Ireland v New Zealand Tour 2012

First topic message reminder :

It's gonna be a great tour and I think we can finally beat the Kiwis (even if we win 3-0 in third test) after a few heavy losses

We play New Zealand in Auckland on 9th June

Then in Christchurch (which is amazing for the city) on the 16th June

And the third test against New Zealand in in Hamilton on 23rd June

I'm surprised that Dunedin didn't get it as that was hotly tipped. Details of our midweek games against Super 15 and Maori teams still to be announced. Delighted to see a return to old fashioned tours. This is the tour on which I'll be judging Kidney not the Six Nations.

Im not saying its terrible, I'm saying that I disagree. I would not say I'm being narrow minded. I'm would say I'm being open minded. I want two new centres in the short term and the rest of the backs retained to see how they get on.

Then I simply want the best guys to play thats all. You have taken exception to being disagreed with. Your proposed changes for the next 12 months are extremely excessive even by Lievremonts standards.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:That means the most experienced player in our backs would be Conor Murray. How many caps does he have again?

I am glad you are resorting to trying to make a fool out of me for suggesting an Ireland team in 12 months. This is a forum for talking about rugby no? I suggested a team Ireland could play in about 12 months. Sorry, I will make sure not to make that mistake again, before the I get in trouble with the IRFU.. seriously I am hardly the Irish coach I was suggesting a team.

Okay Stag, fair enough I will not make such foolish suggestions again! There we go, argument over.

Rory nobody is trying to make a fool of you.

This is a forum for talking about rugby. You suggest what you think Irelands team should be in 12 months.

We were interested in the discussion and engaged you in it. Our response was to disagree and to consider your proposal over the top.

Nobody is trying to make a fool out of you I can assure you. We are simply Ireland fans who didn't agree with a point you made. Chillax

Well you said the third team was the team you'd want next year, I think you are being a bit too hasty sir. Wasn't trying to make a fool of you but that is the team you suggested. Murray would be the most capped back.

No one has any problem with you suggesting a team, you shouldn't have a problem with us disagreeing with it though either.

it would be very boring if we agreed on everything all the time

Of course I don't mind disagreement, what I mind is that you were putting words into my mouth. I suggested some players who will challenge for the team in 12 months, perhaps I should have been clearer about that. To me it looked like a potentially exciting team.

I was not showing an "extreme reaction" and replacing the whole backline as you think I was. For the 6 nations and NZ I want there to be a consistent 13 chosen, with D'Arcy and then BOD playing 12. In a years time there should probably be someone else (McFadden) or BOD if he is still able to play.

Stag, do you prefer Jones or do you prefer Kearney? To me Jones is better. For the other positions what I meant was Keatley should be challenging both ROG and Sexton in a years time. We have plenty of talent at wing coming through, so they should also be pushing through. That is what I meant, perhaps I should have been more clear but I am not trying to replace the whole Ireland team. That was not my point.

Ireland v Wales, 2012 Six Nations:
Paddy McAllister
Mike Sherry
Jamie Hagan
Devin Toner
Ian Nagle
Sean O'Brien
Dominic Ryan
Peter O'Mahony (c)
Conor Murray
Paddy Jackson
Simon Zebo
Luke Marshal
Brendan Macken
Craig Gilroy
Felix Jones

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Well you said the third team was the team you'd want next year, I think you are being a bit too hasty sir. Wasn't trying to make a fool of you but that is the team you suggested. Murray would be the most capped back.

No one has any problem with you suggesting a team, you shouldn't have a problem with us disagreeing with it though either.

it would be very boring if we agreed on everything all the time

You knew how many caps Murray had though and were making a fool out of me and you know you were Pete. Sorry but that is how it looked to me, and I think that is how you intended it if I am honest. Read the post above, of course I don't mind a good debate. But you and stag I feel are saying how quick I am to change the Ireland team when really that was not what I was intending to do and I have said this about 10 times now but you continue to quote me on my first post, which I should obviously have been more clear on.

Rory, if you want these players to be challenging for Ireland then yes I can agree with that. Well more accurately whoever is starting for their provinces should be challenging internationally. I agree with that. Whether they'll be the 1st choice XV within a dozen months. . . .nah

red_stag wrote:Rory, if you want these players to be challenging for Ireland then yes I can agree with that. Well more accurately whoever is starting for their provinces should be challenging internationally. I agree with that. Whether they'll be the 1st choice XV within a dozen months. . . .nah

That is fair enough stag! That is all I meant, and obviously I did not word my first post correctly. I do believe in 12 months time however, Gilroy or someone may step up. I even think Fitzgerald or someone may come back into the running, who knows.

No problems Rory, I'd just say that Pete and myself can only base our opinions on what your write, not what you meant to write

I don't see any reason why Gilroy won't be in contention come the 6N, if he continues to hold down a starting spot at Ulster. In fact given his talent it would be foolish and short sighted not to at least have him in the extended squad.

I'd imagine Fitzgerald will come back into the picture. He was very unlucky not to get in the RWC squad.

When is Felix Jones back? I think he is a superb player and will really challenge Kearney.

red_stag wrote:No problems Rory, I'd just say that Pete and myself can only base our opinions on what your write, not what you meant to write

True, well I apologise for the misunderstanding then

red_stag wrote:No problems Rory, I'd just say that Pete and myself can only base our opinions on what your write, not what you meant to write

+1

And the same goes for me when you thought I was making fun of you, I honestly wasn't but maybe I should have written it clearer. Apologies.

roddersm wrote:I don't see any reason why Gilroy won't be in contention come the 6N, if he continues to hold down a starting spot at Ulster. In fact given his talent it would be foolish and short sighted not to at least have him in the extended squad.

I'd imagine Fitzgerald will come back into the picture. He was very unlucky not to get in the RWC squad.

When is Felix Jones back? I think he is a superb player and will really challenge Kearney.

Fitzgerald I think should be playing at 13 for Leinster in BOD's absence. Fitzgerald hasn't the hands for 12, he hasn't the pace for wing, and isn't good enough under the high ball for fullback. But at 13 his hands are good enough, his defence is fantastic, he has good pace, and is generally a talented player who has lost his way a bit.

I am not sure how long it will be until Jones is back, but he was outstanding for Munster last season I thought. I can't wait for him to challenge at fullback again.

On another note how long is Earls out?

Upto 6 weeks Rory.

I'm not sure on Fitz as a 13, he has just started playing well-ish again first time he's been on an upwards curve in a while so I'd be loathed to move him too much.

I think McFadden and O'Malley/Darcy are going to be our centres this year til BOD returns

Where do you want to see him played? Fitzgerald I mean. Wing?

Also do you think McFadden is going to continue playing 13 alongside D'Arcy?

I see him as a bit of an anomoly.

at wing: he lacks pace, doesn't seem to beat his man as often as other wingers and has an appalling try scoring record

at 12: his hands are too poor and his decision making can be an issue

at 15: he is not the safety net we need at the back and his kicking is poor

13 may just be the place for him in which case I'd put McFadden at 12 and bring in Kearney Jr or Carr on the other wing till Horgan is back

Where do you see O'Malley come into the equation? At 12 or 13?

I often find its the less touted players that are worth watching. Paul O'Connell shot out of nowhere compared with Donnacha O'Callaghan. At Munster I know Scott Deasy was thought of higher than Danny Barnes. I'd back O'Malley to be a good player and I think that although Ian Nagle has captured the headlines for Musnter, its David O'Callaghan I think will do better.

McFadden was always just hype.

From what I have seen, O'Malley is a very exciting prospect. He has very good feet and good at breaking the gain-line, despite being quite small. Anyone know what his distribution/handling skills are like? I think he could be a great 12.

Keith Earls as a 12?

Anyone else think he has bulked up so much.

Here he is on Lions tour:


And here he is a few weeks ago.

Just out of interest, which AB team do you think will front up? No Thorn, no Nonu, probably no Richie McCaw. Read could be captain and SBW at inside centre. Will Carter play? Will the S15 cause some injury headaches like they did this year?

All I´m saying is do you think new faces for the ABs will help your chances?

Whats your stance on ROG stag... Should he be dropped due to his age

Why no Nonu? And stag I don't think Earls has the distribution or handling skills to be a good 12.

He´s off to Japan to fill up the retirement fund and possibly to buy up kimonos to go with the eye make-up.

Rory, i like your how you think, you are not calling for mass droppings but are seeing some healthy competition for spots in a year or two's time.
Some of the boys have to get more experience at club level but there is no doubting hat Ireland are starting to get a real strength in depth.

I honestly still see Sexton and Keatley as the way forward for Ireland.

Eire,

I actually think that Ireland take active steps to ensure we get into the Guinness Book of World Records for Worlds Oldest Rugby Team

Marcus Horan
Jerry Flannery
John Hayes
Donncha O'Callaghan
Paul O'Connell
Mick O'Driscoll
Jonny O'Connor
David Wallace
Peter Stringer
Ronan O'Gara
Gordon Darcy
Paddy Wallace
Brian O'Driscoll
Shane Horgan
Geordan Murphy

Nice comeback stag

Would that team actually beat any Top Tier teams?

I think Fitzgerald just had the worst season he'll ever have. He came back from a long injury and, instead of playing back to match sharpness on the wing, he came straight back at fullback. So he had no match practice and he was in a position he had less experience in. It didn't go well. He lost a lot of confidence and spent the rest of the season trying to hard to get his form back.

Fitzgerald wants to be a fullback. But with Kearney and Nacewa at Leinster he's only going to get the opportunity to be a fullback at another team I think. Can't see him leaving Leinster though. He's a solid enough winger. Good defender, and always gets involved in the build up to tries. He's really not a finisher though, as his try scoring record shows.

He could be a good 13. Even during last years nightmare season we saw flashes of real brilliance and creativity. That's what we need right now in the center. 12 and 13 are two positions that Leinster and Ireland need to fill soon. Fitzgerald needs a run in one position (I don't think wing is where we'll see the best of him). So why not give him a go at 13 now that BOD is out? Might work.

Fitzgerald was supposed to be the next big thing. And it wasn't all hype. He is talented. He just hasn't really fully lived up to it yet. Remember he's still very young. Younger than Bowe was when he blossomed into a world class player.

He was said to be the next BOD. But how often has he actually had a chance at 13? Leinster should play him there now. D'Arcy, McFadden and O'Malley to fight it out for the 12 shirt.

eirebilly wrote:Whats your stance on ROG stag... Should he be dropped due to his age

No he should be dropped because he's feckin useless!

ROG was a great servant to Munster and to Ireland. One of our most legendary players ever. So there's a lot of loyalty to him in Ireland. But every foreign pundit I've read, that were writing about the Irish flyhalf situation over the last year have expressed puzzlement at why Kidney hasn't backed Sexton as his number 1 flyhalf ages ago.

To quote World Cup winning coach Bob Dyer in his blog.

Sexton offers much more than O'Gara

That says it all really

I think Sexton is our number 1 flyhalf. He has started most games I can remember since his debut. I just thought he kicked himself out of contention.

I think Sexton should be starting our matches as he is a bettter player. But ROG is definitely on the bench.

red_stag wrote:I just thought he kicked himself out of contention.

That is true. Can't argue there. He didn't handle the pressure from ROG breathing down his neck very well.

Is it just me or are we having the same conversation on two different threads?

We are. The pronvinces and the national team are extremely linked.

O'Malley:

More a 13 than a 12 but has played 12 with BOD at 13 and they switched about regularily enough. First thing you notice about him is how small he is that being said I've watched him a fair bit and I haven't seen him miss tackles. He is a better defender at 13 though for sure because due to his size he always tackles low, that works in the wider channels but with the 12 channell being overloaded it gives the carrier to much of a chance to offload.

He is quick although not lightening his real attacking flair comes from his amazing feet, he can shift defenders very well and is quite elusive but also is very, very quick over 30m or so.

He is a good passer of the ball but more importantly is his timing of the passes he gives, he knows when to release the ball better than most other young centres in Ireland, good decision maker and good at executing those decisions I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Have a look at the Clermont game he played in last year away and also he scored a beaut against Saracens I think showing some serious feet.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:O'Malley:

More a 13 than a 12 but has played 12 with BOD at 13 and they switched about regularily enough. First thing you notice about him is how small he is that being said I've watched him a fair bit and I haven't seen him miss tackles. He is a better defender at 13 though for sure because due to his size he always tackles low, that works in the wider channels but with the 12 channell being overloaded it gives the carrier to much of a chance to offload.

He is quick although not lightening his real attacking flair comes from his amazing feet, he can shift defenders very well and is quite elusive but also is very, very quick over 30m or so.

He is a good passer of the ball but more importantly is his timing of the passes he gives, he knows when to release the ball better than most other young centres in Ireland, good decision maker and good at executing those decisions I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Have a look at the Clermont game he played in last year away and also he scored a beaut against Saracens I think showing some serious feet.

From what you are saying Pete he seems like the perfect candidate at 12. He may not be an up front tackler but I don't think that is necessary at 12 as long as his defence and organisation of the defence is good. So he is a good decision maker and a clever distributor. Sounds like a top 12 to me

I would disagree that O'malley has good hands. He has decent hands but for me he holds onto the ball rather than passes it. He is also dominated in contact too often as a result of his size. He is very talented i agree but i dont think he will even be Leinsters 1st choice long term.

From what I saw I thought he did very well in contact stand! He was able to break the gain line and had fantastic leg drive/amazing feet to make ground. Learning to distribute the ball more could be taught as he develops. He seems to have talent to me, and the skills can be taught.