Brazilian GP Thread

by Fernando Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:11 pm

This weekend Formula 1 heads to Brazil for the nineteenth and final race of the 2011 season – just days before people up and down the country prepare to open the first door of their advent calendars, this long campaign that began back in March will finally reach its conclusion.

And Interlagos is a fine place to end any season. The circuit may have the worst facilities on the calendar, and located in a dangerous neighbourhood (just ask Jenson Button, who had his highly-trained police driver to thank last year after narrowly escaping an armed gang), but on Sunday there will be a carnival atmosphere amongst the fans as they welcome F1 on its annual visit to Sao Paulo.

The championships may have been settled many races ago and there is little chance of a Brazilian winning their home race this weekend, but still this final Grand Prix will still be worth watching as the loose ends of a frantic season are tied together, scores are settled, and teams try to send out a message for their rivals to take away over the winter.

McLaren will be one such team hoping to end the year on a high. They have been looking more competitive in the latter part of the season and will be hoping that either Lewis Hamilton or Button will score a second consecutive win for the team. This will surely give them extra momentum as they head into the winter break, helping them to design a car that can topple Red Bull in 2012.

ebastian Vettel will be desperate to stop that happening though. The puncture suffered by the German in Abu Dhabi last time out deprived him of a chance to match Michael Schumacher‘s record of thirteen wins in a single season but Vettel will still be fighting for the victory, eager to get a result in the final race that can reflect his dominant season. Fernando Alonso will also be one to watch, although the Spaniard has surprisingly never won at this track.

There are other drivers who will be desperate for a result at Interlagos, just to ensure their 2011 cannot be regarded as a complete write-off. Mark Webber will want a victory just to avoid a completely win-less season, especially as his team-mate has managed to stand on the top step of the podium eleven times already.

Felipe Massa would probably just be happy with a podium to avoid the 2011 season going down as the first since 2005 in which he failed to pick up a trophy. In fact, the Brazilian has not actually even managed a fourth place yet in 2011 but, as a two-time winner of his home race, maybe Massa will give his critics something to think about on Sunday.

Schumacher, a four-time winner here, would probably like to overcome the seven point deficit between himself and team-mate Nico Rosberg to assert himself as top dog at Mercedes. The seven-time world champion has claimed a number of good results this season, despite starting from some lowly grid positions. Some of these drives have been reminiscent of his final race at Ferrari in 2006 when, after dropping down to the back of the field at the start of the race, he so skilfully fought his way up to fourth place. It was not enough to give him the title that season, but it was nevertheless a great send off for the German.

At Renault and Toro Rosso, both drivers will have one last chance to convince their team bosses that that they are worthy of a race seat next season. Vitaly Petrov is thought to have a contract with the team, and attracts some Russian sponsorship its way. However, after his outspoken comments towards the team last week, Eric Boullier may be tempted to move him on. Bruno Senna is far from guaranteed a seat next season, with Romain Grosjean waiting in the wings and the chance, albeit one that is becoming increasingly unlikely, that Robert Kubica might return.

At Toro Rosso, Sebastien Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari have impressed in the second half of the season, and probably deserve another year together in the Red Bull junior team. Alguersuari has definitely become a much improved driver in the second half of this season, and sits thirteenth in the championship with 26 points. However, with a raft of young drivers waiting in the wings, including Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Eric Vergne, Helmut Marko might decide to that time is up for one or both of the current drivers. They will be hoping to impress in Brazil.

Force India should, hopefully, announce their driver line-up for next season sometime this week, with Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkenberg (who was on pole in a Williams at this event last season, but will only be in the car for FP1 this year) still the expected choice. The team will be looking to secure sixth place in the constructors’ table in Brazil, and have a healthy fifteen point cushion to Sauber.

Sauber, who confirmed some time ago that Kamui Kobayashi and Sergio Perez will be retained for 2012, will probably not be too focused on chasing Force India for sixth place on Sunday, but will be concentrating more on defending seventh position, given a fragile lead of one point from Toro Rosso.

This race could also mark the end of the road for Rubens Barrichello, the most experienced driver in the history of the sport. The Brazilian looks unlikely to be retained by Williams for next season, and it is hard to see where else he could end up. Barrichello is still hopeful of securing a drive over the winter, but a 20th season in the sport for the 39-year-old is looking doubtful.

It will be a shame to see Barrichello bow out of the sport. By all accounts he is a very friendly, happy and enthusiastic driver who will no doubt be missed by many in the paddock. However, many would argue that it is time for him to move on and allow some new blood to take his place. Unfortunately for the Brazilian, he has normally been pretty unlucky at Interlagos, with eleven retirements in his eighteen previous visits, and only one podium finish – third in 2004.

Brazil could also be the final race for Jerome D’Ambrosio, with Virgin Racing expected to announce Charles Pic alongside Timo Glock for next season, and who knows what will happen to Vitantonio Liuzzi now that Pedro de la Rosa has been confirmed in an HRT race seat for next season. It is likely that the other driver in that team will need to be bringing in plenty of sponsorship money.

source: http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2011/11/brazilian-grand-prix-2011-preview/

Weather Forecast : http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/7535462

by SteveG Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:22 pm

"AND BUTTON OUT QUALIFIES HAMILTON !!!!"
The words of Martin Brundle the second that Hamilton crosses the line. Those BBC boys really do wet themselves when such a historic event occurs.

I had a feeling that 2nd row was the best Lewis could hope for - he just didnt seem to quite have the pace after P2. Rain will now be his best chance tomorrow otherwise its another Vettel borefest.

by Guest Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:17 pm

Seriously Brundle is an embarrassment when it comes to his favouritism for Button and sadly we're going to have to put up with it at SKY next season. All week leading upto this race, every BBC sport bulletin regarding this race has ended with the quote, 'and remember this is the first time Lewis Hamilton has been beaten by his teammate in a season'. Seriously ridiculous!

Getting back to the qualifying and race prospects.
1. Vettel on pole but seriously his achievement is no way better than Mansell's record of 14 poles out of 16 against Schumacher & Senna!
2. High chance of rain, ultimately means qualifying is less important and we all know how Vettel performed in the wet in Hungary.

by Critical_mass Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:26 pm

Yeah but to be fair he also said the stat of 13-6 lewis has out qualified jenson.

Im wondering if Mclaren are banking on a wet race tomorrow and running slightly more wing than the RBs.

by The Special Juan Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:30 pm

This'll be a procession like last year, I fear. Never mind, Man City v Liverpool tomorrow.

by Fernando Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:56 pm

check the weather forecast tsc Wink

Man City vs Liverpool is going to be rubbish aswell Wink

by dyrewolfe Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:20 am

SteveG wrote:"AND BUTTON OUT QUALIFIES HAMILTON !!!!"
The words of Martin Brundle the second that Hamilton crosses the line. Those BBC boys really do wet themselves when such a historic event occurs.

I had a feeling that 2nd row was the best Lewis could hope for - he just didnt seem to quite have the pace after P2. Rain will now be his best chance tomorrow otherwise its another Vettel borefest.

Get over yourself. I'm guessing they were just as surprised as the rest of us. It wasn't that long ago we were all treated to Button admitting that qualifying was a weakness he would like to address, at a time when he was being consistently out-qualified by Hamilton.

If you listened to ALL the commentary you'd also have heard Brundle say he thought Red Bull had been holding some performance in reserve for Q3. Effectively, they were sand-bagging through Q1 and Q2, then blitzed the final session, proving they still have the fastest car and meaning NEITHER McLaren driver had a real chance of getting on the front row.

For the record Vettel was 0.3s quicker than Button and 0.5s quicker than Hamilton.

The good news is that McLaren have traditionally performed better in races and if it does rain, things could well change dramatically.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:31 am

fernando wrote:check the weather forecast tsc

Man City vs Liverpool is going to be rubbish aswell

Oh is it going to rain? Excellent. It may well be worth a watch then.

Yeah, but it's two teams I'm not very fond of so if there's a few meaty challenges it'll be alright.

by SteveG Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:14 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Get over yourself. I'm guessing they were just as surprised as the rest of us.

Surprised AND elated. Like I said - wetting themselves.

Well I wasnt surprised - it was obvious to me in P3, Q1 and Q2 that Hamilton just didnt have the speed. Being thrashed by RB is one thing (and .5 secs is a thrashing) - if they have a faster car then so be it but I then expect Hamilton whom many proclaim to be the fastest driver in F1 to be next in line. Either Button is excelling or Hamilton is still struggling for whatever reason as he normally overcomes any slight setup difficiencies. As a Hamilton fan I hope its the latter because loss of form is temporary.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:35 pm

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

by Belgarion of Riva Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:37 pm

I think the Mclaren's were running slighty more wing and a set up suited for dodgy weather conditions.

We'll see, may watch the Liv v City game as well if the finger disappears into the distance

by Fernando Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:59 pm

We're down to a 80% chance of rain which means it'll be very sunny all race lol

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:02 pm

Boo! Torrental rain please!

by GSC Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:36 pm

Eddie Jordan never misses an opportunity to put the boot into McLaren.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:39 pm

What's the situation on the rain? None apparently.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:57 pm

Well here we go. Barring other circumtances, this is the last Grand Prix I will watch over the next few years. I will NOT be tuning into the paltry races the BBC have. Lots of things will happen today:
Last race of 2011
Brundle and Slotover's last BBC races
2nd place will be decided
Barrichello's last race (probably)

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:04 pm

Oh there's Vettel going into the distance xD

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:22 pm

Gearbox problem for Seb? O.o

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Seb's had to let Webber past. Might well be game over for him sooner than later.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:52 pm

Lewis has a gearbox problem too now. What is going on? Looking better and better for Webber.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:14 pm

Hamilton out. Gearbox problem was terminal. It's all gone wrong.

by SteveG Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:33 pm

and just too rub in hamiltons woes button gonna get a podium. I can't stand it anymore !!

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:36 pm

Season over!
1) Web 2) Vet 3) But

No Finger this time, a good way for me to bow out of watching F1.

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:37 pm

SteveG wrote:and just too rub in hamiltons woes button gonna get a podium. I can't stand it anymore !!

Hamilton will be back stronger next year. Why does no one acknowledge the fact that everyone will have one bad season?

by Gregers Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:48 pm

Great drive from Jenson YET AGAIN this season

by Critical_mass Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:18 pm

Bit of a dull race generally to be honest. Was hoping for race to make things interesting.

by SteveG Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:35 pm

TSC wrote:
SteveG wrote:and just too rub in hamiltons woes button gonna get a podium. I can't stand it anymore !!

Hamilton will be back stronger next year. Why does no one acknowledge the fact that everyone will have one bad season?

I do but it doesnt make it any easier. In Lewis' position I'd have kicked the crap out of my car on more occasions than one this seaon so I guess I'm not cut out for it. steam

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:52 pm

lol So would I. It's let him down a bit, not just in pace but it's reliablity too.

It wasn't the most exciting race ever but for some reason it flew by. Enjoy Sky, Mr Brundle!

by SteveG Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:38 pm

Just what the heck happened to the forum!! A technical fault that was never resolved. Hmmm theres no world cup game on tonight (remember july) so looks like the beeb must have been hit by the same mysterious gremlin that attacked Vettels gearbox today !!

by The Special Juan Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:50 pm

There's a vert interesting article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2011/11/bbc_formula_1_an_update.html

Feel free to vent your spleen by yelling at someone else. I have aready Very Happy

by monty junior Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:39 pm

Excellent races by Webber, Vettel, Button and Sutil.

It's been an ok season, but Vettel has totally dominated. Hope its a bit closer next year and we have some new teams at the front rather than them same three.

Top drivers of the year- Vettel, Button

Good season-Alonso, Sutil, Rosberg, Di Resta, Kobayashi, Alguesuari, Kovalainen

Poor performers- Massa, Hamilton, Webber, good cars... wayyyyy to many mistakes, crashes and brain fades.

by Critical_mass Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:01 pm

Next season really has got to improve. The other teams really do need to catch up to RB next season as if it doesnt get closer and Vettel dominates again, then those that dont have sky wont be missing out on much.

It will be a yawn fest and predictable. Fingers crossed the other teams pull something out hte bag for next season.

I agree Massa, Hamilton and Webber have had poor seasons - they do need to improve. I have faith in Hamilton to get back on form. Webber - he's a bit of an unknown for me, i wouldnt like to say whether he will do better next season or not. Massa, hmmm i wouldnt bank on him bringing it all back together next season, i think it will be his last and then Kubica could replace him in 2013... we'll wait and see.

For now, its going to be a long winter.!

by monty junior Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:50 am

Alot of people are backing Kubica to replace to Massa and bar the injury i'd have been happy to see this. But RK is very much an unknown quantity coming back from injury, for me Massa has been some way from his best since he returned from that terrible accident and on the last two seasons performances in no way deserve such as prestigious seat. The problem with this season was the car were mainly just an evolution from last season. The Redbull was still the best, Mclaren managed to edge Ferrari, Mercedes clear in fourth but nowhere near good enough for the top 6 just like 2010. The only team for me who made a step forward in terms of consistency atleast would be Force India and possibly Torro Rosso.

by Guest Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:35 pm

Another disappointing race in my opinion, the whole Vettel 'serious gearbox' issue and still being able to match Webber and bang in fastest laps was extremely fishy. If you ask me, giving Webber the win and improving his confidence and belief in his ability can only be good in the long term for driver and team going into next year and it gets the monkey off his back. fully expect Vettel to destroy Webber next season. Mclaren will once again promise to fight back but i've heard that for years and the same end result will probably occur. I think Mercedes will be ultra competitive next season with Brawn, Bell, Costa & Willis at the helm it cant be too long before something special is designed but the favourites will still be Red Bull.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:54 pm

well that was a pretty lousy season wasn't it? Not Vettel's fault but it's a bit dull when one driver dominates to that extent. Unless something spectacular happens I can see the same thing happening next year too unfortunately. RBR are so far ahead of everyone else just like Ferrari in the Schumacher years. The only guys on the circuit who can compete in inferior cars are Hamilton and Alonso, so here's hoping McLaren and Ferrari do something during the winter...

by dyrewolfe Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:06 pm

@john: for once a post I entirely agree with Wink

If Red Bull want to know what "serious gearbox issues" are, they only need look as far as Lewis Hamilton. Short-shifting in 2nd and 3rd was never going to slow him down that much.

The fact he finished 15-16 seconds behind Webber suggests he had some sort of problem, or that he had to manage his car, but the fact it happened at the last race of the season and allowed Webber his first (and only) win of the season is just a bit too convenient.

@monty junior: I read a recent article on Kubica in which he said he doubted he'd be ready in time for the start of next season, given what his doctors were saying. If thats true I can't see him competing in any races, as he will need a minimum of a full winter's testing to get race fit.

Overall a disappointing race, not helped by the DRS zone not being very well set up. Really could have used some rain to shake things up, but it failed to materialise.

Says it all when the most exciting things were Vettel and Hamilton's gearbox problems. Another decent drive from Button, who seemed to be hampered early on by running on the softer tyres. Really came to life towards the end of the race when on the medium compound. Did well to retake 3rd place from Alonso, but was too far behind the Red Bulls to have a go at Vettel.

Another typical race for Ferrari. Very strong and aggresive start from Alonso to get up to 3rd, but then pretty much held station some distance from the Red Bulls. Predictably their performance suffered when switching to the harder tyres, which also played into McLaren's hands. Hamilton and Massa also had an interesting tussle until Lewis was forced to retire.

A good race for Force India with both Di Resta and Sutil finishing in the top 10 (8th and 6th respectively). Strange to think Sutil's place is under threat.

Another solid race from Rosberg who seems to have made the no.7 slot his own. Good to see Kobayashi bringing more points home for Sauber with his 9th place.

Promising drive from Senna who was looking good for a points finish until his collision with Schumacher earned him a drive-through. Decent drive from Petrov, qualifying 15th but finishing 10th.

by Fernando Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:24 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:A good race for Force India with both Di Resta and Sutil finishing in the top 10 (8th and 6th respectively). Strange to think Sutil's place is under threat.

I may get shot for this but i haven't actually been that impressed by Di Resta this season, He's been outscored by Sutil 42-27 and he's only just out-scored Alguersuari by a point in a much better car. The fact Sutil is being disregarded is a shambles the man is a very good driver, I hope if he ends up at Williams they give him a decent car for 2012.

Charles Pic is replacing D'Ambrosio Marussia for next season which seems very harsh on custard aswell considering he's actually finished higher then Glock on positional finishes.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:27 pm

yes but you have to take into account that it's Di Resta's first season in F1, whereas Sutil has had a few seasons already, so it's not that surprising he's outscoring the Scot. I think Di Resta has done a good job, but he's been in a car that has mostly been competitive points-wise, so should be expected to pick up a few points here and there.

by Fernando Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:48 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yes but you have to take into account that it's Di Resta's first season in F1, whereas Sutil has had a few seasons already, so it's not that surprising he's outscoring the Scot. I think Di Resta has done a good job, but he's been in a car that has mostly been competitive points-wise, so should be expected to pick up a few points here and there.

This is the problem people are going his British so he's had a excellent season etc. He needs to up his game next season and cut out the silly mistakes like at canada with Heidfeld. Sutil is a class act for a driver.

by dyrewolfe Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:24 pm

@fernando: I think Di Resta's done pretty well for a rookie...and not just because he's Scottish.

I would expect him to get out-scored by a more experienced team mate. As you said yourself, Sutil's a decent driver. Wink

Agree though that he will need to up his game next season to prove himself worthy of keeping his seat.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:57 pm

Not saying he's been excellent, or outstanding or anything. Certainly there seemed to be a lot of hype, but that's to be expected in the UK, the French hype Grosjean and he's never shown anything. Like I said, I thought he did well for his first year, and I hope he'll continue to improve.

by The Special Juan Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:22 pm

fernando wrote: I may get shot for this but i haven't actually been that impressed by Di Resta this season, He's been outscored by Sutil 42-27 and he's only just out-scored Alguersuari by a point in a much better car. The fact Sutil is being disregarded is a shambles the man is a very good driver, I hope if he ends up at Williams they give him a decent car for 2012.

Di Resta's year has been solid but unspectacular. He should have beaten Heidfeld in points seeing as Nick was punted earlier this season. I agree Sutil is a great driver. I'd like to see him replace Schumi when he eventually decides to go.

by Critical_mass Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:49 pm

Sutil has improved, probably a little to do with the car, but so what. He's making the most of it. As for Di Resta, I think TSC put it well, a solid but unspectacular season. Its his first and i dont think its been too bad, he's kind of tailed off towards the end but that could be due to the long season.

by monty junior Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:01 pm

fernando wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:A good race for Force India with both Di Resta and Sutil finishing in the top 10 (8th and 6th respectively). Strange to think Sutil's place is under threat.

I may get shot for this but i haven't actually been that impressed by Di Resta this season, He's been outscored by Sutil 42-27 and he's only just out-scored Alguersuari by a point in a much better car. The fact Sutil is being disregarded is a shambles the man is a very good driver, I hope if he ends up at Williams they give him a decent car for 2012.

Charles Pic is replacing D'Ambrosio Marussia for next season which seems very harsh on custard aswell considering he's actually finished higher then Glock on positional finishes.

I do agree to an extent, Di Resta was more impressive in the first ten or so races even though he scored most of his points in the latter part of the year when the car was stronger. Having said that he lost a helluva lot of points between Malaysia and Hungary, losing 9th late in China, the mechanics botching a pitstop from 7th at Silverstone, being pitted early and subsequently put into heavy traffic whilst well ahead of Sutil in monaco who finished 7th, having that crash with Heidfeld in Canada over 4th when he was very quick, losing points in Belgium and Germany when Heidfeld and Glock bashed him from behind. I don't think the 42-27 point gap is a fair reflection as bar the last couple of races it was extremely close all year.

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