Zac Guilford walks into a bar naked...

And attacks two patrons. It would be safe to assume this boy has a drinking problem. He lost his father a couple of years ago and he´s only 22 but he needs to face up to this problem. The NZRFU is taking the approach that the kid needs help and instead of disciplining him will try to find ways to help him. Whilst I think that approach is admirable in some ways, I can´t help but think it sends out the wrong message in other ways. Rugby is supposed to be a thugs´game played by gentlemen but drinking is often a way those very gentlemen can slip all too easily into being thugs again.

Guilford is representative of the AB jersey. This kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Should he escape punishment? How big a problem is drinking in the rugby culture?

I thought this was the start of a good joke...!

Not good at all, poor Zac Guildford, well done NZRFU for being understanding when the player needs it most.

I did think about it...

Did he attack some bikers and say 'I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle'?

Oh, I'm thinking of the start of Terminator 2

Nice to know someone is behind him,they had similar problems with Jimmy Cowan.IF they can get the kid of the booze he could be a great AllBlack.

Alcoholism is a very sad disease with little cure unless you want to help yourself.

I didn't know Jimmy Cowan had similar problems. It is great to see the NZRFU be so mature about this, instead of ignoring the issue and trying to hide it.

The worst thing in the world is to make fun of it or pretend it doesn't exist, both only make a very sad and depressing life for everyone.

Sadly at the end of the day only the person concerned can beat addiction.
BUT,support from friends and family can help.

It is said that alcohol can bring some down so low to do some think like this.

I realy do hope he gets help to fight this. Like emack2 a=has said support from family friends is all ways a help.

Good luck Zac.

Lock him up there is no excuse for assaulting innocent people who are having a quiet drink.

Nowhere near such a heinous crime as dwarf tossing though is it?

Obvious problems with the lad alcohol can bring on severe mental problems with his Fathers death not so long ago that can't help.

Going naked in public and not even realizing it is a classic sign of psychosis, even extremely mentally ill people see the sense in putting on clothes.

Quite a sensitive post view, fair play Can't help feeling it would be vastly different if *inset England players name here* did this.......

Breadvan wrote:Quite a sensitive post view, fair play Can't help feeling it would be vastly different if *inset England players name here* did this.......

Agreed i wonder if he will be fined 25K and banned from international rugby?

The kid admitted he had a drinking problem so why would he put himself in a situation where there was tonnes of drink at his disposal?

I don't think cory janes helping by suggesting he should party wiser.
The guy has an obvious problem and this latest episode is not your average night out even for non sport stars. Assault?
Some people never have a good ending with the booze and he looks to be the type who needs to abstain completely, All Black or not.

Was there a dwarf throwing contest going on?

Not a good situation for the young fella. I was speaking to my brother back home and a couple of his friends know Zac and have said he and his family have addictive personalities. Zac's other vice is gambling and he's run up some debts in the past. Losing your father during what should have been (up to that point in your life) your greatest sporting moment (Under 20's WC final) wouldn't have helped the situation.

If he had problems whilst at the Hurricanes you can almost see why he headed south to the Crusaders and their environment. Maybe he knew then he had a problem and ChCh would have been the best place and culture to overcome it. Sadly it hasn't happened that way.

I'm just glad the NZRFU haven't hung him out to dry like they did with Norm Hewitt back in the day.

Not sure whether New Zealand rugby Union does this, but in south africa there is a focus on teachng these young professional sports atars life skills as well.

How to handle success and money. Well so i have heard, not exactly sure how they do it though.

EnginAuck he was at a wedding so there was always going to be booze around him. However it was his choice to indulge.

I remember the Hewitt thing. Embarrassing for all involved.

Hope the public remembers he's a role model for his actions on the pitch rather than off it. You don't have to be a perfect human being to be a model sportsperson. Just hope he gets the help he needs.

Times it seems change,Cowan,and Luaki they[NZRFU} helped tho Luaki went overseas.Keith Murdoch.Norm Hewitt,and Ron Rangi got the other side of the stick they were hung out to dry but that was amateur days.
Some sort of judicial hearing,is certain when full fact emerge he may have an Assault charge to answer.
Hopefully with the right Professional help/support he will sort himself out,whether he ever plays again ?

I think it´s a good thing the NZRU is taking a conciliatory role with him and not stepping in like they did with Norm Hewitt. That said however, I´d still like to see some sort of punishment given to him once the facts are collected. Doug Howlett has had problems with alcohol in the past but he got fined. This case should be no different but support should be given as well.

It´s an interesting point about the amateur days. I never rose any great heights in my rugby playing days but I sure did get way over and off my head off the field on a good deal of occasions. I wouldn´t want to see a zero policy of alcohol for professional athletes but I can´t help but feel there is still a heavy emphasis on the drinking culture in rugby despite the advent of professionalism. Big boys can pack away big quantities and that sometimes can cause big problems.

To be honest even if that was an English player i wouldn't stick the boot in because of the obvious mental health issue,i have never found it funny to make fun over something that people can't help.

He has also been accused of riding a scooter dangerously and making inappropriate comments to a local triathlete.

Sometimes I think we can go too far in excusing poor behaviour. This is the third time in a few months that Guilford has been called up on this. This appears to be the worst incident and hopefully is a wake up call to Guilford as to how serious this problem is. But I don´t think it´s unavoidable. Despite what his drinking bud Jane says, this is clear evidence that Guilford shouldn´t drink at all. It´s not a matter of choosing when to drink and party.

Flip hell as they say. He's got more than alcohol problems if you ask me. Makes the England team and Andy Powell look like naughty schoolkids!

EngInAuck wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Quite a sensitive post view, fair play Can't help feeling it would be vastly different if *inset England players name here* did this.......

Agreed i wonder if he will be fined 25K and banned from international rugby?

The kid admitted he had a drinking problem so why would he put himself in a situation where there was tonnes of drink at his disposal?

Just thought i should clear up , the comment was about the terrible decisions that the RFU made towards Tindall , i wasn't suggesting that Guilford should get the same treatment.

Maybe Tindall should have blamed his whole situation on Alcoholism.......

Zac wasn't drunk when i asked for/Accepted his first drink so he would have known full well what he was doing. He has only got himself to blame . And the question has to be asked where were his mates in all this ? Surely someone at the wedding should have stopped him drinking if they knew he had a problem?

Cymroglan wrote:Lock him up there is no excuse for assaulting innocent people who are having a quiet drink.

Quite right, the French should be ashemed of interupting Englands drinking tour.

Comparing Zac and his situation to Tindall and some of the antics of the England players is a bit disgusting to me.. Tindall etc I doubt have an alcohol problem, they just wanted to go out and party. I think Zac has gone off the rails a bit however, he is a young man who lost his father a few years ago in the final of the U20s RWC. That would have a pretty negative effect on his life, and I know people in similar situations who have succumbed to drink/drugs in these situations.

There is no comparison with Tindall. That was an ill-advised boys night out more akin to a stag night than a few quiets after a narrow escape after Argentina.

Guilford has slipped up 3 times in a few months and this is by far the worst incident. There could well be criminal charges to face. Tindall at best might get the corgies set on him when he´s sleeping.

I feel for the kid as I know what it´s like to lose a parent when you´re young but someone has to sit him down and tell him drink is off the menu because this obviously his addictive personality prevents him from moderating his intake of alcohol and he will end up either hurting himself or someone else.

Kia
you're right, there is no comparison Zac's an All Black Tindell isn't.

We might hear a bit more though on how Gillford left Raro in the early hours of this morning, Escorted out through a hangar at Avarua, into a Sky Chef truck, driven across the tarmac , loaded onto the plane on the opposite side to terminal, meanwhile the plane was delayed while all this took place....

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Comparing Zac and his situation to Tindall and some of the antics of the England players is a bit disgusting to me.. Tindall etc I doubt have an alcohol problem, they just wanted to go out and party. I think Zac has gone off the rails a bit however, he is a young man who lost his father a few years ago in the final of the U20s RWC. That would have a pretty negative effect on his life, and I know people in similar situations who have succumbed to drink/drugs in these situations.

Totally agreed - let's leave the boy alone. This is the difference between lads who like a drink (Tindal) and people who cannot live without a drink to get them through the day (it appears Guilford).

I know people in both situtations and there's no need to embarrass them even more than they've embarrassed themselves. Trust me, they know already.

Although my wife says she would have loved to have at least been in the bar to have a good look.

Right so we all know for certain that Tindall doesnt have a drink or other emotional problem?

George Guildford doesn't seem to have a dependence, he's just really loose when he does drink and hasn't learned his lessons yet. I don't think he's stashing a six pack in the bathroom just yet. Glad he's stopping though-one more time means potentially one more disaster and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised to see his contract torn up.

Disney - I agree.

Whilst it's his talent to waste, there's a hell of a lot of it to flush down the cr@pper.

Zac Guilford walks into a bar...part 2...

After fooling some...though mainly himself... that he was capable of a 'social drink' hes at it again...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/8201974/Zac-Guildford-in-doubt-after-new-incident

Youve been told it several times...use your ears...never means never.

He's a youngster who has money and fame and those are three very dangerous things combined.

I haven't read that the police are involved so I doubt it's a criminal matter.... A la Danny care.

I'm sure it's beyond social drinking but let's be honest.... Most people who go to uni end up defacto alcoholics anyhow... I.e. drinking everyday for 3-4 years and getting in a whole load of trouble/fun...depending on which side of the line you end up on. Through part luck and part having good friends and being a good friend (I hope) myself I have been fortunate to sidestep problems which arise from taking it one step too far... Left to my own devices or if someone had an agenda against me/could have made some money out of an incident with me, I'm sure I would have crossed that line many times.

I have sympathy for any kid who has to sit on the sidelines and watch their peers party for the greater good... I.e. being a pro rugby player. We're all perfect in hindsight but without that luxury were merely human and make mistakes.

I work with a guy who gets thrown out of every other bar he goes into... He's notorious for it...if his clients knew this they'd never work with him again... But he isn't in the public eye and in all other parts of his life he's 100% professional.

Personally I still think that people in the public eye and sports stars deserve a little privacy... If its impacting his career then any employer has a right to intervene... If not its not their business... If he wants to dress up in women's clothing and join a caberet during his time off then if that's his choice then fine by me... If it has zero impact on his employer who are we to say otherwise.

He's had it this time, a season with Hawkes Bay. Can't see anyone in Europe wanting him.

normal rugby lad- whats the problem.??

i will add.

firstly i hate the media culture of making money out of things like this.. I also dont like judging the person too much-Does any off us know him?

I have heard people saying he is totally mad walking about naked. No its probally more that he was ubber drunk..

This sort of behaviourf happens in rugby..

The kid may or may not have a major problem.

However he is very lucky to still have a quality carrer and he will have the backing of loads of people that want him to get better..

The average 22 year old that has issues has none of that!

Guildford would probably fit in quite nicely in the Wales team. He would probably be considered shy. Just kidding welshies.

Dont know whether to laugh or feel sorry for him. Hope he doesnt completly throw his career away. Must be pretty hard to get thrashed and train the next day.

Yet the average 22 year old isn't expected to act like a monk and a role model to millions (out of no choice of their own). These guys aren't paid that well.. they're not footballers.

If the average 22 year old is not getting themselves into a whole load of trouble on a daily basis I imagine much of the general public would see them as abnormal.

What I hate about the general public (me included) and sportsmen is that we put them on this pedestal and expect them to be super-human in everything they do. Don't drink, Don't party, don't get in trouble, sign autographs until everyone has had their shirt signed (leave one and you're arrogant), be friendly to random people coming up to you.

Added to that and half the folk out their have no sympathy of these people doing things which under normal circumstances would make these people legends amongst their peers.

"How dare this person do XXXX... they get paid don't they... I would it for free and would sacrifice everything to be a bok/kiwi etc etc etc".

In remember watching a short film on John Kirwan about his battles with depression. How his mates would just say.... look you're a AB, millions can only dream of being you, what you got to be depressed about?? Didn't make him any better.

For me, pro rugby players shouldn't be seen any different to any guy at the top of their professional be it city bankers or barristers. Take that into account and his behaviour should not be judged with such high standards.

If a barrister turns up to work hungover/drunk then sure - repremand him. Same with a rugby player. If his behaviour in the off season, outside of the office etc does not impact his work then we shouldn't bat an eyelid.

In all fairness Fa rugby players do earn good money by anyones standards and are in a position of great responsibility especially when representing their country. Anyone who represents their country is surely expected to have a fairly wholesome public profile.

In this day in age its not just rugby players that can cop a load of flak if they do something stupid on a night out.

Recently in Dublin a young girl 17 years of age got drunk and went to a pizza place where some guys started to hassle her. Stupidly she started insulting them back while they recorded her on one of their phones. They caught her on camera calling them plebs and saying that her dad is the highest paid partner in KPMG etc. The clip went viral and she made the second page of the Sunday independant. Overnight the poor girl became a real target for ridicule and spite and her parents copped a lot of flak.

On the surface this would appear to be a man who has significant mental health issues and the alcohol is symptom not the disease. Requires support not condemnation

Sometimes condemnation is support. Saying its OK and accepting peoples behaviour doesnt help them or those who have to deal with it.

Nor does making a special case of people because of the already privileged position they hold. Oh youre a young man with no commitments, a dick load of money and adoration of millions...of course its perfectly reasonable for you to cause trouble for others in a way we wouldnt accept from anyone else.

This behaviour also does have an effect on his employer, so it is their business to get involved..as well as that of the supporting public. The All Blacks image is very important to them, even just in terms of winning sponsorship which keeps rugby vaguely solvent in NZ. A player drinking and behaving in this manner is also not going to be maximising his ability to train and reach fitness goals (yeah at least its the off season)
There ware ways to relax without getting so drunk you end up in the papers, there ware ways to deal with emotional problems from whatever boohoo story you have that dont involve being a grade A div.
At some point, whatever other help he gets, the player himself has to face up to his choices and make a decision on the way he wants to lead his life and what he thinks is acceptable. if that doesnt tally with what other people believe is acceptable then we have every right to say hes acting like a nobber as we would anyone else who did things like that or who is a problem drinker.

Yeah hes hardly alone in this kind of behaviour in the rugby world.

Sums it up for me more or less.

I agree SBW. He needs to sort it and telling everyone pre Xmas he can now socially drink is still a form of denial. When I heard that my first reaction was 'when will we hear about the next one'.

Have to admit for it to come less than a month later means all hes done is effectively convinced himself that the public has accepted his comments re the social drinking, allowing him to drop his guard and now, from reports, hes been in a fist fight.

He can play professional rugby or live a normal party up and drink hard life like most other 22 year olds and watch the game. Its a simple choice. Everyones made it crystal clear he cant do both.
He just needs to make that decision before its made for him.

Everyone goes on about the intrusion into his life and that rugby should stay away given its outside his job.

But when an All Black gets behind the car an kills someone who gets it then if the employer does nothing besides the poor sod in front of the car.

Its not just the one offs, its the potential for the worst case scenario, and understably, an outfit like the ABs just doesnt need to be dealing with this hassle when it has far better things to do.

I really cant see how the NZRFU can do anything but rip up his AB contract, this continued bad press will do nothing but dissuade any further potential sponsors, thus leaving adidas and Aig in a stronger position to play hard ball.

New Zealand has more than enough quality wingers running around in Super rugby.

The tough question now is, what does Todd Blackadder do?

read it a few times in the autobiograhies released last year: you're an All Black always. Sure he may be doing what other people his age are doing, but he's an All Black and with that comes certain expectations. And with other wingers just as good as him he's no great loss

Thats right Dally...and you'd think someone who realises his chances of making the AB's are slim at best without any othet issues, would focus 100% on that, and would leave no possibility of headlining the papers again...unless of course...he had a drinking problem.

Perhaps he and Jessie Ryder can discuss it over a beer one time... or should I say... a Dilmah...

Good to see the NZRFU get behind helping him with alcoholism, although he does sound like he has a lot more deep seated issues than just going OTT on the sauce. There are a lot of very good porgrams out there these days.

As for attacking 2 people. Regardless of intoxication at the time, he has to go through due procedure and punished to the fullest extent. It would be carte blanche to all other full contact sportsmen to get lashed and give someone a hiding.

Alistair - Zac should get punished for gbh yes- but thats a criminal matter. but i doubt he will get punished to the full extent- that would mean jail time!!