Lions panel - 2013

OK, RWC is now over for Irl, Eng, Sco and Wal - so who based on form in RWC would be on the 2013 Lions trip to Oz.
Assume panel size will be same as last time - 37- 3 hookers, 5 props, 5 locks, 6 flankers, 2 no.8, 3 SH, 2 OH, 4 centre, 7 wing/FB. Exclude those who based on age who are unlikely to be there - the likes of BOD etc.
Obviously this excludes players who might come through in the next two yeas, but we can only go on the basis of who we know now.

Here's my panel:
Hookers: Best (i), Bennett (w), Hartley (e)
Props: Healy (i), Ross (i), Jenkins (w), Jones (w), Cole (e)
Locks: O'Connell (i), AW Jones (w), Charteris (w), Gray (s), Palmer (e)
Flanker: O'Brien (i), Ferris (i), Warburton (w), Lydiate (w), Haskell (e), Brown (s)
No. 8: Faletau (w), Heaslip (i)
SH: Phillips (w), Murray (i), Youngs (e)
OH: Priestland (w), Sexton (i)
Centre: Roberts (w), Davies (w), Tuilagi (e), AN Other (no compelling candidate)
Wing/FB: Bowe (i), Earls (i), North (w), Ashton (e), Foden (e), Halfpenny (w), AN Other

The Lions is in 2 years time..
There's a final on on Sat evening/Sunday morning..

Given they are going to OZ I suppose they might have some chance of winning...

AN Other who does he play for?

Youngs - really!

O Connell, no NO NOOOOO! he has no go forward.

and as for Haskell the tour destroyer no thanks, I read somewhere he got his Lawyer involved so his reputation ('Brand') wasn't ruined over the Aussie Kiss.

Palmer and O'Connell are both into their 30s now, not sure they'll still be top of their game in 2 years time. Second row looks a tad to nice as well, I'd be tempted to include Big Jim Hamilton in case additional bulk and agression is needed. I'd have Croft over Brown as well. Sean Lamont as another option at 12? He's not as hard hitting as Roberts but I'd back him to get over the gainline and cause trouble.

I'd also drop the AN Other wing/fb option and bring Flood as another fly half as otherwise with an injury to one of Priestland or Sexton and you're down to the bare bones plus you don't want your first choice ten playing in the mid week games but you will want 2 OHs to in each match day squad.

Considering Scotlands pack pretty much out played all they went against, surprised forgotten about again - but just a couple that were immense -plus 2 from the backs- why not eh!

Hooker - Ford (s)
Props - Murray (s)
Centre - Ansbro (s)
Wing - m Evans (s)

formerly known as Sam wrote:Palmer and O'Connell are both into their 30s now, not sure they'll still be top of their game in 2 years time.

Tell that to Brad Thorn

Jonno was 34 when England won the RWC. Shaw was Lions man of the series at 37. Everyones different but there is every chance both will be at the top of their games in 2 season.

Two years left 'til the tour, and that's a long time in rugby, just look at how George North and Faletau have come on in 1 year.

The Lions always take some newbies, and with it being 2 years from now, a few outside bets from Wales (total guesses, but what the hell!) would be possibly:

Lloyd Williams (Blues)
Scott Williams (Scarlets)

Both have appeared at this world cup and shone. Anyone notice how much better we were when Lloyd Williams came on for Mike Phillips? (although it would be hard not to pick Phillips, but he just offers something different).

I think Scott Williams will prove to be a useful center.

roddersm wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Palmer and O'Connell are both into their 30s now, not sure they'll still be top of their game in 2 years time.

Tell that to Brad Thorn

Jonno was 34 when England won the RWC. Shaw was Lions man of the series at 37. Everyones different but there is every chance both will be at the top of their games in 2 season.

Roddersm, I completely agree with you that age is only a number and that form and consistency is more important. However, just to be annoying: wasn't Jamie Roberts Lions' man of the tour when Shaw was 37, i.e. in South Africa??? (Sorry!)

12trees

Cips and Henson will make the tour as well.

Possibley Roddersm but with POC powers having diminished somewhat following those injuries and Palmer struggling to keep his place in the England team under the threat of Lawes (having already been overtaken by Deacon) I'm not sure he'll be an international fixture much longer. Especially if he remains in France when his contract expires next summer.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Possibley Roddersm but with POC powers having diminished somewhat following those injuries .

PoC was at his best over the last few months.He is back to the top of his game so I don't see why people keep saying things like this.I'll be surprised if he doesn't captain Ireland at the next WC for his swansong.

GAVIN HENSON !!

Here's my panel: Not on WC form though - just who I would like to see


Hookers: Best (i), Ford (s), Hartley (e)
Props: Healy (i), Corbis (e), Jenkins (w), Jones (w), Cole (e)
Locks: Lawes (e), AW Jones (w), Charteris (w), Gray (s), Palmer (e)
Flanker: O'Brien (i), Ferris (i), Warburton (w), Lydiate (w), Robshaw (e), Brown (s)
No. 8: Faletau (w), Heaslip (i)
SH: Phillips (w), Care (e)
OH: Priestland (w), Sexton (i), Flood (e)
Centre: Roberts (w), Davies (w), Tuilagi (e), Max Evans(s)
Wing/FB: Bowe (i), Monye (e), North (w), Ashton (e), Foden (e), Halfpenny (w), Sharples (e)

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Possibley Roddersm but with POC powers having diminished somewhat following those injuries .

PoC was at his best over the last few months.He is back to the top of his game so I don't see why people keep saying things like this.I'll be surprised if he doesn't captain Ireland at the next WC for his swansong.

Totally agree. O'Connell has played his best rugby over the past few months since before the last Lions tour. By dropping a few pounds he is fitter, quicker and his ball carrying, though never his strongest point, has improved. I know some fans outside of Ireland don't rate him as highly as we don, but watch Ireland with him and without him- the difference is staggering.

He certainly picked up his form for the RWC and his impact on the Irish squad is a major positive for Ireland, however, I don't think he is the all powerful leader we saw in the Lions series nor the giant of a man leading the charge for Munster in their golden years. He appears to have lost his edge and his return to a some decent form doesn't hide that he doesn't get his hand in at the breakdown, lineout and maul nearly as much as he used to.

A formerly great player is currently just a good player. However, in two years time he could be to far past his peak whilst the likes of Gray, Lawes, Wyn Jones etc could just be reaching the summit of theirs. I think there are enough young locks at around the same standard as he is now to keep him out. Unless of course he under goes a Shaw like transformation and suddenly has an indian summer period in his career which isn't impossible.

Here's a prediction for you.

In 2013 the Lions scrum half will be Lloyd Williams. And I would put some money on that right now.

formerly known as Sam wrote:He certainly picked up his form for the RWC and his impact on the Irish squad is a major positive for Ireland, however, I don't think he is the all powerful leader we saw in the Lions series nor the giant of a man leading the charge for Munster in their golden years. He appears to have lost his edge and his return to a some decent form doesn't hide that he doesn't get his hand in at the breakdown, lineout and maul nearly as much as he used to.

A formerly great player is currently just a good player. However, in two years time he could be to far past his peak whilst the likes of Gray, Lawes, Wyn Jones etc could just be reaching the summit of theirs. I think there are enough young locks at around the same standard as he is now to keep him out. Unless of course he under goes a Shaw like transformation and suddenly has an indian summer period in his career which isn't impossible.

I'll lend you my glasses sure, since you haven't been watching much of him. There's a good reason his contribution to Munster and Ireland has been slight this year- he was injured and then suspended and then injured again nearly all season. The World Cup once again showed how important he was. If the rest of the forwards had have played as he and Rory Best did against Wales maybe us Irish fans would be sitting here crying into our Coco Pops at the refereeing decisions of Roland- oh thats right, he's Irish so we wouldn't. That was Irish revenge for putting us out. How'd you like them apples? Were they delicious?

His work at the breakdown is as good as ever, and in fact his lineout work is probably better than ever. i know some people get post-World Cup fever when every player over 30 is suddenly finished. I would still take a slightly past his peak O'Connell than Wyn-Jones and Lawes. I have been highly impressed with Charteris who I never rated before. He always reminded me of the guy in your team in school who played second row because he was tall and was good for nothing else. I think it's called Devon Toneritis. He was excellent for Wales and for me out performed Wyn-Jones. Gray, well, it's a pity he's a Scot. Playing for the Lions might be the only time we really see the best of him.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Possibley Roddersm but with POC powers having diminished somewhat following those injuries .

PoC was at his best over the last few months.He is back to the top of his game so I don't see why people keep saying things like this.I'll be surprised if he doesn't captain Ireland at the next WC for his swansong.

Totally agree. O'Connell has played his best rugby over the past few months since before the last Lions tour. By dropping a few pounds he is fitter, quicker and his ball carrying, though never his strongest point, has improved. I know some fans outside of Ireland don't rate him as highly as we don, but watch Ireland with him and without him- the difference is staggering.

Yeah I concur. He's been back to his very best and looks like he has a couple of seasons in him at least. Not sure about the next RWC but I'd be confident that he has a very good chance of making the 2013 Lions tour and along with Warburton is a potential captain.

Griff yeah Roberts was man of the tour but I'm sure shaw was man of the series or something? Anyways he played really well despite his advancing years, thats the point.

i know some people get post-World Cup fever when every player over 30 is suddenly finished. I would still take a slightly past his peak O'Connell than Wyn-Jones and Lawes

Well obviously he's still good enough to be playing now (as he was picked and returned to form) but in two years he will have had another two years of wear on a body that has taken a battering. You've said it yourself he's struggled with injuries and I disagree that he's as good as ever.

Sam I think he is better than ever. He was below par in the 6N, which is understandable but from the magners final onwards he has been playing better than ever and looking fitter and hungrier than I've ever seen him. Many pundits,not Irish, were calling him the best lock in the world after the group stages.

any ideas who the coaching team will be?

doctornickolas wrote:Here's a prediction for you.

In 2013 the Lions scrum half will be Lloyd Williams. And I would put some money on that right now.

+1

He is very talented and im hoping he can remain injury free and get the whole season at the Blues (he has only played a dozen or so proffessional games, like North), R.Rees is awful at the moment, we really need Lloyd back.

roddersm wrote:Sam I think he is better than ever. He was below par in the 6N, which is understandable but from the magners final onwards he has been playing better than ever and looking fitter and hungrier than I've ever seen him. Many pundits,not Irish, were calling him the best lock in the world after the group stages.

Agreed. The key has been the weight loss in my opinion. I have always thought that D'Arcy was about a stone or two too heavy, and if O'Driscoll is going to continue I would like to see him lose some excess muscle too.

And two years is a long time in rugby. I can remember back two years ago when Welsh fans were saying Wyn-Jones would be the best lock in the world, and he produced four years of abject rugby, only now coming anywhere near his form in the Grand Slam season. What has Jamie Roberts done in the past four years, or Croft for that matter? The best 6 in world rugby to some English fans on the last Lions tour, now hardly a person outside of England would pick him to go on the next tour. Lydiate, Faletau, North and Preistland have a long way to go to prove themselves on the international scene, as does, in my opinion, Sean O'Brien, Cian Healy, Ashton, Foden. One decent season, or a handful of games does not make you a world class player.

By the way, notice Ireland's problem there- I mentioned two young players who have alot of work to do to be consistent performers. We have problems with new players having to integrate into the side in the coming year