Biarritz vs Saracens -Heineken Cup, Pool 5, Round 2. General Discussion.

This is a crunch game. The double Heineken Cup finalists vs the English champions.

As whocares pointed out big blow for Biarritz already with the loss of Yachvilli.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16602/7309220/Yachvili-blow-for-Biarritz

Who will be playing scrum half for Biarritz?

Biarritz are no longer a particularly good team. Back in 2005(?) when they lost to Munster at the MS - they had the potential to be a great team - but seemed unable to play for the full 80. Mind you that year they were good enough to beat tigers twice only playing for 4o minutes each game.

Nowadays they are a team you should expect to beat at home, and hope to beat away.

But Sarries are a team that seem to struggle to turn clear superiority into an avalanche of points (excluding Welford Road in earlier this season). This suggests it could be a tight game - so yes BO will miss Yachvili.

For marketing reasons Sarries have not made this campaign easy for themselves - playing Ospreys at Wembley and BO in SA. They really need a win before the double header with Ospreys.

LondonTiger very true.

Saracens will prefer playing at those two venues than VR. As you know our away record is very good.

We haven't lost away from home in about 11 games I believe.

Admittedly we should have done better against Worcester,Newcastle and Sale when we were comfortably winning but everything is still rosy.

2nd in the AP, 10 points clear of 3rd. 5 points from first HC game.

A tight game suits us. In these last two seasons the difference between Saracens and other sides has been our ability to win whatever the circumstances most of the time. In the AP anyway.

I feel we are a stronger side than last season.

beshocked wrote:Who will be playing scrum half for Biarritz?

probably some bloke called YANN LESGOURGUES - 20 year old who played 6 games as 1st choice this season (during the RWC till the 41-0 defeat by clermont) and 4 last one - havent seen him play.

yeah doesnt sound good for biarritz - if they dont win this one, they will give up and who knows what team they will be sending to South Africa in january.

Biarritz has a serious lack of strengh on his bench and also not much quality young blood coming in.

Whocares you seem to be very knowledgeable. Who do you support?

Is Yann Lesgourges any good?

If he's only 20 who have they got on the bench?!

Admittedly we are in a similar boat. Obviously Richard Wigglesworth is out for the season. Our other frontline scrum half Neil De Kock went off after only 17 minutes vs Treviso.

Ben Spencer, 19 year old had to play most of the game. Didn't do too badly though.

Whocares is from Paris so I'll take a stab at Stade Francais?

Biarritz are struggling for form in the Top 14 at the moment, and are desperate to get things rolling on the domestic front. Wouldn't be surprised if you saw a deliberately weakened side here if they decide to focus on Top 14 and rest key players (after all that is where their bread & butter lies).

But.... they are a proud side... and this could be effectively the last roll of the dice for them in the HEC. They may come out all guns blazing. If they don't win this one they may well treat the rest of the pool fixtures as a development opportunity and field junior players.

Kind of how we all treat the LV.

Metal Tiger I can't see Biarritz resting players! They lost of O's but picked up the losing bonus point which could be crucial. They are traditionally one of the French sides that tries hardest in the HC.

Lots of pressure on Biarritz though in my opinion. If they lose to Saracens they are effectively out of Europe. Also they really need a win just for confidence's sake. They need to build momentum and what better way than beating the English champions? This is of course why the loss of Yachvili is so great.

There is every chance that Biarritz will come out fighting. They have good players but you feel that if they fall behind the weight of expectation might be too much.

From a Saracens point of view this is a game where we need to hit Biarritz hard and quickly. Keeping the French crowd quiet is half the battle in my opinion.

Biarritz are currently last in the Top 14, with only one win out of nine matches. I think this is a match where Saracens need to pick up the away win before (if?) Biarritz start playing better. And based on current form, Saracens should win. But this could be a real trap game for them.

Doctor grey I absolutely agree.

beshocked wrote:Whocares you seem to be very knowledgeable. Who do you support?

Is Yann Lesgourges any good?

If he's only 20 who have they got on the bench?!

Admittedly we are in a similar boat. Obviously Richard Wigglesworth is out for the season. Our other frontline scrum half Neil De Kock went off after only 17 minutes vs Treviso.

Ben Spencer, 19 year old had to play most of the game. Didn't do too badly though.

dont know much about Lescourgues to be honest since I dont follow that much biarritz. I was actually a cabbg follower ( begles - bordeaux team that had its glory days in the early 90s with nasty players like moscato and simon) which is now called UBBG (the ones who got thrashed last weekend by wasps ). although I live around paris, no way am gonna support Stade Français primadonnas and I actually go on time to time to watch racing metro games.

agree with metal tiger, biarritz players are full of pride and wont throw the game in front of their crowd.50/50 games methinks. great chance for the sarries to top the group and get a home qf nicely lined up.

Beshocked.

What are your thoughts on Brits being banned for 3 weeks for his dangerous tackle against Treviso? He pleaded guilty and the citing panel deamed it a mid entry point 6 week ban but reduced it by 50% for his clean record and remorse.

That's got to be a blow for Sarries. He misses this weekends Biarritz game and the next two premiership matches.

Metal Tiger

My thoughts are that Brits deserved to be banned. 3 weeks is correct in my opinion. It was a dangerous tackle and did look bad but you can see no malicious intent. As soon as Brits did it he checked the Treviso bloke was alright.

It's a shame he'll miss 3 games but it happens.

Surprisingly I don't think it is really a blow. We have John Smit and Jamie George. No introductions needed for Smit but Jamie George looks like a really good young prospect at hooker. Ex England U20 and doesn't look out of place in his appearances.

Brits hasn't been his normally stellar self. Maybe Smit's arrival has disheartened him. I don't know.

Of course if Smit or George get injured....

read that Nigel Owens will be the ref.

He is a pretty good ref. Fingers crossed he makes no big mistakes.

Biarritz win leaves the group separated by one point between three teams.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15725575.stm

maestegmafia wrote:Biarritz win leaves the group separated by one point between three teams.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15725575.stm

This is going to be the hardest to predict a winner out of all the groups

wonder if Short will be Cited for his choker move on the biarritz #2, hope he doesn't because, the amount of play acting he did annoys the hell out of me!

I haven't responded till now because I was in Biarritz watching the game.

First things first well done Biarritz. Great fans,great atmosphere. Shame about the result but we are still top (just on points difference).

Fair play to Maestegmafia and Morgannwg for not gloating. I got it wrong.

I felt a bit disappointed as we held Biarritz in check in the first half with excellent defence but gave away two soft tries in the 2nd half when I felt we were in control.

Opportunities came and went.

In regards to the Short choke hold, very true Nathan. It was silly of Short to do it. He's a bit inexperienced and hot headed. He let the occasion get to him. The Biarritz no 2 won't get much sympathy though I am sure!

Positives
Defence in the first half was verging on heroic.
Not as blunt in attack as one would expect. Close to scoring on a few occasions. Just needed to make that last pass.
Never say never - got the losing bonus point.
Saracens supporters made themselves heard.

Negatives
Very poor set piece. Never seen it that poor for some time.
Hopeless tackling for the two soft tries.


Harinorduquy was immense as usual. With him back Biarritz are a different type of beast to the one that has lost so many matches in the Top 14.


Knackeredknees I still am convinced we will prevail.

Opportunity lost though in my opinion. We have a tougher away game we must win now - Ospreys away.

welcome back Beshocked - hope you had a nice weekend away there!

LBP is a not a bad result for saracens keeping in mind Ospreys draw in Italy so in all logic they could still afford another LBP loss and still finish 1st.

Thanks whocares. Yup I had a really good time.

The LBP is alright but I believe it's an opportunity missed. I am looking at the bigger picture. We need a home quarter if we are going to stand a chance in this competition. That's why we need to win the rest of our games.

Biarritz is a great town, I am sure you had a good time.

Unlucky with the result but its nigh on impossible down there with a good crowd behind them.

Lets look forward to the next round.

The Ospreys result wasnt the best, but in hindsight at least we came away with something, Treviso are a very good team at home, you cant rest on your laurrels.

Going to be a cracker of a pool, no one is guaranteed an away win anywhere. BPs will count.

I did have a great time thanks maestegmafia.

Harinorduquy was their shining beacon.

Yes I am looking forward to the next round. Very interesting.

After two rounds I would say we hold a very narrow advantage with the two bonus points in the bag.

It makes it intriguing because even Treviso aren't out of the competition yet! If they can beat Biarritz twice....

that would be 2 big IFs but let's see.

as far as home QFs are concerned, it's still potentially achievable for saracens (and maybe biarritz) as appart from maybe Leinster (unless Bath gets all their players back) and the blues not a lot of teams seem to have an easy ride in their pool (Munster and scarlets had both a very good start but they have to play each other now, Toulouse has to play the Harlequins etc...).

beshocked wrote:I did have a great time thanks maestegmafia.

Harinorduquy was their shining beacon.

Yes I am looking forward to the next round. Very interesting.

After two rounds I would say we hold a very narrow advantage with the two bonus points in the bag.

It makes it intriguing because even Treviso aren't out of the competition yet! If they can beat Biarritz twice....

I think in the celtic league we have learnt that you can not guaranty anything with Treviso, they can be a real thorn one minute and roll over like puppies the next.

Agree that Sarries have done very well to get their two BPs. That makes the difference in the group. But now the real fight for them starts, bring it on...!


That is said with an amazingly large dose of pseudo confidence what with current Ospreys form...

Beshocked,

Unlucky at the weekend bro, thought Sarries made a fight of it but Biarritz at home, they may be struggling elsewhere but they were always going to front up here.

Still... Sarries top the group with everything still to play for.

Thanks Metal Tiger. It's a shame but Biarritz were very hungry. They were at home and now have all their world cup boys back so are much stronger than their Top 14 standings would suggest.

Yes everything to play for. Glad to see Tigers won too. You aren't down and out yet.

Yes everything to play for. Glad to see Tigers won too. You aren't down and out yet

With two wins from two games I should say not.

I missed the game, what happened with the Short choke incident?

Sam I mean that I think the Aironi game was a point lost. It could be crucial in a tight pool.

You'll need at least a losing bonus point vs Clermont.

The Short choke incident happened just after he thought he had scored a try. Unfortunately he had been held up. It should have been a five metre scrum to saracens (we were 15-3 at this point.) The Biarritz players had been winding up Short throughout the game and allegedly the no 2 Benoit August had tugged on his leg/stepped on his foot.

Short with tempers high didn't react to this well and essentially did a throat grab/choke hold on the Biarritz no 2 Benoit August who went down as if someone in the crowd had shot him.

Short was stupid as he let the occasion get to him but the way August play acted was silly. The Biarritz crowd bayed for blood but Short wasn't given a sin bin. Unfortunately though the penalty for Saracens was reversed and Biarritz cleared their lines.

He shouldn't get a ban but should get a talking to from the Saracens management as a try then for Saracens could have turned the game.

Sounds like the ref got it about right then. The atmosphere in Biarritz can be intense and he is a young player, let's face it more experienced players have lost their temper in similar situations. He'll be kicking himself for it anyway.

That's my perspective Sam. I went to the game and that's my personal viewpoint. Obviously I have my special Saracens branded tinted spectacles on.

Yeah Nigel Owens had a pretty good game IMO. He made mistakes for both sides but it's tough being a ref.