Come on you Saints!

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Thomand Park? Pah!

A walkover shureley.

Looking forward to a fantastic game really...

Thomond wrote:Murray is getting a bit of what I like to call "Tomás" syndrome. He is beginning to take a step or two before he passes. O'Leary did well when he came on. His passing was crisp and precise.

TOL still makes some stupid decisions for a player of his experience. That chip kick could have been suicidal.

O'Mahoney really looks good. Ferris and Henry were superb for Ulster. Leinster already have a great established backrow but they also have Ruddock and Ryan with huge potential. Ireland has an unbelievable amount of quality backrowers for years to come. I can see the arguments over who should start for Ireland now. Still no fetcher though.

O'Mahony is looking like he could be a menace at the breakdown. He did well there yesterday.

valjester wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Heaslip used to be such a dynamic ball carrier, and a real threat with the ball in hand. Where has that gone? He was one of the best 8s in the world.

Heaslip needs a break, he was rushed back from injury last year for the last two heineken matches of the group stages. POM looks very good and hopefully he will be making the Six Nations training squad.

I was impressed by murray again, one or two mistakes but very impressive and I couldn't understand why he was taken off.

He didn't seem fit during the world cup, apparently he had concussion which was why he was wearing a scrum cap. However by now he should be starting to come back to form. He just seems very lacklustre atm. I don't know what it is but all that aggressive and dynamic play has faded from his game. It is a real shame.

Congrats to both reams. One of the best games of rugby I have seen in years. The Saints will be hurting as their pack was on top for much of the game. Keeping the ball through 40 phases and then drop a goal ? Great stuff.

I only saw the first half, but did feel that Saints were hard done by to not go in at half time with a lead. Both Munster tries could (should?) have been ruled out on another day; Ashton pulled back for first try and the knock on in the ruck for second plus some magnificent blocking to clear the path for Howlett.

Keeping the ball for 41 phases before slotting the DG is pretty amazing though.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

valjester wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Heaslip used to be such a dynamic ball carrier, and a real threat with the ball in hand. Where has that gone? He was one of the best 8s in the world.

Heaslip needs a break, he was rushed back from injury last year for the last two heineken matches of the group stages. POM looks very good and hopefully he will be making the Six Nations training squad.

I was impressed by murray again, one or two mistakes but very impressive and I couldn't understand why he was taken off.

He didn't seem fit during the world cup, apparently he had concussion which was why he was wearing a scrum cap. However by now he should be starting to come back to form. He just seems very lacklustre atm. I don't know what it is but all that aggressive and dynamic play has faded from his game. It is a real shame.

He needs a rest though, he seems to be playing on empty at the moment. Hopefully after next week he'll be given a few weeks off and told to go on holidays. I'm not sure whats wrong but he doesn't look himself and its really disappointing.

Maybe he has rocky elsom syndrome. Just watched a few clips of rocky from 09 and he looked so much more athletic, powerful, faster, dynamic and stronger than he did at the WC. Look at this clip for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTi_ueSNPFo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Having said that not that worried about Heaslip cause he still contributes a lot. I think Dom Ryan should be given a few more games and give Heaslip a break.

Well done to munster last night. I watched the match and it was very exciting. Thought ROG should have dropped back into pocket earlier but he did the business. Fair play.

Yeah, he looks to have lost a lot of bulk also. For Heaslip it could be partly because he no longer wears shoulder pads so looks a bit less broad.. but he looks seriously under-whelming right now.

leinsterbaby wrote:Maybe he has rocky elsom syndrome. Just watched a few clips of rocky from 09 and he looked so much more athletic, powerful, faster, dynamic and stronger than he did at the WC. Look at this clip for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTi_ueSNPFo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Having said that not that worried about Heaslip cause he still contributes a lot. I think Dom Ryan should be given a few more games and give Heaslip a break.

Well done to munster last night. I watched the match and it was very exciting. Thought ROG should have dropped back into pocket earlier but he did the business. Fair play.

Leinster could go with a backrow of kmcl, jennings and sob and it would still be stronger than most.

Rog did drop back into the pocket a few times, but the pass he got was from poc and the northampton players were up on top of him. I think it says a lot about his composure that he had the balls to take the ball on and wait until the time was right instead of rushing and taking the first chance.

It was brilliant composure from ROG. He's a freak. There's ice in his veins. POC says ROG would actually love if he was put in that position in every game. Compare that to the many 10's who turn to jelly when in that position. Some actually refuse to go into the pocket and try and play it through the backs to get a try.

"Cough" Stephen Jones in the semi "cough"

valjester wrote:

Thomond wrote:Murray is getting a bit of what I like to call "Tomás" syndrome. He is beginning to take a step or two before he passes. O'Leary did well when he came on. His passing was crisp and precise.

TOL still makes some stupid decisions for a player of his experience. That chip kick could have been suicidal.

Not sure what game you were watching Val (you seem to have an issue with TOL for some reason). Murray did well but cost us ten points with poor kicking last night. TOL upped the tempo considerably when he came on and his passing was very good. It will be between him and Murray for the irish slot.

I could see O'Leary starting next week. And Leamy too. And Chambers.

Yeah I agree. I think Chambers was very composed when he came on and did all he simple things really well. TOL seems to have his tempo back and he really speeded things up a lot. Leamy as well

Not sure what you thought of Ronan?

Wasn't all that impressed though I accept that at this stage he could score 50 points and I'd find the flaws in his game. What sticks out for me is his butchering an absolutely guaranteed try scoring situation with a needless forward pass. As big a blunder as Artymev.

I was impressed by Wian du Preez; a guy I don't normally rate. I'd keep O'Callaghan on the bench.

Du Preez, Varley, Botha
Ryan, O'Connell (c)
Leamy, Coughlan, O'Mahony
O'Leary, O'Gara
Mafi, Chambers,
Hurley, Murphy, Howlett

Fogarty, Ryan, Hayes, O'Callaghan, Ronan, Murray, Keatley, Barnes

Also - wasn't impressed by Botha and from a Saints point of view I thought the scrum and lineout were both impressive. I thought your 10-12 channel was fairly weak defensively. Dowson ahead of Clark next time I should say.

I agree about DOC..it will annoy him and he is a person who will find that unacceptable...which will only be food for us.
I think POM should go to 7 he was a wrecking ball at the breakdown last night...once he is kept fit...

Place was hopping last night it was a great atmosphere. The forward display had Anthony Foley written all over it.

All we have done is given ourselves an outside chance I think but lots of raw material to work on.

red_stag wrote:Also - wasn't impressed by Botha and from a Saints point of view I thought the scrum and lineout were both impressive. I thought your 10-12 channel was fairly weak defensively. Dowson ahead of Clark next time I should say.

To be fair I thought Botha dealt particularly well with Northampton's monster scrum of Tongauiha, Mujati and Hartley. Nobody gets the better of that scrum through the course of 80 mins and in fairness to BJ he won key penalties against Tongauiha.

I think you are being harsh on Botha stag...on a couple of occassions he did not collapse the scrum while going backwards forcing the saints to play the ball and he did force a couple of penalties/free kicks off them.

Thats true but about the park in general. I dunno, I just would expect better.

I thought Boatha was really impressive. Never once popped up, didnt drop but held his ground. Imagine if Mushy was playing????

The Saints scrum might have been preceived to be going forward but how often did the engage early. Another ref and Munster could have had 2 or 3 free kicks.

Munster left 10 points behind them and gifted Saints another 10.

Overall all very pleased with the win and the performance. Alot to build on here.

And finally 41 phases of play finished off by ROG just incredible

BlueMuff,
I think it a little over the top to think it could have been Munster by 20+ points. It was a great win by Munster, and to close it out like that is class.

But I thought the referee was pretty even. There were times Saints could, or maybe should, have been pinged at the scrum. But also thought there were times some Munster players were napping on top of the rucks and might have had a hand in there too. But overall no match changers for either team. And I was glad the referee let some things go. Made for a better match. I think the score was pretty reflective of the teams on the day. The big question is whether Saints can pull one off at home. Pressure is now on them.

Two well matched sides going at it. The biggest opportunity spurned was artemievs and that would have been close to game over. Immense comeback from munster and rog ice cold as always

tol's service did look a bit sharper but reddan is still a better scrum half. He made a huge difference yesterday when he came on. Marshall arguably had the best game of all scrum halves for ulster.

Owens had a few dodgy calls for both sides.

red_stag wrote:Also - wasn't impressed by Botha

Really stag? I thought he was awesome and has contributed more in the last few games for Munster than he did all last season for Ulster. He gave Tonga'uiha a real tough ride in the scrum.

I thought Murray was very good actually and TOL looked very sharp when he has came on. Munster need to improve but I would stick with the same players.

POM and Ryan were superb I thought. That was te best I've seen Ryan play and he seems to be emerging as a real leader for Munster.

Maybe I'm too demanding of Botha. I only watched game live. I thought he coughed up 2-3 penalties and didn't see much of him about the park. When I saw we brought on John Hayes against Northampton scrum I probably assumed it was down to poor issues. I thought he was better against Leinster.

Yes Ryans doing ok. I think there's life in O'Callaghan yet but Ryan must start next week.

Interestingly from the pack who started last night only one single player (Paul O'Connell) started the Heineken Cup final of 2008. In 3 years thats a lot of change to our starting pack for a must win game.

True, stag, but some of it enforced, fla, wally...

If any munster fans are considering going to the game next week without a ticket, they will definitely get a ticket over here. A lot of Castres fans are boycotting the match in protest off it being moved to Toulouse so there should be plenty of room which is unfortunate as it may be played in an empty stadium.

I thought that was a very impressive performance from Saints, who were unlucky not to win. It'll take Artemyev some time to get over butchering that try.

For me that was a step up from any performance in their unbeaten run to the final last season, and if Munster scrummage like that again at FG there will be yellows and penalties aplenty.

DaveM you failed to see that much of Saints perceived go forward movement in the scrum resulted from the engaging early. Another ref and Munster would have had 3/4 free kicks.

Dont remember Du Preez or Botha dropping or popping up.

Also another ref would have penalised Saints maul for going absolutely nowhere. The whinnging from Saints management and supporters alike is very suprising.

Saints butchered a try scoring opportunity but so did Munster before half time.

Lastly Northampton have given up home advantage by moving the game to MKs. For this Munster may have Earls and Felix Jones back

Have they ever lost at the MK stadium though Blue?

Didn’t they beat Munster there 2 years ago?

Mick they beat us in Franklin Gardens.

They played Ulster and Perpignan there last year in the knockout stages.

Ah yes, spot on. they’re mad to move it then, they might be unbeaten there but they’ve only played 2 games.

It might make a few bob for them, but that wouldn’t matter much if they lose out on the QFs…

Mickado wrote:Ah yes, spot on. they’re mad to move it then, they might be unbeaten there but they’ve only played 2 games.

It might make a few bob for them, but that wouldn’t matter much if they lose out on the QFs…

To be honest Mick I was at the Quarter Final last year at MKS and the Saints were very well supported in their home game. I didn't think there was any disadvantage in them having the game there. (Although this was forced on them by ERC capacity rules). Can't see a lot of difference between that and Leinster using Landsdowne or the London Clubs using Twickenham IMO.

I don’t know Rav, Leinster using Lansdowne means that punters can drink in the same bars, have the same routine etc. they just have 5 mins less or more of a walk to the stadium depending on which side they’re coming from. MK is 20 miles outside of NH, I just think that amount of change can make things feel like an away game. I’m sure the support will still be big for them, but Munster have a reputation of always getting a lot of tickets and I wouldn’t be surprised if after a good run in the HC they pack the MK stadium out with red jerseys.

Muff

I disagree re the Saints scrum. It isnt that they engage early but their 9 rarely puts the ball in unless they win the hit and will delay the put in till it goes down. They got away with this a lot last season and i see that continuing

I have been in the FGs and quiet frankly (pardon the pun) its the noisiest ground Ive ever been too including Welford road and Kingsholm. The crowd are right on top of the pitch on for a full 80 minutes they sang Oh and the Saints......

As a Munster fan Im delighted its not in the FGs.

One of the most pleasing things for me this season is to see the return of the Munster maul, offensively and defensively.

It's obviously something that Axel has decided needs to come back into the call book and I for one am delighted.

Now if we could only get back to a nice balance of running / kicking and reduce the number of stupid box kicks that at best will gain you 10 metres and at worst mean you turn the ball over.

I just fail to undetstand the box kick. Murray must have done it half a dozen times on Sat.

I think our aim now has to be winning all matches until MK Stadium and hope Saints lose on the road.

Mickado, speaking to Saints fans that day, they didn't see it as anything other than a home game.

Blue, I think you will be impressed with the atmosphere in the MKS. Hope you get a decent seat.

red_stag wrote:I just fail to undetstand the box kick. Murray must have done it half a dozen times on Sat.

I think our aim now has to be winning all matches until MK Stadium and hope Saints lose on the road.

Yes - if we can get to the last game with 5 wins out of 5 we should be in a position of guaranteed best runner up. This group will most likely come down to BPs. If we can pick some one or two along the way we should be in a strong position.

However we have tough games away in France and Wales so nothing should be taken for granted.

Standulstermen wrote:Muff

I disagree re the Saints scrum. It isnt that they engage early but their 9 rarely puts the ball in unless they win the hit and will delay the put in till it goes down. They got away with this a lot last season and i see that continuing

Interesting and smart, doesnt seem anything illegal in that - but for me they did seem to get a shove on before Munster had engaged. Definietly will be watching out for this though.

amazed they moved it as well especially for a group game. never been in it but it look like a cracking little stadium.

botha did well do hold things up under serious pressure. yes he went backwards a few times but woe betide buckley was up against the Northampton scrum.

they are a nightmare to scrummage against. If it is illegal nobody seems to have copped it yet. They do have phenomenal power even if they do bend the laws on occasions.

I think it is a mistake by NH to move stadiums with so many Irish people living in the area who will turn up and support Munster.

Really good news today - Wally was back running last week. At that rate, there is a good chance he will be back for that game and with Earls back then, Munster might not be the walkover that the Saints expect.

dublin_dave wrote: They do have phenomenal power even if they do bend the laws on occasions.

And is there a team which does not bend or break the occasional law? Never on purpose, mind.......

Sounds like a great game, gutted i missed it.

Can anyone tell me how Callum Clark played. I really thought he'd kick on a few years ago but it doesn't seem to have happened. O'Mahoney (sp?) sounds like ANOTHER good Irish backrower.

He seems to have cut down on the cheap shots and doesn't give as many stupid penalties. He did get deliberate offside from knock-ons a couple of times. Difficult one for the guy but if he just let it hit him instead of catching it it would probably have been accidental and a scrum.

I wasn't impressed by Clark. I thought Dowson did very well when he came on.

I'd be thinking Dowson, Wood, Wilson as the best backrow.

BlueMuff wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Muff

I disagree re the Saints scrum. It isnt that they engage early but their 9 rarely puts the ball in unless they win the hit and will delay the put in till it goes down. They got away with this a lot last season and i see that continuing

Interesting and smart, doesnt seem anything illegal in that - but for me they did seem to get a shove on before Munster had engaged. Definietly will be watching out for this though.

I have been saying this for ages now, and it still boils my pee. If you watch the Northampton scrum they will always have at least one player who will stand up. It is usually Dylan Hartley, but the other two are not averse to doing it aswell. What this does, is, that it stops the dominant front row from being able to push forward and as a result causes the other front row to stand up and the scrum becomes such a mess that the ref just wants the ball out of there. To me this is a new form of cheating, and I cannot see how Northampton get away with it so much, I have even seen this tactic being used by England. This is very frustrating and the way the sky comentators wax lyrical about the Northampton scrum as being the best in the business also winds me up, because if they did not use this tactic they would not be as formidable, it is up to the referee to put a stop to this and it is about time they did

DaveM wrote:

For me that was a step up from any performance in their unbeaten run to the final last season, and if Munster scrummage like that again at FG there will be yellows and penalties aplenty.

Nigel ownes on twitter:

wrench86
@
@Nigelrefowens my prob in general, is that the scrum as an attacking weapon is being destroyed by bad interpretations of front row play
55 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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Nigel Owens
@Nigelrefowens Nigel Owens
@wrench86 well I dont agree there. If you scrummage legal you will be rewarded the teams were told this before the game