Saracens one step closer to getting own stadium and other stadium developments

Everything seems to be starting to click for Saracens.

English champions.
2nd in the AP halfway through the season.
Only English side left in the HC.
6 players in the England 22 vs Scotland as well as 1 starter for Wales (would have had the Scottish captain too if not for injury). As well as those in the Saxons and U20s.


Last night it was announced that Barnet Council had approved Saracens plans for a new stadium.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16870781

This is a real step forward for Saracens in their goal to become a sustainable and successful club off the field as well as on it.

The only things that can stop the plans now are a judicial review and Boris Johnson/the secretary. Fingers crossed but hopefully it will be approved.

Something special is happening at Saracens.

What's happening with other developments in the world of rugby?

Is this a good location for Saracens fans? It'll certainly be good to have your own stadium. 10000 is quite small but quite probably realistic. If you keep getting games at Wembley it'll become your home away from home which'll be nice.

The stadium plans seem to have been modified to please the locals so can't see any justifiable reason to stop it.

Good news for Sarries, good news for the AP, Bath next for new stadium announcement peeeerleeeeease?

HammerofThunor wrote:Is this a good location for Saracens fans? It'll certainly be good to have your own stadium. 10000 is quite small but quite probably realistic. If you keep getting games at Wembley it'll become your home away from home which'll be nice.

The stadium plans seem to have been modified to please the locals so can't see any justifiable reason to stop it.

Excellent location. Great catchment area. Back in London just about. Won't alienate most current fans. Having own rugby stadium is huge. Being a proper London club again would be good commercially and from a branding point of view. I really want London Wasps and London Irish to follow suit.

PJholybloke when do you expect to hear news?

You need to sort out that stadium and get attendances up. Having less than Bristol is embarassing for the Aviva champions.

Bathite I am not worried as Saracens are making huge strides.How are Bath's stadium plans going?

I would be, how can the best side in the league have less fans than Bristol? Crazy. That's not a sustainable business model, so if the owner pulled out or results went downhill, it could be a slippery slope. Wasps anyone? What are these huge strides then? Do you mean with a new stadium?

Who knows with Bath situation to be honest, it's very complicated with too many stakeholder groups involved, with it being a World heritage city and all that. But if anyone was to get it sorted, it would be Bruce Craig. Without boring you with the details, big steps have been taken to speed it all up.

Less fans than Bristol? Don't make laugh. That's a load of rubbish.

Saracens got 20,000 fans to the two AP finals each game. 40k+ people go to every game at Wembley. Yes Saracens struggle at VR but that's because it's VR. Wembley game against Quins looks to be filling up very nicely.

Huge strides in the sense - 5 players starting for England vs Scotland. Only English side left in the HC. English Champions. New stadium looking assured etc.

Big steps have been taken to speed it up? Won't make any difference. These planning things take an awful lot of time.

Would rather be in Saracens' shoes than Bath's currently.

Wembley games are one off's i'm talking about over the course of the season, week in, week out. And Bristol have a higher attendance at home in the championship than you do as champions and members of the Heineken Cup, so yes, that's embarassing.

These planning things take a lot of time, yes quite, don't need to tell a Bath fan that, been waiting for a stadium for nearly 10 years now.

Oh and would Hodsgon, Botha, Farrell and Barritt start in a full strength England team? Kelly Brown would of course and Rhys Gill played well yesterday, but not sure having 5 starters is an indication of progress, if at least 2 of them won't start consistently

What attendance figures do you think Bristol get?
From what I found they averaged at around 5,500 Saracens get more than that in

After speaking to Bristol fans all weekend. To be honest it really surprised me, knew Sarries home attendance was poor, didn't realise it was that bad and knew Bristol's would be good, especially as they are top and with City and Rovers doing so badly in their leagues.

But Bristol do not get higher attendances than Saracens which is around 7,000 when you don't count the Wembley games which is not great but I reckon having a stadium that does not resemble down town Chernobyl in many ways (the way building has stopped half way through) might improve attendances

Wembley isn't an one off though. Saracens keep going there.

Well actually you're wrong because Saracens include Twickenham.

Embarrassing for whom? If the snobbier clubs want to sneer at us for our relatively small attendances that's fine. It won't stop Saracens' progress.

I am sick of hearing the jealous excuses from clubs who don't look at their own flaws.

Bath need to sort out their club form. Bath are an underachieving club currently. Don't keep it that way.

Bath have a stadium.

Losing to the champions isn't embarrassing fella, not at all!

We gave you a good game at the Rec as well. only the post / crossbar on the final whistle was the difference.

Try not to get too worked up, didn't realise it was such a sore subject. As I said, didn't realise they were that low and was conversely surprised by how good Bristol's are!

Fair enough Bathite. You must be frustrated by the underachieving side you have though. You have some excellent players and huge money behind you yet don't seem to click. I think you will eventually though. New coach needed perhaps?

True you should have beaten us at the Rec but that's what many teams say.

I know it's a cliche but there's a very fine line between winning and losing. Just look at Quins and Saracens - now turning narrow losses into wins.

Well every man and his dog knows the Saracens attendance are low. It's irrelevant. Saracens are working on their poor attendances.

Instead of sneering we should all work together. I want to see all English clubs do well in Europe and improve in regards to attendances and commercially.

Tell me what are Bath's plans? Are they looking for 15k stadium?

Bristol might have a good attendances for a championship club but compared to Saracen's their brand worth is tiny. Saracens for good and bad have been in the papers an awful lot in the last two and a half seasons!

Saracens are a team on the up. Maybe the wheels will fall off but not yet.

Yeah I'm a little frustrated and i think it's down to the coach, think we talked about this before. Had a cracking month though and Donald now looks settled, but think we will suffer if Attwood gets the call up that many are mooting for. He gives us so much go to in the pack, big ball carrier for us.

Didn't know about the attendance tbh, won't mention it again, but it's certainly not irrelevant. I always thought Irish's were the worst, except Sale and Newc obviously. Just get's a bit repetitive hearing you go on and on about how great Sarries are!

The Bath stadium issue is complex, but the best plan is for a 25k seater stadium on the existing site, with a built in leisure centre to replace the old one, along with a new clubhouse, restaurants and a hotel. We obv won't fill 25k each week, but would do 20k most of the time, with the extra 5k for big games and/or HC games,

It's all about building momentum. Let's be honest Bath haven't had difficult games recently but notching up good wins to build confidence is decent. You have now got to make the most of your next games. Go for the try bonus against Newcastle.

Very ambitious Bathite. Good luck with that. Who would fork out the cash? Bruce Craig? A 25k stadium would surely cost £50m+

The 10k seater for Copthall stadium is £20m.

Momentum indeed, hence why the LV run is good news, even though against 2nd teams.

Not sure on costs mate to be honest, but the whole point of having the leisure centre restaurants and hotels incorporated is to increase the revenue and therefore reduce the payback period and increase the ROI. Bruce will pay most of that I guess, but a developer pays for the hotel and the council contributes towards the whole thing, especially the leisure centre.

Don't forget that we already have the site in place, so much of the expensive is saved there. Redevelopment will always be cheaper than a new build, as you will need civil engineering works on the ground and playing surface, along with the infrastructure from scratch, like cabling, piping, access, car parks etc.

I'm not sure 25k is neccesssary, but I guess if you can get 20k, it can't cost significantly more for an extra 5k seats? Would be much cheaper then developing again a few years later, as well as factoring in the potential lost income from those 5k seats, that would be unsold. Always better to have space for extra seats for Newcastle at home, rather than complete sell outs, months in advance for members only of the big games, so that fans don't get to see the big games. Also means that tourists can just 'pop along' to a game if they fancy it.

It would be good to understand the Sarries business plan. 10k capacity, including uncovered areas, doesn't seem enough to cover their costs. Even then, to fill it they have to play more attractive rugby.

The location isn't great for central London. I live in Islington and according to journey planner I can get to The Stoop in the same amount of time. I guess they think their fans live to the north, but you can't really drive to the ground so how will they get there?

Having said all that - it's good to see rugby teams in dedicated stadiums so well done Sarries.

DaveM I understand what you are saying but I think it will work for Saracens.

Saracens' catchment area is large. They can potentially attract fans from Hertfordshire,Essex,North London, even Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire.


The bulk of the current Saracens support though not big shouldn't be too inconvenienced by the move as they are hardly moving far.

The target was never Central London. Wasps should be the club to tap into central London. We have discussed this issue in the past. It would be highly ideal for all involved if Wasps positioned themselves halfway between Saracens (new stadium if allowed) and Quins.

Think about the commercial possibilities. Saracens will be a true London club again with it's only rugby stadium. Catering for North London and the local counties.

Just seen Wray on ESPN before the Wasps game and he's said the ground will be 100% artificial, which means it can get more use.

I was watching the super league highlights the other day and Widnes have a similar pitch. There have been some complaints that it very abrasive and a lot of the players are rubbing their elbows/forearms and knee/legs raw when sliding in for scores, etc. Just something to be aware of.