Leinster post match stuff

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:31

hey all,

Hope everyone enjoyed the weekend of rugby, was so good to have the HCup back, I'd no idea how much I missed it until I started watching. Saw a fair few of the games and it was great to see so many nail bitters and so much positive attacking play.

Personally I saw 4 out of 4 losses for the provinces so I am fullblown delighted at the way things worked out.

From a Leinster perspective I was pretty pleased I think.
There were opportunities for us to win it that we missed and they didn't really look like scoring tries even the one they got was unfortunate for us albeit great pace and great support play from them.

Positives:
Good defence overall especially in the first half I felt where Godzilla was chopped and double teamed
Attack was quite sharp in terms of breaking forward and getting moving up the pitch quickly
Lineout was good (with both Strauss and Cronin on)
Fitzgerald looked like a real live wire and Heaslip improved also
Kearney was fairly elusive while still being solid which is a huge plus IMO.

Negatives:
Didn't get as many tries as we could have and were a pass or a yard away from getting a few more.
Scrum was a bit of a disaster and VDm didn't have a good game
Cullen at first reciever is happening too often and is costing us tries and momentum
McLaughlin really stifles our play in attack but does well in defence
Ross is not fit but is necessary for our scrum to survive

Ratings: Consider that 1 is the worst you've seen someone play, 5 is average and 10 is the best performance you have ever seen

VDM: 4
Poor in the scrum and while good in defence he didn't offer much around the park in attack, his carrying was average.

Strauss: 6.5
Great work in the lineout IMO and made some awesome tree felling tackles. Didn't attack as well as he has in the past but good game. Was in rucks all day too.

Ross: 5
He held up his side of the scrum but didn't show up around the park the way he was doing it last season. Solid in tight defence but poor in attack. Did muddy himself in the trenches though.

Cullen: 5
Found himself at first reciever too often and didn't react accordingly. Also takes the ball up poorly from static start. Good in the air and made tackles but not destructive ones in defence.

Browne: 5.5
Dug in well and produced a fine enforcer performance without doing anything to stand out. Defended well and put in a good shift at the breakdown but didn't offer anything going forward.

McLaughlin: 5
Did well in the air and did well in defence but it was noticeable how the speed of our ball increased when Jennings was on. Didn't make any meaningful carries but was solid.

O'Brien: 6
Got shown up by Gozilla at times but he still carried hard and often and because he was being marked almost he sucked in defenders. Good defence also but needs to play wider.

Heaslip: 7
Thought that Jamie did very well in defence, tackling the knees and holding guys up when needed. Didn't do too much in attack, dealt with the scrum well and was industrious on the floor.

Boss: 5.5
Too often the pass didn't allow Sexton to run onto the ball. Did do well around the fringes sucking in defenders however. Box kicks were erratic and could have had more control.

Sexton: 7
Great goalkicks and his tactical kicking was pretty good too. Defence was good and ran the backs very well despite not having much go forward ball. Was impressed with how he dealt with it though.

Fitzgerald: 7
One of his best games in a while and seems to be improving over the last 5 games. Made some nice breaks was eager and quick, good kick chase, missed one tackle as far as I am aware.

Darcy: 5.5
Quiet game really but was pretty solid and ran hard and showed better distribution than in recent times. Fairly solid in defence too I think.

McFadden: 6.5
Quick in midfield and added the threat of an outside break. Good defence and distribution and appeared to do well in contact.

Nacewa: 6.5
Had a pretty good game overall showing very solid defence and aerial powers. Some good half breaks but never broke through the line, good kicking too.

Kearney: 7
Good defence when needed and showed some elusiveness that he hadn't previously and appeared more willing to pass. Good kicking also when needed.

White-5 did well when he came on but the scrum did weaken
McGrath-5 did well when he came on but the scrum did weaken
Cronin-6.5 was refreshing to see him make such a positive impact and hit all his jumpers
Toner-6 has started well this year, he continued that form with soft hands, carries and lineout takes
Jennings-6.5 made a huge impact when he came on, was good to see Leinster attack speed up
Reddan-6.5 made a huge impact when he came on, was good to see Leinster attack speed up
Madigan- not used
O'Malley-5.5 wasn't involved hugely but held his own well and appears very physical for a small guy

Great to get something of a result away in France, from them being 3 points ahead of us if they'd won we are now even and we have the home fixture.
Great kick from Sexton at the end, we have lots to work on and build upon but our squad is strong and the guys are level headed.

What did others think?

by **rodders** Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:36

Pete this is the international section.

Didn't see the game. Hear yer man Godzilla gave Leinster plenty of problems?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:39

Yeah have no idea why it got put here before the club section????

Mods help please

Eh yeah he was wrapped up nice and easily in the first half, they used him really obviously coming around corner quite deep and Strauss, Browne and Heaslip in particular put in some very big hits on him, he went back mmore than forward in the first half.

In the second they varied it more and he began to make yards and lumber through tackles.

He ran over SOB Yikes

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:45

How did SOB play in that match? I don't think he was great the last match for Leinster against Munster. Ferris is outplaying him currently.

by brennomac Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:51

Can't disagree with most of your assessment Pete, am happy with the 2pts and Montpellier not being 3pts ahead of us but level.

On another note, does anyone agree that we were steeped to get that last minute penalty that Sexton slotted. To me, Martin was on his feet the whole time when trying to rip the ball - hard to see how that warrants a peno. And if it had been the other end of the pitch and it was Jennings being pinged for the same thing we'd probably be up in arms. Still, glad to take it - we've had our fair share of bad calls.

Look forward to Glasgow next week. Saw their match against Bath - decent team but we should be aiming for a bonus point win.

by **rodders** Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:53

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How did SOB play in that match? I don't think he was great the last match for Leinster against Munster. Ferris is outplaying him currently.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to compare Ferris and O'Brien. They are completely different types of player. Ferris is a specialist blindside flanker, one of the worlds best no 6's. O'Brien is the reigning European player of the year and maybe the most exciting player in Irish rugby, a guy who can play across the backrow.

They are not competing directly with each other for an Ireland spot IMO.

Ferris was immense against Clermont though. Shocked

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:57

Ferris is defenitley outplaying him yes.

While SOB is better in the rucks and at the breakdown than people make him out to be (he slows down and wins quite a lot of opposition ball) the fact that Jennings wasn't at 7 was a big let handicap against SOB.

McL is a tackler, lineout winner and carrier really where as Jenno wins quick ball amongst other things. That quick ball means SOB can get over the gainline and break the line more often.

The fact that SOB was at 7 and not 6 was not the reason he didn't play well in the first half of this match (or the HCup final) it was the fact that McL wasn't getting our 9 the quick ball that Jennings was which enables SOB to carry against 1 defender rather than 2 or against a slightly less organised defence.

I understand why McL was put in there and he did do our defence good and our lineout he does hinder our attack slightly.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 14:57

Because most Leinster fans would rather see him playing 6, where Ferris plays. I would rather he continues to play 7 for Leinster and Ireland as he is an all around player and can do 6, 7 and 8 equally well in my opinion. I agree with you that they are different players.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:02

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Ferris is defenitley outplaying him yes.

While SOB is better in the rucks and at the breakdown than people make him out to be (he slows down and wins quite a lot of opposition ball) the fact that Jennings wasn't at 7 was a big let handicap against SOB.

McL is a tackler, lineout winner and carrier really where as Jenno wins quick ball amongst other things. That quick ball means SOB can get over the gainline and break the line more often.

The fact that SOB was at 7 and not 6 was not the reason he didn't play well in the first half of this match (or the HCup final) it was the fact that McL wasn't getting our 9 the quick ball that Jennings was which enables SOB to carry against 1 defender rather than 2 or against a slightly less organised defence.

I understand why McL was put in there and he did do our defence good and our lineout he does hinder our attack slightly.

I still think SOB had his best game for Ireland against Australia (playing 7), where he made plenty of turn overs and wrecked havoc all over the pitch. I think the problem isn't that he is playing 7 but that McLaughlin doesn't really compliment him too well for Leinster, not the way Jennings does at least. I think O'Brien's best runs are as a support player (which he can actually do more at 7) than as a player who makes the hard yards (something Ferris can do). Ferris compliments O'Brien the way Jennings does, in a different way however.

by **rodders** Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:03

Thats fair enough Rory but I just think its a debate not worth having. If both are fit then I'd be fairly certain both will be starting for Ireland regardless of what numbers are on their backs.

O'Brien does seem to be a marked man these days though so other players are going to have to step up to the plate with the carrying(....cough cough ...Jamie Heaslip).

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:09

Completely agree Rory, that's what I was saying

And the fact that Healy wasn't playing as well left Montpellier with one less target to have to watch for as VDM is nowhere near as dynamic or destructive.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:17

I thought last week that we would only get a losing bonus point from this one.
Was not at the match but a few friends were. It was very hyped over there as the Big Match agains the european champions. Montpellier were keen to lay down a marker in Europe.
I just hope they give it the same lash against Glasgow & Bath. If so, they should beat them both over there.
I wonder will they 'do a Bourgoin' and travel with their B team. Interesting to see how they fair away to Bath next weekend.

Team did ok. We always start the season a bit slow - hopefully we can get some more fluidity this Sunday at the RDS.
Am still concerned over our midfield lacking creativity. McFadden does not have the gentlest hands for a centre. Tends to fire the ball at people.

by Standulstermen Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:23

Saw extended highlights just of this game and was delighted to see Fitz making breaks but dont tell me he looked quick. I recall seeing him beast clinton schifcofske from a 5 yard start at ravenhill and to me he looked like he was running through treacle. i dont think he can be considered on the wing given that lack of speed.

Sw Gorgodze running over SOB and i just thought to myself that SOB will store that one up and remember it for the return game. Looking forward to it.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:39

Well I thought he looked quick, not a fast winger fast but a winger all the same.

His breaks were good I thought.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:40

roddersm wrote:Thats fair enough Rory but I just think its a debate not worth having. If both are fit then I'd be fairly certain both will be starting for Ireland regardless of what numbers are on their backs.

O'Brien does seem to be a marked man these days though so other players are going to have to step up to the plate with the carrying(....cough cough ...Jamie Heaslip).

Agreed

And yeah the thing is Heaslip SHOULD be a huge ball carrying threat like he used to be. It is frustrating to see that aspect of his game has faded, as to me it was the reason he was one of the best 8s in the world. So dynamic and explosive, able to spot a gap and exploit it like a back. He may have improved in his work rate a little but his work rate to me was always stellar, he just seems to have lost his touch.

Lets hope he gets his mojo back!

by Standulstermen Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:41

He is a beautifully balanced runner but not quick enough for the wing imo

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:43

And about Fitzgerald, I do not think he is a winger. I sound like a broken record I am sure wanting to see him play at 13. I don't know if he will get that chance however as D'Arcy is still not budging. McFadden doesn't seem to be able to shift him from that 12 position! I am starting to show more interest in O'Malley as the potential 12.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:54

Pete - have you asked the mods to move this to the club section ?? Lots of Leinster fans about today !

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 15:58

I'll mail one of em now.

I think a midfield of McFadden 12 and O'Malley/Fitz at 13 would be great but I think Fitz has started to regain some form as of late, if Ross had passed to him on the 5m line he would have had a try vs Munster.

He is very slow as a winger though I do agree.

Heaslip is getting torn because for half the game he has to act as a "seven" due to McL and SOB being on the pitch then has to revert to being a number 8 in the second half. Feel kinda sorry for him.

He dealt with messy scrums very well I thought.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:03

Yeah, I am leaning towards McF at 12 and Fitz at 13 til BOD returns.
Would like to see that in Rabo first and go from there.
I have always been a big defender of Darcy, but he is more and more inclined to go into contact from a static position now and cannot get the yards he used to.
Fitz looking good alright - would be great to see him get back to his pre-Lions tour form.

Great to see Strauss getting competition at hooker. If Cronin could sort out the throwing, and cut out the 1 or 2 errors he makes per game he could be great for Leinster & Ireland. He has some acceleration and pace.

by red_stag Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:05

Acceleration and pace aren't what I want in a #2. Let him play winger and leave hooking to real men #mikesherry Smile

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:09

yeah good news on the Fitz and Cronin front Hurley.
That was one of the ebst games I've seen Cronin play.

Agree re: Darcy too, we could do with a new option in there with mcFadden

What do people think of both Rob Kearney and his flashy new step where he is actually beating guys and also much less selfish re:taking it on himself?

and

Leo Cullen standing in first reciever? He must be the worst carrier on our team yet he keeps putting himself there. Toner has improved his carrying would like if Leo moved aside for other players and hit rucks, made tackles and won lineouts.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:09

In all fairness Stag, Cronin's throwing yesterday was pretty good.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:14

Pete - Leo Cullen has adapted what is known as the Mal O'Kelly glory-hunter position.
It seems to be a degenerative condition that affects 2nd rows as they enter the twilight of their careers.

Stag - I take your point but we have strauss for the hard stuff, then cronin to come in and make some snazzy runs when the opposition tire.
See Strauss' hit on Godzilla? Savage for a little 'un.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 16:16

Yeah I noticed POC started doing it a season or two ago but he is a lot stronger than Cullen and gets away with it more. His decision making is also quicker.

yeah was a great hit on him. There were quite a few hits on Godzilla in the first 30mins that were awesome!

by valjester Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:28

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I noticed POC started doing it a season or two ago but he is a lot stronger than Cullen and gets away with it more. His decision making is also quicker.

yeah was a great hit on him. There were quite a few hits on Godzilla in the first 30mins that were awesome!

Cullen was absolutely appalling and second row must be a real worry for Leinster, and Ireland when Poc goes. Someone has to take him aside and tell him to let others carry, there were a few occasions when sexton went to pass realised cullen was at first receiver and held on for a second longer so he could pass it out wider. This gave the Montpellier line a chance to get up and the Leinster players received ball and man on a number of occasions.

by Mickado Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:42

Defensively we were really good I thought. Montpellier had very little time in our 22, their try was more than a bit lucky. Some of our offloading was as good as its ever been but with O'BRien marked out of the game it was Difficult to get much penitration.

We need to improve in attack, which is not a massive problem for us, we have it in us. I do wish Kearney and Isa would switch positions though, Isa is hardly getting any ball.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:45

valjester wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I noticed POC started doing it a season or two ago but he is a lot stronger than Cullen and gets away with it more. His decision making is also quicker.

yeah was a great hit on him. There were quite a few hits on Godzilla in the first 30mins that were awesome!

Cullen was absolutely appalling and second row must be a real worry for Leinster, and Ireland when Poc goes. Someone has to take him aside and tell him to let others carry, there were a few occasions when sexton went to pass realised cullen was at first receiver and held on for a second longer so he could pass it out wider. This gave the Montpellier line a chance to get up and the Leinster players received ball and man on a number of occasions.

Totally agree Val. He is too involved with the ball let him hit rucks and do donkey work we have enough ball carriers in our team without Cullen.

Mick-

I agree with you. It was refreshing to see Kearney attack more creatively though you must admit? Not saying he is a better 15 than Isa, because he isn't but he has improved I think.

by valjester Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:45

Mickado wrote:Defensively we were really good I thought. Montpellier had very little time in our 22, their try was more than a bit lucky. Some of our offloading was as good as its ever been but with O'BRien marked out of the game it was Difficult to get much penitration.

We need to improve in attack, which is not a massive problem for us, we have it in us. I do wish Kearney and Isa would switch positions though, Isa is hardly getting any ball.

Kearney at fullback is important for Ireland, and kearney was very good at the weekend, ran brilliant line and was beating defenders with ease. He was always looking for the off load but at times the support lines of Leinster players were either bad or not quick enough.

by valjester Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:47

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
valjester wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I noticed POC started doing it a season or two ago but he is a lot stronger than Cullen and gets away with it more. His decision making is also quicker.

yeah was a great hit on him. There were quite a few hits on Godzilla in the first 30mins that were awesome!

Cullen was absolutely appalling and second row must be a real worry for Leinster, and Ireland when Poc goes. Someone has to take him aside and tell him to let others carry, there were a few occasions when sexton went to pass realised cullen was at first receiver and held on for a second longer so he could pass it out wider. This gave the Montpellier line a chance to get up and the Leinster players received ball and man on a number of occasions.

Totally agree Val. He is too involved with the ball let him hit rucks and do donkey work we have enough ball carriers in our team without Cullen.

Mick-

I agree with you. It was refreshing to see Kearney attack more creatively though you must admit? Not saying he is a better 15 than Isa, because he isn't but he has improved I think.

The Montpellier fans I was sitting with were delighted every time Cullen got the ball. His body position is hopeless and I've no idea why hes started carrying so much this season he never used to take the ball on as much.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Nov 14 2011, 17:54

I know it's infuriating as it immediatly stops the attack because he never gets over the gainline and rarely sucks in defenders. It's a momentum killer.

Kearney at 15 is important for Ireland but I do think it is a bit of a handicap for Leinster as Nacewa is better, considerably so.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon Nov 14 2011, 19:56

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'll mail one of em now.

I think a midfield of McFadden 12 and O'Malley/Fitz at 13 would be great but I think Fitz has started to regain some form as of late, if Ross had passed to him on the 5m line he would have had a try vs Munster.

He is very slow as a winger though I do agree.

Heaslip is getting torn because for half the game he has to act as a "seven" due to McL and SOB being on the pitch then has to revert to being a number 8 in the second half. Feel kinda sorry for him.

He dealt with messy scrums very well I thought.

I don't think that is what is wrong with Heaslip at all. He always used to have a huge workrate. He is rubbish going into contact now though, he just gets stopped in his tracks or knocked back. That has nothing to do with playing as a "seven".. which I don't think he does either. He is just pretty useless right now.

by Mickado Tue Nov 15 2011, 10:09

I think this Heaslip bashing is a bit much to be honest, last year he was excellent until he was injured and was still pretty good when he got back (MOTM in the HC Semi final). This year he’s slowly getting back into that form.

He needs to become a ball carrier again, which for the whole of last season he wasn’t, it’s taking some getting used to again but the way the Leinster back row plays, and is allowed play is evolving with every game. If one man is marked out of the game it’s up to another to assume carrying responsibilities, but he hasn’t had to play that way for over a year, patience lads, patience.

by **rodders** Tue Nov 15 2011, 10:40

Managed to catch the hilights last night. Yer man Gorgonzolla or whatever you call him is beast alright! SOB won't like being outmuscled like that Shocked

I'm worried about Heaslip. This is very prolonged dip in form. He had a stormer against England in the 6N and some big games in the HEC. However he cas outmuscled by Coughlan in two league games against Munster last year and had a very subdued RWC. His AI performances seem a long time ago now.

I hope he hasn't lost that explosive pace the way Leamy and Ryan jones did? Both peaked early in their careers and I hope it's not the same with Heaslip.

Too be honest the way he's been this season the IRFU should have let him go down under.

by D24tress Tue Nov 15 2011, 10:43

in my eyes fitz has lost some pace, he made breaks but didnt back his pace.

SOB is being marked bigtime in every game, schmidt should take full advantage of this now, he will draw in two or three defenders every time.
Team will leave big gaps, and if they dont SOB will steam roll them.

Toner has been playing better and better each time this season,
i was impressed again when he came on, browne played well too.
jennings has to start.
Dom ryan is injured i hear aswell.

o'malley should be given a shot at o/c
its just not happening for ferg.

IF we start with redden jennings cronin and healy we should be able to bring a pace to the game the nobody should handle.

in phases in the first half we looked angelic with the offloading and pace
pity iosa made a mistake.

right my mad ramblings are over

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Nov 15 2011, 14:00

I think Ferg has been doing pretty well at 13 D24, what makes you think he isn't?

I would move him in and put EOM in at 13 though in my perfect world.
Love how much Toner has come on.

What happened to Ryan?

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Nov 15 2011, 14:26

Jeeps, people really are hitting on Cullen here. Is he really meant to be first receiver or is he meant to be the miss pass to let a centre take it up and leaves him as a second row to recycle the ball (and he will be closer to the breakdown to achieve this). Cullen should only take ball in first receiver if Leinster are looking for contact to get players (strike runners or key ball carriers) out of the previous breakdown. I'd also argue that Cullen was carrying more in this game because Healy was out and he put himself forward to take on some of that load.

On Heaslip, he is doing a lot of the dirty work for Leinster especially when McL and SOB are starting either side of him. When Jennings is on, it frees up Heaslip, and how many times does SOB make 10-15 yards on a run a phase after Heaslip had made the hard 2 yards to draw in defenders and put the defensive line on the back foot. It is the SOB 10-15 yard run that makes the highlight reel. When SOB is being asked to hit a well set defensive line, he is far less effective.

Toner has played well, and he will play better in matches the less he carries the ball. The other parts of his game are his strengths, not carrying. Schmidt needs to get his players working to their strengths in games and not trying to show up their weaknesses.

On McF, he has pace as in top line speed but I don't see many times him having a burst of acceleration. He has an okay step. He keeps on his feet and drives forward in contact quite well. These are qualities of a 12 for me, not a 13 as the step and acceleration improve you defense in that position. He also seems to be handed off in the tackle far more often that most other players.

O'Malley is the better Leinster option for 13. Ireland will probably say he is too small/light for the position (I don't agree), but at the moment he is behind Barnes, Cave and possibly Spence in the pecking order.

by Feckless Rogue Tue Nov 15 2011, 14:34

We were a bit sloppy in attack. Bungled some opportunities we would have taken last year.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Nov 15 2011, 14:41

I think O'Malley would possibly be better used at 12.. his size COULD be an issue though from what I have seen he is very physical for his size.

You cannot deny Heaslip is out of form, it isn't anything to do with having to do the dirty work. As I said earlier, he always was a hard worker, along with his hugely effective ball carrying/support play. He was world class. Just because he is paired with SOB doesn't mean he can't do both. SOB does a lot of work at the breakdown too which people don't seem to notice, on top of his ball carrying/support play.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Nov 15 2011, 14:57

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Jeeps, people really are hitting on Cullen here. Is he really meant to be first receiver or is he meant to be the miss pass to let a centre take it up and leaves him as a second row to recycle the ball (and he will be closer to the breakdown to achieve this). Cullen should only take ball in first receiver if Leinster are looking for contact to get players (strike runners or key ball carriers) out of the previous breakdown. I'd also argue that Cullen was carrying more in this game because Healy was out and he put himself forward to take on some of that load.

I agree that the skip a forward pass works well but it is not what is being gone for, Cullen is just in the way. Good point re: Healy though wouldn't have thought of that. I'd much prefer someone like Strauss or our other lock was the skipped forward as they are a bit more of an actual dummy as they could do damage with ball in hand and the defence would pause to mark them. Also they are better carriers if the ball does go to them.

On Heaslip, he is doing a lot of the dirty work for Leinster especially when McL and SOB are starting either side of him. When Jennings is on, it frees up Heaslip, and how many times does SOB make 10-15 yards on a run a phase after Heaslip had made the hard 2 yards to draw in defenders and put the defensive line on the back foot. It is the SOB 10-15 yard run that makes the highlight reel. When SOB is being asked to hit a well set defensive line, he is far less effective.

I agree entirely re:Heaslip, refreshing to hear this attitude too

Toner has played well, and he will play better in matches the less he carries the ball. The other parts of his game are his strengths, not carrying. Schmidt needs to get his players working to their strengths in games and not trying to show up their weaknesses.

I think the biggest improvements have been his passing before contact and he seems to get over the gainline now rather than being picked up and dumped back.

On McF, he has pace as in top line speed but I don't see many times him having a burst of acceleration. He has an okay step. He keeps on his feet and drives forward in contact quite well. These are qualities of a 12 for me, not a 13 as the step and acceleration improve you defense in that position. He also seems to be handed off in the tackle far more often that most other players.

I think he will do better at 12 too although I do think he regularily gets over the gainline at 13 which is nice too. Haven't really noticed him getting beaten defensively.

O'Malley is the better Leinster option for 13. Ireland will probably say he is too small/light for the position (I don't agree), but at the moment he is behind Barnes, Cave and possibly Spence in the pecking order.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Nov 15 2011, 15:07

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think O'Malley would possibly be better used at 12.. his size COULD be an issue though from what I have seen he is very physical for his size.

You cannot deny Heaslip is out of form, it isn't anything to do with having to do the dirty work. As I said earlier, he always was a hard worker, along with his hugely effective ball carrying/support play. He was world class. Just because he is paired with SOB doesn't mean he can't do both. SOB does a lot of work at the breakdown too which people don't seem to notice, on top of his ball carrying/support play.

I will agree that Heaslip has slipped in form from a couple of years back, but the level or quantity or criticism going his way seems far too excessive on the 606v2 site. He is entering the Paddy Wallace territory for negative comments. The best thing I can say about Heaslip is that you notice the pack isn't quite as good when he isn't in it, you might not be able to put your finger on it but if Heaslip & Cullen are both missing there is a big drop in performance and if 1 is missing, the intensity does suffer. Again, I'm not denying he isn't in top form, just that he isn't as dire as a lot of the comments on here make him out to be.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Nov 15 2011, 15:18

Pete, next time McF is playing 13 keep an eye on him giving up a lot of yards on the outside shoulder. His opposition player will take a line at his inside shoulder, McF sets himself up for the tackle very early and a step to the outside puts him on his heels and scrambling to get back to the attacking player.
It happens to him more when the defense is coming up against ball going from right to left (as the defensive side would see it). He does it on both sides, but left should tackles seem to be his weaker and that is exposed when the sideline/outside is to his left.
The bigger risk down the line is Fitzy's tendancy to rush in from his wing when this happens 15 metres infield. He gives the winger great opportunities to go for the try while he tries to dig out the mate inside. Sometimes he would be better trusting the defense drifting over to catch and marking the winger out wide to close out that option for the attacking player.

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