Leinster v Munster; Post Match Thoughts and Looking Ahead

Firstly congratulations to Jonny Sexton for his good display from the kicking tee. I was hoping to see Munster slow down the ball, maybe give away a penalty or two and give Sexton a few tough kicks. However ironically despite perceptions of him being a poor place kicker, it was his boot that saw victory for the boys in blue.

I was very impressed by Munsters defence. They managed to stop what I considered to be two absolutely certain tries and fronted up well against the ball carrying of Sean O’Brien. I think that Keith Earls was a big loss and that Leinster did a good job of rattling Conor Murray early on. Munster’s scrum held up surprisingly well. If Botha can have the scrum doing in every match he plays he’s been a good signing. If he can teach Archer to do the same, he’s worth his weight in gold. To me the thought of Munster holding Leinster without any tries for the last two games, while getting two penalty tries from scrums is ironic in the extreme. Rather than answer my questions, this game has confused me more about who is actually Munster’s best XV for next week with question marks over prop, second row, flanker, number eight, centre and winger.

Leinster made the right call to start with Isaac Boss at 9 and with Leinster bossing the breakdown he was a mild threat around the fringes. Sean O’Brien carried well throughout the match and they will have been pleased to have earned parity in the lineout up against three Rugby World Cup second rows. Fergus McFadden at 13 simply didn’t work, I think in hindsight a simple case of square pegs for square holes would have worked. With Eoin O’Malley who did well against Clermont last year parked on the bench they had the option to do so.

Munster’s centres were ineffective in attack for much of the match. Lifeimi Mafi’s defensive display will have earned him his place against Northampton and I’d be inclined to pair him with Danny Barnes who did well from the wing when he came on, coming infield looking for the ball and solid in defence. To be fair to outside backs it wasn’t a night for them. Doug Howlett was anonymous for much of the match as was Rob Kearney at fullback for Leinster.

What I found most peculiar while watching the game, was how conscious I was of next week’s Heineken Cup match. The game IMO lacked the intensity of previous Munster v Leinster fixtures, with both teams essentially being forced to treat this game as a trial due to lack of gametime. I suspect the encounter in Thomond Park to be a much more heated affair. It spoke volumes that a Magners League Champions v Heineken Cup Champions grudge match would be relegated to a Friday night kick off.

Both teams will have taken heart from the positives but they both have big work to do ahead of their respective Heineken Cup matches next week.

would be relegated to a Friday night kick off, covered not by RTE Television with their expert panel but instead by TG4.

Friday night is prime TV viewing time. TG4 have put more money in I believe that RTE.

Cheers for that Stag.

Disappointed in McFadden but again it is a new-ish position for him. I think he will be a wasted talent unless he stops being seen as Leinsters utility player. Unfortunately BOD needs wrapped in cotton wool and he is the obvious choice to replace him.

Really Munsty. I didn't know. Looks very amatuerish to me. I'd have thought Saturday afternoon is price time.

From a Munster pov here are a couple of things.

Backrow for next week must be coughlan, leamy and pom. Much as i am a fan of doc i would start poc and dr in the second row.

I was impressed with chambers defence and when he runs hard and straight he looks good. Having said that barnes looked very good. But bad mark for mcgahan for not giving zebo a shot.

Also tol looks fit and was zipping around. Would be my preference for next week.

Agree that the game lacked intensity. SOB was poor enough and Heaslip is going backwards at a rate of knots. Sexton was good but one thing is clear in terms of our centres. There is BOD and then everyone else is a long way back

Re tg4 you are sounding like franno giving out about it. Tg4 do a fine job. Go learn the language if you have a problem with it. One of your more childish comments

Dod I don't see why its childish. I find the RTE coverage more professional. Whether they spoke in Irish or English is not the issue.

DOD

I agree re our centres. We need to be focused on finding a pairing to fill BOD's boots as opposed to looking for one player. I thought a couple of years ago McFadden/Cave could have done it and i called for them to start together in every A international.

Not certain thats the case mind you. But Kidney will have to look at developing a partnership imo. Where that leaves BOD i dont know

Do you understand Irish?
Regardless if you think hook is a better pundit that seems a bit of a stretch.

Also it was moved to Friday by both teams to give more time before the hc games.

I've enough Irish to understand what they are saying if I concentrate on the words. Not fluent but I can understand it.

Anyway, I think we leave this issue aside. Its distracting from the main points.

On your Munster team I think I agree with it all. I'm loathe to drop Murray after 1 poor game but I wouldn't care if O'Leary started.

I would like to see Horan over Wian du Preez and I'd have Denis Hurley on the wing.

So:

Horan, Varley, Botha
Ryan, O'Connell
Leamy, Coughlan, O'Mahony
Murray/O'Leary, O'Gara
Mafi, Barnes
Hurley, Murphy, Howlett

Fogarty, du Preez, Hayes, O'Callaghan, Ronan, Murray/O'Leary, Keatley, Chambers

Fair enough on tg4...

Agree 100% on the team with some reservation on horan

I felt for a while that du Preez hasn't been cutting the mustard. Maybe Horan only looks good as opposition are tired when he comes on but he has impressed me more than du Preez since late last season.

You're being very harsh on TG4. I thought Murray did well after a poor enough start. TOL did well when he came one, he didn't take a step before passing most of the time.

From a Leinster perspective these are the questions worth asking?

- Is Schmidt placing too big an emphasis on versatility. Personally I felt he should have picked EITHER Nacewa or Kearney at 15 and EITHER Darcy or McFadden at 12. I would have though O'Malley and Carr would have suited the game better for them.

- Is Mike Ross good enough around the park. I think that Ross' stint in the international setup and with Leinster has made us all sit up and take a greater interest in scrummaging. He has made a mark despite so few caps but I just don't see him good enough around the park. I can see him being second choice by the end of next season. However he has the ability to leave as big a legacy as John Hayes with only about 30 caps.

Im gonna remove the TG4 remark. Think its only distracting from the main points.

No bother Stag, Mike Ross isn't good enough around the park we've known that for a while now, we must wonder is he worth having on the pitch for his scrummaging?

Given the lack of TH's there is no alternative

Stephen Archer and Jamie Hagan are two up and coming tight heads. Again by end of next season (i.e. Spring 2013) I see Hagan overtaking Ross at Leinster and either of these two having stepped up internationally. This season we have no choice though.

Macklin might work out aswell but who knows. Deccie Fitz looked decent last season but i cant see him being much more use than Ross around the park and he has been consigned to LH this season.

Saturday afternoon certainly isn't prime time. That is when most people are out and away from the TV over the weekend. Friday night is when most people are in front of the box.

Plus as with all rugby, most Saturday kick offs are fighting against football and you're nearly on a loser straight away.

MBTGOG wrote:

would be relegated to a Friday night kick off, covered not by RTE Television with their expert panel but instead by TG4.

Friday night is prime TV viewing time. TG4 have put more money in I believe that RTE.

A couple of things. Friday night suits Leinster better (after work etc) and it gives both teams an extra day to prepare for Heineken Cup next week.

RTE Radio had commentary by Michael Corcoran. They also had Emmet Byrne, Jackman & Alan Quinlan.

Quinny is very honest in his assessment (which probably reflects the dressing rooms they came from). Byrne & Jackman just kept making excuses for Leinster (Jackman kept referring to Leinster as 'we'). Quinlan was very critical of Munster and referred to them as 'them'. A bit surprised with Emmet Byrne though.

Quinny also said that he was a bit dubious about Botha's motivation coming to Munster, but that he thought he was impressed with him.

I was at the game and haven't watched it back yet (but shall) and I thought McFadden played pretty well. Whenever he too the ball particularly off lineouts he seemed to do really well and make good yards in contact. Didn't notice him making mistakes in defence. He seemed to have a good game from where I was.

Also while ross is good in the scrum he was very poor in the loose looked unfit at getting back in the d line and getting to pillar defence as well as getting burned by ROG far too easily IMO.

Thought Toner had another good game.

Jenno was pretty good as well and liked how Boss moved them around the park.

Hope Earls is ok, didn't look good.

Agree that it wasn't 100% intensity for a provincal derby

I thought it was a pretty poor game and reflected badly on the future for Irish rugby.. there was very little flair, very little creativity and to me it became a match defined by who took advantage of the endless penalties which were given away (Sexton did very well taking all his points, very happy with that).

However is nobody else concerned after last night? Added to the fact Ulster are also not playing very well. I just think all the provinces need to improve big time.

On a side note: Shame about Earls, hope he recovers fast! Though Barnes looked very good on the wing I thought.. possible positional switch?

Rory, when Barnes first emerged on the scene with the Munster Academy and Munster A team it was as a winger.

Agree on Toner. Dark horse for the 6 Nations squad. I think our great white hope Donnacha Ryan had a poor match.

Overall I wasn't imrpessed at all.

Ronan was a disgrace last night, absolutely terrible along with Murphy was probably the worst player on the pitch by quite a big distance.
POM and coughlan made a huge difference, suprising what playing players in their actual positions does and a backrow that has a 6 at 6 and a 8 at 8 usually looks better.

Murray was decent, made a few mistakes but for the most part passed well and was very good in defence, never thought I'd see SOB being knocked back in the tackle by a scrumhalf.

Munster look clueless in attack.

Rog v Sexton was won comfortably by Sexton who was probably motm, controlled the game very well.

Don't understand why Jennings was carrying so much when you have SOB in the same team.
Ruddock still carries too upright and it was targetted by munster who managed to stop him and get a scrum from it.

Can't agree on Toner, thought he was very disappointing, if he makes the six nations 22 we are in big trouble.

Ronan was comfortably the worst player on the pitch I agree. Didn't think Murphy was terrible though he made one idiotic knock on.

While sexton was motm was pleased with rog, had a great game defensively. Also while Munster were not good in attack i cant say leinster were much better.

If pom continues on an upward curve and heaslip continues on a downward one i would hope pom will get a chance on the Irish team

Sin é wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

would be relegated to a Friday night kick off, covered not by RTE Television with their expert panel but instead by TG4.

Friday night is prime TV viewing time. TG4 have put more money in I believe that RTE.

A couple of things. Friday night suits Leinster better (after work etc) and it gives both teams an extra day to prepare for Heineken Cup next week.

RTE Radio had commentary by Michael Corcoran. They also had Emmet Byrne, Jackman & Alan Quinlan.

Quinny is very honest in his assessment (which probably reflects the dressing rooms they came from). Byrne & Jackman just kept making excuses for Leinster (Jackman kept referring to Leinster as 'we'). Quinlan was very critical of Munster and referred to them as 'them'. A bit surprised with Emmet Byrne though.

Quinny also said that he was a bit dubious about Botha's motivation coming to Munster, but that he thought he was impressed with him.

A bit dubious? It was an entirely financial decision to be honest. He spent three years at Ulster letting it be known how much he hated the Irish weather and couldn't wait to get back to SA and then when the big money offer came from Munster he did a u-turn quicker than Tiger Woods former caddie!

I think the most important thing in all this was Sin e's point. The pundit who used to play for Munster was much better than the pundit who used to play for Leinster.

I think most are overreading into and overreacting on that game. It was the 1st real game for most of those players, settling back in since the RWC.

Sexton played really well and anyone questioning his kicking is really on a silly agenda. 92% in the HC last year against all the best teams in it. ROG played well too, but is not in Sextons way for Ireland. ROG is backup now after the RWC. Deal with it.

Jenno was the main man in the battle for the breakdown. Dominated it like only he can and allowed SOB carry more. Leinster are slowly getting it together and will be ready next week. The scrum is not a problem. Has not been and will take on the best in Europe with confidence. Feek and 4 of Ireland's tight 5 have just got home. When the HC kicks off, Leinster shift into another gear. This was our now yearly, pre HC, wakeup call. Its a great exercise. Not pretty, but we will meet a few more defence-minded teams like Munster in the HC, so this was beneficial to that end. We need to be opening teams like them up more. We did for the most part last year. Lots to learn from that game on video. I saw at least 2 tries butchered for the wrong options taken. Cant afford that in the HC. Fitzy is coming back. His defence was immense last night and he kept trying to get us going. Its a good sign.

Also agree that Sexton is being stymied by a slowing, more defensive than attack minded - centre-partnership. Need to give O Malley more time at 13 in the PRO12. If he does well consistently - then give him more HC bench time and use him. BOD and Darcy can not have a divine right to their positions any more. Toner is going nicely. Much more aggression and purpose in his play. Want to see Hagan play his way on to the field this year. Madigan too. This team must continue to evolve, to stay at the very top. All the great teams in sport - do.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think the most important thing in all this was Sin e's point. The pundit who used to play for Munster was much better than the pundit who used to play for Leinster.

No, that was not the point. The point is that the ex-Leinster players were not honest about the Leinster performance (and didn't really criticise Munster either), but Quinlan was VERY critical of Munster.

I thought Leinster were awful last night. I didn't expect a lot from Munster but Leinster weren't clinical and there backs didn't exactly set the place alight.

Leinster will hit form at the right time. Its all about timing.

Check last season for rugby sex on Tour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-5z4Nu5r7E&feature=related
See part two of 27 superb HC tries also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75vyllDqknY
I was at every game. Deep Joy.




Believe.

Ah Gibson...blind faith and optimism is always useful. Although you are starting to pontificate more. Am getting worried about you...

Just telling it like it is. Have no worries about Leinster at all. Same team only a years more experience. Can really only see one team capable of stopping us. ASM.

Id be depressed if I were a Munster fan. Its really not good. Worse than usual. Really need some play-makers in that team. And a new pack. Maybe, a new coach.

I think TG4s coverage is really good.... I can't understand a word they are saying but I'd rather look at that blond presenter than that 'go easy' guy .

I thought McFadden played well actually and made some really good half breaks. It was as good as I've seen him play and I think he is a 13 and definitely not a 12.

Sexton was superb. The best player in Ireland if I say so myself. He should be the next Ireland captain.

Neither side looked great in attack. Munster were far too predictable. ROG needs to vary his game more. Leinster look far less creative without Horgan and with Nacewa on the wing instead of 15.

Boss had a cracker and I think he's the best scrum half in the country right now.

Munster really dominated in the scrum which will worry Leinster. I think having Toner instead of Hines has really weakened their set peice.

Barnes played very well when he came on for Earls and Johny Murphy had a decent game.

Overall not a great performance from either side and a lot of the big players looked a bit flat.

..Oh yeah the referee was way too whistle happy which wrecked the game.

Yeah not great but a few coming through so not all bad. New coach sounds like a good idea to me. Next weekend will tell a lot where both sides are. Northampton at home and if we lose thats it for us in reality. But we will be alright...we always are.

All i will say about Leinster next weekend is Fabien Galthie.

Rodders...Boss best sh in the country!!!!!! Bwahahahaha

DOD wrote:Rodders...Boss best sh in the country!!!!!! Bwahahahaha

You knows it dod !

Hey was impressed with TOL when he came on though, I've gave him a while slagging in the past but I'm willing to give him a 2nd chance and say he should be Boss' understudy. Murray was a bit laboured with his service and Reddan was pretty flakey when he came on.

I would put him at no.6 behind Duncan Williams - barely

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think the most important thing in all this was Sin e's point. The pundit who used to play for Munster was much better than the pundit who used to play for Leinster.

Just rewatching the match now.

Thought McFadden was good at the time and still do.darcy isn't providing enough penitration though. Jennings was class too. Munster need Earls back because Barnes is their best midfielder and they need him IN midfeild!

MBTGOG wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think the most important thing in all this was Sin e's point. The pundit who used to play for Munster was much better than the pundit who used to play for Leinster.

Easy to amuse you. Did you hear any of the pundits or is this just support one of the 'click' comments?

Jackman is a joke - Frankie Sheahan gets stick for being biased (which he is) - Quinlan was objective and wasn't afraid to be honest even though he left Munster recently which surprised me.