General Chat

Calder106 wrote: it is perceived he is not good enough when he loses to Djokovic, Nadal, or Federer but when he beats any of them its because they are not really trying or injured.

That is bang on the money, the main problem in this section and why members are leaving.
To those who are doing this, is it your aim to drive members away from this site?

If people can't engage in a discussion and cannot handle comments expressed in clear English without abuse, just because they undermine the achievements of their favourite player, then they have no place in front of a keyboard.

It really is time that people stopped being such complete tarts about what constitutes acceptable debate.

I think Murray has done very well but if someone else wants to belittle his achievements then I say that's up to them and perfectly fair enough. Prove them wrong.

Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

Y I Man wrote:

Calder106 wrote: it is perceived he is not good enough when he loses to Djokovic, Nadal, or Federer but when he beats any of them its because they are not really trying or injured.

That is bang on the money, the main problem in this section and why members are leaving.
To those who are doing this, is it your aim to drive members away from this site?

You don't really expect to get an answer from them now do you!

This Forum like most others will always focus on those at the top of their game and as for tennis which this thread is concerned with we are talking about the top four who in their own right are known World Wide and are all Multi-Millionaires.

So for some unknown person sitting at a keyboard who wishes to decry any one of them wether it's jealousy or for whatever other reason it makes no difference to what is or will be happening to the individual concerned in the real world.

However those that are fans of a particular player do take umbridge to some of the " juvenile " comments made and rather than argue with the poster concerned as it is a waste of time and effort, they decide to move on.

How does one stop that from happening is a difficult one especially for those fans who are at the receiving end and aren't thick skinned!

One good thing (one of the few) on the old 606 was that the the OP could edit comments on his own thread which did help to keep it sensible, and without this facility on v2 there maybe  a lot of good posters who probably won't bother writing articles because of this.

I dont want to hear about those people who threaten leaving because someone expresses a view, biased or not! Those who can't take a bit of wumming or arguing about their player are often as biased if not more. PLease just go silently...or ignore.

Look at sportlover, I am told he is a member at MTL but is dead bored over there and come here to get a fight with the anti-Murray.

I don't even want to express my honest views about Murray cause whatever negative I say will be blown out and I'll end up as a Murray hater, regardless.

Tenez wrote:I dont want to hear about those people who threaten leaving because someone expresses a view, biased or not! Those who can't take a bit of wumming or arguing about their player are often as biased if not more. PLease just go silently...or ignore.

Look at sportlover, I am told he is a member at MTL but is dead bored over there and come here to get a fight with the anti-Murray.

I don't even want to express my honest views about Murray cause whatever negative I say will be blown out and I'll end up as a Murray hater, regardless.

Tenez wrote:I dont want to hear about those people who threaten leaving because someone expresses a view, biased or not! Those who can't take a bit of wumming or arguing about their player are often as biased if not more. PLease just go silently...or ignore.

Look at sportlover, I am told he is a member at MTL but is dead bored over there and come here to get a fight with the anti-Murray.

I don't even want to express my honest views about Murray cause whatever negative I say will be blown out and I'll end up as a Murray hater, regardless.

Says the poster previously banned on different forums and who along with bogbrush manage to rid v2 of most of the Nadal fans- you must be proud!

And if you want to use my name get your facts right before posting - as for MTL I think I have posted around half a dozen times in the last three or four months - I do have a life away from "Tennis Forums"

YI Man - Create a special forum only for Tenez and you may get back some of those that have left v2.

The difference between you and me SL, is that I contribute to many threads with many people joining and debating about tennis and its many facets and players.

You essentially come here to have a go at the anti-murray ad bring hardly anything constructive about tennis, not even about Murray.

Y I Man wrote:Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

I only say that if the cap fits, wear it.

I like Federer. When I went on 606 the loud noises were Wise_Analysis, Impartial Lion, chetanpv, etc. Didn't put me off, in fact I enjoyed the debate.

Frankly if people don't want to argue what do they want to do? There are only so many threads that can be sustained talking about how thrilling and wonderful it all is. Tennis is a personality driven game that is bound to divide, not one where everyone agrees what splendid chaps they all are, and how they all play equally wonderful and different games but it's all so equally valid. I started an ironic thread to mimic that alternative reality and within a page people had decided to argue.

As for Socal, well he was more than happy to spam the whole board up with Djokovic worshipping threads and if he got upset with me because his pulled his leg mercilessly for his Fognini nonsense then poor show him I say.

sportslover wrote:

Tenez wrote:I dont want to hear about those people who threaten leaving because someone expresses a view, biased or not! Those who can't take a bit of wumming or arguing about their player are often as biased if not more. PLease just go silently...or ignore.

Look at sportlover, I am told he is a member at MTL but is dead bored over there and come here to get a fight with the anti-Murray.

I don't even want to express my honest views about Murray cause whatever negative I say will be blown out and I'll end up as a Murray hater, regardless.

Says the poster previously banned on different forums and who along with bogbrush manage to rid v2 of most of the Nadal fans- you must be proud!

And if you want to use my name get your facts right before posting - as for MTL I think I have posted around half a dozen times in the last three or four months - I do have a life away from "Tennis Forums"

YI Man - Create a special forum only for Tenez and you may get back some of those that have left v2.

Oh grow up sl, what got rid of the Nadal fans was Djokovic - they were more than happy when their pin up boy was winning it all but left in droves once he was battered at Wimbledon.
v2 even gave them a special room and I didn't invade that, so what excuse did they have for leaving? Most of them never came on the general forum anyway.
What they couldn't handle was loading up a forum where people were telling it as it had become with Nadal. They wanted one to concentrate on what a lovely smile he has, so I hope they're happy wherever they are.

bogbrush wrote:If people can't engage in a discussion and cannot handle comments expressed in clear English without abuse, just because they undermine the achievements of their favourite player, then they have no place in front of a keyboard.

It really is time that people stopped being such complete tarts about what constitutes acceptable debate.

I think Murray has done very well but if someone else wants to belittle his achievements then I say that's up to them and perfectly fair enough. Prove them wrong.

Well done BB. You manage in two paragraphs to contradict yourself. In the first you mention 'without abuse' then in the second you call posters who have a different point of view about what is acceptable debate 'complete tarts'. IMHO that's abuse.

In fairness to CC, I have split these posts off his Andy thread.
Can we try and come to some kind of solution because the way the section is headed, there wont be many posters left. And I for one dont want that to happen.

We have already seen members leave, some now prefer to post elsewhere and only post here very rarely. Is this what we want?

Tenez wrote:The difference between you and me SL, is that I contribute to many threads with many people joining and debating about tennis and its many facets and players.

You essentially come here to have a go at the anti-murray ad bring hardly anything constructive about tennis, not even about Murray.

No the difference is that you play the same "old gramophone record" on most of your posts which eventually becomes boring, so much so that a respected posters like lydian leave ( although I do see that he has come back).

As for writing anything about Murray if this thread is an example of what happens then you may understand why I don't waste my time!

Y I Man wrote:Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

someone say me name?

constructive criticism is fine. mindless player bashing isn't. Saying "Murray only beats the best in the world when they aren't trying" without backing it up with any evidence falls in the latter category in my (most humble) opinion.

It's completely false to say the Nadal fans left because Nadal lost Wimbledon by the way.

To answer that question we have to answer other questions;

* who has left?
* where did they go, and why?
* do you want to be like the forum they are now in?

It's your place, you decide YI Man.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Y I Man wrote:Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

someone say me name?

constructive criticism is fine. mindless player bashing isn't. Saying "Murray only beats the best in the world when they aren't trying" without backing it up with any evidence falls in the latter category in my (most humble) opinion.

It's completely false to say the Nadal fans left because Nadal lost Wimbledon by the way.

Would you "back that up with evidence", because they sure as Hell all left at that point?

EDIT: I don't subscribe to that view on Murray, but what if that comment is shorthand for "Murray has a great record against some of the top 4 players outside of Slams but an apalling one inside them. Maybe this indicates that he only beats them when they aren't really trying"? Isn't it a point of view that's worth considering?

bogbrush wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Y I Man wrote:Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

someone say me name?

constructive criticism is fine. mindless player bashing isn't. Saying "Murray only beats the best in the world when they aren't trying" without backing it up with any evidence falls in the latter category in my (most humble) opinion.

It's completely false to say the Nadal fans left because Nadal lost Wimbledon by the way.

Would you "back that up with evidence", because they sure as Hell all left at that point?

Sure, they left because after Wimbledon all the Nadal haters/Nole lovers went and invaded their fan thread to gloat and insult Rafa, and it became too much. They left because of the reaction to Wimbledon, not because of Wimbledon itself.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Y I Man wrote:Would you view Socal, Tom, Sol & M4C in that bracket BB, cos I dont.

someone say me name?

constructive criticism is fine. mindless player bashing isn't. Saying "Murray only beats the best in the world when they aren't trying" without backing it up with any evidence falls in the latter category in my (most humble) opinion.

It's completely false to say the Nadal fans left because Nadal lost Wimbledon by the way.

Would you "back that up with evidence", because they sure as Hell all left at that point?

Sure, they left because after Wimbledon all the Nadal haters/Nole lovers went and invaded their fan thread to gloat and insult Rafa, and it became too much. They left because of the reaction to Wimbledon, not because of Wimbledon itself.

Would you like to back that up with evidence?

is this going anywhere? what would be acceptable evidence in your eyes BB? It's what they told me basically, I was away at the time (hiking trip).

Anyway, in response to your questions

* who has left?
The rafa fans, socal, quite a few regular posters like LK, Solerina, Jubba etc. don't post much if at all on here anymore.

* where did they go, and why?
no idea where most of them went.

* do you want to be like the forum they are now in?
I want the forum to be a place where we can discuss tennis without needing to insult one another and bash players midlessly for no reason other than they repeadtedly beat our favourite player.

bogbrush wrote:To answer that question we have to answer other questions;

* who has left?
* where did they go, and why?
* do you want to be like the forum they are now in?

It's your place, you decide YI Man.

And I don;t think those guys left because of some posters. 606 would have closed 6 years ago if so-called wums were scaring posters off. Yet, it was where you had the best discussions and v2, in my view, can only dream of becoming as popular with a wide array of views and personalities.

I am not convinced anyone has left because of other posters. However, some may leave if they can't express their views openly. So far I don't mind not posting about Murray but if I have to be careful when posting about Nadal, Djokovic, Dolgo, Monfils or Federer cause some are over-sensitive about their players, then I'll certainly go to....or I'll even have the pleasure of being kicked in the process.

anyway must dash, catch you later.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:is this going anywhere? what would be acceptable evidence in your eyes BB? It's what they told me basically, I was away at the time (hiking trip).

They woudl not tell you they left because Nadal lost WImbledon, would they? And don't you think they would have been too happy to parade Nadal's victory here in our face had he won his 3rd Wimbledon? And by teh way, I can see one has already returned!

If only posters could be reasonable to each other then this section would get along fine.

I have always said that there is a very distinct line between voicing an opinion and expressing malevolence.

I don't think anyone here would want their opinion to be censored or would not want to listen to another's point of view, but there are posters, who either inadvertently or purposely blur the distinction and some who continually plug their hatred of a player by spamming the boards with their vitriol.

There's no smoke without fire and all it takes is a spark and we know what happens from there on in.

Why can't we all just try to get along and appreciate the variety of opinions on here. Reasonable articles with temperate replies.

90% of posters in the tennis section contribute good and bad stuff, its the exceptionally bad stuff that clogs the boards and makes posting here like running underwater through treacle.

The problem for persistent posters who write such scathing posts, continually about a player, have difficulty in putting their normal thoughts down on paper about other subject matter because of their previous. Thats their fault, not ours and as a result they will have to learn not to bite the hand that feeds them and expect handouts after that.

Once bitten, twice shy, but I have had the strange experience of being in a position to allow previous 606 members on here and give them a clean slate. A few have reverted to old habits. Its a shame, they had their chance but there is still time to revert to something more tenable if they try to understand the tenet of this forum. Its in the rules....."Respect your fellow poster"..... and that means what you write and how you reply. If you think about it, really think about it, its a good rule and a rule we should all participate in if we want this section to survive.

Anarchy is not a good religion to have on a public forum.

this is becoming ridiculous imho.....YI you just can't give in to people threatening to leave.....it has got to the point now where I wanted to contribute to the Basel thread with a prediction about who I think might do well, fears for Djokovic etc but quite frankly I just don't see the point because I am going to upset someone clearly!

I am sorry but grown-ups not teenagers with posters and crushers talking about being 'thin skinned' - please

What is the nature of most forums - variety! There is a very easy way to deal with anyone someone thinks is wumming - ignore - I guarantee that will get rid of the problem quicker than anything if you do have a problem. the trouble is some posters raison d'etre is just to complain.

Some posters only come on here to write the same complaint about the forum over and over again - but do pander to them YI Man - they are obviously the life blood of the place and contribute hugely to the vitality. The fact is the best and busiest day on here was Friday when a lot of brilliant posters started great threads and you had a variety of responses.

I am sick of seeing Federer fans being blamed for everything. On 606, Jewel, U_E et al were rabidly anti Fed on a daily basis - it is telling that Fed fans on this forum have even cited some of the witty 'shanky' posts about being some of the funniest and most inventive on 606. Perhaps we are less 'thin skinned' or a little more pragmatic about the nature of forums?

I should add, please could all the posts that have apparently caused huge offence in the last few days be highlighted onto one thread YI Man and give the said posters either the chance to put in a less contentious way or to give all posters a chance to vote as to whether they think the post is offensive or not.

This place is like a witch hunt sometimes - and I can sense that is the way we are rapidly heading again.

Anit Nadal posters will swarm this place when he starts to lose more and more.
V2 is doing better in terms of participation anyway. There is not anything big going on which can attract posters to the forum.
Who knows that socal or social is here with some other pseudo. And why to worry about posters leaving as new posters will always be joining.
COmeth ATP finals this place will be of WUMS like me

Im not giving in to anyone TP.
I just want the section to get along. And its not a case of a couple threatening to leave. About 15 members already have left. (not including the Rafa ladies)

I think some clarification is required.

The Nadal fans. Now I looked through the posts at my time as a mod and I can't find anywhere where Tenez or BB for that matter 'abused' Nadal.

I was flooded with with e-mails to ban them, I tried to reason with them like I did with Tenez and that was implore to use logic to debate and not get so heated or personal. Like I have said numerous times, sometimes compromise is lacking. You cannot get someone to change their perspective or views if that is one they hold by belief. I haven't seen accusations of drug cheating, apart from that dope that accused Djokovic of being a drug cheat when he bashed Nadal in Rome.

People who are 'Wum' hunters, at times do not help themselves by 'baiting' those they know who will state their opinions and then bash them for it. This in some cases can be bullying. Whether that is the intent or not, you are lighting the fuse and then wanting to cry assault when it blows up in your face.

Posters like Tenez or BB are not 'mindless' player bashers. I think most posters would be lying if they said that they haven't found some of their views 'interesting and intriguing' they don't always comment about Nadal which should also be noted.

What pi$$es me off more than anything, is people who 'move' goalposts on a debate they are 'losing' even though debating isn't about right or wrong or winning, or those posters that claim 'fact' and don't provide it and then complain about the lack of freedom to speech.

Why has the Tennis Section descended into chaos? Because people are fed up with not being able to debate sensibly without someone bringing the thread down. Yes I have insulted posters and yes been unpleasant. Thats because I find the posters and the posts somewhat unpleasant viewing.

Socal can be sensible if he isn't trying to prove that a secret soceity run by Fognini and the Slam Tournaments are trying to take control of the world.

Some posters are excellent. Laverfan, lydian, time please, Calder 106, Tenez, BB, emancipator, Caledonian Craig, MFC, BITF, Julius, P4S, LM I could go on. Other posters bring enthusiasm to the forum like yummy, NITB, Rafateers. Everyone who is anyone brings something different and thats what makes a forum 'variety'

I say get rid of the local village idiots such as Super D Boon, Djoker, erladeen because such stupid and petulant views ruin a forum where posters want to enjoy debate and not subject their time to such retards!

legendkillar wrote: I haven't seen accusations of drug cheating, apart from that dope...

I hope that pun was intentional!

Y I Man wrote:Im not giving in to anyone TP.
I just want the section to get along. And its not a case of a couple threatening to leave. About 15 members already have left. (not including the Rafa ladies)

Did you look at theRafateers forum YI Man - if you did, you will have noticed the variety of names given to Djokovic, and the general wishing of ill in his direction before every match - something that would obviously not be tolerated here. You want another reason they left??? You will also probably have noticed their preoccupation with certain posters on here and how they came across on a regular basis to read what was written here and then would 'bitch' about the posters in the safety of their little area. They take everything terribly personally - mostly Novak having the nerve to beat Rafa. Murray fans are tolerated because they feel their boy is so superior - twill not be such a happy little relationship if AM can manage to beat Rafa on a regular basis next year, but for the moment, it's just dandy.

It sounds like I have been stalking them, but one trip was enough - the spite and hypocrisy on some threads is quite illuminating.

How is the Tennis section progressing compared to say:
a) The Football section
b) The Horse Racing section
c) The Boxing section
d) The Cycling section.

Is this type of discussion being had in any of the other sections? How do you know that about 15 members have already left (not including ...)? Will they return during the Australian Open or Wimbledon etc.

Those 15 members that "left", were they only interested in the Tennis - wasn't there other sections of this forum that might have also interested them. One thing I am a little disappointed with is the lack of contributers in the cycling section - there used to be a healthy group over on 606, but I think they all went over to a specialist single sport forum or perhaps many have dispersed.

I have noticed that sometimes the moderators themselves have partly been the cause of members leaving - they have sometimes been perceived as heavy handed or riding rough-shod over the feelings and wishes of particular members. Of course most of the times moderators have been brilliant and we all recognise the time and effort you have all put into this site in getting it to work. It is not easy but don't expect continued growth, there will be downturns as well as upturns.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillar wrote: I haven't seen accusations of drug cheating, apart from that dope...

I hope that pun was intentional!

It was. I thought I would be cheeky.

What happened in the past, happened in the past TP. What I am concerned about is the present and now. As mentioned, not including the Rafa ladies, about 15 members have recently left and joined forums elsewhere. I dont want anyone else to leave. I just want everyone to get along.

Or am I wasting my time in trying to play peacemaker? Is this something that will always happen? Should I just leave things until there is one side left?

How do you know that about 15 members have already left (not including ...)?

Because I have been on the other forums they have left v2 to go to and I have talked to them.

"anarchy", "smoke", "fire", "malevolence", "scathing posts"...??????


OUahh!! I didn't realise.

I personally only see views more or less eloquently expressed printed in dark blue against a blue background. I must have missed someting...besides a few whinging comments...of course.

As NiTB says, one needs a 'thicker' skin coat, to participate on forums. I have no problems with players being dissed.

DiiNh came out, all fire and brimstone, but a gentle reminder to talk positively, seems to have helped a course correction and some reasoned statements.

Lydian, who threatened to leave, is back, which I consider a positive development.

YI... posters may take breaks (apart from your conversations with those who have 'left' v2).

BTW, I have seen worse Andy bashers then SDB, et al.

Y I Man wrote:What happened in the past, happened in the past TP. What I am concerned about is the present and now. As mentioned, not including the Rafa ladies, about 15 members have recently left and joined forums elsewhere. I dont want anyone else to leave. I just want everyone to get along.

Or am I wasting my time in trying to play peacemaker? Is this something that will always happen? Should I just leave things until there is one side

left?

You're not wasting your time YI Man, and I really appreciate the fantastic forum and the work you have put in, that's what makes me so mad about certain posters coming up with the same old 'it's no better than 606' - well why did you waste so much of your life on the former then? and 'you need to stop this'. I ask you to look at the posters who regularly do this and then look at the number of threads they have started and how much they contribute to other's threads - unfortunately I think you will find that the latter is in inverse proportion to their frequent, and monotonous complaints!

Look how brilliant Friday was - who made that happen? Some of the posters that the whingers whinge about the most.

It is up to everyone to make this place full of conversation and fun, but sometimes I feel like the thought police is roaming the boards waiting to strike. I can ignore any wumming I don't like easily - I just ignore - it's extraordinary that you have to spell this out to adults.

But please enough of the Rafateers once and for all - they were not chased from here at all, they wanted a place to vent their spleen on Djokovic and they can do that safely away from other eyes. I think they are all grown ups and not hormonal teenagers, but you would be forgiven for wondering sometimes!

One thing I wouldn't want to happen is for YI Man to get dispirited because in general he has been absolutely brilliant arranging all the player Q&A's etc etc.

Maybe consideration needs to be given in trying to ensure a steady joining rate of new members - because there will always be "reasons" for people to leave from time to time, that is in any forum or organisation there will be a natural "wastage" rate (that will vary). So the question is what are the joining rate figures like and what can be done about it if they are lower than desired

time please wrote: I ask you to look at the posters who regularly do this and then look at the number of threads they have started and how much they contribute to other's threads - unfortunately I think you will find that the latter is in inverse proportion to their frequent, and monotonous complaints!
Look how brilliant Friday was - who made that happen? Some of the posters that the whingers whinge about the most.

It is up to everyone to make this place full of conversation and fun, but sometimes I feel like the thought police is roaming the boards waiting to strike. I can ignore any wumming I don't like easily - I just ignore - it's extraordinary that you have to spell this out to adults.

But please enough of the Rafateers once and for all - they were not chased from here at all, they wanted a place to vent their spleen on Djokovic and they can do that safely away from other eyes. I think they are all grown ups and not hormonal teenagers, but you would be forgiven for wondering sometimes!

Spot on,.... like the rest of the post.

606v2 is far better than 606 used to be, but then again, it would struggle to be any worse.

In the main, 606v2 has got it right, but there are still a few rotten eggs out there.

I agree Nore - but new members will be encouraged by letting the board live. I do sympathise with you YI Man, I really do, but I don't think you should let the infrequent posters who are posting the same non-tennis complaint over and over again to be humoured like this on every occasion - it's getting to be unbearably silly.

I frequently disappear when weeks are hectic - I agree with Nore that people will come once the big tournaments begin again - but they will come to a forum that allows them to have a say. One look at some of the thought police on here is just as likely to send them spiralling towards another forum.

I think you have to trust your posters,

And to all of you that have a problem with certain posts/posters - do you enjoy the fight? If so, then put up and shut up . If you don't then try ignoring - and see if that suffocates your 'wums' quicker than anything

Since this is an open discussion there is something I would like to add which I alluded to above. It's important to recognise who the key contributers are in a given sporting section, and to attempt not to be too heavy handed on them - or at least try to recognise the view from their perspective. There was a key contributor on the Athletics section and unfortunately the heavy handed treatment he received resulted in him leaving. I am not laying blame on anyone, but the reasons behind him leaving was that he wasn't given enough slack.

Nore Staat wrote:Since this is an open discussion there is something I would like to add which I alluded to above. It's important to recognise who the key contributers are in a given sporting section, and to attempt not to be too heavy handed on them - or at least try to recognise the view from their perspective. There was a key contributor on the Athletics section and unfortunately the heavy handed treatment he received resulting in him leaving. I am not laying blame on anyone, but the reasons behind him leaving was that he wasn't given enough slack.

Is it not possible to accomodate 'thin-skinned' people on an internet forum, as we would in life?
Or does the psychology of forums (anonymity, not being in the same room, having to make assumptions about people purely from their posts etc) make this more or less impossible?

Of all the posts on this thread, can I point to one poster and say I find this kind of thing really irritating, inaccurate and bringing personal antipathy towards another poster - that is you sportslover.

I don't understand why this kind of personal vendetta goes unchallenged YI Man and why you pander to this type of poster.

Correct Julius. Now as far as I can tell no one is trying to stifle sensible and fair-minded debating/posting here. The inflammatory posts and ones that amount to groundless player bashing is not debating and not sensible posting. I admit to being a Tad thin-skinned and is why I watch where and when I post on here now. I can and do accept criticisms of Andy Murray to a point and have criticised him myself on here it is just the nonsensical posts that try to discredit him for sometimes things that he hasn't even done that bugs me and nonsense like he only wins Masters events as others aren't trying but that is another matter.

I think the term 'Thick Skinned' can be overstated. I relate to the story that NS mentioned as I witnessed what happened in that section and that is a result of logic not succeeding at it's very best.

Now one thing that 606V2 does not get credit for and I am a regular poster there is the football section. In 606 it was insult after insult and very much language you would associate on the terraces up and down the country. They have a 'mutual' respect.

Any UK forum will have posters who lean to the players who represent the country. Come 2012 next year, this place will be riddled with it as the Olympics stroll in.

But back to tennis. Do Andy Murray fans 'over emphasise' the achievements of Murray? On occassions yes. Some posters have the 'Slam' success is the only kind of success mentality which serves no place here. Take Marcus. New poster. Makes one post and gets ripped into by an idiot on this forum who calls himself 'neutral' Marcus admitted only just becoming a tennis fan and is subjected to moronic behaviour as this? Again thick skin is not the answer. A kick in the nuts to the poster who treated him like that was what was needed so I ripped into him and he is the one calling fowl??

Compare Marcus to someone like Super D Boon who wants to annoy posters who suport Murray. Then we get the 'go easy' on him? Where was the support for general tennis fan in Marcus?

I think anyone supported SDB over Marcus needs to look at themselves before casting judgment on others!

One irony was that one of the reasons why the Rafateers left was because of the actions/comments of the Moderators on the Rafateer fan thread. A subtlety that can be lost on those unfamiliar with what is happening at the coal face so to speak. Of course this wasn't the sole reason but it was a significant contributary factor.

I have also seen a few members leave* because of misinterpreted comments between otherwise reasonable members. This can happen on any forum but I did see it happen here early in the lifetime of 606v2. I put it down as a failure to be aware of the others persons valid different perspective and situation.

* They probably would have left anyway.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Correct Julius. Now as far as I can tell no one is trying to stifle sensible and fair-minded debating/posting here. The inflammatory posts and ones that amount to groundless player bashing is not debating and not sensible posting. I admit to being a Tad thin-skinned and is why I watch where and when I post on here now. I can and do accept criticisms of Andy Murray to a point and have criticised him myself on here it is just the nonsensical posts that try to discredit him for sometimes things that he hasn't even done that bugs me and nonsense like he only wins Masters events as others aren't trying but that is another matter.

You're not trying to stifle opinion CC - but you are one of the people who contribute regularly and generously on here. I don't think everyone is reacting like you.

There will always be poster bashing to a greater or lesser degree and it does depend on your point of view sometimes and for a more neutral fan of one particular player it sometimes seems hyper sensitive of others to get so worked up over a pov. I know the Federer fans on here seem to get accused of everything, but I can assure you that as a Fed fan we were as hardened as Murray fans to endless bashing. At least the hurling of abuse towards Murray was usually on at slams, for a Fed fan it was a daily occurrence. Okay things change, because TMF is an old geezer and it is Rafa who is looking a little more vulnerable. Is it irritating, well of course it is, but I am afraid that you will get the good with the bad on all forums. Ignoring the worst is the best policy and the most effective one at the same time, unless you enjoy with conversing and teasing a Jewel, which we all did on occasions.

That is not to say that I think that wumming is necessary, but it is sometimes a grey area. I do know that ignoring a poster that you feel is out to post to just get a reaction will solve the problem quite quickly. If a poster is saying something contentious but without wishing to wind up, then I think we all have to grow up and accept that other people have differing views.

CaledonianCraig wrote:.....and ones that amount to groundless player bashing is not debating and not sensible posting.

That's your perception. Others might see some ground to it.

So if you disagree with the "groundless" player bashing just say so or ignore. A "groundless player's praise" can be annoying too. I am exposed to posters and fans praising a player purely based on his ranking. Because he is number one, 2 or 3, the player must have all the qualities in the world and be above criticism. No. This is why forums exist, to argue....but the good thing about the internet is that we are always only a click away to read something else on the net like the news or even read someone else's views.

I hardly ever agreed with SA but never did I want him out. Very easy to glance to the next post.....if I wanted to.