Alvarez calls out Mayweather

http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/27/2589111/alvarez-vs-cintron-results-canelo-stops-kermit-calls-out-floyd-mayweather-jr-hbo-boxing

Very interesting indeed. Not sure what weight this would be at if Floyd would go up to 154 (which I don't feel he is as good at) or if it'll be at a catchweight. I can't see Saul coming down as he is quite big at the weight already.

Personally I think Floyd dances to a UD by 3-4 rounds. I rate Saul very very highly in terms of potential but I think this would be a step too far at this stage in his career.

Do you feel there is a genuine chance of the fight happening? Financially it has the potential to be the biggest ever (apart from Floyd v Manny) as Floyd is the biggest pay-per-view draw there is and Alvarez has a whole country supporting him. What do you guys think?

How do you think it would go lads if it were to happen?

Think you are being charitable to Alvarez there. 6 rounds UD minimum - a faded Cintron - then the p4p elite fighter? Much too big a step - inexperienced really - no true championship fights - but I reckon it would sell - the size difference would account for a couple of rounds. Alvarez looks the part.

I'm not sure it would happen though - Alvarez might be shouting out now - but its because Mayweather offers you 20% - its probably more than all your previous fights combined.

I don't see it happening. I can't see Mayweather boxing at 154lbs again and I don't see Alvarez making 147lbs he's huge.

Yeah i can't see this fight happening to be honest, too much for Alvarez at this stage i feel plus he still has a bit to go to earn it.

Alvarez hasn't fought anybody who is considered a good defensive fighter bar maybe rhodes, so putting him against the very best defensive fighter around will be a big mistake. Alvarez has decent speed, not enough to trouble mayweather imo. He doesn't move his head enough and mayweather will be able to catch him all night. Saul will create problems as he's big and very accurate and can out muscle floyd.

Alvarez is gradually picking up the opposition and is getting better with every fight. He can be the next big star imo. He needs to fight kirkland next as he have to put up a good defensive display to come away with the win.

The only way this fight is made is at 150lbs and i don't think saul can make it. Alvarez has a couple of years before he's anywhere near floyds level. I don't think anyone beats floyd or even comes close to it in all of the 140, 147 and 154 bar martinez purely because of his reach and equal speed

It would make so much money as he is huge compared to ortiz and that fight was huge numbers wise. there are plenty of fighters for saul for the next 3 years, cotto, marg, kirkland, martiroysan, lara, molina, trout and bundrage

yeah would be suprised if floyd walked up to 154 again. but if he did alvarez wouldnt have experienced enough top level guys to understand what to do against him

You say that but Victor Ortiz got a shot I don't think earning it is the problem. Size might be. You never know Floyd likes a Mexican opponent for Mexican Independence weekend.

too true kev the money is what drives floyd and him getting there when hes still a tad green wouldnt suprise me that much thinking about the amount of money it could generate

Bloody Hell - Gary speed has killed himself

Theres not a lot else out there. The 147lbs is very weak just now. Take Manny and Floyd out the equation and I don't remember the last time it lacked so much quality.

its mainly because floyd and manny are so elite in that division

But the rest aren't that good. Ortiz, Berto, Jones and Brook.

Did anybody notice how small the ring was last night?

jones and brook will be - berto and ortiz are good and khan and bradley will be there shortly

Khan and Bradley yes but Jones and Brook I'm not sure about. I don't think Jones is that good and I don't think Brook will reach his potential. I can see him blowing it like Nas did.

brook will be one of britains best ever

Really? I think Khan would comfortably beat Brook. Does pretty much everything better than Brook.

i actually fancy alvarez for the upset. he has the power, and providing he didn't have to drop to 147 would be much bigger than floyd, think he is future p4p fighter.

prettyboykev wrote:You say that but Victor Ortiz got a shot I don't think earning it is the problem. Size might be. You never know Floyd likes a Mexican opponent for Mexican Independence weekend.

Technically it was Floyd who got the shot, seen as Victor was champion.

DaveVDK wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You say that but Victor Ortiz got a shot I don't think earning it is the problem. Size might be. You never know Floyd likes a Mexican opponent for Mexican Independence weekend.

Technically it was Floyd who got the shot, seen as Victor was champion.

as if that means a thing nowadays... ortiz actually walked to the ring first that tells you everything

DaveVDK wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You say that but Victor Ortiz got a shot I don't think earning it is the problem. Size might be. You never know Floyd likes a Mexican opponent for Mexican Independence weekend.

Technically it was Floyd who got the shot, seen as Victor was champion.

True but titles mean nothing in modern boxing. Berto ditched his for a rematch with Ortiz.

Brook seems to get hyped up a lot but his level of opposition has been so poor it's difficult to really judge him, will probably become a belt holder at some stage but there are better fighters in and around his division.

i think brook is very special

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Brook seems to get hyped up a lot but his level of opposition has been so poor it's difficult to really judge him, will probably become a belt holder at some stage but there are better fighters in and around his division.

The general state of Welter is fairly poor - I think he is 7th - but I think stiffer tests lie ahead if he carries on fighting the ranked opponents - so we can observe with interest his progress. Think he has something about him though -although hearn is getting a little carried away with the superstar comments.

I think its increasingly common nowdays to see fights dismissed off hand for thinking that falls more in line with a promoters mentality than a fans.

Personally I dont really see a good reason to dismiss a potential Alvarez v Mayweather fight at light middleweight. Mayweather would of course be a big step up in quality for Alvarez but he seems to be a genuinely talented fighter as the game goes today and the weight advantage he would hold I think goes some way to even the score. Naturally its easy to assume that Alvarez will be better in 3 or 4 years but is this really a good reason to dismiss a clash with Mayweather? Or the fact Mayweather would be favourite is grounds for it to be rendered obsolete?

I dont think it is and it seems with the top fighters now that virutally any potential opponent is dismissed rather easily uner this kind of reasoning. "Mayweather would win comfortably", "Too big a step up", "Not in Mayweathers class", "Hasnt earned it", "Hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers class". I see these kind of comments made frequently but if they were all held to be justifiable reasons then Mayweather would never end up fighting anyone. I dont see the problem with putting a guy like Alvarez in with Mayweather and win, lose or draw I dont think it makes the fight any less valid or harms Alvarez.

Throughout boxing history there have been ample cases of fighters being matched tough early but nowadays it seems that many fans think from a promoters perspective and how a fighter should be protected, padded and so on which i dont understand. Would people rather Alvarez coasted along another 2 years fighting guys like Cintron? Or would they not be more interested to see how he fares against Mayweather? I would certainly rather the latter and dont think the risk of a loss is reasonable justification for the fight not to happen from a fans perspective.

fact is there are a couple of others i would rather see mayweather take on. i think alvarez will lose - not against the fight but would rather see him take on the winner of marg/cotto

Colonial Lion wrote:I think its increasingly common nowdays to see fights dismissed off hand for thinking that falls more in line with a promoters mentality than a fans.

Personally I dont really see a good reason to dismiss a potential Alvarez v Mayweather fight at light middleweight. Mayweather would of course be a big step up in quality for Alvarez but he seems to be a genuinely talented fighter as the game goes today and the weight advantage he would hold I think goes some way to even the score. Naturally its easy to assume that Alvarez will be better in 3 or 4 years but is this really a good reason to dismiss a clash with Mayweather? Or the fact Mayweather would be favourite is grounds for it to be rendered obsolete?

I dont think it is and it seems with the top fighters now that virutally any potential opponent is dismissed rather easily uner this kind of reasoning. "Mayweather would win comfortably", "Too big a step up", "Not in Mayweathers class", "Hasnt earned it", "Hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers class". I see these kind of comments made frequently but if they were all held to be justifiable reasons then Mayweather would never end up fighting anyone. I dont see the problem with putting a guy like Alvarez in with Mayweather and win, lose or draw I dont think it makes the fight any less valid or harms Alvarez.

Throughout boxing history there have been ample cases of fighters being matched tough early but nowadays it seems that many fans think from a promoters perspective and how a fighter should be protected, padded and so on which i dont understand. Would people rather Alvarez coasted along another 2 years fighting guys like Cintron? Or would they not be more interested to see how he fares against Mayweather? I would certainly rather the latter and dont think the risk of a loss is reasonable justification for the fight not to happen from a fans perspective.

Colonial I agree with everything you said. My point wasn't dismissing Alvarez for not being good enough or being undeserving of a crack at Floyd. Victor Ortiz got one so by that standard he warrants a shot.

I don't think it will happen because I don't see Floyd stepping up to 154lbs to take on a big strong 21 year old who would have a massive weight advantage on the night.

prettyboykev wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:I think its increasingly common nowdays to see fights dismissed off hand for thinking that falls more in line with a promoters mentality than a fans.

Personally I dont really see a good reason to dismiss a potential Alvarez v Mayweather fight at light middleweight. Mayweather would of course be a big step up in quality for Alvarez but he seems to be a genuinely talented fighter as the game goes today and the weight advantage he would hold I think goes some way to even the score. Naturally its easy to assume that Alvarez will be better in 3 or 4 years but is this really a good reason to dismiss a clash with Mayweather? Or the fact Mayweather would be favourite is grounds for it to be rendered obsolete?

I dont think it is and it seems with the top fighters now that virutally any potential opponent is dismissed rather easily uner this kind of reasoning. "Mayweather would win comfortably", "Too big a step up", "Not in Mayweathers class", "Hasnt earned it", "Hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers class". I see these kind of comments made frequently but if they were all held to be justifiable reasons then Mayweather would never end up fighting anyone. I dont see the problem with putting a guy like Alvarez in with Mayweather and win, lose or draw I dont think it makes the fight any less valid or harms Alvarez.

Throughout boxing history there have been ample cases of fighters being matched tough early but nowadays it seems that many fans think from a promoters perspective and how a fighter should be protected, padded and so on which i dont understand. Would people rather Alvarez coasted along another 2 years fighting guys like Cintron? Or would they not be more interested to see how he fares against Mayweather? I would certainly rather the latter and dont think the risk of a loss is reasonable justification for the fight not to happen from a fans perspective.

Colonial I agree with everything you said. My point wasn't dismissing Alvarez for not being good enough or being undeserving of a crack at Floyd. Victor Ortiz got one so by that standard he warrants a shot.

I don't think it will happen because I don't see Floyd stepping up to 154lbs to take on a big strong 21 year old who would have a massive weight advantage on the night.

I wasnt directing my comments at anyone in particular prettyboykev, just more of a general kind of mindset I have noticed more amongst boxing fans nowadays. There seems to be an increasing tendancy to think as a promoter or manager might think, rather than think as fans. In many cases fans want the best fights but are all too willing to accept the managers agenda in regards to protecting fighters or taking risks. It seems that losing or stepping has become more of a rarity because fans have bought into the idea that losses are so damaging. We need to remember its the fans and not the promters who should be deciding how damaging a loss is and not the other way around!

Colonial Lion wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:I think its increasingly common nowdays to see fights dismissed off hand for thinking that falls more in line with a promoters mentality than a fans.

Personally I dont really see a good reason to dismiss a potential Alvarez v Mayweather fight at light middleweight. Mayweather would of course be a big step up in quality for Alvarez but he seems to be a genuinely talented fighter as the game goes today and the weight advantage he would hold I think goes some way to even the score. Naturally its easy to assume that Alvarez will be better in 3 or 4 years but is this really a good reason to dismiss a clash with Mayweather? Or the fact Mayweather would be favourite is grounds for it to be rendered obsolete?

I dont think it is and it seems with the top fighters now that virutally any potential opponent is dismissed rather easily uner this kind of reasoning. "Mayweather would win comfortably", "Too big a step up", "Not in Mayweathers class", "Hasnt earned it", "Hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers class". I see these kind of comments made frequently but if they were all held to be justifiable reasons then Mayweather would never end up fighting anyone. I dont see the problem with putting a guy like Alvarez in with Mayweather and win, lose or draw I dont think it makes the fight any less valid or harms Alvarez.

Throughout boxing history there have been ample cases of fighters being matched tough early but nowadays it seems that many fans think from a promoters perspective and how a fighter should be protected, padded and so on which i dont understand. Would people rather Alvarez coasted along another 2 years fighting guys like Cintron? Or would they not be more interested to see how he fares against Mayweather? I would certainly rather the latter and dont think the risk of a loss is reasonable justification for the fight not to happen from a fans perspective.

Colonial I agree with everything you said. My point wasn't dismissing Alvarez for not being good enough or being undeserving of a crack at Floyd. Victor Ortiz got one so by that standard he warrants a shot.

I don't think it will happen because I don't see Floyd stepping up to 154lbs to take on a big strong 21 year old who would have a massive weight advantage on the night.

I wasnt directing my comments at anyone in particular prettyboykev, just more of a general kind of mindset I have noticed more amongst boxing fans nowadays. There seems to be an increasing tendancy to think as a promoter or manager might think, rather than think as fans. In many cases fans want the best fights but are all too willing to accept the managers agenda in regards to protecting fighters or taking risks. It seems that losing or stepping has become more of a rarity because fans have bought into the idea that losses are so damaging. We need to remember its the fans and not the promters who should be deciding how damaging a loss is and not the other way around!

I am very guilty of thinking from a fighters/managers/promoters perspective. But in modern boxing I can't help myself. There are dream fights then there are realistic fights. I sound like Bob Arum!

I think the mentality that a loss is very damaging is becoming an issue for fighters now more than ever. Look at the guy Ricky Burns beat for the superfeatherweight strap he held Roman Martinez. After losing to Burns he took more than a year out to assess his future? The guy was 24-1-1! We have became a culture who dismisses fighters after a loss. It's also partly due to fighters being nowhere near active enough now. 3-4 fights a year is good going for a fighter now. That was 2 months work in the old days.

It seems I'm in somewhat of a minority here; I see this fight as a very realistic prospect in 2012 if a certain other fight doesn't come to pass. Like Colonial, I almost find it a little worrying that so many are writing it off for such a variety of reasons - if we all took that stance, we'd be down to a few fights per year across the globe!

Does it sell? Yes, and it sells big. Not a bad way to get the ball rolling when it comes to negotiating with Mayweather. Let's also keep in mind that Mayweather was willing to (apparently) give away well over 10 lb to De la Hoya on fight night back in 2007 for their Light-Middleweight clash. The Mayweather of 2009-present day certainly seems a damn sight more robust and forceful as a Welterweight come fight night than he did a few years back - many seem to think that being a few lb lighter on fight night will put Mayweather off, but I'm not so sure given the aforementioned evidence.

If Mayweather-Pacquiao can't be made, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mayweather-Alvarez in May 2012 as the substitute, and for me it would be the best substitute available along with Mayweather-Khan. I think even Mayweather's harshest critics would be hard pressed to find a way to degrade Alvarez's credibility as an opponent.

Not saying he isn't a credible opponent but it is a fight I really just can't see how he wions without having a bit more experience. I would be more than happy with the fight, but I can only see it going one way, and that's a look of confusion on Alvarez's face at the end wondering what the hell just happened.

It's a fantastic matchup, however I would be much more happy seeing Mayweather - Pac, Khan - Mayweather or Mayweather - Martinez (LMW) rather than this, in truth.

It's a definite possibility, Floyd always takes the money option, and Alvarez sells, and big at that, the whole of Mexico is far more behind him than they were even Marquez. Problem is it's a guy going from beating Rhodes a couple of fights ago to Mayweather and I just can't for the life of me see him winning.

Chris the big difference between Alvarez and the De La Hoya situation is Oscar was past it Alvarez isn't and Oscar was a cash cow. I would be very surprised to see Floyd in with someone so big given how quickly he dismissed the idea of fighting Martinez. I would like to see it but I'm not convinced. Floyd said he was never really that comfortable at 154lbs he walks around at 150lbs.

Personally I would rather see Khan get a fight with Floyd I think he is more deserving.

prettyboykev wrote:Chris the big difference between Alvarez and the De La Hoya situation is Oscar was past it Alvarez isn't and Oscar was a cash cow. I would be very surprised to see Floyd in with someone so big given how quickly he dismissed the idea of fighting Martinez. I would like to see it but I'm not convinced. Floyd said he was never really that comfortable at 154lbs he walks around at 150lbs.

Personally I would rather see Khan get a fight with Floyd I think he is more deserving.

Well, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to rival De la Hoya when it comes to generating revenue and interest - don't think it's fair on Alvarez to question his right to fight Mayweather on that basis. Alvarez, in his own right, is a big name with an even bigger following who offers a large lucrative incentive - certainly bigger than anyone else out there aside from Pacquiao (I'd say Khan is perhaps on an equal footing though, in fairness).

Moreover, past his peak though he was, do you think the 2007 version of De la Hoya was a lesser fighter than a twenty-one year old, still-developing Alvarez is? Again, I think that's very questionable.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think we should maybe be giving Mayweather a little more credit when it comes to taking on tough challengers. He certainly has it in him to beat Alvarez, I'm sure we'd all agree, and has fought when the cards have (to a degree) been stacked in his opponent's favour before. Mind you, as we've both already alluded to, wouldn't mind seeing Mayweather-Khan at all, either. Just feel that Alzarez, for a number of reasons, would be just as good a choice.

Alvarez probably sells better in terms of PPV to be honest... So easy for Floyd against a Mexican, they already hate him.

Bit harsh on Alvarez to say he has no chance against Mayweather, his sheer size alone coupled with his skill gives him a chance.

88Chris05 wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Chris the big difference between Alvarez and the De La Hoya situation is Oscar was past it Alvarez isn't and Oscar was a cash cow. I would be very surprised to see Floyd in with someone so big given how quickly he dismissed the idea of fighting Martinez. I would like to see it but I'm not convinced. Floyd said he was never really that comfortable at 154lbs he walks around at 150lbs.

Personally I would rather see Khan get a fight with Floyd I think he is more deserving.

Well, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to rival De la Hoya when it comes to generating revenue and interest - don't think it's fair on Alvarez to question his right to fight Mayweather on that basis. Alvarez, in his own right, is a big name with an even bigger following who offers a large lucrative incentive - certainly bigger than anyone else out there aside from Pacquiao (I'd say Khan is perhaps on an equal footing though, in fairness).

Moreover, past his peak though he was, do you think the 2007 version of De la Hoya was a lesser fighter than a twenty-one year old, still-developing Alvarez is? Again, I think that's very questionable.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think we should maybe be giving Mayweather a little more credit when it comes to taking on tough challengers. He certainly has it in him to beat Alvarez, I'm sure we'd all agree, and has fought when the cards have (to a degree) been stacked in his opponent's favour before. Mind you, as we've both already alluded to, wouldn't mind seeing Mayweather-Khan at all, either. Just feel that Alzarez, for a number of reasons, would be just as good a choice.

Chris I think you misunderstood me. I'm not questioning his right to fight Mayweather. Take Pac out the equation and no one with the exception of Khan due to his higher standard of wins (Maidana and Judah) are more deserving of the fight with Floyd than the Mexiacan but the Mexican is a bigger draw so it makes more sense.

The 2007 version of Oscar wasn't great but I must admit to never being a huge fan of the Golden Boy. I would pick this version of Alvarez to beat him but it would be close and that's just personal preference.

Alvarez would be a great test of Floyd his size and power would really test just how good Floyds speed and movement still is because he hasn't been tested in a while.

I just think he will end up being beaten to the punch and hasn't had enough top level experience against a good defensive fighter.

I agree with those that say it won't happen...All wrong for Floyd this guy at this stage of his career....

God knows what Alvarez weighs at fight time...No Floyd should take on those his own size now......

Manny or Khan......won't happen this fight.

Truss I think theirs a better chance of this happening than Floyd vs Manny and I don't think this will happen.

I expect Floyd and Manny to happen next summer Mate.....I doubt Marquez-Manny will fight again....however.

If it's up to Bob Arum it won't happen. Alex Ariza said as much I'll find the article I read for you. Arum would love Manny vs JMM 4 he gets all the money.

Apparently Manny is the proud owner of a vagina and can't tell Arum who he wants to fight.

Bar manny-mayweather though this is the big money fight and mayweather is all about the money. Although khan is mixing with top level opposition, he still doesn't attract the mainstream attention canelo does. He is huge, the mexicans absolutely adore him, he always fills out venues, he is the best 21 year old out there atm, americans have followed him for years (khan has only really got a lot of attention after the judah fight) and we follow him after disposing of rhodes who we all rated quite highly.

if the fight can be done at 150 lbs mayweather will jump at it. We are forgetting that ortiz weighed around 162-165 lbs vs mayweather, oscar was about 160(+) and mosley weighed 158-162. I don't think alvarez will be able to come in over 165 as rehydrating over a stone is suicide. Mayweather has grown into a proper welter now and looked big enough vs ortiz. 154lbs is too far as saul can weigh as much as 170.

Which fighter in or around 140-154lbs has faced a top level defensive fighter other than Pacquiao against Marquez? No one, the only way for Alvarez to develop is to test himself rather than fighting guys he knows he's going to beat, he would probably learn more in a loss to Mayweather than any other fight.

He wouldn't lose to Floyd...he'd be around 168 on fight night....You can tell by looking at him he's big at his weight.....

Let him pick on people his own size.

Think team Mayweather should be doing there upmost to get this guy signed up, it's a lucrative match against an opponent he'd receive kudos from media and fans, think Mayweather would win every second against him too easy to hit and he looked winded to me after 4 rounds last night, still maintain only guy who can beat Mayweather south of light middle is Pacquaio.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Which fighter in or around 140-154lbs has faced a top level defensive fighter other than Pacquiao against Marquez? No one, the only way for Alvarez to develop is to test himself rather than fighting guys he knows he's going to beat, he would probably learn more in a loss to Mayweather than any other fight.

Yea true but being undefeated means a lot more these days, a prospect can really be set back. All of think that mayweather will make him miss and get caught all night to a UD. I don't think that will help him much. Everyone will rip him, saying he's overrated hyped etc and being young it can hit him harder than an older foe. A confident fighter with momentum is dangerous. He risks being called a bum. It may take many years for him to get back to being a top ranked fighter.

I also think that alvarez doesn't need mayweather. He is learning the ropes and is making a lot of money for a 21 year old. There is no need to rush him. Although a win would be great for his legacy, the chances of a win is very unlikely. No matter how big, young or strong you are, if you don't move your head you will be picked apart by floyd

Being beaten by Mayweather wouldn't make an ounce of difference to Alvarez reputation as it's a fight he would be expected to lose, the experience would be invaluable in his progression.

I agree with Colonial on this, there seems to be a trend for boxing fans not wanting to see the best fights, making excuses left right and center why it shouldn't happen. It's potentially the biggest challenge the pair have so we as fans should want to see it happen.

stylistically i think mayweather-Khan and Pacquiao-alvarez would make more sense (assuming floyd-manny isn't going to happen). Khan has the ability to fight from the outside with his long arms and should make it harder for mayweather, and khans speed should help him also although a UD for money would still be on most people's cards. Pacquiao is a lot of things, and one of them is he is there to be hit, marg cotto and marquez showed he is easy to tag. If alvarez can get into a war with manny he has a chance of stopping him.

Pacman-Alvarez is murder.....Manny has no defence and this guy punches like the natural super-middle he is..

May-Alvarez would be a better fight but still way too big this guy..

Alvarez is a different kettle of fish entirely to the versions of Cotto and Margarito that Pacquiao beat, he's bigger, stronger and punchers harder than the pair.

Anyone of Khan, Pacquiao, Alvarez or Martinez would be a good next fight for Mayweather, with the former being the most likely.