James Haskell to move to Otago Highlanders next season

Interesting news this morning that Haskell is to further increase his self inflicted international exile by playing in the Super 15 next year.

Clearly playing for England is no longer a priority....

Will make him a better player no doubt. Good signing for the Highlanders, they're looking quite strong

This is exactly the type of crodd-fertilization of skills and experiences which NH players need. Good for Haskell, Good for Otago.

Apparently cost effective too. A report I heard today said he was the 29th or 30th pick and basically gets the standard low retainer. It gives them more depth and experience, with out hindering their development. Good all round.

He always said he was going to play in Japan and then hopefully S15 so the only real news is the team he's playing for. Hope he gets a good number of games as it can only improve him as a player.

tomathy wrote:He always said he was going to play in Japan and then hopefully S15 so the only real news is the team he's playing for. Hope he gets a good number of games as it can only improve him as a player.

Well, if he is playing in Dunedin, he won't be passing time on a nice sunny beach.

There is the same thread running on the international board. I agree, think its a good move for Haskell.

So he has ruled himself out of selection for a while...when exactly does the S15 finish?

He has pretty much turned his back on the england shirt for a while, but he will hopefully be a very class player. How old is Haskell?
He's been around for what 4 years or so? Must have around 40 caps.

He has signed a deal to play for Wasps for the 2012-13 season so will be back in time for the 2012 AI selection.

"He has signed a deal to play for Wasps for the 2012-13 season so will be back in time for the 2012 AI selection.."

But i wonder if the back row will have been nailed down by then.....

Can u feel the De-ja-vu sam....

I've almost given up caring at the moment, just hope they stop stealing some many Tigers players so we can win some silverware this season.

What's the betting the backrow for the 6N is Croft, Worsley, Easter and for the AIs Croft, Haskell, Easter.

"Croft, Worsley, Easter"

You know....ill get slated but if Croft played the 7 role...that would have more balance than many of the recent back rows...

Sadly I think we'll still see Easter around the team.

I genuinely think Easter is better suited for England and is more useful than Croft is right now.. what you need right now is solidity and someone to make the hard yards and do the dirty work and Easter offers some of that.

Great news for Haskell and England rugby well done !! He is only 26 and has already amassed 40 odd caps, over the last 3 years i think i read somewhere he has played more games in an england shirt than any other player. His move to Japan will allow his body to recover over the next few months as they play less games when all the other world cup players are falling apart from playing rugby solidly for almost 2 years.

A season in new zealand could really be the making of him, playing week in and week out against mccaw, read, spies, broussow, burger, kaino, smith, pocock etc etc, then he returns to england with loads of time to make the lions and the next world cup.

Everyone jumps on the lets hate haskell band wagon but for me he was great in the world cup and if he can nail down the 8 shirt at club level then he is the only genuine international class number 8 england have going forward.

Don't think you can call him an international class number 8 when he struggles to control the ball at the base of a scrum. He is an established utility backrow option but isn't a specialist in any of the three positions.

You know....ill get slated but if Croft played the 7 role...that would have more balance than many of the recent back rows... .

I still hold with the idea that Robshaw and Croft should be partnered on the flanks. Robshaw does the tight tackling thing in a Worsley Mrk 2.0 role and Croft might get to do what he does best and chase kicks, support players, get in the faces of the opposition 10 and generally use his speed and size to disurpt and support. It's akin to the flanking options we had in RWC 2007 when Corry did a lot of the tight work from 6 allowing Moody the freedom to be a full blown menace.

I agree he isn't a genuine 8 yet but if he nails down the 8 shirt at club level then he is our best option going forward considering the lack of talent we have in that possition, and please people dont list narraway, crane, guest etc.. because when they aren't injured they rarely shine in the AP.(Fearns and Vunipola have some potential)

As far as Robshaw he's a 6, just like croft, wood, johnson. We need to be looking at the likes of young Wallace at harlequins and ........, nope i guess just wallace ! (Saull is turning out to be a bit pants)....maybe mercer at bath.

sirtidychris wrote:I agree he isn't a genuine 8 yet but if he nails down the 8 shirt at club level then he is our best option going forward considering the lack of talent we have in that possition, and please people dont list narraway, crane, guest etc.. because when they aren't injured they rarely shine in the AP.(Fearns and Vunipola have some potential)

As far as Robshaw he's a 6, just like croft, wood, johnson. We need to be looking at the likes of young Wallace at harlequins and ........, nope i guess just wallace ! (Saull is turning out to be a bit pants)....maybe mercer at bath.

I agree about Narraway, but Crane was often standing out for Tigers last season (I was always unsure about him but he's definitely come on in recent seasons), and Guest was picking up plenty of MOTM awards before his injury. Fearns is who I would like to see backed. Vunipola has miles to go.

The HC will tell us where Wallace is, he's done well so far this season, but that's been in a league devoid of international backrowers and that's not enough to back him for an England place. He may well need at least a full season before he is ready. Mercer, Gibson & Kvesic could be possibilities in a couple of years.

You should play Easter as your 8 to be replaced in the future with Crane. They are similar players but Crane is younger, better and more athletic. He is the right 8 for the game England play and he will give you the go forward ball you need. Robshaw should be your 6 for his work rate in the tight areas of the game, and then a fetching/link playing 7 (not sure who you have to fulfil this position, whoever puts their hand up soon). Armitage looked good I thought but he is in France now.

Croft may be the fastest flanker around, a great lineout operator and a great supporting player, but really does he get anywhere near the top 6s in the world? I don't think he does. Ferris/SOB, Kaino, Elsom/Higginbotham, Smith/Burger, Lydiate etc etc.. You need to play Robshaw at 6.

I still say Croft, Wood and Robshaw should be the way to go.

flankertye wrote:I still say Croft, Wood and Robshaw should be the way to go.

In what way is playing three blindside flankers going to help the problem with balance?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_union/3908326/Harlequins-Chris-Robshaw-given-Six-Nations-backing.html

evidently i'm not the only one who wants him to play for England!

I see Robshaw as more of a 7, Wood has played some rugby at 8 and we don't have any quality 8's left in england!

Oh my lord.... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_union/3908324/Ospreys-are-to-ban-players-from-having-fake-tans.html

Jordan Crane is a quality 8. When he returns he should be starting. Robshaw is an amazing blindside flanker, not so much at openside. An openside will come through if you are patient. If balance in the backrow is what you want, you must play the right players in the right positions. Otherwise England will be trying to fit in all the flashy players and be left with the same problem as before.

All interesting comments,However when the news broke yesterday of this appointment,I thought that he would of gone to otago to be under the coaching of Jamie Joseph.
Haskell will learn more tricks off Jamie Joseph in half an hour,as to the role of 6s and 8s, then he would get off most other coaches in a season.

Monitor the quins back row...Robshaw, Wallace and York? ...

If it works in Europe give the whole unit a go....

flankertye wrote:Oh my lord.... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_union/3908324/Ospreys-are-to-ban-players-from-having-fake-tans.html

Rugby used to be a proper man's game...

In what way is playing three blindside flankers going to help the problem with balance?.

Well three is too many but just because a player plays 6 regularly doesn't mean that they won't work with another blindside. Ireland for example combine Ferris and SOB who are both blindsides. SOB sometimes plays 7 for Leinster but Robshaw sometimes plays 7 for Quinns. In the last two RWC before this one we had combinations of Hill, Back, Dayglo (two 7s and an 8) and Corry, Moody, Easter (a 6.5 and two 8s). We got to the final in both of those (note the thrashing at the hands of SA was taken without that backrow unit). The brilliant 6 and player of the tournament Theirry Dusatoir has also played 7 for France. It all depends on the partnership and a combination of Robshaw and Croft could work. Robshaw's work rate in the tight should free up Croft to do what he does best which is get round the park.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

In what way is playing three blindside flankers going to help the problem with balance?.

Well three is too many but just because a player plays 6 regularly doesn't mean that they won't work with another blindside. Ireland for example combine Ferris and SOB who are both blindsides. SOB sometimes plays 7 for Leinster but Robshaw sometimes plays 7 for Quinns. In the last two RWC before this one we had combinations of Hill, Back, Dayglo (two 7s and an 8) and Corry, Moody, Easter (a 6.5 and two 8s). We got to the final in both of those (note the thrashing at the hands of SA was taken without that backrow unit). The brilliant 6 and player of the tournament Theirry Dusatoir has also played 7 for France. It all depends on the partnership and a combination of Robshaw and Croft could work. Robshaw's work rate in the tight should free up Croft to do what he does best which is get round the park.

SOB is not nearly as effective at 7, which all Leinster and Ireland fans know. He is a 6, but our problem is we don't have any 7s coming through right now so he is filling in. It is unfortunate, he cannot play the game he wishes to play there. Robshaw isn't as good at 7, he is a 6 in the mould of Hill (both can do a job at 7, but they both were best as the hard working 6s). They are best with an openside similar to Back, Pocock, etc etc. In France they play with a left/right system, so actually Dusautoir and his skillset is more akin to an openside even though he wears 6, and whoever plays 7 would play like a typical blindside. A bit similar to South Africa.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

In what way is playing three blindside flankers going to help the problem with balance?.

Well three is too many but just because a player plays 6 regularly doesn't mean that they won't work with another blindside. Ireland for example combine Ferris and SOB who are both blindsides. SOB sometimes plays 7 for Leinster but Robshaw sometimes plays 7 for Quinns. In the last two RWC before this one we had combinations of Hill, Back, Dayglo (two 7s and an 8) and Corry, Moody, Easter (a 6.5 and two 8s). We got to the final in both of those (note the thrashing at the hands of SA was taken without that backrow unit). The brilliant 6 and player of the tournament Theirry Dusatoir has also played 7 for France. It all depends on the partnership and a combination of Robshaw and Croft could work. Robshaw's work rate in the tight should free up Croft to do what he does best which is get round the park.

SOB is not nearly as effective at 7, which all Leinster and Ireland fans know. He is a 6, but our problem is we don't have any 7s coming through right now so he is filling in. It is unfortunate, he cannot play the game he wishes to play there. Robshaw isn't as good at 7, he is a 6 in the mould of Hill (both can do a job at 7, but they both were best as the hard working 6s). They are best with an openside similar to Back, Pocock, etc etc. In France they play with a left/right system, so actually Dusautoir and his skillset is more akin to an openside even though he wears 6, and whoever plays 7 would play like a typical blindside. A bit similar to South Africa.

Agree with a lot of that, but the emergence of Brussow for South Africa has meant that he is now a dedicated openside, rather than them plaing a left/right system. Certainly true in the past though.

Robshaw isn't as good at 7, he is a 6 in the mould of Hill (both can do a job at 7, but they both were best as the hard working 6s)

Hill played 7 and was moved by England to 6 as it was recognised that Backie was a top class 7 and so England had two hard working fetchers in the backrow. From what I saw of Quinns last season Robshaw played exactly the same game whether at 6 or 7, he just carried on tackling and playing his game in the tight exchanges. England don't have a fetcher, Seymour at Sale or Armitage at Toulon are the only fetchers with an experience. Better to utilise a flanker that likes the wider game and pair him with a flanker who loves the tight?

But its all about player skills and the style of the team.

England had two players quite happy to bury and fight for every ball...Back and Hill. Emphasis is on winning the ball then allowing the monstrous pack to drive it on....and have big boys like Tindall and Cohen crashing through.

This current England team have a weak underbelly in its pack (in my opinion) eg.. 5 and 6 are traditionally powerhouses of the team...but in Croft and Lawes we have more athletic players....
We also have fewer players who can crash it up the middle at pace....though bring in Barritt and suddenly the centres look quite tasty.

Whilst Wallace, Nuttal etc etc is being touted etc until they are really proven i think the best option for 7 at present is Wood. This because he has the skill set required to really be a pest at the break down...and loves the tough close quarter stuff.

The bottom line though is that it all comes down to HOW the England mgnt wish to play the game.

The way England have been playing at the breakdown over the last few months you could do well worse than having Robshaw/Wood/Easter, at least you'd be bulling teams and competing in the contact area.

Theres a plethora of options available to England, Haskell has been the most impressive performer in the back row over the last few months.

I think England need to really nail their trouble at the breakdown, and that might mean playing 6's with an 8. Theres no 7's/fetchers (bar armitage) ready for international rugby, although, some said Warburton wasnt ready......

Sorry, I should have been more clear. France play the left/right system, but SA play with their 6 shirt as the openside, and their 7 shirt as the blindside. I meant it is sort of similar in that neither team plays the traditional 6 blindside and 7 openside. Therefore, at 6 both Dusautoir and Brussouw are the opensides of the team.

For England, I know that Hill started as a 7, but as part of the best backrow in the world in 2003 he was a 6. That is where he played his best rugby. I believe Robshaw does as well. Or maybe it is that they both play the same game in either position, but as a 6 paired with a proper openside the backrow as a whole has better balance and play a much better game.

I think unless you play a proper openside, blindside, and 8 then you are just going to have the same problems with balance.

Or perhaps take a leaf out of Frances book and have Robshaw or a flanker like him in there and rather then compete so much stand off of the ruck and make sure the defence is ready to smash the opposition back, combine that with the new turning a tackle into a maul tactic and two hard tackling centres like Barrit and Tuilagi and it's feasable that you wouldn't need to have a ground hog in the team.

Could the coaches impliment this though?

I personally think England should resort to playing a traditional six like Robshaw, who they can rely upon to make the hard yards, tackle their heart out e.t.c whilst Robshaw is very much a modern blindside who can do a brilliant job at openside, he may lack a yard of pace - but this is made up by his work-rate and link-play.

Maybe playing Robshaw at blindside with either Wood/Croft at openside would be the best option, that way we could utilise their pace at 7 and would be able to play their more natural game.

A Croft/Wood partnership on the flanks would be too similar, you need a player like Robshaw in there to help keep the balance. So therefore I would keep only pick one out of Croft and Wood in the starting XV.

At no.8 - it is a real shame Haskell has gone abroad, but let's hope he comes back a better player and a more complete no.8 - I would love to see a combination of Croft/Robshaw/Haskell or Robshaw/Wood/Haskell taking on the best international back row's of world rugby.

However I feel England unless under a new coaching team may keep Easter at 8 until Haskell gets back. However I'd love England to have a look at players such as Phil Dowson (last chance), Luke Narraway (could he make an international 8) Tom Guest (when he get's back from injury)

GeordieFalcon wrote:Monitor the quins back row...Robshaw, Wallace and York? ...

If it works in Europe give the whole unit a go....

It was Robshaw, Wallace and Easter that came off sufficiently second best last weekend as to prompt complaints about the ref by Conor O'Shea - on that basis, perhaps better to monitor the Chiefs back row of Scaysbrook, Johnson and Baxter?

Well then a back row containing 2/3's of that is concerning in consideration for England....

Or perhaps take a leaf out of Frances book and have Robshaw or a flanker like him in there and rather then compete so much stand off of the ruck and make sure the defence is ready to smash the opposition back, combine that with the new turning a tackle into a maul tactic and two hard tackling centres like Barrit and Tuilagi and it's feasable that you wouldn't need to have a ground hog in the team.

Sarries have come up with some pretty innovative ways of challenging at the breakdown and they have a backrow of Brown, Burger and Joubert. No ground hog and they are all pretty uniform in being hard, athletic and agressive. They utilise the maul technique big hits and attack in carefully organised numbers smashing the breakdown and driving over the ball. A real thorn in the side when combined with THAT defence. I've said it before and I'll say it again Edwards will be expensive and has mixed results, Gustard should in theory be cheaper and has done excellent things with Sarries.

We'll probably end up going for the ex France defence coach.

Dave Ellis been released then? He's been working with France and offering free lance help to other clubs (including English ones) for years. He was linked with a move to Tigers a few years ago and that position has never been filled at Welford Road.

I'm sure I remember his contract was up after the WC. He did an interview stating he'd like to coach the England teams defence post WC so I guess he wont be hanging about.

Oddly I too thought Tigers may try to snaffle him, don't know why but he seems just the right type of coach for Leicester.

Well the French defence was very good in the WC...

BUt then Sarries defence has been very strong aswell.

So either way would be good options.

Yes, Dave Ellis' contract was due to finish post WC and he's said he'd love to work with England. I think he'd be a great choice, especially given how disciplined France have been at the breakdown and how much of a problem that has been for us.