The four proud HEC provinces

First topic message reminder :

So for the first time ever we have a full compliment in the HEC. How are we feeling, one and all?

Personally, even though Montpellier have no HEC pedigree they worry me. They stormed into qualification last year. They've never cared about the Amlin, even to the point of being fined by the ERC after not registering the likes of Trinh Duc. But as a group I'd say it's less evil than last year.

Ulster, without Pienaar, are up against it. Clermont (ouch) and Tigers (ouch-ouch), how are the northerners feeling about this? Would qualification for the Amlin knock-outs be a good or bad thing, in terms of realistic silverware?

Munster, well the fans probably won't wake up until the knock out stages Lets hope the team does. WC hangovers and all that. Leinster are likewise suffering. The derby was not exactly Inviticus, now was it? Actually it was, awful film.

Harlequins and Gloucester yo-yo between the Amin and the HEC. In fact, in Connacht's group, Toulouse are the only team that weren't in the Amlin last year. The group of snooze in terms of TV coverage, I fear.

But still, the first time we've had all four and that's something to celebrate. And Connacht's HEC shirt is, once again, a thing of beauty.

Spoiler:

The beard-stroking verdict: Lots of beer.

What has happened is we have become a club from a province and to a certain extent we have lost our soul...whereas Leinster are going the other way.

I use the Cork/Limerick thing as a ball hop but there is a serious aspect to this.

Since 2000 when the bandwagon started rolling we had two dilapidated stadium. The stand in Musgrave park was shut down because it had become unsafe. So when it started getting bigger the decision was to have the HC games played in Thomond - this was only around 2003-04 season.

Over the subsequent years all the big games kept getting shifted to TP (it’s a big stadium and makes sense) but the Cork rugby public were left with between 2-4 ML games at best which at one stage was like watching Munster A due to a lot of the major names being kept for the HC.

On top of that for TP the initial demand for HC was so great that they went down the distribution of tickets through the clubs. So you can still buy a ML season ticket for example but you wont get a HC ticket = closed shop. Unlike Leinster who have been very astute the way they have approached this (clearly turnips affect your business sense).

What this has meant is not only in Cork but throughout the province the clubs are still the primary dealers of tickets, the ordinary punter who is interested in Munster Rugby but maybe not involved in the clubs is excluded.

The reference to Cork is about the biggest market being completely not involved in the product. There are lots of hardcore rugby people in Cork (probably more than in Limerick) but due to the approach taken the rest of the public do not get a look in as well. Therefore = no brand loyalty built up outside of the core rugby folk.

With regards to the rugby and losing our soul…
I have been to games against LEinster and Ulster in TP or Musgrave park and the mood of the crowd is an expectation to win. The same with HC games in the past. The atmosphere used be electric and the players sensed it and played accordingly…now its all flag waving, smoke and mirrors. Stand up and Fight is now a nice little bit of light opera before the start of the game. It just all feels plastic to be honest. The last two times we had a good atmosphere was the Abs and Australia.

Am I right in saying then, that you cannot get tickets unless you are through a club? Only then on general sale?
I am amazed at there being no season-ticket option in Munster for general punters who are not club-affiliated.
Have to say the Leinster set-up is excellent. If I cannot make the game I can send a soft copy ticket to a mate instead of physically handing over my season ticket.
Its the little things make the difference.
I accept you do get lots of eejits who don't have a clue at the Leinster games. But usually those eejits are dads/mums (who never played) bringing their kids who are now playing the game, so its a positive really.

Sorry, DOD's post above answers my question. Cheers.
Magners only season-ticket eh? Not great. Its the 3 HC home games and the home Munster game that are the season-highlights for me.
And of course our season-ticket allows us first dibs on HC knock-out games.

My prediction for this weekend;
Ulster (narrow win)
Munster (win)
Leinster (BP loss) - sorry lads ! I just have supported Leinster too long to expect anything other than us making a group that is easy on paper into a difficult one...
Connacht (lose)

Back to the rugby...
For Munster unless the players go out onto the pitch scared sh.tless of losing I think we will struggle.

Great post DOD . I have to say all that is news to me. I hope things turn around for Munster, starting on Saturday, with a big win over the saints .

I find that Leinster and recently Connacht market brilliantly to fans. Ulster and Munster don't seem to do as well in promoting the team or so it seems.

I think Ulsters focus is more in marketing itself to sponsors/investors as opposed to fans.

When you consider the amount of brands affiliated with Ulster now i think the revenue coming in must be great. In terms of bringing money in i think Ulster are grand. Fans is a different matter as you say Stag but this game will sell out thank god.

Do Ulster fans travel away. How many will go to Clermont this year? I'd say few.

There never will be that many. Cant put a figure on it but i went to Biarritz last year and if there were 200 hundred ulster fans that would be the extent of it. Sadly with the wee ones arrival i wont get to any away game this year unless it is in Ireland.

Might just try for a 6N game in Dublin

In fairness though i believe there will be a good few going to Leicester next week. A few of my mates are hitting Northampton v Scarlets on friday then Leicester v Ulster on saturday the jammy buggers

I have an awful feeling Munster won't win

I have an awful feeling there won't be an Irish win this weekend actually, I think Leinster do have the best chance of winning though.

Ravenhill is an away game for me stag ! They only away games I've been to is Leinster but will make a point of trying to get abit farther afield.

Ulster is very disconnected from the rest of the province outside Belfast and the traditional rugby heartlands like Ballymena I think.

It's a pity they didn't move some Ravens games up this way to get the brand out there a bit. Donegal must have massive potential in terms of players and fans.

Are there any ulster men from donegal?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Are there any ulster men from donegal?

Loads of them...have you seen the crowd in Malin head...big hairy feckers.

I would love Munster to ramp up the Cork v Limerick rivalry in a big way. I think that it would kindle that competitive edge which I see as slowly dying.

How great would a (Kerry, Cork, Waterford) South Munster XV v North Munster (Limerick, Clare, Tipperary) XV preseason game be:

South Munster
01 Darragh Hurley
02 Denis Fogarty
03 Stephen Archer
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Mick O'Driscoll
06 Dave O'Callaghan
07 Peter O'Mahony
08 James Coughlan
09 Tomas O'Leary
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Simon Zebo
12 Scott Deasy
13 Tom Gleeson
14 Danny Barnes
15 Denis Hurley

North Munster
01 Marcus Horan
02 Mike Sherry
03 John Hayes
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Tommy O'Donnell
07 David Wallace
08 Denis Leamy
09 Conor Murray
10 Declan Cusack
11 Keith Earls
12 JJ Hanrahan*
13 Troy Smith
14 Sean Scanlon
15 Luke O'Dea

*Originally South Munster but plays in North Munster. I suppose we could spread our NIQs and our non Munster born players across both teams.

Can't think of any players in the professional era Rory?

Seamus Mallon was from up this way and Niall O'Connor was from Limavady, Trimble from Coleraine. Can't think of anyone from Donegal?

David Wallace is a Cork man...

DOD - thats a major clutch at straws. In that case O'Gara isn't a Cork man.

red_stag wrote:I would love Munster to ramp up the Cork v Limerick rivalry in a big way.

Surely that should be played out at club level stag? Munster should represent the whole province, it shouldn't matter were the players are from?

Gees yous are awkward feckers down there

Rodders no I disagree. What made Munster tough IMO was that there wasn't just rivalry with other teams but a healthy internal rivalry. Cork v Limerick was how it was traditionally. You'd play them at club level and then put it aside to take on the other teams.

I'd like to see a greater emphasis on the North/South divide in Munster. Our yougnsters coming through have been playing Munster Academies, Munster age level, Munster schools with the Corkmen. The rivalry is dying out.

I would love someone controversial like O'Gara to come out with a taunt about how many Corkmen are in the Munster team and that Limerick need to catch up or vice versa. I think its how our Munster team work.

Why dont you ask him where he is from...in his broad cork accent he will demure from answering...he is scared of the Young Munster crowd if he answers he is from Cork.

The Cork Limerick rivalry was great in the 70's and 80's and even into the 90's but its been watered down and now everyone is nicey nicey.

I remember when Shannon/Con would easily get 5000 in the AIL and you could get a big crowd at a MSC game. Alan Quinlan and David Corkery beating the heads off each other...used be great.

Exactly DOD. The Cork Limerick rivalriy was great in the 90s - I remember it being a big thing and Im only 23

See where Stag is coming from.
Look at the GAA. My grandad from 'down there' when talking about the football would say;
"Jaysus, Cork & Kerry - sure 'tis like Israel and Palestine."

Munster seem to have lost a bit of the dog they always had in them. Reflects a post elsewhere (possibly DOD) about the nature of the support as well.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:See where Stag is coming from.
Look at the GAA. My grandad from 'down there' when talking about the football would say;
"Jaysus, Cork & Kerry - sure 'tis like Israel and Palestine."

Munster seem to have lost a bit of the dog they always had in them. Reflects a post elsewhere (possibly DOD) about the nature of the support as well.

It just seems so bland at the moment. Its like we are a new Australian franchise or something. Support is still great but somethings missing and its hard to figure out.

Hardship, it's not there anymore. A few years of frustration works wonders for the them against us attitude

Agree with you entirely DOD. Even at schools level, I refereed PBC and Munchins in a Senior Schools match last year and the game was devoid of intensity.

Just going back a few steps, I withdraw my comment saying Leinster may be the only province to win this weekend....ouch that stung...

VDM-Strauss-Ross
Cullen-Browne
McLaughlin-Heaslip-SOB
Boss-Sexton
Darcy-McF
Fitz-Kearney-Nacewa

Hagan-White-Cronin-Toner-Jennings-Reddan-Madigan-O'Malley

Munster name their team:

https://www.606v2.com/t18048-munster-v-saints-teams-named#670784

Browne? The fack?

Mickado wrote:Browne? The fack?

Healy injured. Browne & McLoughlin add more physicality than Jennings & Toner.
Gonna be an arm wrestle.

Irish times don't list Hagan on the bench

DOD wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:See where Stag is coming from.
Look at the GAA. My grandad from 'down there' when talking about the football would say;
"Jaysus, Cork & Kerry - sure 'tis like Israel and Palestine."

Munster seem to have lost a bit of the dog they always had in them. Reflects a post elsewhere (possibly DOD) about the nature of the support as well.

It just seems so bland at the moment. Its like we are a new Australian franchise or something. Support is still great but somethings missing and its hard to figure out.

Its bland for Cork supporters because Cork isn't the epicentre of the universe and never was. Anyone who reads this thread will realise now why Munster's main stadium is not in Cork. Any sport that is successful in Munster have kept there HQ well away from there - Thomond in Limerick, Semple Stadium in Tipperary .... Cork GAA are a disgrace. Remind me DOD, how successful is Cork City Football?

DOD, what's wrong with Cork people that they can't get into their cars and drive to Thomond Park like the rest of us mortals?

Quick reminder folks, this is an article celebrating the fact that all four provinces are in the HEC together for the first time ever. It is not a pissing contest.

Wow - next time Sin é is having a pop at Leinster, we can just throw in a line about Cork to deflect his attention.
e.g,
Sin é "22% of people know that in 48% of matches, Jonny Sexton will MISS 74% of kicks that 38% of all out-halves in the World would have kicked had the humidity been 10% higher, and the crowd attendance 7% lower".

A N OTHER "Really Sin é, fascinating. By the way, what are your views on Cork getting that European City of Culture award. Well deserved eh??"

Sin é "GGGRRRRR, "

Ah now Sin É if you had ever got as far as Cork (never been to Musgrave I would venture) you would know the N20 from Cork to Limerick will be one continuous tail back from about midday tomorrow.

Except for the odd donkey and cart escaping from Thurles you wont see many tipp reg vehicles (as they say in Templemore) heading wesht.

If its any concilation the rest of your rant is very amusing...

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Wow - next time Sin é is having a pop at Leinster, we can just throw in a line about Cork to deflect his attention.
e.g,
Sin é "22% of people know that in 48% of matches, Jonny Sexton will MISS 74% of kicks that 38% of all out-halves in the World would have kicked had the humidity been 10% higher, and the crowd attendance 7% lower".

A N OTHER "Really Sin é, fascinating. By the way, what are your views on Cork getting that European City of Culture award. Well deserved eh??"

Sin é "GGGRRRRR, "

I'd actually have no problem with 1 HEC home match in Musgrave. I went to see Brigend v Munster in Musgrave before.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Wow - next time Sin é is having a pop at Leinster, we can just throw in a line about Cork to deflect his attention.
e.g,
Sin é "22% of people know that in 48% of matches, Jonny Sexton will MISS 74% of kicks that 38% of all out-halves in the World would have kicked had the humidity been 10% higher, and the crowd attendance 7% lower".

A N OTHER "Really Sin é, fascinating. By the way, what are your views on Cork getting that European City of Culture award. Well deserved eh??"

Sin é "GGGRRRRR, "

Cork people maybe right pain in the asses, but at the end of the day, they are our pain in the asses. So feck off and leave them alone.

DOD wrote:Ah now Sin É if you had ever got as far as Cork (never been to Musgrave I would venture) you would know the N20 from Cork to Limerick will be one continuous tail back from about midday tomorrow.

Except for the odd donkey and cart escaping from Thurles you wont see many tipp reg vehicles (as they say in Templemore) heading wesht.

If its any concilation the rest of your rant is very amusing...

Tipperary is known for its racehorses - in fact we have the best stud and racing stables in the world. Cork people thought that Betty wanted to visit them, she didn't really, but was bribed into visiting Cork with a promise of a trip to Coolmore

By the way, Tipp people don't feel they have to drive a with a 'TN/TS' reg car.

This thread is comedy gold! This is the 1st time I've ever seen a poster get under Sin E's skin and it's a fellow Munster fan!

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:Ah now Sin É if you had ever got as far as Cork (never been to Musgrave I would venture) you would know the N20 from Cork to Limerick will be one continuous tail back from about midday tomorrow.

Except for the odd donkey and cart escaping from Thurles you wont see many tipp reg vehicles (as they say in Templemore) heading wesht.

If its any concilation the rest of your rant is very amusing...

Tipperary is known for its racehorses - in fact we have the best stud and racing stables in the world. Cork people thought that Betty wanted to visit them, she didn't really, but was bribed into visiting Cork with a promise of a trip to Coolmore

By the way, Tipp people don't feel they have to drive a with a 'TN/TS' reg car.

In fairness Sin you could have kept Betty but I think she was more interested in the Cork Dry Gin than a few nags.

With regards to the TS/TN reg....it would be too embarassing alright.

I am fascinated. Does everyone from outside Cork in Munster have this dislike for de rebel county ?
Or is it just Sin é?

Not a dislike Hurley. More an intensely passionate love-hate relationship.

greybeard wrote:Quick reminder folks, this is an article celebrating the fact that all four provinces are in the HEC together for the first time ever. It is not a pissing contest.

greybeard this is Munster banter - we're only insulting our own. Don't worry about it.

By the way, did anyone see the pic that Jerry Flannery put up on his twitter? It was a bag of training gear he collected from Munster with Fla's name on it. Someone scribbled on it, "May Not Need"! You wouldn't want to be sensitive, now, would you?

Yes sin, and there's enough of it on other threads. Not on mine, please.

Sin é wrote:

greybeard wrote:Quick reminder folks, this is an article celebrating the fact that all four provinces are in the HEC together for the first time ever. It is not a pissing contest.

greybeard this is Munster banter - we're only insulting our own. Don't worry about it.

By the way, did anyone see the pic that Jerry Flannery put up on his twitter? It was a bag of training gear he collected from Munster with Fla's name on it. Someone scribbled on it, "May Not Need"! You wouldn't want to be sensitive, now, would you?

Thats classic. I love those rugby antics. Hilarious.
Anyway, in relation to the OP, it is great to have all 4 provinces in the Heino. Delighted for Connacht - would be some craic getting a ticket for their home game Vs Toulouse.
Was at their Ospreys match last yr (on a stag) and we had a fantastic night. The dags come on after the rugby. Brilliant !
Until now, they were the only province without a sizeable bandwagon contigent. That's all gonna change !
1st member - step forward Michael D Higgins !!

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:I am fascinated. Does everyone from outside Cork in Munster have this dislike for de rebel county ?
Or is it just Sin é?

Cork is hated* by Waterford, Kerry & Tipp (all next door neighbours and would be competitive in the GAA).
Clare / Tipperary don't like each other (hurling reasons), though Clare are not much good really.
Cork only loves themselves.
Poor Waterford - everyone kind of likes them because they never win anything.

There is a phrase in Tipperary that is used when all is good in the world: The hay is saved and Cork beat (in the hurling).

*All the rivaleries are sporting ones.

Michael D is a soccer fan. He is (or was) chairman of Galway United, Connacht's main sporting competition.

By the way, Michael D. was born in Limerick!

I love Cork. Just empty it of its residents and it would be perfect. It's so like France that way.

Getting back to the topic.

With all four provinces in the HEC, who is missing out?

Hagan and Carr aren't in the Leinster squads, will Munster trust Keatley if the NH match is close or will they play ROG for the whole game? same with Cronin?

And Mark McCrea, Carr's heir apparent at Connacht, is not selected either. NOC and TJ only make the bench, but will probably see game time, so probably a good move.

Moving to get opportunities hasn't worked out, at least for the first week.

Sin é wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:I am fascinated. Does everyone from outside Cork in Munster have this dislike for de rebel county ?
Or is it just Sin é?

Cork is hated* by Waterford, Kerry & Tipp (all next door neighbours and would be competitive in the GAA).
Clare / Tipperary don't like each other (hurling reasons), though Clare are not much good really.
Cork only loves themselves.
Poor Waterford - everyone kind of likes them because they never win anything.

There is a phrase in Tipperary that is used when all is good in the world: The hay is saved and Cork beat (in the hurling).

*All the rivaleries are sporting ones.

Leinster is simpler. Evryone is united in their dislike of the Dubs.

"The hay is saved and Cork beat". Excellent stuff. Will have to work that into my day to day vocabulary.