitches will be too dry and dangerous?! Are you kidding! We don't exactly get sub-saharan temperatures up here. Plus, it's far easier to moisten a dry pitch than thaw a frozen one.

Yes, the christmas/new year game are great but so many around that period are called off due to frozen pitches or, ridiculously, 'ice on the terraces causing a slipping hazard for spectators'. I've chosen not to go to some games on at 7.30pm on a sub-zero, miserable winters night because it is on the TV and I just think what's the point of freezing my nadgers off to watch a load of freezing players grunting and playing up the jumper stuff. I'm sure there are others like me. Watching a muddy washout of a game is entertaining once or twice. But a few times a season and it gets extremely tedious. The best club games I've been to for the all round package have been the rare hot start of summer games where the club/region can put on a load of extra activities because they know fans will be looking for a day out for the family, rather than just popping out in the cold and getting the game over and done with as quickly as possible so they can return to the warmth of their homes.

Some also say that sponsors and TV deals will be affected by the 6N being moved. Surely it will be a much better spectacle in warmer climates, so more fans will go to the game and more people around the world will want to tune in?

Another argument from the North is tradition. The only tradition I can see is that the NH is 'traditioanlly' worse at running rugby than the SH, so lets get on more of a level playing field and play our rugby in better weather so that we're used to firm pitches and a fast, open game.

Oh, and for those that say that rugby is a winter sport and it stops people playing summer sports in the uk such as cricket: take up something else in the winter and stop making excuses!

screamingaddabs, I was writing my message while you posted yours so didn't write my cricket comment as a reply to you!

Maybe it should just be the rugby pros who play a summer season, as they obviously will not need/want to play cricket.

It would be fine if just the pro game changed but that would n't work as the teams overlap on the way down. At what point do you split it? Get everyone playing from Late August to early Dcember, then Late January to mid June. That way, whilst there is overlap with the cricket (and other summer sport) seasons there is also time apart, plus the players get two breaks from the game, hopefully helping reduce player fatigue.

This seems to me to be a decent compromise. This way, both seasons NH and SH are played in a mix of summery and wintery conditions, with the worst excesses or weather in both avoided.

Griff, no worries buddy, the desire to play cricket doesn't hold much weight with non-players...

screamingaddabs, I would think this would only apply to professionals, as the season impacts mostly on them.

Surely there can't be too any professionals playing a summer and winter sport.

That's fine Biltong, but where do you split it? The championship needs to be the same season as the Premiership. Division 1 needs to be the same season as the Championship, Division 2 needs..............

In England it goes from professional down to amateur in stages, sometimes with half the clubs in a league one type (e.g. semi pro) and the other half another (e.g. amateur). At what point do you split it?

When RL changed over EVERYONE changed over, would the same not be true in RU? Plus the winter would suddenly become very boring...

Unfortunately I don't know your seasons well at all so won't be able to offer a solution.

If I look at the SA calender. If our international season runs concurrent from August to November, then it means there is 30 weeks from 1 January to work out the schedules for all our domestic rugby, be it amateur or Professional.

Interesting article in the Rugby Paper this week suggesting SA might look to join the NH domestic leagues or something like that, some say they already have with Sarries!

Is this why you are interested Bil?

No hersh, tobe honest I am not happy about the Super XV as it is, I would prefer us to go on our own rather than join European rugby.

I have this firm belief that familiarity breeds contempt.

I would prefer it if we only play against other nation's player when it comes to tests.

This whole mix and match of clubs from all across the board is killing test rugby in my opinion.

But if the seasons changed then what on earth would I do for entertainment and exercise in the winter?! I guess I would have to take an interest in football...

Well there is always ice fishing, ice hockey, treating your woman to a nice evening of redwine and marshmellows in front of a fire.

I posted something on the old 606 about this in terms of conditioning. I studied sports science at uni and one thing that has always stuck with me is the principle of periodisation and tapering. For the world cup the players had a load of time together pre-world cup where they trained intensely, then eased off and did maintenance training during the world cup with their fitness aims being reached and maintained.

However, this is just not possible in the NH with the present structure/schedule. Athletes (I still laugh a bit when thinking of rugby players as athletes!) need to build up in intensity to a peak before recovering, and then re-training for the next 'cycle'. A cycle in rugby would be 1 year/season. So, ideally they'd have a pre-season, then pre-season friendlies to build match fitness, then step up in intensity to league, then cup, then interntaionl level, then world cup every 4 years, before rest and recuperation and then another pre-season.

However, in the UK we have a few pre-season freindlies, then a few weeks of league, then a handful of LV cup games, then a week or 2 of league, then 2 weeks of Heinken Cup/Amlin Cup (may be a step up or down in intensity depending on opposition!), then league, then autumn internationals, then league, then HC/AC, then 6N, then league, HC/AC, then league, then summer tours, then rest. Don't forget that because of the congested fixture list our players sometimes have to play 3 times in 7 days (i.e. saturday, mid week and saturday), and then at other points they may have a month off. That is insane.

Not only is the disjointed league a problem for teams to build momentum but from a conditioning point of view it must be a nightmare to manage these different peaks in intensity. I'm sure more injuries come about because of it. My team, Gwent Dragons, seems to suffer a lot from injuries and we're down to our 5th choice tighthead, and effectively 3rd choice front row, 8 weeks into the season! The Dragons are about to make history by giving a debut to the youngest welsh regional player at 17 years and some days next saturday but, wait for it, they expect this to be broken the week after when they debut Jack Dixon at 16 something!!!

A season played in blocks will allow interntaional players to come back slowly and youth to be given a chance in the pre-season and league games, while steadily increasing intensity and allowing fans to know what day it is!

I'd like to see SA teams in the HC.

Griff, so you are saying it would be best to have continuity from one competition, building to the next and the next, in other words finish one, then move onto the next etc?

HERSH wrote:I'd like to see SA teams in the HC.

Why?

you already have so many nations involved already.

The Universal Rugby season makes sense now because[sadly]in the pursuit of money Players are expected to play 10 months of the year.
When I was much younger I was a sports freak,Rugby Union,to a lesser extent League and Soccer in the Winter.
Cricket in the Summer,3day County Matches,and 5 day Test Matches,Soccer/Rugby being roughly mid Sept till endof April.Cricket May till September.Rugby being a winter game Cricket Summer.
Tours occurring in other parts of the world where seasons reversed.
Players having to play 28-33 matches only occurred on tour,and there was a Saturday and Mid week team.
Given the growth of players in size and weight,relative increase in games etc.
Key Players as we more and more see are injured or recovering from for much longer periods.
Which means inievtably,bigger squads,more matches with key players missing or downgraded.
The plus side is younger Players get there chances to play,the down side devalued tours ,test matches etc.
If both Sh and NH could co-ordinate more or lesser windows in the programs at the same time it would help.
Also reduce the number of test matches,but include more tours to tier2 nations with squads of realistic strengths for the country involved.
As an example a tour of Europe including a few Club matches,a Strong side.
Samoa /Tonga/Fiji a side which realistically gives the home sides a chance to win.
One sided massacres help no one,and the players blooded will strenghten the national sides.

biltongbek wrote:Griff, so you are saying it would be best to have continuity from one competition, building to the next and the next, in other words finish one, then move onto the next etc?

Biltong, yes personally I would like to see continuity and building from one to the next. However, in reality it may not be possible. There may not be enough weeks in the year:

Here in the UK and Ireland we'd have the Pro Direct (Magners) league this would be 22 weeks (let's say 1st March - to start of August in a 'summer rugby' season)
Then we could have the LV cup (personally I'd scrap it completely) for 3 weeks (til end of August). (Would we put the semis and final straight after or wait til the end of the season?)
Heineken Cup pools for 6 weeks (Sept - mid Oct) (again when do you schedule in the knockout stages? Straight away?)
October is then starting to get pretty cold, but we have to press on with 6N. If it was condensed then we could do it all in 5 weeks (Mid Oct - start of December). It's now really cold and we've negated the 'Summer rugby' thing.

We haven't yet put in the cup knockout stages which would be about 3 weeks for HC/AC and 2 for the LV Cup. Also we have playoffs in the Rabo Pro Direct league too!

Where do the SH tours (us to you and you to us) come into this? I think this is why we have the disjointed, overlapping season. It's just to fit it all in! We'd have to play you in January or Feb, but then there's no break before the start of the new season.

So in summary, from a player and spectator point of view I'd like to see nice neat blocks of competition increasing in intensity (would be great for international coaches to get to see players for a whole domestic season before having to pick the best players), but then I am a bit OCD. However, from a purely practical point of view I don't think it would work. It only works because we overlap!

I'd like to see seperation and continuity of the competitions as well, with the exception of the LV, which should remain a development competition and I'd hold concurrent with the 6N.

My problem with rugby during the European peak summer months would be that my weekends are often packed then, I go climbing, hiking, biking, sailing, canoeing etc, so wouldn't end up making as many games. Early or late summer would be preferential to the middle from that perspective.

biltongbek wrote:Can anyone please be so kind as to explain to me all the european competitions when they run from and for how long.

I am trying to figure out the international schedules and domestic schedules for europe.

thanks.

Pretty easy, the season is 42 weeks long, with a 10 week off season. no player is allowed to play more than 30 games during the 42 week season.

The first weekend of this season began on Saturday the 13 of august, generally speaking a club has 2 weekends of pre-season friendlies prior to the league starting in the first week of September, the league will be played straight through till mid October.

The 2 Heinaken Cup games will be played prior to the November international series, where the Tri Nations teams tour the 6 Nations teams prior to the end of their season.

Generally during the November International period club league rugby will stop, but the Anglo-Welsh LV Cup for reserve teams will be played, or at least the first 2 rounds (out of 4). Wales will normally squeeze in a 4th international in November which will clash with the league.

4 (out of 6) Heinaken Cup pool games will generally be squeezed in either side of the November internationals, 2 at the end of October and 2 at the start of December.

The league games continue to the start of January where we will then have the final 2 Heinaken Cup pool games before the start of the 6 Nations at the start of Febuary. During the 6 Nations we generally have the final 2 Lv pool Games and a few league games.

The league final game is generally on the final weekend of May, with the Heinaken Cup final the week before.

Once the club season is finished some Nations squeeze in a home international game before embarking on a 3 week, 3 International game tour.
The tour should be completed by the last week of June, where the Northern Hemisphere season ends.

Any international player who go on tour in June, will generally have to have 4 extra weeks rest at the start of the following season, so will miss the 2 pre-season warm up games and the first 2 weeks of league games to enable them to get their 10 week rest period.

plenth wrote:I'd like to see seperation and continuity of the competitions as well, with the exception of the LV, which should remain a development competition and I'd hold concurrent with the 6N.

My problem with rugby during the European peak summer months would be that my weekends are often packed then, I go climbing, hiking, biking, sailing, canoeing etc, so wouldn't end up making as many games. Early or late summer would be preferential to the middle from that perspective.

for the very same reason there is no football, rugby, basketball or any other regular competition going on from july till mid august in france because that's when the average frenchman will take 3-4 weeks off on holidays so it would be difficult to fill any stadium not to mention the potential lack of tv revenus. this is a legacy from the days where those sports where amateurs and players were just following school holidays pattern like everybody else (it is not rare to find offices or factories that just shutdown in august). still this is very very unlikely to change I think.

In Ireland this could kill rugby or at least reduce its level as the GAA season runs through the summer and Hurling and Gaelic Football are the two biggest sports in the country so I certainly would not like this to happen.