Martin Johnson quits...

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... RFU Statement due any time now

LittleTrevsmall happy meal,I like your debating style.Please do not get your hopes up for the 6N's.On second thoughts,get your hopes up.England are in a good place and have a great team so,yeah,go for it!

Taff

Its you, hope i am well

I was better being you as me than i ever was being me as me

I am as confused as an England fan but I would NEVER live in Eastbourne

Taffineastbourne wrote:England have Rob Andrew and Wales have Pickering.Both come across as self-serving sleaze-balls.Unpleasant people who hopefully one day will get what is due.

Stunningly accurate comparison.

In fairness to Rob Andrew - at least he's a self serving sleaze-ball with a few brain cells.

Gatts,Eastbourne aint so bad.Or am I you?Not as much rain as Abertillery but there are more English around here.Got to take the smooth with the rough,I suppose!

Taffineastbourne wrote:LittleTrevsmall happy meal,I like your debating style.Please do not get your hopes up for the 6N's.On second thoughts,get your hopes up.England are in a good place and have a great team so,yeah,go for it!

I didn't expect to win the last 6ns & that is where I came in on this thread.

I then quoted the bookies favs for this 6Ns which obviously hurts you.

Personally I don't have any bold predictions this 6Ns for England & expect a close fought competition as usual.

I'm personally disappointed the great MJ has resigned but can see why he did. I still have faith in our players and look forward to the continuation of introducing good youngsters into the side.
It's not a great team at the moment but it's capable of beating any NH side as proven this year already.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:LittleTrevsmall happy meal,I like your debating style.Please do not get your hopes up for the 6N's.On second thoughts,get your hopes up.England are in a good place and have a great team so,yeah,go for it!

I didn't expect to win the last 6ns & that is where I came in on this thread.

I then quoted the bookies favs for this 6Ns which obviously hurts you.

Personally I don't have any bold predictions this 6Ns for England & expect a close fought competition as usual.

I'm personally disappointed the great MJ has resigned but can see why he did. I still have faith in our players and look forward to the continuation of introducing good youngsters into the side.
It's not a great team at the moment but it's capable of beating any NH side as proven this year already.

Bookies odds are set to safeguard themselves.Not one to encourage betting but if I were you I might be inclined to bet on Wales finishing higher than England.
Do you have faith in the English players or do you exclude the imports?

Taffineastbourne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:LittleTrevsmall happy meal,I like your debating style.Please do not get your hopes up for the 6N's.On second thoughts,get your hopes up.England are in a good place and have a great team so,yeah,go for it!

I didn't expect to win the last 6ns & that is where I came in on this thread.

I then quoted the bookies favs for this 6Ns which obviously hurts you.

Personally I don't have any bold predictions this 6Ns for England & expect a close fought competition as usual.

I'm personally disappointed the great MJ has resigned but can see why he did. I still have faith in our players and look forward to the continuation of introducing good youngsters into the side.
It's not a great team at the moment but it's capable of beating any NH side as proven this year already.

Bookies odds are set to safeguard themselves.Not one to encourage betting but if I were you I might be inclined to bet on Wales finishing higher than England.
Do you have faith in the English players or do you exclude the imports?

What i said

Gatts wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:LittleTrevsmall happy meal,I like your debating style.Please do not get your hopes up for the 6N's.On second thoughts,get your hopes up.England are in a good place and have a great team so,yeah,go for it!

I didn't expect to win the last 6ns & that is where I came in on this thread.

I then quoted the bookies favs for this 6Ns which obviously hurts you.

Personally I don't have any bold predictions this 6Ns for England & expect a close fought competition as usual.

I'm personally disappointed the great MJ has resigned but can see why he did. I still have faith in our players and look forward to the continuation of introducing good youngsters into the side.
It's not a great team at the moment but it's capable of beating any NH side as proven this year already.

Bookies odds are set to safeguard themselves.Not one to encourage betting but if I were you I might be inclined to bet on Wales finishing higher than England.
Do you have faith in the English players or do you exclude the imports?

What i said

But you are me!

Only be good if they get rid of Ford, Wells and Smith. I can see the RFU saying hurrah appointing a new head coach and leving the c**p in place

agree. Ford, Wells and Smith need to go.
But, I thought they were geniuses?

It was interesting that Johnson said he wouldn't have stayed if the RFU had got rid of Ford, Wells and Smith. Whether the fact he's resigned means the RFU are going to get rid of them remains to be seen.

The more I think about it, the more astonishing it seems that the RFU gave Johnson the job in the first place. Say you owned a little shop and wanted a new manager. Would you appoint - or actually headhunt - someone who had never been a manager of anything before in his life? Of course you wouldn't. It was a staggering leap of faith / idiocy (delete as appropriate) for the RFU to think that Johnson would make a good manager just because he'd been a good player.

No as i understand it, Squeaky wanted to keep Ashton and Thomas wanted Jonno

Okay. My mistake. I'll delete that last bit!

Gatts wrote:No as i understand it, Squeaky wanted to keep Ashton and Thomas wanted Jonno

And there in lies the problem for a lot of English fans. Squeaky was never seen as a supporter of Johnno and the perception was there (whether true or not) that he didn't do anything to support or help MJ because of this. I would personally go as far as saying that RA tried on several occasions to undermine Martin. But then I am on record as not being a fan of the weasely self serving job protectionist that is Rob 'squeaky' Andrews.

As a professional manager in business you have to let your direct reports find their legs and make their own decisions, but you have to also make sure that you follow up and review performance so you know what is happening. When things are going wrong you have to allow them to put it right, but if things are going too far too quickly then you have to step in and help them get back on track. This is where RA failed.

He allowed MJ to deal with Tindell. Then completely overruled MJ decision at a later date in a public manner and carpeted the player beyond what most of us would define as reasonable. This was a slap in the face for Martin, a public embarrassment for him and a massive demonstration that he was deliberately undermining Johnnos position.

If my boss ever did that to me, I would fear for my job and seriously consider resignation too.

Also in business, if my direct reports failed and continued to fail in both conduct & performance it would be a huge reflection on my credibility as their manager. I would be expected to answer for it.

This is why RA must go. You just can't abdicate responsibility for the department you are in charge of and say it has nothing to do with you when it goes wrong!!

I really feel for Martin Johnson. He has come across very well in all this. I wonder whether he'd like to come back to his home town Market Harborough and coach...I'm pretty certain he'd be very welcome

how did this turn into a England Vs Wales debate...?

someone call the mods..

mckay1402 wrote:I really feel for Martin Johnson. He has come across very well in all this. I wonder whether he'd like to come back to his home town Market Harborough and coach...I'm pretty certain he'd be very welcome

One of my closest mates lives in Harborough.
Great town.
Love the town centre.
Nice Rugby club too. If MJ went there, it would probably be a great place to cool his heels for a year whilst figuring out what he wants to do next.

Your good mate is a lucky man. I really like harborough and the club has a great atmosphere about it. Both Martin and Will uased to live here and I think it would be great if they came back..If I could find his email address I'd suggest it to him...

yeah, I might have lost it, too.........

A few comments on here have suggested that Johnson had the coaching team foisted upon him, but that just wasn't the case, he was given free reign and elected to stick with Ford & Wells (his first and biggest mistake).

I'm very sad to see Johnson's reputation tainted in this way and would have loved for him to have stayed and made a success of things, but I'd be pretty uncertain of seeing that happening.

In reality he shouldn't have been appointed in the first place, and in the end I'm not sure he was bringing enough to the party. He didn't have coaching ability; his selection was often highly questionable (loyalty is admirable, but he didn't know where to draw the line); in what should be key attributes in a manager, he was noticably lacking in terms of vision and tactics (Flood at IC for example was a desperate roll of the dice from a position that he had boxed himself into); the main area he was meant to deliver was man management and talismanic effect, but did he do enough there? The particular shortcomings of the WC would suggest not.

What England need most going forward is a coherent vision, development and gameplan and this just isn't an area that Johnson excels in. Forcing a change of the coaching team underneath him in search of that (an area I wouldn't be confident in him appointing well), what would Johnson really be retained for apart from being a supporter's figurehead favourite?