Murray May Pull Out?

First topic message reminder :

So say all the headlines.

But the opposite may also be true. His injury wasn't obvious when he was playing despite the MTO. If he intends to carry on playing it would have been possible to keep quiet about problems he admits to having in training.

So why is he making a press conference announcement about the extent of his problems? And more importantly... Why is he telling Berdych and Djokovic? Surely a little discretion would have been wiser at this stage.

Of course if he does pull he would be expected to give a reason.

As CC says I think most Murray supporters agree that his mental focus during games is a problem and would agree with Henman and Becker on that.

However it is the constant nit-picking which seems to happen every time he says anything that annoys people. This thread is a classic example where the OP first says he is daft telling his opponents he has an injury before the second games and then after he has pulled and said he had the injury before his first game asks why he didn't say and was trying to talk up his chances. Then the fact that he has a tournament ending injury is questioned. Then out of the blue the topic is suddenly changed to his mental focus.

CC I was referring to the excuses rather than the injury.

If he always looks on the negative side then invariably he'll find something to complain about. Becker said in order to win a slam "his attitude has to be much more positive" with Henman concurring by contrasting Andy's negativity with Federer and Djokovic's "positive and aggressive attitude" . They can't surely both be wrong can they?

Suggesting that somehow I think that his injuries are what lets him down is plainly nonsensical. Rest assured you'll be happy to note this is my final posting on the above so perhaps we should just agree to differ on this one.

Newballs you do spurt some utter tripe

Tipsy fell over and the hobbled to the net like some wounded army vet. If he hadn't bottled it, you might not have witnessed his dramatics.

I wish our army intelligence had a body language expert such as yourself!

newballs wrote:Guys it's not like Melbourne is next week or something. I genuinely hope Andy has pulled out for the right reasons i.e. basically it was an injury that could have been made much worse by trying to continue in the tournament.

He actually owes that to the fans especially those who paid good money wanting to see him play. And before all the pro-Murray brigade start having a go that would apply to any tennis player especially on home soil.

It has to be said though - and this was aired during the Sky coverage tonight - that there are those who think he has an excuse every time things don't go his way unlike the likes of Nadal, Djokovic and Federer who tend just to get on with it.

What Andy needs (IMHO) more than anything at this stage of his career is some sound advice from those he trusts in his inner circle. If he can pick himself up from this latest setback and prove all those doubters wrong nobody would be happier than me.

.

That, to me, sounds a heck of a lot like you questioning the genuineness of his injury to me. Henman and Becker are analysing his mental issues which I think is fair enough. No gripes from me there. It is all this manure that he owes the fans anything after what he has done for British tennis in terms of being sole carrier of hopes in this country. Nonsense.

[quote="newballs"]
Djokovic's "positive and aggressive attitude" . [quote]



I wonder who was mentioning his shoulder for the last month?

Really positive

Becker was also questionning the validity of the injury CC - he wanted 'to hear or see a proper doctor's report of the injury', scoffed a little at the 'discussed with my team' and then said that he, himself, had frequently played with injuries and with pain. When pressed by Annabel as to whether he would have continued, he said that he thought he might have done as it was last tournament of the year before a 5 week rest. the rest of the commentary team did point out that Andy had played through a painful ankle injury during RG, and Boris conceded that but was still a little sceptical, if not downright critical, about Andy's reasons for pulling out yesterday.

I am not giving my opinion either way with this post because I didn't get to see the Ferrer/Murray match and so don't actually have a view - just wanted to challenge your point that Boris was only criticising a mental attitude in clutch matches.

Boris also very critical about Novak's negativity in the second set tonight - he is on a roll (The B*nking One, that is!)

TP. As I said earlier on this thread. Remember Boris is a retired tennis player. It's not his body that has to go out and play with the risk of worsening the injury. Murray has had the pain in the backside problem which kept him out of Basel, hamstring problems in Paris, and then this groin strain in training for the O2. Surely all signs that something isn't right. He has obviously decided that playing on can only make things worse and that he might be out for a longer time.

I think the bonking one is bonkers.

There is no doubt that Andy is taking precautionary measures TP. He made a big effort and emphasis on finishing third in the world rankings, so not just the title at stake but the ranking too. He must be genuinely concerned because it is clear he is planning some very tough off season training.

I think Boris needs to think before jumping in the closet!

I'm not commentating either way Calder as to whether I thought Boris's point had merit or not.........either way, it's interesting to hear from a retired player, as it is from anyone who follows and enjoys the sport, even if it is an opinion that one doesn't agree with.

Legend - The B*nking One is decidedly bonkers, I agree but I do quite enjoy his unashamedly louche appearances and his willingness to be a bit combative and controversial - after all, that is how he played most of the time. He is still the same Boris who blew kisses to Brooke Shields to enrage and disconcert Agassi during one of their matches.

It is a shame for all of us that Andy felt he had no option to pull out. Tournament has definitely lost a bit of its sparkle with the British No 1 unable to continue.

He should go careful with that very tough off season training when injured...

hawkeye wrote:He should go careful with that very tough off season training when injured...

He should. Could end up like Nadal and pull out of tournament, take a break, talk how much he wants to win the next tournament and then show up as flat as a witch's t!t. Great strategy.

Quite funny how Boris talks about desire when he retired from the game because he couldn't be bothered to up it against Sampras, but hey ho.

TP. That's fine I'm entitled to disagree with it. Boris has no idea of the extent of the injury, what treatment has been given, what advice has been given apart from what Murray has said. As a retired great tennis player his opinions on the game and how he thinks players can improve (especially with Murray) are valuable and I respect them. But I don't think he should be commenting on whether someone is injured or not.

From The Times today

But there was a sense of mystery about the practice session with Tipsarevic
when Murray said that he did himself the mischief with his groin and that he
had called a premature halt after “hitting a few balls”. Tipsarevic’s memory
of it was somewhat different. “We had a long warm-up, then one set and after
that we stopped,” he said. “We had scheduled for an hour and we stopped
after one hour and ten minutes. But I honestly never saw that he had any
kind of problems on the court. It never crossed my mind he would pull out.”

So Andy defines an hour as hitting a few balls. I would probably say the same.
What's wrong with that?

Murray said he called a premature halt to the practice session. Tipsarevic said they extented it.

Is it that big a deal?

ps, you forgot to add the next part of the quote:

At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

Y I Man

The Time is reporting that there was "a sense of mystery about the practise session". They think its a big enough deal to draw attention to it.

The Times had given a lot of space to Murrays chances at the WTF and now he has pulled out. They will of course try and find out as much as possible about Murrays injury as readers will want to know how it may affect his future play.

They reported what Murray said about the practise session and now they get a different story from Tipsarevic. What are they supposed to do? It is a reporters job to try and get to the truth.

Y I Man wrote:ps, you forgot to add the next part of the quote:

At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

Huh! Where did you get that from? I quoted the whole bit about the practise session.

Its not just The Times running that story.
Both The Guardian and The Independent state "At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

The thing with the press, is that they only print what they think the readers want to hear to make a good story. (As The Times is doing here) To get the correct and full facts on the situation you need to check out the full version of the interview, which is covered in other papers.

Hence the saying, dont believe everything you read in the press.

You've been busted hawkeye. Shown up for the eight anti-Murray topics (and counting) you have manufactured.

VMP got burnt there.

Y I Man wrote:Its not just The Times running that story.
Both The Guardian and The Independent state "At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

The thing with the press, is that they only print what they think the readers want to hear to make a good story. (As The Times is doing here) To get the correct and full facts on the situation you need to check out the full version of the interview, which is covered in other papers.

Hence the saying, dont believe everything you read in the press.

Or also hawkeye only reports here what she wants to report as long as it paints Murray in a bad light.

And some say I am an obsessive poster constantly repeating the same things????!!!

Any other interest in tennis besides Andy Murray? The guy withdrew 2 days ago but the tournament goes on..in case you hadn't noticed!

Of course the tournament goes on as I have discussed elsewhere. An obsessive poster? Hmm I haven't even started eight topics here about Andy Murray and I am a fan of his?? Here we have a poster allowed unabated to post anti-Murray guff at will at a rate of one every two and a half weeks. Fair enough but after all this was touted and advertised on 606 as was going to be WUM-free and clearly it is not.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course the tournament goes on as I have discussed elsewhere. An obsessive poster? Hmm I haven't even started eight topics here about Andy Murray and I am a fan of his?? Here we have a poster allowed unabated to post anti-Murray guff at will at a rate of one every two and a half weeks. Fair enough but after all this was touted and advertised on 606 as was going to be WUM-free and clearly it is not.

When we set up the forum, yes we said no wums as we only expected 100 members or so max. We certainly didnt expect to get over 3,500 members which we have now.
I have tried all options in the tennis section, and there is not a single solution that will keep everyone happy.

So therefore the choices available are:

1) Use the foe feature, so you cant see certain people's posts.
2) Ignore wind ups
3) Debate and reason back (as I did this morning)
4) Dont post here

CaledonianCraig wrote:Here we have a poster allowed unabated to post anti-Murray guff at will at a rate of one every two and a half weeks. Fair enough but after all this was touted and advertised on 606 as was going to be WUM-free and clearly it is not.

Oh not this again Comrade! What on earth has hawkeye written that she shouldn't be allowed to? I don't agree with much of what she writes about Murray but why on earth should the admins or the mods censor her - she is always polite to other posters whilst expressing her views!

I think you should really consider that someone expressing a negative opinion of Murray, even if they do so frequently and it irritates the h*ll out of you, is totally and utterly different from what most people call wumming.

The lot on Murray's side of the argument have the upper hand in the debate, by, guess what - debating instead of banning. Surely any rational adult would choose the former rather than the latter, unless you are channelling the late Mrs Whitehouse!

Y I Man wrote:

When we set up the forum, yes we said no wums as we only expected 100 members or so max. We certainly didnt expect to get over 3,500 members which we have now.
I have tried all options in the tennis section, and there is not a single solution that will keep everyone happy.

So therefore the choices available are:

1) Use the foe feature, so you cant see certain people's posts.
2) Ignore wind ups
3) Debate and reason back (as I did this morning)
4) Dont post here

Glad you changed your mind about it. As you mentioned there are other options when addressing a wum.

HE and Newballs ares no wum btw. they happen not to like Andy. Fair enough.

I have to admit though the people who 'don't' like Murray write more things about him than the people who 'do' like him which I find funny.

As Tenez said still 8 other players left worth talking about

Y I Man wrote:Its not just The Times running that story.
Both The Guardian and The Independent state "At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

The thing with the press, is that they only print what they think the readers want to hear to make a good story. (As The Times is doing here) To get the correct and full facts on the situation you need to check out the full version of the interview, which is covered in other papers.

Hence the saying, dont believe everything you read in the press.

Please say where you got that quote from. Both the Independent and the Guardian are not PPV so could you provide links? I have just had quick look myself and was unable to find it.

I was quoting a reputable source questioning Murrays version of a training session. This was bound to be unpopular with those that wish to see things differently. It is something that is being discussed elsewhere.

hawkeye wrote:

Y I Man wrote:Its not just The Times running that story.
Both The Guardian and The Independent state "At the same time, Tipsarevic also said he could see that Murray "wasn't feeling great"

The thing with the press, is that they only print what they think the readers want to hear to make a good story. (As The Times is doing here) To get the correct and full facts on the situation you need to check out the full version of the interview, which is covered in other papers.

Hence the saying, dont believe everything you read in the press.

Please say where you got that quote from. Both the Independent and the Guardian are not PPV so could you provide links? I have just had quick look myself and was unable to find it.

I was quoting a reputable source questioning Murrays version of a training session. This was bound to be unpopular with those that wish to see things differently. It is something that is being discussed elsewhere.

Or is it because you just love having a moan about Murray and people see through the paper thin argument you post.

HE, you might have a point if you'd ever posted anything that could even be considered neutral about Murray. As it is, forgive us for not taking you seriously

From the Mirror

Tipsarevic, who practised with Murray for 75 minutes, said: “It never
crossed my mind he could be injured. I never, ever, thought he might
pull out before or after we practised. I honestly never saw he had any
kind of problem on court.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/tennis/2011/11/24/roger-federer-in-jibe-at-andy-murray-as-he-claim-he-can-play-through-pain-115875-23583846/

Many of the views on this site are biased. Pro Murray. Anti Nadal. I quite like to debate so if I see something I disagree with I will say something. On this site Murrays version is the acceptable one. But elsewhere it is being questioned. Not just by Tipsarevic but by Boris Becker. Is this something that shouldn't be discussed here?


I always try to provide evidence unlike many who choose to always have blind faith in Murray.

Don't blame him pulling out, for all we know he might have been scheduled to play Kim on Virtua Tennis 4.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Isn't there an "emotion" with a blindfold and fingers in ears...

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdzC2fh-9iBZgj0BmwGqscban8sxlTyTdJn62mt1iAfbxLHORP

Could also be used for Nadal fans when it is suggested that he may not actually be injured..

Or even when it is suggested he is injured...

very good JM

hawkeye wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Isn't there an "emotion" with a blindfold and fingers in ears...

Isn't there a yawn "emotion" for when you another totally biased thread.

Again you pick the bits you want to hear and ignore the rest. You missed the bit from when he pulled out and he said that when he first got the injury he was told that he should take 7-10 days rest but kept training to try and get fit for the tournament. He should probably not have played at all but suspect you would have questioned that as well. Anyway I'm glad he has pulled out now and is hopefully taking the rest required to get rid of all these niggles (as Federer did after USO/DC with no adverse comments). Rather that than completely breaking down and requiring an operation. Then he would have been accused of chasing the $$$.

is probably fairly appropriate...

Calder106

But its not just me.

The Times has some of the best tennis coverage around. Most of the time its very pro Murray so I don't think it is biased against him. Did you also see the quote from Tipsarevic I linked to from the Mirror.

Most posters here are very pro Murray. He gets lots of support and very little criticism. Does it really hurt to hear what is being said elsewhere or do you think its better not to know? I always like to see both sides of a story. What do you think about what Tipsarevic said?

posters here are only pro-Murray by your standards HE

The Times does not have the monoply on tennis reporting you know. There were similar articles in many papers and other sites. For instance from ESPN "In practice, it honestly never crossed my mind that he could be injured," Tipsarevic said. "The only guy who I maybe suspected that might change was Mardy Fish before he played Rafael Nadal. But then when I saw him perform, at one point I was certain that I'm not going to play.

"Regarding Andy Murray, I never, ever thought that he might pull out before we practised or after the practice. I saw that he wasn't feeling great. I saw him also against David Ferrer. I felt that, you know, he was running okay but he wasn't feeling good on the court. I honestly never thought, you know, that he has a physical issue.

"Sometimes players feel tired. Normally when you play a set, and there is 10 or 15 minutes left, sometimes if you have a court longer you just stop. But I never thought that he stopped because he has a physical problem."


Fair enough quote from Tipsy. He says what he saw. However he does say in the last paragraph that the session was cut short. He also says that there didn't seem to be problems with Murray's running in the Ferrer match. Strange then that he asked for an MTO to be taken at the next change over when 5-4 down in the first set. The commentators also said he appeared to have problems setting himself when moving in certain ways. So different people see different things.

I don't know how players practice against each other but would be surprised if they would be playing full out. Therefore any injury may not be obvious. For instance Murray said when he practiced with the Bryans on saturday he was basically standing in the middle of the court. I expect it was more intense with Tipsarevic but hardly the effort that would be put in during a real match,

hawkeye wrote:From the Mirror

Tipsarevic, who practised with Murray for 75 minutes, said: “It never
crossed my mind he could be injured. I never, ever, thought he might
pull out before or after we practised. I honestly never saw he had any
kind of problem on court.”


I always try to provide evidence unlike many who choose to always have blind faith in Murray.

I take it you have heard of the meaning for word 'could'?

So given that Murray Aggravated the injury during the match, I take it in practice he takes it so seriously that it would be silly to read anything into a niggle during practice?

I am moving more towards being Anti Nadal with your handjob comments on Murray every day.

Try reading something other than The Times. Aren't they owned by News International?????

Great source!

Calder106 wrote:The Times does not have the monoply on tennis reporting you know. There were similar articles in many papers and other sites. For instance from ESPN "In practice, it honestly never crossed my mind that he could be injured," Tipsarevic said. "The only guy who I maybe suspected that might change was Mardy Fish before he played Rafael Nadal. But then when I saw him perform, at one point I was certain that I'm not going to play.

"Regarding Andy Murray, I never, ever thought that he might pull out before we practised or after the practice. I saw that he wasn't feeling great. I saw him also against David Ferrer. I felt that, you know, he was running okay but he wasn't feeling good on the court. I honestly never thought, you know, that he has a physical issue.

"Sometimes players feel tired. Normally when you play a set, and there is 10 or 15 minutes left, sometimes if you have a court longer you just stop. But I never thought that he stopped because he has a physical problem."


Fair enough quote from Tipsy. He says what he saw. However he does say in the last paragraph that the session was cut short. He also says that there didn't seem to be problems with Murray's running in the Ferrer match. Strange then that he asked for an MTO to be taken at the next change over when 5-4 down in the first set. The commentators also said he appeared to have problems setting himself when moving in certain ways. So different people see different things.

I don't know how players practice against each other but would be surprised if they would be playing full out. Therefore any injury may not be obvious. For instance Murray said when he practiced with the Bryans on saturday he was basically standing in the middle of the court. I expect it was more intense with Tipsarevic but hardly the effort that would be put in during a real match,

Good comment.