Ospreys chief Mike Cuddy bemoans Liberty Stadium attendances

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15898046.stm

What's your view?

my thoughts...

1. £16 quid is too much to watch disjointed half hearted gumf in a souless stadium
2. ....

there isn't a 2

update... there is a 2. It can be a shocker to get to and from by car, taxi or train.

Casarteli - where else in the Scarlets region is there a stadium big enough to host a game? with adequate facilities? Aber at a push but that would be it. It's just not feasable.

Casartelli, over 40% of Ospreys revenue from ticket sales come from the executive boxes, where will they get that from the Region apart from the Brewery Field or the projected new stadium.

dreamer - you don't need a big stadium to host home games against Connacht, Glasgow, Aironi etc.

wayne - if survival is reliant on income from executive boxes (and in a broader sense - benefactors in general) then its a broken model that should be thrown in the bin anyway.

You don't think that half a dozen 'small' games taken on the road each season to spread the word and attract support from across the region would be a positive thing?

There are a few advantages in playing at home and one of them is that the kickers will have a feel for the pitch they will have aiming points within the stadium.
Going on the road takes that advantage away.

Casartelli - you need stadiums that hold at least 5,000, has the means to cater for that crowd, have appropriate parking etc. Again, I don't see anywhere else in the Scarlets' region where it's possible to do that. It would be nice for the Scarlets to do it, like they did when North Wales was still in their region, but I honestly don't see how it can now happen.

Casartelli wrote:
wayne - if survival is reliant on income from executive boxes (and in a broader sense - benefactors in general) then its a broken model that should be thrown in the bin anyway.

Casartelli

I love your sentiments but the corporate box thing is a very valid point, corporate tickets pay for most of the sport in the world. 5 star service for important guests.

Fair enough. There's always the option of keeping things the way they are. As pointed out, crowds are increasing at PYS.

At current rate of improvement, by 2037 they may get a sell-out.

Reckon we'll get a sell out on Boxing Day this year, or very very close to it anway

Casartelli, if you believe that any major sporting team can survive without executive boxes and their income you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Look at the advertisements on our shirts for example, the Scarlets have said lately they will break even, with the influx of money through their boxes.

rugbydreamer wrote:Reckon we'll get a sell out on Boxing Day this year, or very very close to it anway

My tribe is going

I simply don't believe that price is the issue. If it is then people are being silly with their cash. £20 is a very reasonable price for a match ticket considering what you'd pay for a concert, a comedy gig, bowling or the cinema. As others have said you may even spend as much money simply by going to your local and grabbing a bag of chips on the way home.

The hidden extras aren't needed. Don't buy the £5 match programme. Get your pints outside rather than inside the stadium - trust me you'll last 80 minutes without a beer. If your driving a fair distance then make sandwiches and have them in your car - que the laughs by Leinster fans at our quaint Munster stereotype .

On Saturday I was caught for time so didn't go to the Munster v Edinburgh game. The ticket would have been €23 each. I watched it in my local pub where I had several pints and my girlfriend had a few cocktails over the couese of the game. It ended up costing more than €23 each.

Scarlets are doing a good job IMO especially in last two years. They to me are the ideal Welsh region. They have managed to marry the old club game to the modern regional one and have done so alienating only a handful of fans. They promote the fact they play "running rugby", they had their walk of fame initative and the promotion where fans became shareholders of the Scarlets. These are invaluable initatives.

I can't speak too much of why the O's are having attendance problems but seeing as Cuddy made the comparison to Tigers I will make some observations.

Facilities.

The ground & stadium is ours. You walk into the ABC bar in the Crumbie (H&B stand) and the bar is branded with Tigers memorabilia, photo's, trophies etc. et al it has soul & character. All the facilities in the ground are like this.

Promotion

Tigers do an extraordinary amount of community work, school visits, rugby workshops, local appearances etc in and around the city of Leicester. Close ties are forged with the local clubs through a lot of the activity above.

Pricing

From what I've read the O's prices are in the same ball park as Tigers. My Ticket for the Ulster HEC match on the terrace was £17. Tigers do a lot a concession stuff for kids & OAP but not as much as other clubs do.

Athmosphere

A full house helps. But when you hear the foot-stamp / clap start as the noise level starts to build and then peaks with everyone screaming TIGERS!! it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up whether it is 24,000 or 12,000. 2 simple chants even a complete novice can join in on. Doesn't work for everyone but seems to do the job for us.

Fellowship

It's worthless saying things like Tigers still get a full house even though we didn't win anything from 2003 to 2008. It's not just about the results, there is a real community spirit about being a Tigers fan. For example: I played for my local club on Saturday and after the match both teams sat in the bar, wearing Tigers shirts and cheering on the lads. It's our team & come heaven, hell or high water we will support them.

Competition

Tigers are the only top flight professional team in the area and does not have to compete for loyalties of other semi professional teams in the area. Correct me if I am wrong but you've got both Neath RFC & Swansea RFC playing in the Welsh premier league? O's were supposed to be the top-flight representation of those two clubs but the support remained at the clubs and never translated to the O's.

The solutions for the O's

Sorry I can't give you any really but the regions are young and you've got to walk before you run. The one thing I will add is forget trying to convert other clubs fans, aim for the kids and develop your own.

Surely £16 is too expensive if people aren't willing to pay it. Isn't that how we detertmine value? The issue is, are there people who would go if it's cheaper? If not it doesn't matter how cheap they get. How many people play for/support their local side on Saturday afternoons? I know a lot of the English supporters on here play then and get to the pro matches if they're on at a different time.

Other things I like that the Scarlets have done is turn their training centre into a fans 'barn' before and after games where the kids can play (and I think with the mascots), the adults can watch games/interviews and there's loads of drinks and hog roasts/hotdogs and things to keep everyone spending - or if that's too crowded you can go into the stadium an hour (I think) before the game and stand in the concourse watching any rugby games that are on before the Scarlets - you can still get your drinks/food there.

More needs to be done but attendances are increasing, the old entrenched club fans are decreasing or coming over to regional rugby slowly and there are new kids who want to support their region - particularly with Wales getting a bit of hype.

Ive had a season ticket a couple of times, i couldnt afford to buy one this year. I have noticed that the numbers attending are steadily declining. When i first had my season ticket the average gate for league games was about 10,500, now they're about 7000.

The Ospreys have been active in the region, Derek King chairman of Bridgend Ravens was thanking the Ospreys for all they're support. I know in the summer they were holding training/coaching sessions around 'Ospreylia'.

Advertising for games is very limited, i never see posters or hear radio adverts, which i do hear for the Blues. But alll the home games are on the telly, are people really going to sit in -5C (it's been even colder than that) to watch the Ospreys play Connaught and struggle to win.

Rgional rugby, still hasnt captured the imagination of the Welsh public. many still go to watch their local teams becuase its easier and cheaper than getting to the liberty. I've stated before that very few of my mates that ive played rugby with dont even bother to watch the regions on the telly. We are going to have to wait for the youngstrs to grow up and start going to the games, or in the immediate future, win the HC

SafeAsMilk wrote:If a family budget is tight why not take a packed lunch rather than buying over-priced food and drinks at the ground? That would probably save the price of a ticket (and a damn sight healthier!).

Your not allowed to take anything into the ground my brother in law got aught taking a small bottle of coke in and was told to throw it in a bin or he wouldnt be allowed into the ground!

One other issue that keeps cropping up is people saying the Ospreys should run buses from other rugby clubs / towns when I myself suggested this on the Ospreys forum I was told that there simply isnt the interest. I suggested running a bus from McArthur glen in Sarn, as people from Bridgend could park their cars in the car park then jump on the bus and go straight there.

I think Metal Tiger hit the nail on the head - it's the regionalisation. It'll take longer to establish the regions in such widespread geographical areas.

"Tigers do an extraordinary amount of community work, school visits, rugby workshops, local appearances etc in and around the city of Leicester. Close ties are forged with the local clubs through a lot of the activity above."

I know that the Ospreys and the Blues do the same things around their regions too. I'm sure the Scarlets and Dragons do as well.

Exactly Alyn, There is no interest. I posted earlier that MC cannot do anything else to promote the region to whats already been done. I'm on the O's facebook group and there's always news on what the club and players are doing in the region. Visits to schools, community initiatives. If Wales start dominating the 6N then maybe more will start to take interest in the players at club level. Maybe the O's winning the HC will draw more in? If the Swans stay in the prem or Cardiff join them, it'll get a lot worse imo. Maybe it is just plain apathy?

Apathy is what it is I think breadvan, and man is that annoying.

I know! I mean hats off to Leicester, you can see from the telly that every match seems a real family event ( and Leicester City regulary get 20k at home) and its still the same passionate atmosphere. Same too for Leinster, Munster, Glaws, Saints, Quinns. Only time will tell...

Quins have worked really hard on the marketing side recently. The "Big Games" around Christmas have been a big success.

Since they've come back up in 2006 their average attendance has gone from 11000 to 18000 (no double headers included).

AlynDavies wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:If a family budget is tight why not take a packed lunch rather than buying over-priced food and drinks at the ground? That would probably save the price of a ticket (and a damn sight healthier!).

Your not allowed to take anything into the ground my brother in law got aught taking a small bottle of coke in and was told to throw it in a bin or he wouldnt be allowed into the ground!

One other issue that keeps cropping up is people saying the Ospreys should run buses from other rugby clubs / towns when I myself suggested this on the Ospreys forum I was told that there simply isnt the interest. I suggested running a bus from McArthur glen in Sarn, as people from Bridgend could park their cars in the car park then jump on the bus and go straight there.

Alyn they ran a bus from Pencoed into Bridgend out to Laleston and then along to Pyle, Port Talbot to the ground, arriving aprox. half hour before game then leaving 30 minutes after, they did this for 3 seasons, they also ran buses from the Neath and Swansea valleys plus from outlying areas of Swansea the only bus that wasn't losing heavily money wise is the the Neath valley bus which is being run by the Supporters Club, as I said on an earlier post I used the Bridgend bus on a number of occasions, but very few people utilised this service

I am only an English vagrant but I do live in Swansea. I have friends who follow the Scarlets and there does seem to be much more of a buzz about them.

I know the old St Helen's ground is massively outdated - but it is right at the heart of things where as the Liberty just seems too far away. There is however obvious proof that the Ospreys are starting to work harder with the local community but how soon this pays off I have no idea. My son's school has had rugby coaching with Ospreys staff and just the other day they had a visit from 3 of the players. My son said that 'they had played 1st team rugby and everything'. He also said that when he asked who scored the most tries the 'irish one' said he did but that the other two did all the hard work and got the broken noses and stuff. Tommy Bowe was accompanied by Ian Gough and a new guy who is playing prop whose name escapes me.

I am only an English vagrant but I do live in Swansea.

You & me both! Agree with St Helens. I'd love for the old place to be redeveloped into a first class rugby stadium.

Breadvan, I have to spend visit Swansea for work next week. Are there any Ospreys museums etc?

Lol. You taking the p ? Closest thing to that stag is the club shop at the Liberty! The Waterfront Museum has a small rugby exhibtion but nothing special. Going to make the game on Saturday?


Ospreys museums.......thats a good one

No Ill be there midweek. We have a Munster museum thought you might have had something Osprey related. So whats.good in Swansea

Museum? Do you mean mausoleum?

I have been to see the Ospreys play a 9-9 draw which was low on quality. I paid £18 student! and my mate paid £28 adult! The previous time we'd been was a similar story and now we will not go again. If they come to Bridgend I imagine we'll feel different of course. Still, those prices are terrible as is some of the Ospreys rugby.

All depends. There's Wind (pronounced wine) street if you like the lash, the usual shopping and chain resturants in the city centre. Waterfront Museum and SA1 for a bit of culture. If you've a hire car then I'd explore Mumbles and the Gower peninsula.

Its a real shame. I think most Welsh rugby supporters just dont buy into the regional thing and the lack of atmosphere is a real turn off as well. I think winning the Heineken cup would definitely do it, but you cant rely on those sorts of things. The Ospreys marketing team should take a leaf out of Leinster's book, they regularly fill out the 20,000 RDS. A piece on Leinster's growing support base. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbDAJ5-mGxE&feature=related

Wind.St it is

I've posted something similar to this on the other regional attendance thread... so apologies if you have already seen this...

The WRU got it wrong when they created the regions. They should have followed the Irish example... Leinster is called Leinster because it is in the region of Leinster... a natural connection and makes sense... yes?

Now imagine if England went regional. Let's take 'The Midlands' (Birmingham, Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Northampton) and call it the Northampton Galacticos.

As a Leicester Tigers fan do you think I am going to support that? Am I feck!!

Now call it the Mercia Vikings.... all were in the old kingdoms of mercia and the danelaw (that's the viking bit) and it may just work... because we all were a part of those kingdoms, there is a natural & historical connection.

You had ready made provinces in Wales with the old kingdoms of Gwynned (north wales), Deheubarth (west wales), Powys (East Wales) and Brycheiniog, Morgan & Gwent (South Wales)... bit of a mouthful I grant you but I'm sure they could have come up with something shorter MorGwenBry (?)

Instead we got Cardiff, Newport, Llanelli, Swansea etc.

Immediately you have created alienation from the other areas in the region because you named the region after a place in the region... instead of naming it after the region. If that makes sense?

It does make sense MT, but we don't have the ready made provinces like Ireland do.

We made a big mistake in keeping the town/city names when the regions were first set up, and all four paid a price for it.

I will say though that Llanelli has always been a region (the only big club even remotely near West and some of North Wales), but they should have embraced the concept of the Scarlets officially representing more then just Llanelli a lot sooner. They've only really started working on it properly int he last couple of seasons.

The fake regions are killing the game in Wales. Either bring back a reformed club system or create real provinces that appeal to eveyone not just Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli and Newport

The Scarlets do appeal to those outside of Llanelli though Jimmy, and they always have

red_stag wrote:Breadvan, I have to spend visit Swansea for work next week. Are there any Ospreys museums etc?

There is a lovely display of very, very old rugby history in the St Helens rugby ground some of the exibits going from the late 1800's!
There is also an exibition within the Scarlets club shop, with some old trophies and programs from the older era. There is nothing in the Liberty stadium as the Ospreys are simply tenants there and share with Swansea city fc. Though there is a display of old jerseys over the riverside bar.

Jimmy Moz wrote:The fake regions are killing the game in Wales. Either bring back a reformed club system or create real provinces that appeal to eveyone not just Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli and Newport