Big Bad Courtney Lawes

What is this lads problem? all he ever does is talk big off the pitch and steal the odd line out on it!
Nothing more, but his recent comments to BBC Northampton are border line comedy material, and i quote------

"It's a big part of my game I can add a little bit of fear from the opposition."

and to do this a week before Saints face Munster in Europe is just plain stupid! he might as well just paint a great big bulls eye on his back.

Courtney your not an enforcer your just a clumsy lanky cheap shot merchant nothing more,your only coming in 17st at 6ft7" , a 6ft 14st back would put you on your back side.

If i was his head coach i would be telling him to shut up and focus on carrying ball , hitting rucks and defending not getting yellow carded all the time.

Honestly the lad infuriates me,who does he think he is?
As Brian Moore once said when a player late shoulder charged his opponent "it's not big and it's not clever,any idiot could do that,i could throw my 15st of fat into somebody when they are not looking or expecting it"

He said similar things before the England South Africa game Autumn 2010 and he got humbled

Shame.He could have been a great player but seems to be turning into a bit of a prat.

True, i think he has bags of potential but he seems adamant on becoming a pantomime villain,

Ha ha ....he's going to be very sorry he said that after next weekend..munster will probably give him a traditional thomond 'welcome'...he will be targeted and put in his place..he has not done himself or his teams any favours...idiot

Courtney Love was man-shamed by Quinlan last time out, but now Quinny has retired, who will put him in their pocket?

Taffineastbourne wrote:Shame.He could have been a great player but seems to be turning into a bit of a prat.

Could have been? He's 22

These things tend to say more about posters than the subject. If he's "one of yours" then the context is mentioned, what was he asked, what went before, etc, etc. If he's not then he's an idiot.

He's had a minor ban for a clumsy knee. He's had a yellow for a late tackle (which was marginal according to people who saw it). He's had one yellow card a season for his 4 seasons (no idea if for technical penalties or foul play) and his only citing has been the one in the world cup (at least as far as the 6 pages of the search engine I could be bothered to look at suggest).

Oh and he was to only forward to man up against South Africa, putting in great tackles and actually making ground when carrying.

Veteran Blindside flanker Alan Quinlan outplayed a 20 year old lock out of position? Well done that man. Truly a great of the game...Surely it should be expected and he would be slated if he hadn't outplayed him?

EDIT: Can you tell I think he's 'one of ours'?

HammerofThunor wrote:Veteran Blindside flanker Alan Quinlan outplayed a 20 year old lock out of position? Well done that man. Truly a great of the game...Surely it should be expected and he would be slated if he hadn't outplayed him?

So was Mallinder an idiot to instigate such a mismatch - pitting a mere boy against the mighty Quinn? Surely he couldn't have been taken in by the PR hype?

viewtothegym wrote:
Courtney your not an enforcer your just a clumsy lanky cheap shot merchant nothing more,your only coming in 17st at 6ft7" , a 6ft 14st back would put you on your back side.

And it's at you.

England rugby fan wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:
Courtney your not an enforcer your just a clumsy lanky cheap shot merchant nothing more,your only coming in 17st at 6ft7" , a 6ft 14st back would put you on your back side.

And it's at you.

? not getting what you mean

Lawes has huge potential but like a lot of young kids maybe he just needs a touch of mentoring.

We have seen quite a few 'kids' over the last few years from most Nations shout their mouths off before thay have actually done much on the pitch.

Which only leads to them looking a bit silly when they don't perform and gives people the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon.

Didn't the 'kid' Lawes have a great game against Munster 2 years ago when they beat Munster in the HC?

trev,

Don't know as don't follow either club but over recent years we have seen Cipriani and Biggar to name just two who have shot from the mouth without really delivering other than in patches.

Is it a failing on maybe the Clubs/Regions? Are these players actually given any mentoring/coaching to deal with now being proeffessional and a media commodity.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Didn't the 'kid' Lawes have a great game against Munster 2 years ago when they beat Munster in the HC?

Yep, he impressed his opposite number Paul O'Connell too.

"He carried very well and seemed to be on the ball an awful lot, which is great," said O'Connell. "He put a lot of pressure on us in the line-out. He's a very athletic guy with a fabulous work-rate."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/2009/10/29/johnson-is-court-and-bold-115875-21781395/

lawes was asked in this interview about 2 huge hits he put on wasps players this weekend (both legal), he replied that it is part of his game to put the fear into opposition that if they dwell on the ball then they are going to get hit!

Damn right to.

maybe another example of 'misleading' journalism then lol.

If you take a quite out of context then it is easy to make most people look like an idiot. Against SA in 2010 he was easily England's best player and clearly POC (who might know a thing or two about forward play) rates him. I've never really heard him show boat or boast because generally he doesn't need too, I expect he will receive a 'Thomond Welcome' anyway as Munster won't want him concentrating on his game too much.

He does seem to get touted as this big new enforcer for England but really hasn't done much to prove it IMHO.

During world cup he seemed invisible - and this was from my Englsih housemate

"Oh and he was to only forward to man up against South Africa, putting in great tackles and actually making ground when carrying"

Im glad you pointed that out.....he was the only one that matched up physically.....

Lawes is 22/23 yrs old, has 100% work rate and is a tackling machine. His lineout is improving..and this is the area i'd really like to see him excell in. Turn in to the lineout winning second row...who still has some nastiness and physicality about him - a Matfield type player...

Combine him with a real powerhouse like Attwood etc and it would be would be quite a second row.

"he does seem to get touted as this big new enforcer for England but really hasn't done much to prove it IMHO."

He does have this image...but its one i disagree with also....

The fella has great potential. He is enthusiastic, likes to tackle and is strong and athletic.
I think the Northampton pack are formidable but for me they are missing a leader. Hartley can be a fab player but I don't see him keeping his pack focused. The pack leader doesn't even have to be the best player, just someone who gets his guys focused and whoever it is for Saints should be have a word in his ear every break in play getting the kid to focus on playing rugby.
As a leinsterman I look at Cullen and what he does for the pack. Not a highlight player but when he is playing that pack is focused. Someone like him in that Saints pack would bring Lawes on leaps and bounds.
Otherwise there is a risk that Lawes, while he is relatively young, starts to feel better than the pack he is playing in by listing to the droning lyrics of sky sports and ends up in the long line of players who believe their hype instead of fulfilling their potential.

Im having more and more doubts about Hartley....from an England perspective...if we can find a real quality hooker...Gray etc i would push for him....
I cant deny he has led Saints fairly well....but then i could lead that pack well....

he'd put the Poopie up me if he was charging at me on the pitch

I thought we saw Lawes back on form in thet last match against Wasps, good in the lineout and everywhere on the park. Yes he was very quite over the WC but that doesn't surprise me what with all the issues going on around him and the generally poor coaching and tactics, plus we don't know how well recovered he was from the neck injury either.

I'm just glad to see him back and playing well. To me this kind of interview means nothing, lots of players come out with this kind of stuff and i don't know why people get so upset about it.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im having more and more doubts about Hartley....from an England perspective...if we can find a real quality hooker...Gray etc i would push for him....
I cant deny he has led Saints fairly well....but then i could lead that pack well....

Yes he seems to have plateaud since about a year ago. He doesn't seem to egt as involved as much with carrying and tackling now not sure why that is though.

he'd put the Poopie up me if he was charging at me on the pitch

+1 on that point. I'd make a serious consideration of diving out of the way.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

he'd put the Poopie up me if he was charging at me on the pitch

+1 on that point. I'd make a serious consideration of diving out of the way.

I'd probably go with my own rednition of the 'Elissade Ola'

If people are getting upset with the Lawes hype why not just stop paying attention to what Stuart Barnes says? The guy is a Holly Wilaboobie.

HammerofThunor wrote:If people are getting upset with the Lawes hype why not just stop paying attention to what Stuart Barnes says? The guy is a Holly Wilaboobie.

What does that mean?

The things I've seen him say in the press this week haven't been conceited and he's seemed pretty respectful to the opposition.

"I want to make big hits and I do my best to stay on the right side of the referee, sometimes I'm going to slip up and make a mistake like last week - it's going to happen - but I'm just going to play my heart out for the team.

"I've just got to be careful that I don't give away penalties, it frustrates me when I give away penalties. It's not good for the team."

"It's always good to play Munster away, I'll expect a passionate crowd and a pretty fired up Munster team. I’m excited for it."

The context of interviews do seem to lack on readers nowadays. It seems fashionable by some to have a go at a International player (esp England) if they say anything during an interview or even dare to have the confidence to big themselves up. If CL has a stormer then his comments are justified. A bad game doesn't make any prominent player any worse. Look at Mike Phillips. Pelters before the WC and came out of it smelling of roses.

Btw...Tired old cliches' #1 "Traditional Thomond welcome"....

I love a thread that lauds the "mighty Quinlan" on the one hand and slams Lawes for indiscipline on the other. Is that really the right way round?

Comfort wrote:he'd put the Poopie up me if he was charging at me on the pitch

Your clearly a yella belly coward then

View, you're a proper sausage.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "

Theodore Roosevelt.

Seriously, get over yourself view.

yappysnap wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:If people are getting upset with the Lawes hype why not just stop paying attention to what Stuart Barnes says? The guy is a Holly Wilaboobie.

What does that mean?

I mean that if you pay attention to the ridiculously overhyped plaudits that Barnes heaps on his current favourite then you'd have a skewed view of any player. If you listen to the views of normal people (and I include non-idiotic pundits) then you'd have a more balanced view. Most think he's a good player with a lot of potential and, more importantly, he's the exact type of player we've been lacking in the last few years (same with Ashton).

Personally I rate Courtney Lawes highly and I'm always quite happy to see him on the bench when Saints play Tigers. Not so happy when he comes onto the pitch.

His work effort is superb, his tackling is, again, superb and he is getting better in the line out and carrying all the time too.

At 22 years old imagine how good he could be with a couple of years to mature under his belt. I'd be more than happy to have him playing for Tigers....paired up with Parling... lovely!

very good young player and athlete. wish Ireland has a player like Lawes coming through in the 2nd row.

yes he plays on the edge and has had a few disciplinary issues in his short career but if you take the edge out of him he will not be the same player. the only danger is if he becomes like Danny Grewcock.

Anyone see Jamie Cudmore at it again over the weekend. Now he is a disgrace

dublin_dave wrote:very good young player and athlete. wish Ireland has a player like Lawes coming through in the 2nd row.

yes he plays on the edge and has had a few disciplinary issues in his short career but if you take the edge out of him he will not be the same player. the only danger is if he becomes like Danny Grewcock.

Anyone see Jamie Cudmore at it again over the weekend. Now he is a disgrace

+1

I feel it would be a shame if Lawes gets tarred with the reputation for being a thug - he really could be a monster of a hard player for years to come

All Courtney Lawes needs to do is cut out the cheap shots and he'll be fine.

Not aware of the Jamie Cudmore incident... can someone explain?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:All Courtney Lawes needs to do is cut out the cheap shots and he'll be fine.

What cheap shots? Only been cited once.

Metal Tiger wrote:Not aware of the Jamie Cudmore incident... can someone explain?

Think it is reference to Cudmore taking a cheap shot at the Stade scrumhalf at one of the rucks. Comes in from the side, no ball to be seen and clattered the poor fella with some cross-combo of a shoulder charge and a swinging forearm. Think Clancy was in charge of the game and was in shock that someone would do something so blatantly stupid.

Metal Tiger wrote:Not aware of the Jamie Cudmore incident... can someone explain?

Cudmore is frequently banned for various offences

HammerofThunor wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:All Courtney Lawes needs to do is cut out the cheap shots and he'll be fine.

What cheap shots? Only been cited once.

I'm talking about the knee to Ledesma's head. Ledesma had already been tackled and was in touch. Play had stopped.

His knee never made contact with his head. It hit his chest. The reason he was banned was because he didn't attempt to use his arms to shove him into touch and therefore was considered reckless dangerous play (and rightly so). How often do players use the arms near the try zone? I remember the kiwi's doing it to Hape in the AI and we were told to stop complaining. Very similar to Botha's 2 week ban for clearing our a ruck without binding (something that happens every game and nothing is doen about it).

You're comment suggested he repeated puts in cheap shots. What are the others? NB I don't think the incident with Ledesma was a cheap shot, just reckless.

He wasn't already in touch as Lawes started to go down to ground to prevent him progressing further.

http://www.iolrwc.co.za/polopoly_fs/iol-spt-sep10-argentian-england12-1.1134891!/image/1928013365.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_600/1928013365.jpg


And it was a c*ck to the face, not a knee to the head when he pulled out after Ledesma had chucked the ball away.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/26/article-2042130-0DDD569C00000578-395_468x286.jpg

stlowe wrote:He wasn't already in touch as Lawes started to go down to ground to prevent him progressing further.

http://www.iolrwc.co.za/polopoly_fs/iol-spt-sep10-argentian-england12-1.1134891!/image/1928013365.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_600/1928013365.jpg


And it was a c*ck to the face, not a knee to the head when he pulled out after Ledesma had chucked the ball away.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/26/article-2042130-0DDD569C00000578-395_468x286.jpg

Cueto also seems to be holding onto his junk !

That's Wigglesworth (fittingly). Sac-attack!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhB31tI-qlg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGzuIl7-xs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2IzMVgC5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7zG9f-dMFJ0

Seems like Courtney likes to rough up the small guys...especially when they arent prepared...

Not pleasant as this one shows..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALgtYUkUgv4

Okay. I'll concede that Ledesma wasn't in touch when Courtney Lawes got to him, but using his knees to 'tackle' a player already on the deck qualifies as a cheap shot in my book. It should in yours too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7zG9f-dMFJ0

Reckless my @rse, he knew what he was doing.