Fade, draw, straight

Sort of related to a post I made on the advice/tips thread, I've been trying to cultivate a fade as it's a shot that comes naturally to me and I think it could be more reliable than trying to hit it straight as an arrow every time. With golf on the tv there's nearly always mention of a players shot preference i.e. "he likes to shape the ball from left to right" or "he likes to draw the ball".

Just wondering if any of you prefer to shape the ball a certain way and if you find that more consistent/ reliable?

Obviously its a given that in an ideal world we could all shape the ball both ways at will!

i try to shape almost every shot. I have never allways had one consitant shape- it has allways gone from fade to draw to hook to slice- lol.

i still try to shape every shot i play however- it doesnt allways come off , but i think visualising a shot is important.

I think the best thing to do is to play the shot that comes naturally- but also practise many other shots. At present i find it very easy to fade my driver(i have an open face and weight to promote this). But i like to draw my 3 wood. But then its all about the shot you face

I always used to have a draw (without knowing why) and then then few games I hit it right it would stay there. Infuriating. I went range few times to sort it out and ended up with a fade. Now I've had a lesson over this issue and can,more often than not do both, by positioning feet and opening/closing clubface. Money very well spent.

In my view, unless you are a cosistent golfer who can knock the ball straight down the fairway, you cannot draw/fade properly. I'm not good enough and make no attempts at it, unless on a dog-leg right. Even then it's not a shaped shot, as I can make it do it natuarally, by swinging too fast which causes me to come up quicker. So When I'm confident of playing straight, then I may try and learn how to shape shots properly, in a controlled way. I have a mate who can hit a great ball and when he's on song will shoot low rounds. His problem is that he thinks he's better than he is, and will try to shape shots off the tee, which can go OB, which causes him to sulk for the rest of the round, meaning easy money for me. he'll carry on trying and some will come off, but most can go anywhere. If he tried to concentrate on hitting it correctly, he would get confidence later on.

Doc wrote:In my view, unless you are a cosistent golfer who can knock the ball straight down the fairway, you cannot draw/fade properly.

Thing is Doc I think it's easier to shape the ball one way or the other than to hit the ball in a straight line. I'm not talking about Bubba style banana shots though. After Gmac's poor display at Valderrama he said "I knew that I couldn't aim at the right side of the golf course because I couldn't rely on my draw and I couldn't aim at the left side of the course because I didn't have a fade. I didn't have a reliable shot in the bag". He doesn't even mention going down the middle! To me this implies that you may be able to find more consistency shaping the ball slightly one way or the other.

shclaff, I understand what you're saying and in my case I always had to aim well left because my natuaral swing brought the ball back right to left. My fitter sorted my driver and 3-wood with a draw, which then meant I was shooting straight. Nothing worse than aiming right or left and seeing your ball stay straight and go into the cabbage. So yes most people will have a slight draw/fade but getting it to go straight gives you the yardage as the swinging ball loses yards. Shaping your shot is a skill/art that only comes with practice, as it's different from a natuaral shot

The new balls have less spin and fly straighter so the swing changes required to move the ball against the natural flight is much more than it used to be, therefore more difficult to acheive on a regular basis. New balls (unless you use a hard ball) also stop a lot quicker on the greens which reduces the need to move the ball in from the correct direction.

I think most golfers should just play their natural shot as more chance of executing what comes naturally. If a golfer tends to draw or fade then work on it on the range or in practice to chance the balance of the swing.

Only those who have time to practice a lot will have a chance to develop a swing that can move it both ways. It appears to me that even many of the pros accept their natural draw or fade and focus more on perfecting the stock shot.

Its the bad shots that spoil a scorecard not the pins you don't attach.

I played my best golf with a 10 yard fade on drives and fairway woods.
Faldo won most of his majors with the same stock shot.

I still think Bobby Locke's take on a full draw/hook is interesting.
He always said it enabled him a width of the fairway error.

When I played more seriously I was lucky to have a driver I faded and a 3 wood I drawed. Rather than change the swing just a case of changing the club.

Definitely better to hit a shaped shot as a main aim. Nicklaus commented that if you're aiming straight and it goes either way, the ball's moving away from the target. I doubt a single pro attempts to hit a straight ball. In addition, hitting a consistent shaped shot takes one side of the hole out of play i.e. if there's OB down the right and you hit a confident draw, the ball is moving away from trouble for most of it's flight/roll.

As for preference, most pros (I think this is correct) hit a draw as a standard shot. It's a shot that requires an in-to-out swing path and, therefore, decent swing mechanics. Those that hit a fade tend to hit a push-fade (Nicklaus, Trevino, Couples etc) with an open stance, in-to-out swing path and the clubface open to the path at impact. There are very, very few that hit a pull-fade (typical of an over-the-top move at the start of the downswing) - can only really think of Eamonn Darcy and Zinger.

As for me, I've always tended to hit a soft draw with most clubs. The one where it gets a bit wayward (so I aim down the centre and hope it doesn't go too far either way!) is the driver; if my swing is on it's a draw whereas if it's a bit off it's a straight/fade sort of shot.

ScottieD18 wrote: Its the bad shots that spoil a scorecard not the pins you don't attach.

I think the key for me is off the tee, I'm not thinking so much about attacking tricky pins. It seems to me that if I can get a reliable fade going with the driver, I'll hit more fairways even if I do lose a few yards.

yeah exactly- if someone wants to really develop a shot that will improve there game- introduce a bail out option. that doesnt actually have to be a certain type of swing - you can set up a culb that does it for you as well. I have developed my fade with my driver with a lot of tweaking(the club)- but i dont have to swing any different. I can shape my driver the other way as well, but whats the point when the pressure is on . just rip a 3 wood that is neautral

I used to always fade/slice the ball then a series of lessons straightened me out and I ended up with a draw. It took about a year of playing with it to be happy aiming down the right side of the fairway and not the left.

I suppose that I have really ended up in a similar situation as I know which way the ball is going, the problem can be how much! I prefer the look of a draw but I know plenty of decent golfers who favour a fade as they feel there is more control and when it lands it tends to stop a bit quicker whereas my draw/hook can look as though it should hang onto the course, take a big bounce and go OOB. They look at it as a better percentage shape and sacrifice the distance.

So much is mental as when I have lessons I get back to straight, sometimes with a slight fade and it freaks me out as I then don't know what is coming although it is probably not a dissimilar spread I would just have to aim down the middle. May be there is something in that!!

I have noticed a lot more pros favouring the fade. I guess this is due to playing on American style courses where distance control and a high ball flight to stop quickly are favoured.

My two penneth for what it's worth.

The straight shot is the most difficult to judge in golf, a fraction of timing out or hands not working as they should can leave you anywhere. It also allows less margin of error. Therefore having a stock shot in the bag that you know and trust is far better to use than aiming down the middle and hoping for no form of dispertion on your shot.

The pro's know what they're doing and thats why they develop a natural goto shot, Faldo the fade, GMac the draw, Goosen the draw, Couples the fade etc.

My stock shot off the tee is and always has been the high draw. I know how much it moves in the air and trust it to do so. However whenever I have an iron in my hand I always purposely play for a soft cut, as it's more controllable for getting the ball to stop quicker.

my stock shot used to be a high draw- i used to love it- the harder i hit it- the furtaher right it would start but the furthar it would draw back. My swing got a bit funky this season ansd after to many straight blocks and lost prov 1's!!! i thought sod it play the fade of the tee.

twoeightnine wrote:...I have noticed a lot more pros favouring the fade. I guess this is due to playing on American style courses where distance control and a high ball flight to stop quickly are favoured.

I don't think that's actually the case. Most hit a draw as standard but it's a high draw. That's not to say they can't hit a fade on demand though.

I've noticed that there are a select few golfers who aren't mentioned as favouring a particular shot. I can't think of a time when I've heard that Rory, Luke or Tiger has a preference, in contrast to others such as Kaymer (fade), Westwood (fade) or Gmac (draw).

Are there just some players who are so good that they don't have a preference? Like a footballer who can play equally well with both feet?

Rory, High draw, something he quoted as saying on League of their own tv show he recently did.

Tiger has the preference for a fade, and something he is working on with Foley, the no left shot..

I'm pretty sure that Rory is famous for his high draw which caused all the fuss after he said he wouldn't change it to win The British Open.

I'll get me coat

shclaff wrote:I'll get me coat

Don't forget your hat it's cold outside

Maverick wrote:Rory, High draw, something he quoted as saying on League of their own tv show he recently did.

Tiger has the preference for a fade, and something he is working on with Foley, the no left shot..

Yes - Rory's stock shot seems to be a high draw.

But I remember watching an interview with Harmon and Haney where they both said that Tiger didn't have a preference, he had 9 stock shots (fade: low / mid / high, draw: low / mid / high, straight: low / mid / high) and he imagined a noughts and crosses board and picked a square to hit it through.

raycastleunited wrote:

Maverick wrote:Rory, High draw, something he quoted as saying on League of their own tv show he recently did.

Tiger has the preference for a fade, and something he is working on with Foley, the no left shot..

Yes - Rory's stock shot seems to be a high draw.

But I remember watching an interview with Harmon and Haney where they both said that Tiger didn't have a preference, he had 9 stock shots (fade: low / mid / high, draw: low / mid / high, straight: low / mid / high) and he imagined a noughts and crosses board and picked a square to hit it through.

....and then picked out the sandwedge for the hack back onto the fairway

raycastleunited wrote:

Maverick wrote:Rory, High draw, something he quoted as saying on League of their own tv show he recently did.

Tiger has the preference for a fade, and something he is working on with Foley, the no left shot..

Yes - Rory's stock shot seems to be a high draw.

But I remember watching an interview with Harmon and Haney where they both said that Tiger didn't have a preference, he had 9 stock shots (fade: low / mid / high, draw: low / mid / high, straight: low / mid / high) and he imagined a noughts and crosses board and picked a square to hit it through.

Ray agreed the Harmon and Haney years was a case of Tiget had no preference, but thats why I mentioned the Foley reference. He is now working on the stock shot of a fade to eliminate the left side of the course, something he and Foley have both openly stated they are working on. As a result the Stinger shot that Tiger made famous and was so effective is no longer in his armoury

Maverick wrote: As a result the Stinger shot that Tiger made famous and was so effective is no longer in his armoury

I find it interesting that a shot that has been used since I don't know when on links courses has to be renamed to the 'stinger' by some numpty of a TV commentator in the States. What is even worse is how all the British media follow suit. What is wrong with calling it a punch shot?

A 'stinger' is a poorly executed punch shot.

Very common in winter.

drive4show wrote:

Maverick wrote: As a result the Stinger shot that Tiger made famous and was so effective is no longer in his armoury

I find it interesting that a shot that has been used since I don't know when on links courses has to be renamed to the 'stinger' by some numpty of a TV commentator in the States. What is even worse is how all the British media follow suit. What is wrong with calling it a punch shot?

D4S

Usually I'd agree with you on that especially having played links myself for years. But there is a difference imo between a regular punch shot and the "stinger" that being a punch is played with every iron etc in your bag, the stinger in question though is a 3woos/2iron shot only that can go the distance of a driver and gets even more roll and it is played slightly differently to a punched iron shot

When I was coached when I was younger, the teaching was to learn to play all the shots. Since coming back to the game I've been getting lessons with a decent (L4) coach, who is of the 'one swing, one stock shot' thinking.

The rationale for the change in philosophy seems to be twofold. Firstly modern technology seems to be designed to eliminate sidespin, making shot-making generally harder (although I'm not so sure that this really is the case). Secondly, as pointed out above, if you have a fairly consistent draw or fade it is a better percentage shot than trying to hit it consistently straight.

Doc, I disagree that the straight shot is the most effective in terms of distance. I generally club up for a fade that will go higher and stop quicker. A draw for me certainly rolls further and seems to carry further too, possibly as you whip the wrists a bit more. Maybe I'm wrong.

For me the draw is the more 'natural' shot but I'm going to work on making my stock shot a fade this winter as it seems to me easier to overcook a draw to a snap hook than it is to hit an out-and-out slice from a cut.

One of the quickest ways to get to the madhouse is to try and play straight tee shots all the time.

You will never maintain this over any significant length of time. Shaping shots has a greater margin of error (for the non-low handicappers).

Mercurio wrote:One of the quickest ways to get to the madhouse is to try and play straight tee shots all the time.

You will never maintain this over any significant length of time. Shaping shots has a greater margin of error (for the non-low handicappers).

It also has the greatest margin of error for low handicappers as well Merc. I'm a firm believer no matter what you handicap is a stock shot is a must for every handicap player as that way you can always be confident of how the ball is going to work and that can only be condusive to good scoring

I suspected that may be the case, Mav, but didn't want to be presumptious.

God thats a long word for this time of night.

But in all seriousness Merc, anyone trying to play simply a straight shot is giving themselves little to no room for error and putting huge pressure on their game because they can seriously dent their confidence if they say for example start fading it then try fitting it and ironing it out on the way round.

My advice to anyone would be whats your natural shot, whe you know that develop and play to it, as you will always play better when playing to your strengths rather than trying to iron out a weakness